NaturalHigh
Member
I'd love to see a UK/Duke classic this March.When was the last time we met them then?
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NCAA 2014-15 Men's Basketball |OT| It's Cal's World, We're Just Living In It
- Thread starter Grover Cleveland
- Start date
I'd love to see a UK/Duke classic this March.When was the last time we met them then?
NaturalHigh
Member
I'd say they are a solid top 12 team.
Edit:
Double post. I figured someone would say something in that 6 minute gap. Thanks for letting me down GAF.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Fantastic win. Greatly enjoyed it.
In the NCAA Tournament? Elite 8, 1998, on our way to a national championship. They haven't managed to keep up their end of the bargain since then. The selection committee has desperately tried to make it happen many times.
Randolph Freelander
Member
That second half collapse still haunts me.
But Duke was in the Final Four in 2010, playing... West Virginia? Where were the Cats?
The talent differential was huge though, Duke should have won by at least 20. If Winslow just puts in a below average performance they win by 20.
NaturalHigh
Member
Don't remind me. I was in Iraq and woke up at 2:30 AM when I had to go to work at 8. (12 hour shifts) to watch that game. Jesus...talk about a shit day and a lot of trash talking when I got to work. WV shot lights out though. It was ridiculous.
perfectchaos007
Member
This Wichita St. v. Utah game is coming down to the wire
I don't recall. Where was Duke in 2011 when they were a 1 seed and we could have met in the Final Four, or 2012 when Duke was a 2 seed and we could have met in the Elite 8 but they lost in the first round in the biggest upset since the tournament expanded to 64 teams, or last season when Duke was a 3 seed and again lost in the first round when we could have played in the Elite 8?
perfectchaos007
Member
A ref is injured now
Randolph Freelander
Member
Let's see...
2011, they were 1 toe short of competing. Things happen.
2012, they were kind of terrible.
2013, they weren't terrible but lost to a Kentucky team from Louisville.
2014, they were kind of terrible again.
Oh well, such is life.
So what you're saying is since your last Final Four, while bombing out of the first round twice, Kentucky has won a championship, finished second, been to a final four, and in our down year Duke managed to got whipped by 20+ by the other team from Kentucky?
Yup, sounds about right.
You're right though, we didn't hold up our end of the bargain...in 2010.Unfortunately, as star-studded as the team was that year, we didn't have a single shooter on the team.
Guess that's what happens when the new coach has to make up for a decade of recruiting failures in 2 months.Randolph Freelander
Member
Yeah, that's pretty much the run of things.
On the plus side, this season you have the only transcendent player in college basketball. I have a feeling that will count for a lot in March.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Grover Cleveland
Member
Let's just take a moment to curse Matt Howard's name collectively just for old times sake.
I think KAT is right there with him as a two way player.
Okafor has better touch on offense, but KAT is a better defender and rebounder.
As far as overall numbers of course, it's not even going to be close simply because of the minutes and usage differences.
KAT is a really, really good player. He isn't a game changer. Few players are. Anthony Davis could win games on his own. I think Okafor can as well. I don't think KAT is that kind of player.
Proelite
Member
You mean Justice Winslow?
I think he could be if he played the kind of minutes and role that Okafor does.
The advantage Kentucky has is that they don't need any one guy to win a game on their own.
And as good as Okafor has been, he is no AD. AD had basically the best single season on record by a college player according to advanced stats. Okafor isn't having anywhere near that kind of impact so far. In particular his DR%, BLK% and FTrate are not that great for an elite big man, which are basically the most important things for a big man to do IMO.
I miss TheNatural getting mad and yelling at everyone in these threads, including MightyHealthy, the only other big Louisville fan CBB Gaf. I see the other Duke fans have come out today. None of y'all ever post of the football board, even in the good times. Even some of the UK fans have posted over there this year.
Oh, he's not AD. But then, almost no one is AD. But he's closer to John Wall or Cousins than I think KAT is. And I think by the end of the season he will be even more so. Maybe KAT will surprise me, but I'm just not entirely sure he's that type. Already he's shown willingness to sleep walk through games. Sw players just don't have that in them.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Duke has a football team?
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
Upon further review, maybe we were a bit too generous with Brad Brownell's buyout during contract negotiations.
