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[Amory]

The question I have is, if it's essentially a race to 16 teams, why doesn't the ACC just take both UConn and Louisville and then just look to add another team down the line? I mean it would mean less money for each team in the short term, but probably more stability in the long term.

Plus it would essentially mercy-kill the Big East, which just needs to happen at this point.

Hell football, basketball, baseball, anything.

Um, no. Football. That's about it for you guys right now. And let's not forget that the past 3 years before this one you've also been an awful football program.

As far as basketball, I love what Louisville's done, it's a fun rivalry, but UConn's got three national championships in 13 years. Not that anyone cares about basketball anyway when it comes to conference realignment...

 

[GoldenEye 007]

The question I have is, if it's essentially a race to 16 teams, why doesn't the ACC just take both UConn and Louisville and then just look to add another team down the line? I mean it would mean less money for each team in the short term, but probably more stability in the long term.

Plus it would essentially mercy-kill the Big East, which just needs to happen at this point.

I don't see why it needs to happen, but ok. There have been other schools that have busted their ass in all sports only to get dicked over. I don't see how relegating them to shit status is something that needs to happen.

 

[iamblades]

PAC-12 is pretty stable, too. They have no competition.

If I'm the ACC and making a football move, I'm taking Louisville. I don't know that it keeps Florida State and Clemson completely happy, but happier than taking UConn, probably.

But dadgummit, Florida State and Clemson have only themselves to blame. Sure, they're both good this year, but FSU fell off the map compared to where they were in the 90s. Clemson hadn't won a conference championship (before last year) since before Florida State joined the conference! And they weren't all that relevant during that time. If them 2 had been playing up to their own lofty standards, the ACC would have been a far more attractive football brand and could therefore generate some more football revenue. Yes, Virginia Tech is having a down year now, but they have been carrying the league the entire time they've been in it. Georgia Tech, you're not happy, either? Then why are you running a gimmick offense that nobody wants to play in and that everybody can figure out if they've got more than a week to prepare for it? It wasn't that long ago that you, too, were relevant in football. Want more football revenue? Start winning again!

The ACC teams looking for an eject switch should look in the mirror. Take some pride. If they could actually beat SEC and Big 12 teams (or even Big East teams!) in non-conference and bowl games, they might not have to look to join those conferences. The ACC could stand on its own.

And I didn't even mention Miami.

Yeah I didn't even think about the PAC cause we are talking about UCONN and Lville.

They have monopoly status out west pretty much, so they aren't going anywhere soon.

I'd also take Louisville over UCONN if I were the ACC. Seems like the better all around program, and a better geographic fit(like that matters in the era of superconferences).

 

[Randolph Freelander]

The question I have is, if it's essentially a race to 16 teams, why doesn't the ACC just take both UConn and Louisville and then just look to add another team down the line? I mean it would mean less money for each team in the short term, but probably more stability in the long term.

Plus it would essentially mercy-kill the Big East, which just needs to happen at this point.

15 doesn't work for football. The only way they add 2 now is if they could get Notre Dame to go all in for 16. I don't think that's happening, although it would certainly help matters. Of course, if they could get Notre Dame to go all in, they probably wouldn't bother with the 2! Stay at 14.

 

[TheNatural]

Yes, but how is your women's basketball team? That could be the dealbreaker.

We're 7th in the country in womens basketball. We're 2nd in the country in mens basketball. We're 18th in the country in football. Our other programs like soccer, we're #10 in the country and in the Sweet 16 in soccer. We just won the Big East in volleyball and are ranked #9. Our baseball team has constantly won the Big East and been in the NCAA Tourney and will be preseason top 25.

We're always in the top 20-30 in the Director's Cup standings despite not carrying a ton of point grab sports. We're top 20 in athletic revenue with no help from the state, no help from the BCS, and no help from TV contracts - while upgrading basically every athletic facility on campus. We're a sleeping giant where if we added $15 to $20 mil a year to our revenue, we would blow up on a unimaginable scale.

