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NCAA Men's College Basketball 2012-2013 Season |OT|

T

TJ Verboten

Member
Vyrance said:
Come on now, I know you think the B1G is all mighty, but thats a lame excuse for discrediting Miami's win against MSU.
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Miami's win against MSU at home was a great win for them. It announced to the college basketball world that Miami has a quality team this season, that they are someone to watch this year in the ACC. They outcompeted Michigan State, had a great 5 minute stretch defensively in the 2nd half where they shut Sparty down, so I do give them credit. They earned the win.

Where I am looking at the game is more from the perspective of motivation. MSU is a program that is been there, done that. MSU playing at the time, unranked Miami, where's the juice for the team? Normally MSU would play Duke or North Carolina, who would certainly have them emotionally up for the game. Point is, you have 18-22 yr old guys, and watching that game, it looked to me like MSU was playing in 3rd gear, they they underestimated Miami and how tough they were. So kudos to Miami, they deservedly won the game.

What have the teams done since then? Both have gotten better, but I would argue MSU has gotten significantly better. MSU was kind of a mess in the non conference, outside of their win against Kansas. They really struggled to score....Izzo was trying to figure out how much to play Harris, Trice...Dawson coming back from the knee injury....Appling still figuring out how to man the point guard spot. Payne inconsistent, etc.

But as Izzo teams typically do, they've gotten a lot better as the season has gone in. You watch how they've played in B1G games, and they've been as impressive as about any team in the country, in the most difficult league. Appling has been much better picking his spots, Harris is lighting it up more and getting more confident, Payne is stepping out and expanding his range occasionally, Valentine, Trice, even Costello for a few minutes. So their bench has gotten a bit better.

MSU is 12th in Pomeroy, 19th in adjusted O, 13th in adjusted D.

Miami is 10th in Pomeroy, 31 in adjusted O, 4th in adjusted D. They can play excellent defense, no question. Durand Scott can be quite the player, Larkin runs the show well, bunch of seniors, again Larranaga is a good coach.
I think they are a good team, that's having a great season, but the more I watch them, the more holes I see.

Look at the respective competition - B1G has 6 teams in the top 14 of Pomeroy's rankings
2 - IU (MSU lost by 5 on the road in one of the best played games of the season)
5 - Michigan (MSU dominated by 23 at home, Izzo said best game his team had played in 3 yrs)
9 - Wisconsin (MSU won by 2 at the Kohl Center, place where Bo's teams are extremely difficult to beat)
12 - MSU
13 - OSU (MSU beat them by 3 at home)
14 - Minnesota (split with Minnesota)
27 - Illinois (beat them at home by 5)

ACC
8 - Duke (Miami crushed Duke by 27. Impressive yes. Having said that, as has been said ad nauseum, Duke is not a contender without Ryan Kelly. Kelly stretches the floor with his 3 pt shooting, sets good screens, gives Plumlee more room down low, plays effective defense, he's not a great player certainly, but he is a good one, he seems to make Duke whole. Duke doesn't have much of a bench to begin with. Kelly is their elixir. With a healthy Kelly, Duke is legit, and is a Final Four contender, see their impressive wins in the non conference. W/out Kelly, Duke can be beaten by Lehigh, Maryland, almost BC.)
10 - Miami
19 - Virginia (who Miami hasn't played yet, this will be an interesting game).
38 - UNC (Miami won at UNC and then crushed them at home).
43 - NC St. (Miami won on a tip in at the buzzer at NC St.).

Point being - MSU has beaten a higher caliber of opposition since conference play started. Also the eye test.......MSU looks significantly more impressive when I watch them play. Miami is a good team. They will earn their 1 seed. Perhaps D1 is down a bit this yr (though I'd argue Indiana and Florida are superior, superior teams that would be right up there in previous yrs).
But to me, Miami looks like a 4/5 seed in terms of how good they are. Again, nice story. But they look eminently beatable to me in the tournament.

For the record....I'm an IU fan (been one since the Calbert Cheaney days, still think to this day if Alan Henderson hadn't blown out his knee in 1993 (IU was no. 1 at the time)....that IU would have won it all. They would have beaten the overachieving Donald Williams/Eric Montross UNC team in the semis.....and they'd have nipped the Fab Five in the final (IU had won both games in the reg season, first one in Ann Arbor when Henderson blocked Webber at the buzzer, still one of the best college games I've ever seen...second one in Bloomington).
 
V

Vyrance

Member
TJ Verboten said:
A lot of good points
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Great analysis man. Can't really argue with any of that. Yea I believe MSU is one of the best out there, so it was a real gem for us to have a win over them with how well they're playing now. I'm expecting Virginia to be a hard one for us even though we just had that horrible Clemson game.

