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NCAA 2014-15 Men's Basketball |OT| It's Cal's World, We're Just Living In It

G

Grover Cleveland

Member
inm8num2 said:
O/U on number of flops in Duke/Wisky? :p
Click to expand...

Josh Hairston isn't on the roster, Plumlee the Third isn't coordinated enough to take charges, and the only other scholarship scrappy guy, Grayson "Flight White" Allen gets limited minutes so you probably won't see many from Duke.

Flopping has become a lost for Duke basketball in the past few years. If it wasn't the real MVP Josh Hairston keeping it alive, we may have lost it entirely.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
You guys have a distorted view of flopping anyway.

Most Duke guys are absorbing full contact and trying to draw charges. That's not flopping, that's a strategy of trying to draw a foul. It helps that they know how to absorb the contact and fall properly. I'm not going to say that nobody has ever embellished to any degree, but usually it's a case where full contact has been made. You might not like a player trying to draw a charge versus trying to make some other defensive play (a steal, blocking a shot, getting out of the way entirely), but that doesn't make it a flop.

If you want to see flops, see Dwyane Wade.
 
N

NaturalHigh

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
You guys have a distored view of flopping anyway.

Most Duke guys are absorbing full contact and trying to draw charges. That's not flopping, that's a strategy of trying to draw a foul. It helps that they know how to absorb the contact and fall properly. I'm not going to say that nobody has ever embellished to any degree, but usually it's a case where full contact has been made. You might not like a player trying to draw a charge versus trying to make some other defensive play (a steal, blocking a shot, getting out of the way entirely), but that doesn't make it a flop.

If you want to see flops, see Dwyane Wade.
Click to expand...

You are right Coach K definitely teaches them to do it correctly. It wouldn't be so bad if coaches were able to challenge a few times a game. These blocking/charging calls happen so fast you can't expectect a ref to always get them right.
 
S

Seth C

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
You guys have a distored view of flopping anyway.

Most Duke guys are absorbing full contact and trying to draw charges. That's not flopping, that's a strategy of trying to draw a foul. It helps that they know how to absorb the contact and fall properly. I'm not going to say that nobody has ever embellished to any degree, but usually it's a case where full contact has been made. You might not like a player trying to draw a charge versus trying to make some other defensive play (a steal, blocking a shot, getting out of the way entirely), but that doesn't make it a flop.

If you want to see flops, see Dwyane Wade.
Click to expand...

Anytime an entire team is taught "taking a charge" as the primary defensive strategy, there is going to be a whole lot of embellishment added. However you are right, I do not like that strategy at all. Obviously sometimes charges happen, and the defender should be rewarded, but I don't think a defender should ever be rewarded for TRYING to slide in and get their feet set just in the nick of time. I think that's cheap and not good for the game of basketball.

I favor calling a blocking foul in all questionable cases, which is basically how it was last season but refs just refused to do it so the NCAA gave up. Stupid.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Yeah, the charge stuff usually isn't full on flopping. I just despise it as a defensive strategy. It discourages making a defensive play on the ball and almost rewards perimeter defenders for getting beat off the dribble (since taking a charge is much easier for their helping teammate than an attempt to block or alter a driver's shot without fouling).
 
N

NaturalHigh

Member
Yup we can all agree challenging the shot and trying to get a block is the superior defensive strategy. Until UK isn't the 2nd tallest basketball team in America and adopts the draw a charge strategy. :)
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
If you want to get technical (and I absolutely do, because any chance to knock UK off their perch is one you have to take) Florida State's taller than Kentucky (6'7.5 on average vs 6'5.5 on average).

But Leonard Hamilton's always loved his trees. He has 3 (3!) seven footers on the roster.
 
P

perfectchaos007

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
If you want to get technical (and I absolutely do, because any chance to knock UK off their perch is one you have to take) Florida State's taller than Kentucky (6'7.5 on average vs 6'5.5 on average).

But Leonard Hamilton's always loved his trees. He has 3 (3!) seven footers on the roster.
Click to expand...

Damn. Texas is considered a tall team too but we don't have any 7 footers
 
S

Seth C

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
If you want to get technical (and I absolutely do, because any chance to knock UK off their perch is one you have to take) Florida State's taller than Kentucky (6'7.5 on average vs 6'5.5 on average).

But Leonard Hamilton's always loved his trees. He has 3 (3!) seven footers on the roster.
Click to expand...

Sure, but...

7-3 -- 7-0
7-1 -- 7-0
7-0 -- 6-11
6-9 -- 6-10
6-8 -- 6-9
6-6 -- 6-9
6-5 -- 6-8
6-5 -- 6-6
6-4 -- 6-6
6-4 -- 6-6
6-3 -- 6-4
6-0 -- 6-2


If you just include the tallest 12 on each squad, UK has 11 inches on Florida State. The average at UK includes 4 more people, mostly walk-ons. So is the average height at Florida State larger? Sure. Is their starting lineup taller? No. Are their top 10 players taller? Nope. Is their average height taller if you include position 13-16 for Kentucky, which doesn't exist at Florida State? Well, yeah.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Grover Cleveland said:
If you want to get technical (and I absolutely do, because any chance to knock UK off their perch is one you have to take) Florida State's taller than Kentucky (6'7.5 on average vs 6'5.5 on average).

But Leonard Hamilton's always loved his trees. He has 3 (3!) seven footers on the roster.
Click to expand...

Not according to kenpom, but I think kenpom does his averages by minutes played, so a 7 footer on the bench that never plays doesn't count.

The only rotation guy UK plays that is less than 6'6" is Ulis. If you count the garbage time lineup of Malone, Long, Lanter, etc, it kind of skews the numbers, and isn't really relevant.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
UNC's really about to fuck around and choke the Challenge away.

Seth C said:
If you just include the tallest 12 on each squad, UK has 11 inches on Florida State. The average at UK includes 4 more people, mostly walk-ons. So is the average height at Florida State larger? Sure. Is their starting lineup taller? No. Are their top 10 players taller? Nope. Is their average height taller if you include position 13-16 for Kentucky, which doesn't exist at Florida State? Well, yeah.
Click to expand...


iamblades said:
Not according to kenpom, but I think kenpom does his averages by minutes played, so a 7 footer on the bench that never plays doesn't count.

The only rotation guy UK plays that is less than 6'6" is Ulis. If you count the garbage time lineup of Malone, Long, Lanter, etc, it kind of skews the numbers, and isn't really relevant.
Click to expand...

I said technical

KanyeShrugSmiley1.png


I basically found the one metric by which FSU came out on top and ran with it. The whole discussion is irrelevant anyway. I doubt any neutral observer is going to watch Florida State play and then watch UK play and then say that they want the maroon team based off of miniscule height differences.
 
B

Bowser

Member
iamblades said:
Why is everyone in the stadium wearing those hideous lime green T shirts?

Lime green and baby blue do not go well together at all.
Click to expand...

Some awareness for recycling bullshit.

I can't believe we lost to fucking Iowa at home.

This team has MAJOR issues. No one can fucking shoot.
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
UNC always plays up (or down) to their competition early in the season, they'll be up for UK. They do need some outside shooting tho.
 
S

Seth C

Member
truly101 said:
UNC always plays up (or down) to their competition early in the season, they'll be up for UK. They do need some outside shooting tho.
Click to expand...

And to control tempo, which I'm not sure a Roy coached team is really going to attempt. But they will be amped up. It'll be a good game.
 
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