Nothing about athletics is the dealbreaker, because right now we might be flat out better an athletic program than anyone in the ACC period - much less hoping and begging to get in. It's all location and TV market.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

We're 7th in the country in womens basketball. We're 2nd in the country in mens basketball. We're 18th in the country in football. Our other programs like soccer, we're #10 in the country and in the Sweet 16 in soccer. We just won the Big East in volleyball and are ranked #9. Our baseball team has constantly won the Big East and been in the NCAA Tourney and will be preseason top 25.

We're always in the top 20-30 in the Director's Cup standings despite not carrying a ton of point grab sports. We're top 20 in athletic revenue with no help from the state, no help from the BCS, and no help from TV contracts - while upgrading basically every athletic facility on campus. We're a sleeping giant where if we added $15 to $20 mil a year to our revenue, we would blow up on a unimaginable scale.

Nothing about athletics is the dealbreaker, because right now we might be flat out better an athletic program than anyone in the ACC period - much less hoping and begging to get in. It's all location and TV market.

You've convinced me, but I don't have a vote.

 

[iamblades]

We're 7th in the country in womens basketball. We're 2nd in the country in mens basketball. We're 18th in the country in football. Our other programs like soccer, we're #10 in the country and in the Sweet 16 in soccer. We just won the Big East in volleyball and are ranked #9. Our baseball team has constantly won the Big East and been in the NCAA Tourney and will be preseason top 25.

We're always in the top 20-30 in the Director's Cup standings despite not carrying a ton of point grab sports. We're top 20 in athletic revenue with no help from the state, no help from the BCS, and no help from TV contracts - while upgrading basically every athletic facility on campus. We're a sleeping giant where if we added $15 to $20 mil a year to our revenue, we would blow up on a unimaginable scale.

Nothing about athletics is the dealbreaker, because right now we might be flat out better an athletic program than anyone in the ACC period - much less hoping and begging to get in. It's all location and TV market.

YUM center much?

I agree with most everything else though.

 

[TheNatural]

You've convinced me, but I don't have a vote.

Well it's a pretty convincing set of results. We don't have a lot of mindshare though, and that's the problem. We're not sitting on our asses collecting undeserved BCS/TV checks going 2-10 in football like some programs, we're working our asses off to get everything with no welfare checks. That's the most frustrating thing about it. I hope in the next week or so it all will pay off in some form or fashion.

 

[TheNatural]

YUM center much?

I agree with most everything else though.

The state paid jack shit. All that money came from the city, bonds, and a tax district. The state of Kentucky treats Louisville like it may as well be in Indiana - even though 90% of the tax money from the city gets funneled to the rest of the state.

Hell if anything, the state added on to the problems. The shitty ass fair board is corrupt as fuck, ran up ridiculous expenses running the operations for the arena, and were kicked out for another contractor.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I think in the long run, big public schools like Louisville will find their way in and small private schools like Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, and even Duke will find themselves out in the cold. Particularly those schools that exist in television markets already covered by a conference. Maybe they find a landing spot in another conference for precisely that reason, but SEC doesn't need Vandy nor does ACC need a team like Wake Forest. I even suggested on ESPN that a good decision short term might be for ACC and SEC to trade Wake for Vandy outright. Work together to increase TV markets for both conferences. But that makes too much sense to actually happen.

 

[iamblades]

The state paid jack shit. All that money came from the city, bonds, and a tax district. The state of Kentucky treats Louisville like it may as well be in Indiana - even though 90% of the tax money from the city gets funneled to the rest of the state.

Hell if anything, the state added on to the problems. The shitty ass fair board is corrupt as fuck, ran up ridiculous expenses running the operations for the arena, and were kicked out for another contractor.

Who is backing the bond issue? Who is on the hook if the arena defaults on the bonds? Oh that's right, the state is.

Anyway, the point is that there is no other school in the nation that has a publicly financed state of the art NBA arena, and that certainly boosts UL's athletic revenue. Which particular municipality paid what is irrelevant.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I think in the long run, big public schools like Louisville will find their way in and small private schools like Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, and even Duke will find themselves out in the cold. Particularly those schools that exist in television markets already covered by a conference. Maybe they find a landing spot in another conference for precisely that reason, but SEC doesn't need Vandy nor does ACC need a team like Wake Forest. I even suggested on ESPN that a good decision short term might be for ACC and SEC to trade Wake for Vandy outright. Work together to increase TV markets for both conferences. But that makes too much sense to actually happen.