MisterR
Member
I disagree. Okafor is fantastic and KAT isn't quiet that good, but if he was the focus of the UK offense and everything ran through him, he would be a 20/10 guy easily. He'll be the 2nd pick in the NBA draft.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Not a fan of CFB. :/
Yes, one that is fortunately not located in Alabama.
Okafor may be drafted ahead of KAT, but I think people are underestimating him greatly if they think he isn't even in the same category of players.
KAT is getting basically the same amount of rebounds/assists and double the blocks in 9 fewer minutes. Roughly half the points, but also roughly half the shot attempts. I just don't see this giant gulf between them, and if you give me a choice, 99% of the time I'm taking the big with better defense and rebounding over the one with better offense. Okafor's DRB% is alarmingly low for a low post center, and that's basically the one thing we know translates to the NBA. The closest statistical match I can find for Okafor is actually Cody Zeller, but Zeller drew more fouls and shot (way) more FTs.
If KAT were playing 28-30 minutes a game(without even increasing his role in the offense when he is out there), he would be averaging a stat line pretty close to AD's was, like 14/11/4.5, but KAT would have more assists(and TOs of course). KAT has been more foul prone early than AD was, but that's usually normal for a young big, AD was kind of abnormal in that areas. Also maybe the knowledge that he only needs to play 20 minutes a night makes him more aggressive in situations where he might foul.
Sure, but would he disappear from games? Against Buffalo he was in foul trouble and only got 3 points on 16% shooting. Against Boston U he played 23 minutes, and could have physically dominated that team, but he didn't. Instead he dropped 4 points with 4 turnovers on 25%. I don't think he has the killer instinct, the refusal to quit, the intangible whatever that makes great players truly great. He lets himself get taken out of games, he relies on his natural physical gifts, but he doesn't seem to have that drive that to me, separates stars from superstars.
There is nothing wrong with that, and on a balanced team that's fine. It works. But I think Okafor has more of that drive, which will make him special, and I'd feel much more comfortable if my team NEEDED him to win a game for us. I think he would rise to that occasion.
This is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison though given that KAT is working 4 minutes at a time and if he has a bad 10 minutes that is the majority of his game.
Another important distinction are the differences in the defenses okafor sees compared to KAT. Okafor doesn't see the kind of collapsed zone defenses that uk bugs have to deal with every game.
I haven't seen the kind of sleep walking through games that you are talking about, on the typical effort measurables like defense and rebounding, KAT has out performed okafor.
Now you're kind of grasping at straws. Show me a game where Okafor played 23 minutes and only scored 4. Because I see...
23 minutes, 19 points
26 minutes, 24 points
25 minutes, 21 points
5 of 8 games Okafor has made 75%+ of his shots.
Then you aren't paying attention. You don't score 3 points and get 5 fouls in 10 minutes without being lazy. You don't score 4 points and rack up 4 turnovers (negating all 4 rebounds) in 23 minutes if you are focused. Against Providence he had 11 points but still managed to get 4 fouls and 2 turnovers to go with 0 assists, 0 blocks, and 0 steals. KAT has all the skills Okafor does, and then some, but he doesn't have the motivation to use them ALL the time. He takes breaks. Sometimes for entire games.
NaturalHigh
Member
I am going to agree with Seth here. Okafor is a way better player. Trying to crunch stats based on minutes played and all of that isn't going to work. Are you Brad Pitt from Money Ball trying to win the series? Because I feel like an actual scout that can just see that Okafor is more determined, more skilled and has way more potential than KAT.
Would they be a good matchup? Sure. But that is because they are both big and athletic. Okafor seems like the kind of guy that works hard at what he does and has the natural talent to make him a special player.
Would they be a good matchup? Sure. But that is because they are both big and athletic. Okafor seems like the kind of guy that works hard at what he does and has the natural talent to make him a special player.
I actually like Towns more as a prospect personally. More of a rim protector and a better shooter.
But it's hard to compare the two given the wide gap in minutes. I think Okafor as the more sure thing will be picked first. His post game is unmatched right now and Towns is still kinda figuring himself out it seems. But it wouldn't shock me if Towns ends up as the better pro.
But it's hard to compare the two given the wide gap in minutes. I think Okafor as the more sure thing will be picked first. His post game is unmatched right now and Towns is still kinda figuring himself out it seems. But it wouldn't shock me if Towns ends up as the better pro.