It's nice to see Indiana back on top of things btw!
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
Grover Cleveland said:
New AP poll is out:

Indiana (43), Miami (20), Gonzaga (2), Michigan State, Florida

Duke, Michigan, Syracuse, Kansas, Louisville

are the top ten.

P.S. RIP to Phil Henderson, the man still in possession of Alonzo Mourning's soul.



EDIT: Forgot that the ACC has the ability to option out of Greensboro for the next three years. Still, would doubt it for 2014, maybe 2015.
Click to expand...

Gonzaga now tied for the highest they've ever been in a AP
 
T

TJ Verboten

Member
Vyrance said:
Great analysis man. Can't really argue with any of that. Yea I believe MSU is one of the best out there, so it was a real gem for us to have a win over them with how well they're playing now. I'm expecting Virginia to be a hard one for us even though we just had that horrible Clemson game.

It's nice to see Indiana back on top of things btw!
Click to expand...

Thanks, it's been a long time coming for IU. Outside of the 2002 run to the Final Four, IU hasn't been consistently elite since the first half of the 90s. Finally feels like with Crean, they are back to being a perennial power.

My biggest hope is for IU to be healthy come tournament time......I'll be very disappointed if they get knocked out of the tournament....but at least if they are healthy, I can say, well they had their shot. Scott May breaking his arm in 75, Henderson's knee in 93, Coverdale's ankle in 02', I dont want to play what if with this group after the season.
I want this team to at least have its top 6 healthy for this stretch run. Should be fun.
 
J

jakncoke

Banned
Notre Dame forgot there was a game today.

edit; I wanna see how long it takes them to get a fg.
edit; Dejuan Blair was such a fucking beast, wish he stayed all 4 :(
edit; holy shit ND cant buy a basket
edit 9 min 14 seconds to 1st basket
edit at the under 8 min timeout, notre dame is shooting 5.6%
edit; oh ffs
edit; motherfucking bitches jesus christ
edit fucking hell it was 17-3 a couple min ago now its nearly even -__-
ari-gold-o.gif

edit; jesus adams
edit; cant believe we only leading by 3 after all the derp that Notre Dame started with -_-
edit
depression.jpg

edit; Adams getting away with the offensive foul lol
edit; lower your head like its football it seems
edit; Down fucking 1 guntohead.gif
edit 28-9 since Brey T :(
edit; This game is mental
edit; Notre Dame nearly has a better shooting pct than us now ffs
edit;
us-capitalism.jpg

HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW
HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS EVEN HAPPEN?!?
I hate life.
 
T

TJ Verboten

Member
I really liked that 09' Pitt team. Fields was clutch, Blair beasted inside, Sam Young.....Scotty Reynolds prevented what could have been a far more compelling semifinal game against 09' UNC. That UNC team was on a mission in the tournament (after botching the E8 against G'town two years prior, then getting destroyed by Kansas in the F4 yr prior)......but I do think Pitt would have given them a tough game. Wish we could have seen that matchup.
 
D

DominoKid

Member
TJ Verboten said:
I really liked that 09' Pitt team. Fields was clutch, Blair beasted inside, Sam Young.....Scotty Reynolds prevented what could have been a far more compelling semifinal game against 09' UNC. That UNC team was on a mission in the tournament (after botching the E8 against G'town two years prior, then getting destroyed by Kansas in the F4 yr prior)......but I do think Pitt would have given them a tough game. Wish we could have seen that matchup.
Click to expand...

we woukd have run you out of the gym too.
 
B

Bowser

Member
DominoKid said:
^LOL i kinda wish i could see that now.

feeling weird about the georgia tech game tonight.
Click to expand...

We're 1-6 @ Ga Tech since 2002, and the only win was by 1 point in in '08 (17-0 #1 UNC with Hans, Green, Lawson, etc @ 7-8 Ga Tech 83-82). So, uh, yeah, I'm not feeling too hot about going to Atlanta either. They seem to have a hex on us there.
 
T

TJ Verboten

Member
Bowser said:
I think TJ's a B1G fan, not a Pitt fan :p But yeah, I don't think anyone was stopping us that year.
Click to expand...

I'm an IU fan..........but yeah, I think it would have been an interesting matchup.
Tempo would be key. Pitt would try to make it a half court, grind it game, UNC the opposite.

That UNC team was explosive offensively + had the better bench so I would have bet on them to win the game....but it would have been fun to see. Much more interesting than the matchup against Nova.
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
I dreamed Iowa was playing Iowa State last night and Iowa was leading 17 - 13 at half. We were watching up in the attic but then Jack Black came in on a skateboard and broke the TV.

