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[seismologist]

im glad that second screen is there for a map or the game would suck.

That's uncommon for handheld games to have such a big map though.

 

[Mrbob]

Old?

By about a generation

:lol

 

[TekunoRobby]

The game looks decent, nothing amazing but it's very servicable. I hope the game has many winding race tracks so the use of a map screen becomes essential.

I'll pick it up if the gameplay is great.

 

[Shogmaster]

Having N-gage tech is ridiculous to me. regardless if it was 60fps or not(which I really doubt that it is, more like 30 fps I would guess). N-gage was a complete bomb, not just because of the ackward controll, but also because of the sub-par graphics. Hopefully Nintendo doesn't fall victem to the same mistakes.

You guys are making the comparasin way too simplistic. NGage and DS share the same class CPU (ARM 9), but that's about the end of simularities. NGage relies sorely on that ARM9 (running at 104Mhz) to do everything, including calculating and rendering 3D as well as game code and physics. DS's ARM 9 CPU (running at 66Mhz) will have to do far less by itself since there are rumored bevy of support cores in the rendering pipeline (even excluding obvious the ARM 7), and the results is pretty plain if indeed the DS version of the game runs @ 60FPS instead of 20.

Anyways, I still think DS is headed for object failure @ $150 against the $200 PSP, but I think it will do fairly well @ $100! Yeah, it won't make Nintendo any money on the hardware @ $100 (and might even lose them some money), but shit, wasn't the whole point of existance for DS just to slow down the PSP in the first place?

 

[seismologist]

I think the DS is fine at $150 I'm convinced when choosing a handheld people look at the games more than the graphics.

 

[thorns]

Maps in racing games are almost totally useless. No decent driver uses the map while driving. It can't be that hard to learn the track can it? At least it 's useful for seeing where the opponents are.
Second screen = useless for most games IMHO.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think the DS is fine at $150 I'm convinced when choosing a handheld people look at the games more than the graphics.

That's such BS. Think about the public at large and not just the people on this wacky forum. $150 for DS ain't looking kosher against $200 PSP and even $80 GBA SP.

Nintendo should wake up and think long term. PSP has to be slowed way the fuck down, if they want to preserve their handheld supremacy for the long haul. They have to sacrifice DS and price it @ $100 to slow down the adoption of PSP till reinforcements arrive.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Maps in racing games are almost totally useless. No decent driver uses the map while driving. It can't be that hard to learn the track can it? At least it 's useful for seeing where the opponents are.
Second screen = useless for most games IMHO.

Well that's true if the driver completely learns the tracks, but it could be a pretty decent benefit during urban sprawls with many twists and turns. Or like a checkpoint race (in GTA, etc) where a new checkpoint only appears after you cross the last one. It could be pretty useful in those situations.

You shouldn't be so negative on the use of two screens. Of course it's Nintendo's fault if they haven't convinced you but there are some pretty fun examples and the future could yield some fantastic results.

 

[jecclr2003]

Sorry the PSP doesnt have to be worried about being "slowed down". The $200 price point more than handles that. Along with no big name launch titles. (we dont know if the GT4 port wll be done or not)

Your average consumer wont drop $250 on a handheld and game when they could just as easily buy an Xbox or Ps2 and 2 games.

Nintendo has something many people forget about in the handheld genre, longevity. They are the Nike of handheld gaming, they're name is synonymous with portable handheld gaming. I think the first few shipments of the DS will sell out, gimmic second screen or not.

Face the facts, we're an extremely small sect of the game buying public. The casual gamer will take the DS over the PSP, $50 is $50.

If anything battery life will be the death knell for the PSP upon launch, maybe the heat problem if they havent got that fixed either.

If this forum were the general game buying public, sports games or the yearly GTA wouldnt be the top selling games every year, it'd be obscure Japanese-flavored RPGs that bore most people to tears.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I agree, the price difference between the two has definately made the PSP look more appealing. What concerns me though is all the extras you'll have to buy on top of that $200. You'll need to buy a memory card, and probably an extra battery eventually. Then you have to buy a game to play as well. When all is said and done PSP will cost around $300 w/the system, mem card and game. NDS will be around $200 w/system and 1 game. Plus NDS has a better line up so far, but that could change. I hope Nintendo gets aggressive other wise their going to lose the handheld market as well. If I had to pick right now, I would pick NDS for the reasons stated above.

 

[Mrbob]

Well this does look better than Ridge Racer DS, which looks like a Super NES game with the FX chip installed.

 

[Shogmaster]

Sorry the PSP doesnt have to be worried about being "slowed down". The $200 price point more than handles that. Along with no big name launch titles. (we dont know if the GT4 port wll be done or not)

Your average consumer wont drop $250 on a handheld and game when they could just as easily buy an Xbox or Ps2 and 2 games.

