Randolph Freelander
Member
I want Duke to drop down to FCS. At least it is somewhat sensible down there.
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NCAA Men's College Basketball 2012-2013 Season |OT|
- Thread starter thefro
- Start date
Randolph Freelander
Member
That only compounds the error.
I don't think its so much chemistry issues, but we just don't have any clear leadership on the floor. Brown isn't an emotional guy, Leslie is still a head case, and Howell is just dumb (still picking up fouls 60 feet from the basket). Lowe's recruits were basically talented guys that weren't heavily recruited by top teams because of mental issues, Ryan Harrow being the prime example. OK State punched us in the mouth early, and our veterans mentally checked out of the game at that point.
Gott's recruits, on the other hand, never quit playing hard and were trying to pick their teammates up. Purvis was our best player last night and the only one to show any real leadership. That can't come from a freshman though. Our upperclassmen have to step it up or we'll have performances like this all year long.
All of CBB is dying to be honest. I think some of the ACC diehards don't see that. If the league was what it was in the 80's and 90's even the early prts of the 2000s, then it could survive with basketball. Now your best plays bolt after 1 average season and as an entertainment product, its really bad.
If the ACC does dissolve, Duke should drop down to the FCS in football. They can't support their football team as it is and supposedly no conference wants them. Join the Ivy or Patriot in football and go independent in basketball, or reform the Big East back to its original basketball only roots.
Randolph Freelander
Member
It's true, though. Between a watering down of talent thanks to NBA overexpansion and the watering down of rivalries thanks to conference overexpansion, college basketball just isn't as interesting to watch.
It will be interesting to see just how expansion has worked out in a few years. These geographically expansive megaconferences are not going to be cheap to maintain. I wonder if these schools and conferences will ever be satisfied. Grow to increase revenue. See costs increase. Grow again.
LegendofJoe
Member
TV dollars are what ruined college sports. The blame should be placed there and only there. The decision to let conferences control the money was the beginning of the end. It started a race to the bottom tv cash grab competition between the conferences. We need to go back to the way it used to be and split tv money among all the schools in FBS.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Sorry, Big East. :/
Amory
Member
I was all excited too! And now people are already doing an autopsy on the ACC.
Huskies can't seem to win lol
The B1G's doing pretty well in CBB, actually. Granted it doesn't drive the gravy train for the conference but it's probably as strong in basketball right now as its been since the late 80s/early 90s thanks to the BTN money allowing the B1G schools to spend tons of money on facilities and coaches.
BaltimoreLarry
Member
If UMD had gotten the Harrison brothers, I wouldn't have given a shit if we moved.
Wood has the leadership skills, but not the player skills outside of his stroke- he really should be the 6th man. You're absolutely right about the leadership, but Leslie can sometimes be the second coming of Julius Hodge out there when he's motivated, he just loses it sometimes. Hopefully Gott can set him straight- I think some of the issue there is the freshmen and Leslie not used to having to share so much. (I don't think it's that he doesn't want to share, he just doesn't know how- Leslie's a head case, not intentionally selfish)
And yeah, Duke should probably drop football if the ACC goes bye-bye, they won't make money on it without a big TV contract. The Holes and State will end up OK, though I suspect one will end up in Big XII the other in SEC.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I wonder if the Big 12 is as stable as they let on. It wasn't that long ago that they were also teetering on the edge. If this sparks further gamesmanship between the conferences, where do you think the PAC 12 is going to look? Add the SEC and Big Ten, and that conference could be plucked bare.
Amory
Member
Considering it looks like all the major conferences want to get to 16 teams, I wish they'd just do it and get it over with. It's complete bullshit that they're basically holding schools hostage while they speculate who's going to be the next to be poached.
Reminds me of a game of Risk.
Reminds me of a game of Risk.
Big 12 is a goner if Texas decides to leave at some point, and they're the biggest prize left.
The Big 12 is completely stable now.
Every school signed a grant of rights this year.
http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?storyId=8346345
Its not facilities or coaches, its star power, thats whats in decline. Might be crazy coming from a Duke fan but overall the quality of play for most of the major conference teams is down. Good players bold usually after one year so the team appeal is in decline to the casual fan. I'll be honest, if our team wasn't so despised on a national level that people didn't want to tune in to see us maybe lose, we'd be in deep shit.
EDIT: Duke doesn't need to drop football, they just need to compete at a level where they can be successful. No reason they can't beat Harvard or Princeton.
On the other hand, we need those stadium renovations greenlit for after next season to happen NOW!
Randolph Freelander
Member
Wouldn't be relevant if the entity the rights were granted to didn't exist. Also, see Maryland. They seem confident they won't have to abide by the ACC's 50 million dollar buyout. These things can be negotiated and/or challenged in court.
Texas likes being the dominant force in the Big 12. They get conference TV money and Longhorn Network money, plus they get to boss the rest of the conference around and benefit from arrangements like the new Big 12/SEC Sugar Bowl.