:-|
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
TJ Verboten said:
I'm an IU fan..........but yeah, I think it would have been an interesting matchup.
Tempo would be key. Pitt would try to make it a half court, grind it game, UNC the opposite.

That UNC team was explosive offensively + had the better bench so I would have bet on them to win the game....but it would have been fun to see. Much more interesting than the matchup against Nova.
Click to expand...

People also forget that every team UNC faced in the tourney save LSU tried to run with them and thats just fucking dumb. I remember when they played MSU for the championship, and the reporters said that MSU felt they could run high tempo and somehow neutralize UNC's strength. I lol'd and realized then that Izzo was a bit overrated as this X & Os genius everyone says he is.

Now Pitt would have slowed the tempo down and try to frustrate UNC, they had the size to do so. Every Pitt game that year was like 60-56 regardless of who they played or if they won.
 
B

Bowser

Member
truly101 said:
People also forget that every team UNC faced in the tourney save LSU tried to run with them and thats just fucking dumb. I remember when they played MSU for the championship, and the reporters said that MSU felt they could run high tempo and somehow neutralize UNC's strength. I lol'd and realized then that Izzo was a bit overrated as this X & Os genius everyone says he is.

Now Pitt would have slowed the tempo down and try to frustrate UNC, they had the size to do so. Every Pitt game that year was like 60-56 regardless of who they played or if they won.
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They also almost got knocked out by a #16 seed that year, IIRC

edit: quick check and you're wrong about Pitt's game scores. Round 1 they beat East Tennessee State 72-62, Round 2 they beat Oklahoma State 84-76, Elite Eight they lost to Nova 78-76. Only the Sweet 16 game vs Xavier was a low-scoring game (60-55).
 
T

Talon

Member
truly101 said:
People also forget that every team UNC faced in the tourney save LSU tried to run with them and thats just fucking dumb. I remember when they played MSU for the championship, and the reporters said that MSU felt they could run high tempo and somehow neutralize UNC's strength. I lol'd and realized then that Izzo was a bit overrated as this X & Os genius everyone says he is.

Now Pitt would have slowed the tempo down and try to frustrate UNC, they had the size to do so. Every Pitt game that year was like 60-56 regardless of who they played or if they won.
Click to expand...
Size? Blair's all of 6'7". I think McGhee was the only guy in their primary rotation that was taller than Blair.

Pitt liked to run.
 
T

TJ Verboten

Member
Bowser said:
They also almost got knocked out by a #16 seed that year, IIRC

edit: quick check and you're wrong about Pitt's game scores. Round 1 they beat East Tennessee State 72-62, Round 2 they beat Oklahoma State 84-76, Elite Eight they lost to Nova 78-76. Only the Sweet 16 game vs Xavier was a low-scoring game (60-55).
Click to expand...

Using Pomeroy as a reference
UNC - #1 overall, #1 in adjusted O, #16 in adjusted D, #8 in adjusted tempo

PItt - #5 overall, #2 in adjusted O, #35 in adjusted D, #186 in adjusted tempo

UNC avg 90.2 pts per game, Pitt 78.

I think Dixon would have realized that he couldn't out run UNC. Their chance would have been to slow the game down, limit possessions, pound Blair inside, play physical, etc.

Izzo running with UNC was a surprising mistake to make tactically from Izzo, who normally is as good as it gets at making adjustments in March. Was strange too because earlier in the tournament, in the Elite 8 against Louisville, team that liked to run as much as UNC did that year.......Izzo had his team get back in transition everytime.....I dont know if Louisville even had any fast break points in that game. He limited the number of possessions. Used Lucas + Walton to beat the press. Suton hit some big perimeter shots. Was truly a brilliant performance against an allegedly superior team that year. So to see MSU try and run with UNC was surprising.

Fields would have a tough time keeping up with Lawson. Having said that, I think Pitt's wings...Sam Young in particular, were long enough, and had enough strength and athleticism to at least grind Ellington and Green somewhat. Hansbrough/Blair would have been fun to see, foul trouble would be critical. I'd pick UNC to win....but I bet it would have been a pretty great game.
 
T

TJ Verboten

Member
Great pace so far to this game. Oladipo getting in the passing lanes so far. Only truly bad call that Teddy V's (screw him for 92 F4 against Duke) crew has botched was that ball that was clearly off MSU. Hope TV Teddy doesn't want to make this too much about him tonight.
 
W

W1SSY

Member
Oladipo first half line: 9 points (3-of-4 shooting, 1-of-2 FT), four steals, three rebounds, a block and a turnover.
 
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