Nintendo has something many people forget about in the handheld genre, longevity. They are the Nike of handheld gaming, they're name is synonymous with portable handheld gaming. I think the first few shipments of the DS will sell out, gimmic second screen or not.

Face the facts, we're an extremely small sect of the game buying public. The casual gamer will take the DS over the PSP, $50 is $50.

If anything battery life will be the death knell for the PSP upon launch, maybe the heat problem if they havent got that fixed either.

If this forum were the general game buying public, sports games or the yearly GTA wouldnt be the top selling games every year, it'd be obscure Japanese-flavored RPGs that bore most people to tears.

Letmeguess. Nintendo fan, right?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

As far as the two screens go, I think we'll see some better uses down the road. A cool idea for the two screens in a racer would be to have one screen in first person and the second in third person. Or what if the bottom screen was looking ahead and the top screen was a constant rear view mirror. There's ll kind of ideas they could use, give it some time to see what they can do.

 

[Suerte]

As far as the two screens go, I think we'll see some better uses down the road. A cool idea for the two screens in a racer would be to have one screen in first person and the second in third person. Or what if the bottom screen was looking ahead and the top screen was a constant rear view mirror. There's ll kind of ideas they could use, give it some time to see what they can do.

But aren't they kind of limited in that only one screen can do 3D at a time, right?

 

[seismologist]

That's such BS. Think about the public at large and not just the people on this wacky forum. $150 for DS ain't looking kosher against $200 PSP and even $80 GBA SP.

Nintendo should wake up and think long term. PSP has to be slowed way the fuck down, if they want to preserve their handheld supremacy for the long haul. They have to sacrifice DS and price it @ $100 to slow down the adoption of PSP till reinforcements arrive.

Talk about overreacting? PSP needs to be slowed down, huh? The system already has enough obstacles in terms of bettery life and reliability.
The DS will do fine. I expect the GBA will be phased out over the next year since DS will be getting all the attention.
$200 is way too much for a handheld anyway.

 

[Shogmaster]

Talk about overreacting? PSP needs to be slowed down, huh? The system already has enough obstacles in terms of bettery life and reliability.

Sony fans (read public at large) never cared about such minor quibbles in the past. Against $150 DS, $200 PSP even with 2 hour battery life will steamroll past all competition save the GBA SP.

The DS will do fine.

Based on what incredible evidence?

I expect the GBA will be phased out over the next year since DS will be getting all the attention.
$200 is way too much for a handheld anyway.

And so is $150.

 

[Mrbob]

When people start seeing the capability differences between the DS and PSP I don't think a stylus is gonna hold them back from shelling out 50 more bucks for a vastly more capable portable system.

 

[Shogmaster]

When people start seeing the capability differences between the DS and PSP I don't think a stylus is gonna hold them back from shelling out 50 more bucks for a vastly more capable portable system.

Right on. Stylus is just a distraction in the big scheme of things, just like the DS.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

But aren't they kind of limited in that only one screen can do 3D at a time, right?

No NDS can put 3D on both screens at the same time. Metroid Prime Hunters does it in their cut scenes. It's still kind of early to see what the system is capable of. Metroid is really the only 3D game that's been shown off on what the system can do. Almost every other game we've seen is either a N64 port or is 2D. I hope this isn't the end of 2D games though. From the looks of it, it looks like NDS will have a pretty good variety of both.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

When people start seeing the capability differences between the DS and PSP I don't think a stylus is gonna hold them back from shelling out 50 more bucks for a vastly more capable portable system.

That could go both ways though. Is it really fair to say there's a $50 dollar price difference between the two? When all is said and done, you'll have to buy a memory card and a game to get started on PSP which will bring the price to around $300. For NDS all you'll need is a game, which will bring it to around $200. If PSP games $40 - $50 and NDS games are $30 that's an issue as well. That's not even getting into PSP's battery life. I don't see why they didn't just put in two batteries for PSP. It's really all about the games though and so far I think the DS has a better library. Nintendo should really think about dropping the price though. If they drop the price from $150 to $100 when PSP launches, it will make the DS look bad. The exact same thing happened to GC. When they dropped the price everyones reaction was, "They dropped the price because it wasn't selling well."

 

[seismologist]

When people start seeing the capability differences between the DS and PSP I don't think a stylus is gonna hold them back from shelling out 50 more bucks for a vastly more capable portable system.

The way I look at it I ditch my GBA and upgrade to a DS I'm paying $100 out of pocket.
Thats a pretty big gap from paying $200 for base handheld with no mem card or game.

 

[MrparisSM]

The graphics had nothing to do with the N-Gage not selling.

Speak for yourself. That was *one* of the reasons why I didn't purchase it.

 

[krypt0nian]

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

People really need to stop riding this. Nintendo's last real competition in the handheld world with a handheld that had superior graphcis came out 14 YEARS AGO! Do you honestly think nothing is going to change in 14 years?

