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New Board Gaming |OT2| On Tables, Off Topic

The brilliant, but long dead trading card game Vs. System is being rebooted at GenCon under an LCG distribution model - one box, 400 cards (includes playsets of every card), $50. Upper Deck posted an FAQ about the game today. The game is known for its superhero focus (the first release of the reboot will feature Marvel characters), and intricate, skill-intensive mechanics. As a fan of VS since the day my local card shop got their first shipment, trust me when I say that fans of customizable card games will definitely want to keep their eye on this.

I remember getting a starter set of VS System (Batman and Joker) somewhere in our game closet but I don't really remember much about it. It would be nice to get a good LCG super heroes game. Legendary is alright but it never feel like super-heroes game to us.
 
I personally always thought VS was an awful card game. Only reason it had any success was due to the crazy tourny scene which also involved big cash prizes.
 
I personally always thought VS was an awful card game. Only reason it had any success was due to the crazy tourny scene which also involved big cash prizes.

The tournament support actually killed the game. You can't throw tons of $10Ks at a young game with no established player base. The money dried up, and the pros/competitive players (which were the backbone of the community) went elsewhere. The game had no time to develop a stable community before Upper Deck shoved it out as a big money game without a long term financial plan to support it. My local shop never received any weekly tournament materials, demo materials, etc. There was no focus on grassroots stuff to grow community.

Exact same thing happened with WoW TCG, IIRC.
 
The tournament support actually killed the game. You can't throw tons of $10Ks at a young game with no established player base. The money dried up, and the pros/competitive players (which were the backbone of the community) went elsewhere. The game had no time to develop a stable community before Upper Deck shoved it out as a big money game without a long term financial plan to support it. My local shop never received any weekly tournament materials, demo materials, etc. There was no focus on grassroots stuff to grow community.

Exact same thing happened with WoW TCG, IIRC.

Well, they are doing 10K tourney at this year Gen Con .... I honestly don't remember much about VS system game if it was good or bad.

We did play WoW TCG for a bit also and went to couple of tournaments but the cards in later expansion seems so broken so we stop playing. We still play the Raid Box set from times to times as my brother in law really like it.
 
Well, they are doing 10K tourney at this year Gen Con .... I honestly don't remember much about VS system game if it was good or bad.

We did play WoW TCG for a bit also and went to couple of tournaments but the cards in later expansion seems so broken so we stop playing. We still play the Raid Box set from times to times as my brother in law really like it.

Back then it was multiple 10Ks a year, in addition to multiple pro circuit qualifiers, pro circuits, etc. It was madness. I believe the reboot 10K is merely a kickoff event for the game. Upper Deck has said they're focusing on grassroots stuff this time around.

Personally I think VS is incredible, and I'm sure my old playgroup would agree. Combat is intricate and strategic, and decks are highly themed. It's probably my favorite TCG out of the dozen+ I've played.

I always loved WoW's rule set, but something about the individual cards was always off to me. Upper Deck seemed to have a difficult time balancing things.
 

Karkador

Banned
There was a weird era of TCGs that often used a mechanic of discarding stuff in your deck just to get a random number. I think VS has the same thing?

How am I supposed to build a solid deck when so many of those cards are just going to get burned for what could be accomplished with a dice roll?
 
There was a weird era of TCGs that often used a mechanic of discarding stuff in your deck just to get a random number. I think VS has the same thing?

How am I supposed to build a solid deck when so many of those cards are just going to get burned for what could be accomplished with a dice roll?

It doesn't. The luck factor in VS is relatively minimal.

You may be thinking of the "drawing destiny" mechanic that was popular in Decipher's games. It was used in .hack//ENEMY, Megaman TCG, and others. Also UFS (not Decipher, but still).
 
It doesn't. The luck factor in VS is relatively minimal.

You may be thinking of the "drawing destiny" mechanic that was popular in Decipher's games. It was used in .hack//ENEMY, Megaman TCG, and others. Also UFS (not Decipher, but still).

I did enjoy the destiny draw mechanic as it sort of force you to think about what type of cards to put in your deck. For Decipher Star Wars this was sort balance out by the fact that you can draw and discards a lot of cards per turn actually I am pretty sure you can dump your hand if you want. Decipher was even worst when it come to balance card also doesn't help that they want to stick to their gun of unlimited card per deck rule to set them apart from Magic.
 
Ah yeah, I'm thinking of UFS.

VS has that bottom row of cards that does something...I can't remember what

It's a combination of mana/resources and effect cards. Each card in the row gives you a resource point, and you can also activate cards from the row (which continue to provide resources once activated). Certain cards, such as permanent location cards, can only be activated after being placed in the resource row. So basically any card in your hand can act as a land from Magic, and most cards can be used even after you place them as resources.

