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NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller
- Thread starter Jarate
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CassidyIzABeast
Member
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Top 6, undisputedly - LeBron, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Harden, Westbrook
Tier of near-superstars that are just below - Wall, Giannis, CP3, Davis
There we go. That's 10.
???????
No way. Butler is only 2 years older, has the same amount of years on his contract. He would still be in his prime by the time he leaves that. Re-signing is a different issue, tbf, but Butler's defense and his status as an elite wing is enough for me.
AD is a power forward from now on. I put Gasol at number 1 tbh, he's the only well-balanced center imo.
KAT needs to not be a defensive sieve, you can't fault Boogie for his defense and excuse KAT's, which is worse atm.
See I don't personally fault Boogie for his D much like how I believe that being under a coach for more than a year will help KAT tremendously.
But somethin like KAT, Marc, Boogie or Gobert rounds out my top Centers and all of those players are top 20/25
darkwing-buck
Member
Is their a case that Davis will be better then KAT? He's still only 24
His defense isn't as good but that series where he dropped 35 and 10 a game on the champion warriors in the playoffs was bonkers.
His defense isn't as good but that series where he dropped 35 and 10 a game on the champion warriors in the playoffs was bonkers.
Hyperactivity
Banned
If you go back to the situation in 2014, the Cavs had to clear space just to sign LeBron. It wasn't difficult to clear that space, but the Cavs were basically able to make about one max signing, that's it.
That contract is so fucking bad holy shit. Whatever verbal agreement they made to Pau was dumb, they should've just absorbed him for another year and had tons of cap room when next year, Pau, Parker, Manu, and potentially LMA all came off the books
Simmons likely could have found a great deal for him to get paid if he was a UFA. He is 27 years old. Likely wanted minutes that the Spurs couldn't guarantee him, and with Orlando he can at least try for another payday when he is 29/30.
Dude doesn't have too many paydays in him. Doubt Spurs wanted a player that would be pissed off at not getting minutes or enough money or anything on their team.
Still, WTF at the Pau deal.
All of those teams were in situations where keeping the player also hurt their ability to tank/rebuild, so even if the returns were bad, they had less leverage than the Cavs.
Cavs go from championship contender with Kyrie to championship contender with other pieces. That's their primary focus atm.
Defense is a thing. Giannis as it stands, is a much more versatile and well-rounded player, and I trust him and his work ethic to keep improving his jumper (which is definitely is something he is working on and has improved already)
Bucks 99 times out of 100 hang up the phone if Minnesota calls for a trade of Giannis for KAT. Same with Davis for Giannis. Pretty sure either Giannis or Kawhi, not sure which, have the highest trade values in the league. Both are also paid under the max.
Giannis might be a tier below them, but they're all in the "almost superstars" level.
AD's defense is much better than KAT's
Hyperactivity
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????
I can't tell who you're talking about here. Davis is an elite rim protector and defensive player. The main reason you take KAT over him is injury history. KAT and Davis are both players who could easily go on to score MVPs, so the talent/skill/athleticism/whatever else makes a basketball player "better" isn't really a question, it's just a matter of how their careers go.
darkwing-buck
Member
I meant defensive upside because of college, but yeah you're right, Davis is too good.
Granted it's because of injuries but all I hear about is KAT, not much on Davis.
I move CP3 up and our MVPs down to call it a top 5, but that's a reasonable list. Is Wall really up there? I don't have a better name for you to carry a team, but idk. Moving on to 10-15: Klaystation, Draymond, Kyrie, Jimmy,
Embiid
Looks like Boogie is out of it. Honestly, how much Sacramento Kings basketball are we all watching? I'd rather reserve judgement on a guy than stick him somewhere based on what ESPN thinks of him combined with that one game I saw 6 months ago.
