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[Ninja Scooter]

The shot looks funny but it's one of the smoothest shots ive seen going into the basket.

His court vision is phenomenal, especially in transition. He's one of those players who;'s able to think 2 steps ahead.

I've completely flipped on Ball. I uised to be just like you. But just watch those shots man. Looks at his ludicrous stats and efficiency.



Jackson shot 37% from 3 and 54% total. His FT% is terrible, but he's able to score the ball really well. Randle is a good scorer, Ingram should improve his shot, and Russel is a good shooter as well. That lineup would be nasty defensively as well.

Jackson's 3 point numbers were inflated by a hot streak towards the end of the year. His mechanics are awful and worrisome. If his shooting does not translate over, at least not right away, that gives your prospective lineup four guys (Jackson, Ingram, Randle, Zubax) with less than dependible range. That can cripple your offense. That's just as big of a question mark as a DLo/Ball/Randle lineup being awful defensively. If I'm the Lakers I'm not too worried about those kinds of things next year. Draft the guy you think is the best player, rather than drafting for lineups, because who knows who is going to be on the team in a year or two. Maybe they trade Randle, or maybe they don't like the Lonzo/Russ duo and trade DLo. I'm not a fan of terrible teams drafting for fit.

 

[Bread]

Ball has some of the best range in the draft. Dude basically is able to take a shot 5+ ft off of the college 3. That range opens up so much for players to drive the ball

So? It's not like he's Steph Curry out there making defenders dance with the threat to shoot from deep, he doesn't have the drive/pull up game.

I agree I just think those three guys are pretty similar in terms of ceiling, whereas Lonzo has a higher floor. His handle probably is what is is, but i disagree on his shot. He has a quick enough release that his wonky mechanics don't bother me. Shot selection is where he needs to improve, but maybe this is where playing off the ball and getting him open, clean catch and shoot looks might help. Compare that to Josh Jackson, whose mechanics are a mess. Lonzo's warts might prevent him from being a superstar, Jackson's and Fox's warts might make it hard for them to stay on the floor.

Eh, I'm not sure if they're similar ceiling wise. Jackson and Fox both have the same issue and it's the only thing keeping them from being superstar prospects. For every Kawhi and Avery Bradley there's an MKG and Rubio. Lakers should take Ball, but I am really really not sold on him.

 

[Jarmel]

So, I've spent about 45mins going thru the play by plays of the last 2 finals + this year and compiled some data. The parameters are, Curry FGs when the score is within 10, regardless of time left in the game. This a great deal more lenient than the typical clutch rules of 5mins left with 5pt margins. To get this is pretty simple, go to the ESPN play by play pages, expand all the quarters and Ctrl-F "Curry makes" for the makes and "Curry miss" for the misses. Then you just look to the right to see if the margin is correct. I threw this into excel then got the averages. I can upload the data points in a google docs so you all can pick thru if you want.

Curry in the Finals, score within 10:

2015 Curry made 47/103 FGs for 46% from the field
2016 Curry made 37/92 FGs for 40% from the field.
2017 so far? 9/24 FGs for 38% from the field.

These are not good clutch numbers outside of 2015. IMO Finals Curry is a real thing but alas they will likely win anyway so this will all be swept under the rug.

Any timeframe in the game? Wouldn't that include first quarter shit?

 

[Bread]

Real clutch shooting happens when the game is tied 2-2 with 11 minutes left in the 1st quarter.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

wiggins costs like 18 million less than love, they could probably buy a few more dudes

The cavs are presently about $30 million over the soft cap, so no, they couldn't.

 

[Jarate]

Jackson's 3 point numbers were inflated by a hot streak towards the end of the year. His mechanics are awful and worrisome. If his shooting does not translate over, at least not right away, that gives your prospective lineup four guys (Jackson, Ingram, Randle, Zubax) with less than dependible range. That can cripple your offense. That's just as big of a question mark as a DLo/Ball/Randle lineup being awful defensively. If I'm the Lakers I'm not too worried about those kinds of things next year. Draft the guy you think is the best player, rather than drafting for lineups, because who knows who is going to be on the team in a year or two. Maybe they trade Randle, or maybe they don't like the Lonzo/Russ duo and trade DLo. I'm not a fan of terrible teams drafting for fit.