There are also two rows of characters - front row and support row. Support row characters can only attack if they have range, and can only be attacked by characters with flight if they are "protected" by another character immediately in front of them. So there's a whole layer to the game with arranging your team's formation to combat what your opponent has, and vice versa. Shit gets intense.

I did enjoy the destiny draw mechanic as it sort of force you to think about what type of cards to put in your deck. For Decipher Star Wars this was sort balance out by the fact that you can draw and discards a lot of cards per turn actually I am pretty sure you can dump your hand if you want. Decipher was even worst when it come to balance card also doesn't help that they want to stick to their gun of unlimited card per deck rule to set them apart from Magic.

Star Wars was a game I never got into. We used to hate it because every other Sunday our local shop would hold tournaments for the game. There would be no table room because it always seemed that a single game of Star Wars took up like a third or more of a good-sized table. We didn't have any room to play :l

But I digress ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

espher

Member
^ I'm actually trying to find my old Star Wars CCG cards, I got an itch to play this weekend. I did find a site that has a decent quality visual spoiler so I might just print up some proxies to see if it's just nostalgia talking or not haha.
 
I kind of want a super hero themed game since all my friends are into it as well as me. I want to know the best one. Doesn't matter what type of game be it card or board. It also doesn't have to be real heroes since I'm interested in Sentinals of the Multiverse.
 
I kind of want a super hero themed game since all my friends are into it as well as me. I want to know the best one. Doesn't matter what type of game be it card or board. It also doesn't have to be real heroes since I'm interested in Sentinals of the Multiverse.

Sentinels is a good buy then. Fun coop game that doesn't require ton of investment and very thematic.

Legendary is good deck builder, the super hero stuff is a little light in theme, but they do a decent job of putting thematic reasons behind the card effects, with some heroes being designed in clever ways actually.

DC deck builder game is pretty meh, very weak theme, simple, and it's focus is a little iffy. Expansions add some better more thematic game modes though.
 
Sentinels is a good buy then. Fun coop game that doesn't require ton of investment and very thematic.

Legendary is good deck builder, the super hero stuff is a little light in theme, but they do a decent job of putting thematic reasons behind the card effects, with some heroes being designed in clever ways actually.

DC deck builder game is pretty meh, very weak theme, simple, and it's focus is a little iffy. Expansions add some better more thematic game modes though.

Legendary for me is the best as Sentinels is way too fiddly for me. It's also impossible to go back to playing that game tabletop after playing the tablet version that keeps track of all the status effects for you.
 

Cerity

Member
Someone in our group bought Dead of Winter yesterday, definitely not a game to try and play by the seat of our pants, the manual is terrible explaining it. We gave up after an hour and a half and so our homework for next weekend in watching that youtube video. Are all of Plaid Hat Games like this?

Then we moved onto Gloom + Unwelcome Guests and our playing pretty much hit critical mass last night. The last round took about 2 and half hours, I went from about to win a -85 about 40 minutes in to 2 of the other players scheming but fucking up and putting me at -155 with 4 of the guests. Ended up losing overall but definitely playing with some iron rules next time but that's going to be awhile.
 

Blizzard

Banned
A local game store had a bunch of demo games available near me today, so I got to try 3 I hadn't played before.

splendor-gamevaynr.jpg

Splendor, 2-4 players
The coolest thing about this game is the heavy poker chip tokens. They are quite satisfying to collect and trade in.

Each player takes turns doing one of four actions. They can pick up tokens (3 of different colors, or 2 of the same color as long as they draw from a stack of 4+ tokens), reserve a card to their hand (so no one can buy it), or buy a card (from the table or their hand).

Each card you buy costs certain gem color combinations, but also gives you a discount for a specific color. This means that eventually, you can start getting cards for free because of your collection. Some cards also give prestige points, and if you get the right combinations you can earn "noble" tiles that also give prestige points. Once a player reaches 15+ points, the game ends once everyone has had an equal number of turns.

The rules are only 2 pages and were pretty easy for 3 people completely new to the game to read and pick up. It seemed like a decent balance between the luck of card deals, and which cards you start collecting, reserving, and planning to buy. A relatively short play time is cool too.

Overall this was a neat game, but $20-30 neat, not $35+ neat. It's on sale for $29 on Amazon right now so I -might- pick it up, but I should probably control my spending since I bought a bunch recently. :p


4331-ad856180t8xbf.jpg

Dead Man's Draw, 2-4 players
One way to understand this game might be to think of it as everyone taking turns playing Blackjack with themselves.