Some of this depends on what you value, it's the classic Lebron vs. Kobe argument. Kobe is never going to drag a team to the conference finals like Lebron, but that's not the only barometer. Case in point, Draymond would be useless by that measure.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I remember being incredibly confused about the discussions of KAT > Davis around this time last year. You can have all the superstar potential in the world, but Davis was the first of the younger players to go out and actually become a superstar (although the age difference between him and Kawhi is less than that of him and KAT, so I'm always a little hesitant about grouping Davis in the "younger stars" group)
Not to go all Mark Cuban on you, but no.
Hyperactivity
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Wanna clarify? I probably take KAT due to having him for more years, and injury history, and him improving again this year (still not better than Davis atm). But if they're both MVP level talents, but Davis has achieved a ton of his potential already, and KAT hasn't yet done that, Davis is better.
I think there is an argument to be made that KAT has more value because of the injury concerns with Davis + longer team control. Has anyone ever seriously argued that KAT is a better player at this moment in time?
Hyperactivity
Banned
There's more stuff about Melo and Houston, but at this point, I'm wary of posting anything till it happens. Nevertheless, if the stuff that is out there is to be trusted, according to one source, Melo to the Rockets happens tomorrow/today (Tuesday), another source says that it happens at 5:45 PM tomorrow, and another source says Portland is in fact involved.
2nd one sorta called the CP3 trade and other moves around that time. Seems to be friends with Morey. 3rd one seems based in Portland, so if they do indeed have sources, I'm guessing it's within the Blazers org.
It's not sure enough for me, but it's also not stuff from people like Schultz, Isola, Amico, Kennedy, etc. that you can immediately throw out.
I remember seeing it a lot in terms of predictions for 2016-17. People were way too high on the Timberwolves because of Thibs + young players.
2nd one sorta called the CP3 trade and other moves around that time. Seems to be friends with Morey. 3rd one seems based in Portland, so if they do indeed have sources, I'm guessing it's within the Blazers org.
It's not sure enough for me, but it's also not stuff from people like Schultz, Isola, Amico, Kennedy, etc. that you can immediately throw out.
I remember seeing it a lot in terms of predictions for 2016-17. People were way too high on the Timberwolves because of Thibs + young players.
I meant the superstar comment, thus a reference to Mark Cuban. KAT and AD are in the same category as players who put up numbers on bad teams.
beat
Member
Even knowing about the luxury tax, I will never understand how Presti panicked on this core.
True Savior
Member
It's indisputable that Westbrook is a top 6 player?
I put the top 12 players in two separate tiers.
Tier 1:
1) LeBron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Harden
Some may argue with the order but I doubt anyone would disagree with that being the top 5. I put them in their own class because I believe if they are a teams top player, that team is going to win at least 50 games. I disagree that Westbrook should be included within that group.
Tier 2 consists of 7 players that are good not great first options but elite second options. If they are a teams best player that team will most likely make the playoffs.
Tier 2:
6) CP3
7) Westbrook
8) Wall
9) Davis
10) PG13
11) Butler
12) Giannis
CP3 is closer to a tier 1 guy than Westbrook is. He's a more efficient offensive player, better defender, better shooter, and has a better assist/turnover ratio.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
There is pretty good chance the Cavs may have to bring Kyrie back for the beginning of the season.
They will ask for a kings ransom and nobody will bite.
They will ask for a kings ransom and nobody will bite.
What are you talking about bro? He made the Knicks a super team last year. Kappa
Caddywompus
Member
Nah if you're going to break that core up you need to do it before the season or not at all.
Denver makes a lot of sense after reading Zach Lowe's piece. Some collection of Harris, Murray, Barton, Chandler and Faried. If you're CLE you could even unload some of your bad contracts while collecting youth and role players ready to help a contender now.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
None of them are the blue chip guy the Cavs want and if I am the Nuggets I am not gutting my roster for Kyrie and a bunch of bad salary.
Plus that Jokic/Kyrie dynamic would be too much like the Lebron/Kyrie dynamic for my liking.
I am not taking the Cavs trash only for Kyrie to walk after a couple of years.