Hopefully. Sooner or later UCF's 60k+ students will have something to say hopefully. Probably will take a decade or more of absolute hell, though.

 

[Amory]

We're 7th in the country in womens basketball. [Uconn #1, 7 national championships] We're 2nd in the country in mens basketball [Uconn #21 in a down year, 3 national championships]. We're 18th in the country in football. Our other programs like soccer, we're #10 in the country and in the Sweet 16 in soccer [Louisville is a 10th seed in the tournament, actually ended the regular season ranked #17. Uconn was #7 and likewise in the sweet 16 as a 4 seed]. We just won the Big East in volleyball and are ranked #9. Our baseball team has constantly won the Big East and been in the NCAA Tourney and will be preseason top 25.

Please stop acting like uconn is any kind of a slouch compared to Louisville. It's ridiculous.

 

[TheNatural]

Who is backing the bond issue? Oh that's right, the state is.

Anyway, the point is that there is no other school in the nation that has a publicly financed state of the art NBA arena, and that certainly boosts UL's athletic revenue.

Oh that's right they're not. The city is paying for this stuff, but I know it's a popular UK fan defense to say something like this. If the payments can't be made, its up to the city to resolve the issues which they have been if you've kept up with it. None of it is falling in the state's hands, it's resolved at the city level. State did nothing except rubber stamp it, they sure haven't contributed a damn bit of money.

The proposal, required the arena officials to exhaust other revenue sources, such as naming rights and luxury suite sales, before asking the metro government to pay more than its minimum pledge. The minimum pledge is $206 million towards the construction of the arena in annual installments between 2010 and 2039. Under the deal, the Louisville Arena Authority can ask the local government for up to $3.5 million more a year to cover the debt only if at least five other sources are drained. If the Louisville Arena Authority has to use additional city funds for two straight years, the Louisville Metro Council has the right to audit the arena's revenues.

And U of L's athletic revenue was already high IN Freedom Hall.

 

[jakncoke]

Whats up with New Orleans? So many away games.

 

[Seth C]

Please stop acting like uconn is any kind of a slouch compared to Louisville. It's ridiculous.

Plus UCONN isn't a commuter school.

 

[TheNatural]

Plus UCONN isn't a commuter school.

Unless it's players going to class, then it's commuter and optional.

 

[iamblades]

Oh that's right they're not. The city is paying for this stuff, but I know it's a popular UK fan defense to say something like this. If the payments can't be made, its up to the city to resolve the issues which they have been if you've kept up with it. None of it is falling in the state's hands, it's resolved at the city level. State did nothing except rubber stamp it, they sure haven't contributed a damn bit of money.



And U of L's athletic revenue was already high IN Freedom Hall.

Who's name is the bond actually issued in? What happens if there is more than $3.5 million in annual debt?

Again, it's all irrelevant anyway. No other school in the nation has that kind of arena deal, which is the whole point.

Sure, UL's revenues were high in Freedom Hall, but they went from top 40 to top 20 for a reason.

 

[NewLib]

Honestly as a Kentucky fan I hope that Louisville gets into the ACC. Louisville being relevant helps Kentucky as it makes the games they play more important. Also it's good for the state

 

[iamblades]

Honestly as a Kentucky fan I hope that Louisville gets into the ACC. Louisville being relevant helps Kentucky as it makes the games they play more important. Also it's good for the state

Agreed.

Hell I went to UL, I have no ill will against them.

 

[TheNatural]

Who's name is the bond actually issued in? What happens if there is more than $3.5 million in annual debt?

Again, it's all irrelevant anyway. No other school in the nation has that kind of arena deal, which is the whole point.

Sure, UL's revenues were high in Freedom Hall, but they went from top 40 to top 20 for a reason.

They're going to charge a surcharge on ticket sales or concessions, which is what's been talked about. Somehow, someway, it will get paid for with something at ground level in the arena or around it. Barring the city itself declaring bankruptcy or something, none of this is going to hit the state level. When the state has to pay actual money to fund it, I'll say they contributed something.

And yes, the arena deal is great - but the school also raised the money for 13,000 more seats in the football stadium. Revenue has been on the steady rise for a while now.