 

[MrparisSM]

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

That's because the handheld buyer has never had a decent choice before. The GameGear came very close, but the battery life killed it. And all other major competitors have had some kind of major flaw that killed them. The psp is rechargeable and thus won't face the same fate that the GameGear did(even though the Game Gear was still successful. do your homework). Jesus and stop being so damn sensitive.

 

[snapty00]

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority.

Bullshit. I guess console gamers don't, either, because Atari Jaguar was outsold by both Genesis and Super NES.

I think you're going to be in for a huge surprise when you see all these people buy a PSP mainly because the graphics are so good.

 

[Project Midway]

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

Well there never has been so clearly superior device in the market as PSP is. And it helps its from Sony. Technically PSP and DS are from different generations and even an average consumer can see that.

edit: oops, most of what I said was already said.

 

[Brofist]

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

:lol The handheld buyers don't care about graphics? How do you know, they've only had really one legitimate choice for years now. I'm not saying they are all gonna turn into Sony loving, graphics whores overnight, but you can't make a basis for that statement.

 

[Mrbob]

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

I'm not sure how you can say this. We are forging into unknown brand new territory in the portable arena with the PSP. The only history we have is Nintendo's ability to keep technology stagnant in the portable arena. Also, don't forget about the movie and music capabilities of the portable as well. I am one who wrote off the movie ability as something I thought people would want. However the spectacular sales of the GBA video series by Majesco is making me rethink this stance.

No NDS can put 3D on both screens at the same time.

Which sucks because in a racing game two screens would be great. In the bottom screen you could have the front view of the race and in the top screen you could have the rear view mirror handy. Just one example of technological limitations hindering the capabilities of the DS.

 

[aoi tsuki]

Talk about overreacting? PSP needs to be slowed down, huh? The system already has enough obstacles in terms of bettery life and reliability.
The DS will do fine. I expect the GBA will be phased out over the next year since DS will be getting all the attention.
$200 is way too much for a handheld anyway.

i think $250 would be way too much for a handheld for most people, considering this is a closer match with the $150 DS and the pack-in MP Hunters demo, but the $200 PSP price is what's going up against the $150 DS, and even the $80 SP, which i doubt Nintendo will be dropping any time soon.

While it's true that cutting edge graphics have never been as important in handhelds as they have in consoles, you have to keep in mind the strength of the Playstation brand. Also, the DS faces an uphill battle in showing the value of two screens, one of which is a touchscreen versus the PSP which is one big screen, and rather nice according to reports. If someone walks into a store and just looks at both systems, the PSP will be the winner when it's displaying PS2-style visuals versus the PS-level DS, especially when a realistic game like GT4 comes into play. Things like battery life and overheating only come into play when you actually take the unit home.

i think there's room for both systems but like i said before, it comes down to games and marketing.

Also, don't forget about the movie and music capabilities of the portable as well. I am one who wrote off the movie ability as something I thought people would want. However the spectacular sales of the GBA video series by Majesco is making me rethink this stance.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but those videos are for kids. Adult gamers aren't going to be jumping on Sonic X, Pokemon, or Spongebob. There's been little information on video releases for PSP, which makes me think they're still having trouble getting studios to adopt the format. Doesn't matter early on in the game though. People aren't buying it for video.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Underestimating the competition is Nintendo's weakness. To say that Nintendo knows the handheld market and could not possibly be overthrowned reeks of ignorance. We have only to look at the previous generation to realize this. Nintendo needs to tighten the belt and get DS at $100 ASAP. People haven't cared about graphics in handhelds before because there hasn't been competition this good before. PSP runs circles around the DS from a technological stand point and support fo the PSP is arguably equal, they have all the big publishers in the wagon.

At this time Nintendo is using the whole Touch! marketing to distract people from the fact that there really aren't that many games using the DS' distinct technical characteristic in a compelling fashion ie. touchscreen, stylus. Maps ain't gonna cut it. Nintendo made this thing with two screen. They have to deliver or fall. I see no reason to upgrade my SP at this time. I really hope that Nintendo is holding back for the truly revolutionary stuff but being this close to launch it makes me wonder.

 

[Lord Error]

Wait a sec, wasn't PSP's announced price $185, not $200. How come all of a sudden everyone claims it costs 200?

 

[Mrbob]

^^^

This is a good point. Everyone is just ASSuming PSP will be priced $199 in the states. What if PSP gets launched at $149? I'd love to see the Nintendo fanboys spin that.

 

[SolidSnakex]

^^^

This is a good point. Everyone is just ASSuming PSP will be priced $199 in the states. What if PSP gets launched at $149? I'd love to see the Nintendo fanboys spin that.