I feel like Giannis gets a lot of credit for his potential rather than his actual contributions.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
If that was a year ago you would be right but not after this year.
He just led an injury riddled roster to the playoffs while posting one of the most well rounded statistical seasons of anyone. He already a top 10 player in terms of contributions.
Caddywompus
Member
Millsap would expire the same year as Kyrie and if you think he walks trade him and continue to build around Jokic. Kyrie just wants his own team and he'd have that in DEN a city who's main export isn't crippling depression.
It's not like you would have to worry about him bolting to join a Super Team or head home to any particular team
It's about the closest compromise where Kryie gets his wish, CLE clears cap space while obtaining young pieces when Lebron leaves, Lebron gets a new super team of Love and the Denver Nuggets
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Connor is a champ in a 1v1 sport and is about to get 100m due to his shit talking. Draymond literally talks like he's the biggest superstar on the Warriors half the time, and I can't take the amount of cringe. Dude is lucky that someone like Curry doesn't care about any of that noise or he would have been leveled his dumbass a long time ago (or better yet, the last 2 years when it was glaringly evident).
Draymond on the not GOAT attacking team and possibly best team of all time would look like Cousins with elite D and hustle, in terms of looking like a dumbass whose antics aren't doing anything to winning. But he's in an amazing position where he can lose a team a final by being a dumbfuck and they still forgive him.
Because when you're winning, tension gets put on the back of the bus. When you get humiliated and shit on as a big team, it only enhances issues.
Almost as funny as x star player going to Lakers but not really happening that happens every year. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Cousins with elite defense and hustle would pass up Westbrook and Harden to be a top 5 player
Draymond obvs isn't Cousins though
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Yeah I figured that would get misconstrued. Cousins is one of the best off players, and they're different types (one shines in off, other in def). My point is they're both the biggest dumbfucks in the league and due to their attitude they hamper teams, though Cousins is on a tier above Draymond quality wise whose dumbass probably thinks he's top 5-7 in the league despite shooting like Daredevil on wide open shots that he gets every single game.
Connor is an actual superstar in his sport, he's the superstar so when he talks shit I can let it slide. Draymond on the other hand is nowhere near a superstar and talks shit because he has actual superstars in his team, otherwise no one would listen to his dumbass.
EDIT: A lotta yall underrating Cousins, even with him being a cancer and a dumbass of the highest proportion.
Lol ship him to the Knicks for Melo
Caddywompus
Member
When is the last time we had a 1 for 1 swap of current all-stars? Ray Allen - Gary Payton Trade?
Cornbread78
Member
Not a bad lineup by any means, but enough of a downgrade that Boston would make me a little more nervous
Lebron is still likely good enough to beat Boston as long as he has a halfway decent roster. That team would get swept by GSW though.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
It wasn't quite 1 to 1 (bunch of scrubs and picks involved) but if the Cavs do a deal like that they are beyond screwed.
Over the hill melo for almost prime Kyrie isn't as awful as prime Ray Allen for 28 games of over the hill Gary Payton but its still pretty bad.
7 game multiple OT series.
davidwhangchoi
Member
he can be the next star after LeBron retires. that guy is unbelievable.
MushroomSamba
Member
Eh, if Rose stays healthy (big "if", I know), that's probably a better lineup than last year. I mean, they're not gonna play any D, but they'll have steady scoring from everywhere but the 5 (and really, TT is just there to get them a second opportunity every now and then).
Melo is kinda interesting to me...I mean, we've seen him actually play D in the olympics, so it could very well be a motivation/effort thing. But at this point, he's also older, so even if he is now willing to do his part, who knows if he still has the capability.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
That lineup isn't better.Upgrading from JR to Melo isn't enough to make up for downgrading massively from Kyrie to whats left of Rose.
Also playing defense in the olympics isn't as demanding as in the NBA.
The point of bringing Melo to a banana boat team is making him have the attitude he had in Team USA and share the rock more. It won't magically make him into a good defender.