I think Jackson and Ball are in the same tier of prospects. Jackson has SS potential written all over him, and is super mature.

Tier 1
Fultz

Tier 2
Ball & Jackson

Tier 3
Dennis Smith Jr, De'Aaron Fox, Jonathan Isaac

Tier 4
Jayson Tatum, Frank Ntilikina, Malik Monk, Donovan Mitchel

Tier 5
Lauri Markannen, Zach Collins

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So? It's not like he's Steph Curry out there making defenders dance with the threat to shoot from deep, he doesn't have the drive/pull up game.

Eh, I'm not sure if they're similar ceiling wise. Jackson and Fox both have the same issue and it's the only thing keeping them from being superstar prospects. For every Kawhi and Avery Bradley there's an MKG and Rubio. Lakers should take Ball, but I am really really not sold on him.

I'm def not trying to shit on those guys I really like Fox and Jackson and would be happy if LA got any of those three to be honest. I just put them all in similar tiers. I just feel like Ball is more scrutinized (for obvious reasons, he's had a much higher profile) and his flaws are more visible.

 

[Trey]

I like fox much better than lonzo. Mostly because he's an athletic freak and lonzo shooting form is butt ugly.

 

[TTG]

What can they get for a number 2 pick then? And can they offload some of the disaster from last year's free agency?

 

[PadWarrior]

Lol this tweet


Eric Pincus @EricPincus

Reminder, I have the Cavs up 14 in third quarter tonight - not sure they win the game but I do expect it be 2-1 despite the 1st 2 blowouts
2:19 PM · Jun 7, 2017

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I like fox much better than lonzo. Mostly because he's an athletic freak and lonzo shooting form is butt ugly.

It may be ugly but it goes in at a decent clip, which is more than you can say for Fox.

 

[Bread]

I'm def not trying to shit on those guys I really like Fox and Jackson and would be happy if LA got any of those three to be honest. I just put them all in similar tiers. I just feel like Ball is more scrutinized (for obvious reasons, he's had a much higher profile) and his flaws are more visible.

I think he has more flaws so there's a lower chance of him reaching the heights that Fox or Jackson reach if they just learn to shoot consistently. They've both shown that they can string together a few months of above average shooting, the pre-draft workouts should be really telling.

 

[rambis]

Any timeframe in the game? Wouldn't that include first quarter shit?

Yeah. My claim was that Curry has shrunk when the game is closer so time of the game wouldn't matter. Only the score.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think he has more flaws so there's a lower chance of him reaching the heights that Fox or Jackson reach if they just learn to shoot consistently. They've both shown that they can string together a few months of above average shooting, the pre-draft workouts should be really telling.

You also have to hope that Josh Jackson doesn't go around threatening women or vandalizing cars once he turns pro.

 

[Bread]

You also have to hope that Josh Jackson doesn't go around threatening women or vandalizing cars once he turns pro.

And hope that Fox doesn't retweet some hentai

 

[rambis]

[IMGs://cdn.meme.am/images/400x/15956180.jpg[/IMG]

Eh say what you want but it was actually a fun exercise while work is painfully slow.

 

[CopperPuppy]

Yeah. My claim was that Curry has shrunk when the game is closer so time of the game wouldn't matter. Only the score.

Right. Can't stand the pressure of a 10-10 tie halfway through the first quarter.

Come on, man. This is some weird shit to go on about.

And hope that Fox doesn't retweet some hentai

LOL. Tell me this happened.

 

[FZZ]

.

 

[Trey]

It may be ugly but it goes in at a decent clip, which is more than you can say for Fox.

It's the sort of form that will become unreliable in the NBA, and very difficult to unlearn. Whereas fox natural shooting motion can be tweaked by shooting coaches to allow him better accuracy.

Of course I can be absolutely wrong, but that's where my head is at.