Doesn't really matter to me. I care about which one is a game changer right here, right now, this season. To me that's Okafor by a fairly wide margin.
Not really grasping at straws, it's pretty obvious that the short periods of play hurt the offensive flow a bit. It's worth it for the defensive chaos it causes as the game wears on, with fresh guys going 100%, but you can see the starts and stops when one unit adjusts to what the defense is doing, then the second unit comes in and has to figure it out all over again.
I expect freshman big men to have the kinds of games like your first example, it happens to pretty much everyone. He also had 9/8/4 in 18 minutes vs Kansas.
You will have substantially larger swings in per game output playing 18 minutes per game than playing 28, doesn't always mean that a player is taking plays off.
With the way most teams play us defensively I don't expect our big guys to create much offense in the post. We saw early last year what happens when a post player tries to physically dominate the other team when there are 4 defenders in the paint. It's impressive, but it's not winning basketball.
And I can pull up games where AD played 20 minutes and had 4 points. AD had a game almost identical to KAT's BU game against Penn State early in the season, minus the turnovers, but he had 4 TO games as well, and he never turned the ball over. Not comparing the two, but bad games happen sometimes, and it gets on my nerves when people attribute every failure or bad game to some personality flaw like being lazy. I can promise you that the shittiest D1 basketball player is almost certainly a harder worker than me or 99% of people I know.
I'm not even really crunching stats by minutes played, as KAT is competitive with Okafor in basically every area other than scoring without adjusting for minutes played. Okafor is obviously the better offensive player because of his ridiculously good shooting touch (In fact I've compared his offensive game favorably to Duncan's), my point is just that there are other things a player can do to alter a game, and KAT accomplishes more of those things in fewer minutes than Okafor does.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Cavs @ Knicks on TNT (8 ET).
Grover Cleveland
Member
Speaking of big-time Duke players, Nike revealed Kyrie Irving's new signature shoe, the Kyrie 1, last night at a star-studded event. On hand were such luminaries as Lebron James, Charles Barkley, and the wind beneath Kyrie's wings, Josh Hairston.
perfectchaos007
Member
Not as bad as those $8 shoes Sephon Marburry wore.
perfectchaos007
Member
Big 12 predictably went 3-1 against the SEC today. Only difference was I expected Ole Miss to win and LSU to lose. LSU has a ton of athleticism and I wouldn't be surprised seeing them finish #3 or #4 in the SEC
Sorta kinda called that shit.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Are you really going to pick on a team twice for not living quite up to potential when at least one of its star players is injured (2011 and 2013)?
If we're opening up that door, I'd rather get upset in the 1st round twice in 5 years than be stuck in the NIT even once. You conveniently glossed over that in your evaluation of 2013 though ; )
(not to mention Ryan Kelly never fully recovered from his re-injury of the same issues he had in 2012, and Seth's legs were so messed up that he couldn't even participate in practice the entire season).
Yup, sounds about right.
I don't think our team was good enough last year to be making any "bargains". Certainly not the garbage team in 2012.
Anyway, enough talk about history. I wish Tyus would tone it back a little bit so he stays longer than a year. Pre-season I figured, even if he's great, with his size he'll probably stay another year or so. But if he keeps playing the way he did in Wisconsin...
Going off how I felt after the UAB game in 2004, I'm not sure about the bolded, and that wasn't even a first round game.
As for 2013, shit happens. We struck out in recruiting trying to get a PG who could run the offense, we struggle through the first half of the season, and just when we were starting to develop a team identity, we lose our best player for the season. At the end of that season I wasn't even really sad about how it ended, I was just sad about what happened to Nerlens.
ETA: I was actually mostly proud about how that 2013 team ended the regular season, they could have shit the bed and lost every game after Nerlens went down, but they managed to pull out a few more quality wins including a win vs a very good Florida team to close out the season.
That depends, are you going to pick on a team that lost its star player because he snapped his leg in two?
Guess so then.
I didn't gloss over it though, it was just impossible for us to meet that year for obvious reason, but if being "stuck" in the NIT always comes sandwiched between two NCAA championship games then sign me up, brother! Give me all the NIT appearances we can handle.
NaturalHigh
Member
Getting close to game time. Should be a good one. Good luck Texas gaf and prep for the fuckery that is UK fans in here.
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