Elfforkusu
Member
Welcome to the B1G, UMD fans. I will now be rooting for you to troll the rest of the ACC over the next two seasons. Tears! Bloodshed!
Below that, though, you have the same quality of veteran teams as before. They just haven't been good enough to win over the super NBA-ers in training the last couple years.
I don't think quality of play is really down. The NBA age limit skewed things in favor of elite talent (and the simpler offense you can play as a result), which has been a detriment at the top end. The best teams aren't all that skilled. They're just head and shoulders quicker, stronger, faster, and winning on the measurables.
Below that, though, you have the same quality of veteran teams as before. They just haven't been good enough to win over the super NBA-ers in training the last couple years.
NCAA hearing Perea & Jurkin's NCAA appeals tomorrow morning, so we could see both IU & UCLA at close to full strength tomorrow night (assuming both win tonight as expected). Should be a fantastic game.
Also, 5:30 on ESPNU is the first Indiana game Bobby Knight calls at ESPN, should be interesting.
Also, 5:30 on ESPNU is the first Indiana game Bobby Knight calls at ESPN, should be interesting.
Champions Bowl vs Orange bowl is advantage Big XII. The ACC is still relevant, FSU was one bonehead half away from being #1 in the country right now, but it's the least relevant of the big 5.
Any undefeated ACC team should make the 4-team playoff. There's enough decent teams in the ACC to guarantee that.
As for the Pac 12, they have schools out west to raid if they need to raise numbers. If the Big XII raids the ACC it's over though. NCSU and VT need to talk to Clemson and FSU to make sure things end up a package deal, though I could see the SEC taking UNC and NCSU over UVA/VT.
A faculty member at UNC went public about the scandal.
I would make a disparaging comment about the NCAA but really there is no need to anymore.
I would make a disparaging comment about the NCAA but really there is no need to anymore.
I don't believe this chick. Sounds like someone with an ax to grind. Until she gives some concrete evidence, she can go to hell.
Honestly this sounds like your standard ad hominem attack. "She has an axe to grind so she can't be trusted". Whether she has a bias or not has no affect on the the truth or falsity of her claim. But hey if you can't refute a persons argument.. just try to undermine their credibility...
I would agree with the evidence comment. I would say she feels fairly confident in her claims seeing as she made them to the university's attorney's during the investigation and is now doing it in the public media.
On that note from the article
I think that quote clearly shows she is irrational and can't be trusted....
The amount of rationalization by UNC fans, despite already admitting there was academic fraud, it's borderline amazing.
All she needs to do is produce cold, hard evidence. Until then, it's all circumstantial, much like Cal's shady recruiting tactics.
Just wait til FSU and Louisville go to the Big 12
If Maryland can pay up the exit fee to the B1G then why can't FSU move to the Big 12? I would like the Big 12 to grow to 12.
TheNatural
My Member!
Georgia is up 30-29 on #1 Indiana at half.
I agree she needs to produce evidence. But her story fits in with the evidence we already have on this case. So there is already evidence that supports her general claims. But I agree she does need to produce specific evidence to back up her specific claims.
ugh, still at work and the damn game is blacked out on Watch ESPN
bucknuticus
Member
it's hilarious. we almost look like duke.
except were still going inside.
our guards look really aggressive this game too.
our passing and spacing is gorgeous too.
jimmy dykes is insufferable tho.
msst is good practice tho. they've thrown like 4 different defense at us lol.
Grover Cleveland
Member
I can't say I'm too terribly broken up over Maryland's betrayal.
I have to agree. You'll have to bring something a lot stronger than "Athlete couldn't write a paper, therefore they cheated" to prove some sort of systematic university-wide conspiracy of silence like she's alleging.
I have to agree. You'll have to bring something a lot stronger than "Athlete couldn't write a paper, therefore they cheated" to prove some sort of systematic university-wide conspiracy of silence like she's alleging.
Played like crap for about 30 minutes, then finally started hitting some shots.
Also Zeller being really sick never is good
Amory
Member
I'm pretty convinced right now that Louisville's gonna end up in the ACC and UConn is gonna be left out in the cold again. Seems like UL's making a big push because FSU and the other football schools don't want us at all.
I'm calling it, we're gonna get shafted.
If I were a Louisville fan, I wouldn't even want to go to the ACC. Seems like the Big 12 is gonna be an option for them, which seems like a much more stable conference right now.
I'm calling it, we're gonna get shafted.
If I were a Louisville fan, I wouldn't even want to go to the ACC. Seems like the Big 12 is gonna be an option for them, which seems like a much more stable conference right now.
TheNatural
My Member!
Except it's not, we've been waiting forever.
And no offense, what does it really matter if UCONN goes to the ACC anyway? Outside of maybe Duke or Wake, UCONN would have the smallest fanbase for football there is only having been FBS for less than a decade.