 

[Nafai1123]

Rambis you writing your doctorate thesis on choke threshold analysis in relation to value irrationality versus over-achievement in order to determine retrograde saltification imbalance?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It's the sort of form that will become unreliable in the NBA, and very difficult to unlearn. Whereas fox natural shooting motion can be tweaked by shooting coaches to allow him better accuracy.

Of course I can be absolutely wrong, but that's where my head is at.

What makes it unreliable if he gets the shot off quickly? I think he'll be fine off the ball shooting off catches, which in my opinion is more important than ISO three point pull ups.

 

[Bread]

What makes it unreliable if he gets the shot off quickly? I think he'll be fine off the ball shooting off catches, which in my opinion is more important than ISO three point pull ups.

I feel like the pros of his quick release are negated by the low release point. He should be fine if he's being guarded by smaller guys but I could also see SGs or PGs with long wingspans giving him a ton of trouble.

 

[mjp2417]

Is Curry's current trajectory, barring injury, the #2 PG of all time? This is a sentiment I've read from both journalists and fans recently.

It's definitely possible. Magic is uncatchable for him at this point, but Oscar Robertson (who would be the consensus No. 2) isn't.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I feel like the pros of his quick release are negated by the low release point. He should be fine if he's being guarded by smaller guys but I could also see SGs or PGs with long wingspans giving him a ton of trouble.

Im not saying they are concerning. Like yeah, against NBA defenders Lonzo's mechanics and lack of explosiveness might be a problem if he's at the top of the key isolated and trying to create his own shot. What I'm saying is that ideally in Luke Walton's offense, they are probably not going to want him doing that too often anyway.

 

[rambis]

Right. Can't stand the pressure of a 10-10 tie halfway through the first quarter.

Come on, man. This is some weird shit to go on about.



LOL. Tell me this happened.

Men lie, women lie...

Rambis you writing your doctorate thesis on choke threshold analysis in relation to value irrationality versus over-achievement in order to determine retrograde saltification imbalance?

Something like that lol. I thought it was a fun way to kill an afternoon.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Right. Can't stand the pressure of a 10-10 tie halfway through the first quarter.

His numbers at the end of close games is irrelevant in the face of this revelation.

 

[rambis]

His numbers at the end of close games is irrelevant in the face of this revelation.

The discussion was the finals, hence "Finals Curry". In the limited view of what you could see from that nba.com link Curry was the second worse player of everyone...

 

[-tetsuo-]

Can the NBA survive Curry being a fraud or will the brand recover is the question we need to answer now.

 

[Fjordson]

What makes it unreliable if he gets the shot off quickly? I think he'll be fine off the ball shooting off catches, which in my opinion is more important than ISO three point pull ups.

Overall I agree. The only potential weird thing I see is that because he brings the ball across his body from the left to such a degree that he basically can't shoot at all off the dribble if he's going to his right. But I agree with you that catch and shoot is more important.

What's funny is Kevin Durant actually has a smaller case of this. Mechanically it's not as severe, but he's way more comfortable pulling up going to his left because he also brings the ball across his body somewhat.

 

[DerangedHermit]

Hope the game is good tonight, having to wait till 2am for the start, fuck >.>

 

[Bread]

What's funny is Kevin Durant actually has a smaller case of this. Mechanically it's not as severe, but he's way more comfortable pulling up going to his left because he also brings the ball across his body somewhat.

Also helps that his release point is like 2 feet higher than Ball's

 

[VeeP]

Can the NBA survive Curry being a fraud or will the brand recover is the question we need to answer now.

They should just bench Steph unless they get a lead. Dude's useless. Warriors are shook.

 

[Fjordson]

Also helps that his release point is like 2 feet higher than Ball's

Yeah it's not nearly as bad as it is with Ball and he can still go right, but seeing so much more of KD this year with him being on the Dubs it's something I hadn't noticed before.