That's one thing people are forgetting. Sony has yet to launch a Playstation system in the US at the same or higher price of the Japanese version. They've always been cheaper than their Japanese releases.

 

[snapty00]

To be fair, I think assuming it'll be $199 in the U.S. is reasonable. I can't imagine it being less than that.

However, if it IS $149, Nintendo needs to consider going into healthcare or some other stable industry. A $149 pricetag for the PSP would really be -- for all intents and purposes -- the end of Nintendo's hardware era.

 

[explodet]

I don't think it's a bad assumption. They probably don't want to say $179 or $149 because of the percieved notion that Sony's losing a wad of cash on each unit, and would rather charge $199 instead of the other two. Whether or not that percieved notion is accurate or not, I'm not going into.

But $185 just isn't a psychologically pleasing price point. When has a console or handheld ever been MSRP $185?

 

[Rocket Punch]

Also, can someone tell me how come the DS is $200.00 CND when the US dollar is so low? (loonie high?). It should be $185 CND. No more.

 

[Insertia]

Underestimating the competition is Nintendo's weakness. To say that Nintendo knows the handheld market and could not possibly be overthrowned reeks of ignorance.

IAWTP

 

[Brofist]

One year ago this time the PSP price would have actually translated to $165 US with the dollar being worth more to the yen at that time. It's very possible the PSP sees a $149 price tag, if the rates favor the dollar, and given the trend of Sony charging less for hardware in the states.

 

[snapty00]

150.00 USD United States Dollars = 181.179 CAD Canada Dollars

With that in mind, I'm guessing there might be some taxes/tariffs that might drive the price up a few more dollars. If that's the case, then they can't price it at $179 (without taking a hit, of course). The next psychological price is $199. And even $179 would look awkward for a launch price.

 

[Brofist]

nm, you were talking about the ds

anyway the pricepoint favor Sony, anyway you look at it. The perceived value outweighs any dollar saving of the DS being cheaper.

 

[Insertia]

But $185 just isn't a psychologically pleasing price point. When has a console or handheld ever been MSRP $185?

That's the Japanese price and it's pretty psychologically pleasing to me.

If PSP follows the same trend as Sony's consoles (lower price in the US compared to the rest of the world) I expect PSP to be priced at $169.

 

[snapty00]

Launch prices have usually been in $50 intervals, especially recently. If it's not $149, it's almost always $199. $179 is basically the only midway price, but even that is strange.

 

[Mrbob]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but those videos are for kids. Adult gamers aren't going to be jumping on Sonic X, Pokemon, or Spongebob. There's been little information on video releases for PSP, which makes me think they're still having trouble getting studios to adopt the format. Doesn't matter early on in the game though. People aren't buying it for video.

Well, we don't know yet. I'm not talking about the kiddie stuff for PSP. I'm talking about theatrical movies on a UMD disc.

 

[seismologist]

^^^

This is a good point. Everyone is just ASSuming PSP will be priced $199 in the states. What if PSP gets launched at $149? I'd love to see the Nintendo fanboys spin that.

Well I'm hardly a Nintendo fanboy. In fact I just ditched my Gamecube. The handheld market is a different beast altogether. $199 will help PSP get a foothold. It'll have a certain coolness factor like the PSOne with LCD screen.
The novelty appeal of DS is going to go over well since nobody's ever played games like this before.

Plus I just can't see the typical 9 year old GBA playing age group walking around with PSP in hand.

 

[Mrbob]

The novelty appeal of DS is going to go over well since nobody's ever played games like this before.

Yes, but we must ask: Is this a good thing? Everything I've seen the DS uses with a stylus has been a novelty at best and in most cases the 2nd screen is being used as a map (*yawn*).

 

[belgurdo]

 

[Mr_Furious]

I think the DS is fine at $150 I'm convinced when choosing a handheld people look at the games more than the graphics.

Tell that to 'Joe Casual' who mainly judge games based on graphics.

I love how some are trying to take the rules from the console biz and apply them to the handheld side of things.

The handheld buyer has never cared about graphics superiority. Please leave your graphic whore xbox-me too attitude at the door until you can show me where I'm wrong in my first statement.

Along with what everyone else has already stated I'd only like to add one thing not mentioned (I think): Every publisher is going to fully support the PSP. That's the first time EVER that a non-Nintendo handheld has been able to say that. Make no mistake, PSP's going to cause some serious damage to the world of portables.

 

[explodet]

That's the Japanese price and it's pretty psychologically pleasing to me.

No, the Japanese price is 19800 Yen. You won't see stores in the US charging that.

If PSP follows the same trend as Sony's consoles (lower price in the US compared to the rest of the world) I expect PSP to be priced at $169.

If they do go lower - and please remember I'm not saying they will or they won't - I'm still leaning towards $179.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Jesus Christ you people, any chance you get to turn it into a fanboy war. There has be more people who are positive about both handhelds.