 

[cashman]

Aggie getting blown out by St. Louis :jnc

 

[Amory]

Unless it's players going to class, then it's commuter and optional.

Uconn ranked #63 overall in the 2013 US News and World Reports best colleges, acceptance rate of 47%. Louisville ranked #160 with a 72.7% acceptance rate.

You cite baseball, soccer, and women's volleyball rankings, then act as if men's basketball APR 4 years ago is indicative of the academic performance of all student athletes.

 

[Elfforkusu]

The question I have is, if it's essentially a race to 16 teams, why doesn't the ACC just take both UConn and Louisville and then just look to add another team down the line? I mean it would mean less money for each team in the short term, but probably more stability in the long term.

Plus it would essentially mercy-kill the Big East, which just needs to happen at this point.

This is the key. These conferences are all after money, yes, but stable money.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

In other news from the Big East:

Boise State, San Diego State and BYU have had conversations with Mountain West membership about the possibility of returning to the league, sources told ESPN.

These talks originated after last week's decision in Denver by the BCS commissioners awarded an automatic access bowl berth to the highest rated champion to the "Group of Five" conferences. That decision, in essence, put the Mountain West on equal footing as far as playoff access with the Big East starting in 2014.

Sources said Monday those talks are expected to bring on greater significance after Maryland announced it was leaving the ACC for the Big Ten. ESPN reported Rutgers will announce it's leaving the Big East on Tuesday so the Big East will lose Rutgers and then potentially either UConn or Louisville to the ACC.
To read the rest of Brett McMurphy's story, click here.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ztecs-byu-cougars-talk-mwc-return-sources-say

Turn out the lights, that party is over.

 

[TheNatural]

Honestly as a Kentucky fan I hope that Louisville gets into the ACC. Louisville being relevant helps Kentucky as it makes the games they play more important. Also it's good for the state

Well it's nice to say that, it's one thing to root against a school winning, it's another to root they get money constrained from a conference. That's not good for anyone. Personally, I would love to see Western somehow get into C-USA or an equivalent, somehow, and boost their own revenues.

We've been about as responsible with our budget and revenue as anyone in the country, that's why it annoys me. Maryland and Rutgers are getting the sports equivalent of the auto industry bailout, and U of L is building up facilities with a lot of fundraising and no help, so it's frustrating.

 

[TheNatural]

Uconn ranked #63 overall in the 2013 US News and World Reports best colleges, acceptance rate of 47%. Louisville ranked #160 with a 72.7% acceptance rate.

You cite baseball, soccer, and women's volleyball rankings, then act as if men's basketball APR 4 years ago is indicative of the academic performance of all student athletes.

You just cited academics in a sports thread, that says it all.

I didn't say all student athletes, but its obvious Calhoun played fast and loose with both the rules and getting his players to class.

 

[Amory]

You just cited academics in a sports thread, that says it all.

I didn't say all student athletes, but its obvious Calhoun played fast and loose with both the rules and getting his players to class.

Well I cited sports rankings too, but you seemed to ignore them.

Considering we're talking about 18-20 year old dudes, I'm guessing Calhoun didn't see it as his responsibility to get them to class. I'm sure it was part of team rules that they had to go, but he can't exactly be expected to walk them there.

 

[iamblades]

fucla looks awful..

 

[TheNatural]

Well I cited sports rankings too, but you seemed to ignore them.

Considering we're talking about 18-20 year old dudes, I'm guessing Calhoun didn't see it as his responsibility to get them to class. I'm sure it was part of team rules that they had to go, but he can't exactly be expected to walk them there.

We'll see dude, my basic point is as a purely athletic move with the state of the two programs right now on November 19, 2012 in the two major sports who could argue that we're head and shoulders above? Calhoun is gone and there's uncertainty around your basketball program now and football is horrible.

Tell you what though, winner take all Saturday, we play you in football. I'll even spot you 14 points.

 

[truly101]

fucla looks awful..

I'm so glad Tony Parker didn't pick us.

 

[Amory]

Tell you what though, winner take all Saturday, we play you in football. I'll even spot you 14 points.

Bet on chandler whitmer's arm? You must think im crazy...