 

[Lionel Richie]

So, I've spent about 45mins going thru the play by plays of the last 2 finals + this year and compiled some data. The parameters are, Curry FGs when the score is within 10, regardless of time left in the game. This a great deal more lenient than the typical clutch rules of 5mins left with 5pt margins. To get this is pretty simple, go to the ESPN play by play pages, expand all the quarters and Ctrl-F "Curry makes" for the makes and "Curry miss" for the misses. Then you just look to the right to see if the margin is correct. I threw this into excel then got the averages. I can upload the data points in a google docs so you all can pick thru if you want.

Curry in the Finals, score within 10:

2015 Curry made 47/103 FGs for 46% from the field
2016 Curry made 37/92 FGs for 40% from the field.
2017 so far? 9/24 FGs for 38% from the field.

These are not good clutch numbers outside of 2015. IMO Finals Curry is a real thing but alas they will likely win anyway so this will all be swept under the rug.

The fact that the worst numbers come from what's been his best Finals should tell you something about small sample sizes fluctuations. But I'll indulge you, did you get how many of those shots are from 3? Or how he does with FTs?

 

[BassForever]

I feel weird picking the cavs tonight, it almost feels like a pick out of obligation for this series to actually be competitive.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Tonight is the night we see if the Warriors have the killer instinct. If they come out throwing loose passes around like it's a joke game then they learned nothing. If they come out fighting to end the series here and now, it's over.

 

[rambis]

The fact that the worst numbers come from what's been his best Finals should tell you something about small sample sizes fluctuations. But I'll indulge you, did you get how many of those shots are from 3? Or how he does with FTs?

1) ~100possesions is not a small sample size, its the most commonly accepted standard actually, hence why you often see per 100 numbers in advanced stats

2) I did seperate 2s and 3s but its not entirely accurate because the scorekeepers would alot of times only note the distance. Thought this was fine until you realize there's a 23foot 3pter, which im assuming is the corner.

3) Didnt take freethrows but from what I remember he rarely missed them at all at any point.

One thing you will notice is that when his shot isnt falling he will alot of times just try to blitz the three point line. There would be like 4-5 consecutive 3 misses at times.

His numbers for this year explode as they build leads. Far more blatantly than the previous years which is probably why you've heard me go on about it so much. This being overall his best numbers probably explain why most people are so shocked at what im trying to point out.

The key difference this year is that they are up big far longer in the game than they were at any other Finals. It basically doesnt get close after halftime.

 

[M52B28]

Does anyone here have any links to free streams?

 

[BMO = GOAT]

Does anyone here have any links to free streams?

Check your PM's.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The game is on ABC so you can just watch it by going to ESPN and clicking the link to watch now.

 

[Servbot24]

Does anyone here have any links to free streams?

Reported!

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The game is on ABC so you can just watch it by going to ESPN and clicking the link to watch now.

Not without a pay TV sign in, friend.

ESPN ain't like TNT Overtime

 

[PadWarrior]

I use Vue and can stream espn for the game. No cable here.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Not without a pay TV sign in, friend.

ESPN ain't like TNT Overtime

For a basic cable game I never used a login. Don't even have one to use.

 

[Not]

I feel weird picking the cavs tonight, it almost feels like a pick out of obligation for this series to actually be competitive.

I'm rooting for them too for the same reasons

 

[ryutaro's mama]

For a basic cable game I never used a login. Don't even have one to use.

Any time I tried click the play button, the prompt comes up, asking which service provider I have.

 

[Jarate]

I'm rooting for the Cavs but I still don't think any team beats them

The warriors are 2 gud

 

[Vicetrailia]

Tonight is the night we see if the Warriors have the killer instinct. If they come out throwing loose passes around like it's a joke game then they learned nothing. If they come out fighting to end the series here and now, it's over.

They can do the latter and still lose though. Cavs have to win today.

 

[phanphare]

we're about to see GoaT performances from bron and kyrie tonight

prepare yourself

 

[bionic77]

Kobe is going to play Lavar one on one with custody of Lonzo on the line. If Kobe wins (a big if) he can raise Lonzo the right way.

At least make it Shaq and Kobe versus Lavar to make it competitive.

Spoiler

All in on the Ball narrative