If UCONN stays in the Big East, basketball wise it's really not much worse off. UCONN is right there with all the basketball only squads with a lot of long time opponents like GTown, Nova, Seton Hall, etc. And no one there gives a fuck about football, so no harm, no foul.
I don't know if I'd call the big 12 stable. It is better off financially because it has bigger national football programs, but I don't think it will ever be stable long term as long as it's being run as Texas's private fiefdom.
In terms of stability and power, I'd say it's the SEC, followed by the B1G, then a largish gap back to the Big 12. The ACC has decent market presence, they just don't have the lucrative football revenue of the other 3.
I dunno where Louisville ends up.
Amory
Member
We want to be with Pitt and Syracuse, not to mention UNC and Duke when it comes to basketball. Plus there's really no telling what the Big East is gonna look like at any given time, since schools commit and then decommit to the conference within a few months. Boise State and SDSU are already looking at backing out. The ACC is probably about to have problems of its own, but anything is better than staying where we are.
And it's not that we don't care about football, we just really haven't had a team we could get behind. Even the team that made the Fiesta Bowl was ugly as hell, and we haven't had a legitimate quarterback since Dan Orlovsky. Also remember that the FBS program isn't even a decade old yet.
Randolph Freelander
Member
PAC-12 is pretty stable, too. They have no competition.
If I'm the ACC and making a football move, I'm taking Louisville. I don't know that it keeps Florida State and Clemson completely happy, but happier than taking UConn, probably.
But dadgummit, Florida State and Clemson have only themselves to blame. Sure, they're both good this year, but FSU fell off the map compared to where they were in the 90s. Clemson hadn't won a conference championship (before last year) since before Florida State joined the conference! And they weren't all that relevant during that time. If them 2 had been playing up to their own lofty standards, the ACC would have been a far more attractive football brand and could therefore generate some more football revenue. Yes, Virginia Tech is having a down year now, but they have been carrying the league the entire time they've been in it. Georgia Tech, you're not happy, either? Then why are you running a gimmick offense that nobody wants to play in and that everybody can figure out if they've got more than a week to prepare for it? It wasn't that long ago that you, too, were relevant in football. Want more football revenue? Start winning again!
The ACC teams looking for an eject switch should look in the mirror. Take some pride. If they could actually beat SEC and Big 12 teams (or even Big East teams!) in non-conference and bowl games, they might not have to look to join those conferences. The ACC could stand on its own.
And I didn't even mention Miami.
If I'm the ACC and making a football move, I'm taking Louisville. I don't know that it keeps Florida State and Clemson completely happy, but happier than taking UConn, probably.
But dadgummit, Florida State and Clemson have only themselves to blame. Sure, they're both good this year, but FSU fell off the map compared to where they were in the 90s. Clemson hadn't won a conference championship (before last year) since before Florida State joined the conference! And they weren't all that relevant during that time. If them 2 had been playing up to their own lofty standards, the ACC would have been a far more attractive football brand and could therefore generate some more football revenue. Yes, Virginia Tech is having a down year now, but they have been carrying the league the entire time they've been in it. Georgia Tech, you're not happy, either? Then why are you running a gimmick offense that nobody wants to play in and that everybody can figure out if they've got more than a week to prepare for it? It wasn't that long ago that you, too, were relevant in football. Want more football revenue? Start winning again!
The ACC teams looking for an eject switch should look in the mirror. Take some pride. If they could actually beat SEC and Big 12 teams (or even Big East teams!) in non-conference and bowl games, they might not have to look to join those conferences. The ACC could stand on its own.
And I didn't even mention Miami.
TheNatural
My Member!
That's fine, I understand everyone wants a better conference and more money for their University - but it gets old when we constantly get snubbed when we have better overall athletic department performance than most programs in conferences we're not getting invited to.
We deserve the $15-$20 mil a year more from a better conference because we've worked our asses off for us. Our fans, our AD, getting donors and support and being a top athletic revenue school with absolutely zero help from the state government OR conference BCS/TV allotment.
The spot should go to the program that's actually dedicated itself to getting better in every single aspect of athletics, not one that lost nearly $3 million dollars in wasted tickets for their biggest game in history like UCONN did in the Fiesta Bowl. It's a money sink there.
If the ACC wants to give UCONN the Notre Dame deal and smaller 'all sports' cut, I would have no problem with it. It pisses me off that a school that doesn't even support its football program is even being discussed over us right now though. But then again, this has been based all off TV market and location, so the ACC is either going to go with the trend of that, or change it up for once and invite us based on performance, revenue, and fan support.
TheNatural
My Member!
Hell football, basketball, baseball, anything. We don't have the location, TV market, or "academics" of UCONN and that's the only difference right now. We're fucked by uncontrollable circumstances while others thrive on it. Maryland and Rutgers are getting the equivalent of a bail out based on location when their athletic department revenue and support wise have been atrocious.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Yes, but how is your women's basketball team? That could be the dealbreaker.