 

[Branduil]

Howland is going to get fired.

 

[Karakand]

One can only hope.

 

[Branduil]

One can only hope.

It's inevitable if he fails with the #1 recruiting class.

What's really wishful thinking is that Dan Guerrero will ever be held accountable for his continuous and uninterrupted incompetence. Even if Mora turns out well that was more dumb luck than anything else, emphasis on the dumb.

 

[cashman]

Texas looks awful so far

 

[truly101]

K thinks the ACC could be fucked.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/19/Coach-Krzyzewski-Maryland/index.html

Look, this is all motivated by money, football, and bigtime athletics. Fuck book learnin' and just take Louisville.

 

[TheNatural]

K thinks the ACC could be fucked.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/19/Coach-Krzyzewski-Maryland/index.html

Look, this is all motivated by money, football, and bigtime athletics. Fuck book learnin' and just take Louisville.

Basketball wise you're far from fucked. Well outside of Notre Dame, you're going to get all the 40 point games you can handle.

 

[Amory]

K thinks the ACC could be fucked.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/19/Coach-Krzyzewski-Maryland/index.html

Look, this is all motivated by money, football, and bigtime athletics. Fuck book learnin' and just take Louisville.

Louisville is having a great year this year in football. But if you look at the recent years past...

2011: 7-6
2010: 7-6
2009: 4-8
2008: 5-7
etc etc and this is in the weak-ass Big East.

Considering it's always about "what have you done for me lately?" Louisville is the best pure football choice, but if you're hoping for a football savior out of UConn and Louisville, you're fucked either way.

 

[TheNatural]

Louisville is having a great year this year in football. But if you look at the recent years past...

2011: 7-6
2010: 7-6
2009: 4-8
2008: 5-7
etc etc and this is in the weak-ass Big East.

Considering it's always about "what have you done for me lately?" Louisville is the best pure football choice, but if you're hoping for a football savior out of UConn and Louisville, you're fucked either way.

That was the Kragthorpe debacle dude. We're 9-1 this year with a very small senior class and everyone returning. Strong has things going now.

 

[Amory]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off when the ACC just says screw it and takes Cincinnati

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Duke to SEC confirmed.

 

[Karakand]

It's inevitable if he fails with the #1 recruiting class.

What's really wishful thinking is that Dan Guerrero will ever be held accountable for his continuous and uninterrupted incompetence. Even if Mora turns out well that was more dumb luck than anything else, emphasis on the dumb.

I really don't know, a season like 09/10 should have been an instant shitcan at a program with something resembling standards.

DG is a consummate bureaucrat and won't go anywhere as long as Gene Block is chancellor unless there's some huge NCAA violation. Very much the blue state public education system employee stereotype.

 

[Branduil]

I really don't know, a season like 09/10 should have been an instant shitcan at a program with something resembling standards.

DG is a consummate bureaucrat and won't go anywhere as long as Gene Block is chancellor unless there's some huge NCAA violation. Very much the blue state public education system employee stereotype.

I hope those rumors about Guerrero getting a job offer from the NCAA eventually are actually true.

 

[giga]

K thinks the ACC could be fucked.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/19/Coach-Krzyzewski-Maryland/index.html

Look, this is all motivated by money, football, and bigtime athletics. Fuck book learnin' and just take Louisville.

Fuck that. I'd rather take Georgetown. We will always suck at football. Would rather stress academics and basketball than get another shitty school like Miami.

 

[Draxal]

Fuck that. I'd rather take Georgetown. We will always suck at football. Would rather stress academics and basketball than get another shitty school like Miami.

You don't want to piss of FSU/Clemson right now, they split then both Techs are gone, along with NC state.

If tobacco road is smart louisville's the choice, if it's not they'll take Uconn.

 

[perfectchaos007]

We're getting our asses kicked by Chaminade. Gonna be a fun season

 

[cashman]

Texas looks like a middle school team

 

[perfectchaos007]

Texas looks like a middle school team

No rhythm, no consistency, no cohesiveness, and seemingly no sense of urgency.

 

[Karakand]

I hope those rumors about Guerrero getting a job offer from the NCAA eventually are actually true.

He is very chummy with them...