On their turn, each player starts turning over cards from the top of the deck. Each card belongs to a different suit, and each suit has a different effect. For example, a "kraken" card forces you to draw 2 more cards. You can stop after each new card gets drawn and resolved, collecting all the cards for your own "bank". If you keep going and end up with two cards of the same suit, you lose everything that was drawn on that turn, however, aside from certain rules -- for example, an anchor lets you keep everything up to that point even if you bust.

Each player gets two "trait" cards at the start of the game and picks one. That modifies the game rules slightly so each game will be a bit different. There were also some other cards (expansion? special edition?) that provided variants of the game. We played once with normal rules, and once with a special rule that if you went bust, the person on your right got all your cards. That seemed cool.

This game's experience was hindered by the person next to me having HORRIBLE body odor. =( Overall, an interesting game idea for people who like flipping cards, and each game was quick, but even after 2 games it seemed like we ended up checking reference cards a lot to remember what the various trait powers and suit powers mean. If you play 3-4 games you'll probably memorize everything but it could throw some people off. For $20 this game might be decent but I'm personally not an enormous fan of that lucky-card-streak gameplay style.


the-red-dragon-inn-21upsmg.jpg

Red Dragon Inn, 2-4 players (or up to something ridiculous like 16 players if you spend lots of money on expansion packs)
This is yet another relatively quick game with 4 players, maybe 30-60 minutes. Each player picks a character with their own themed deck of cards. Everyone (in the base game) has a set amount of gold, starts with no alcohol, and full fortitude. You are adventurers in the inn, trying to be the last one with gold who hasn't passed out drunk.

Each turn you can trade in cards, then play an action card (it might do something bad to another player, or start a gambling minigame), then add a drink card to someone's stack, then flip your own top drink card. The drink cards are from the base game and range from coffee (lowers alcohol) and water (no effect), to crazy high alcohol content drinks.

If you run out of gold, you're kicked out of the game. If your fortitude and alcohol counters evere meet (you're hurt too much, or your drink too much), you pass out drunk and are kicked out of the game.

I'm not sure how important the gambling minigame is. In our 4-player game, I think everyone passed out drunk before anyone got close to running out of gold.

Different character decks have different focuses. One character might be great at the gambling game, with various ways to cheat. Another might be good at tavern brawls, so they attack other players. Yet another might be good at healing and protecting themselves, but they don't have a good way to avoid drinks or lower their alcohol content.

I ended up buying this after playing and winning a 4-player game, and I might not have bought it had I not tried the demo copy, so kudos to the store for having it out.


41sw9u5eyxlkzu0s.jpg

Antidote, 2-7 players
Lastly, I blind-bought Antidote. They wasn't a demo copy out, so hopefully I haven't made a horrible decision, but it looked kind of neat. I like the idea of a deduction game and I enjoyed classic Clue.
 
Legendary for me is the best as Sentinels is way too fiddly for me. It's also impossible to go back to playing that game tabletop after playing the tablet version that keeps track of all the status effects for you.

Never found it too fiddly, the tokens are so helpful at keeping track of status effects and self explanatory.
 

Karkador

Banned
Today, I played Five Tribes and Impulse.

This is the second play of Five Tribes, and it remained fun. The person who owned the game sleeved the tiles for the game. The slave cards were present, and continue to be one of the weirdest sticking points of that game.


Impulse was even better; we clocked it at a reasonable 1 hr, with a rules explanation and sleeving of cards (that Asmadi Games quality).
 
Never found it too fiddly, the tokens are so helpful at keeping track of status effects and self explanatory.

Needing to pour out an entire bag of different effect tokens that go all over the board is the very definition of fiddly. Yes it's better than just keeping track of it, but that would be nearly impossible. That's why the tablet version is vastly superior. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Legendary is way more accessible.
 
Needing to pour out an entire bag of different effect tokens that go all over the board is the very definition of fiddly. Yes it's better than just keeping track of it, but that would be nearly impossible. That's why the tablet version is vastly superior. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Legendary is way more accessible.
I agree with you it is very fiddly game and they probably could streamline it a bit, that said I am one if those few that really enjoy moving bits and adding tokens. For me it is the entire reason for playing analog games, it's probably why I love dices and shuffling cards and adore games like Arkham Horror, Robinson Crusoe and Mage Knight along with Sentinel.

Legendary is easier once set up but to me its like Ascension/Thunderstone with Marvel characters plaster all over them. I never felt like superheroes when playing Legendary.

^ I'm actually trying to find my old Star Wars CCG cards, I got an itch to play this weekend. I did find a site that has a decent quality visual spoiler so I might just print up some proxies to see if it's just nostalgia talking or not haha.

I found a box full of the SWCCG and my old tackle box. I think it is just nostalgic, don't you remember the rule book and the insane 50 pages FAQ and Glossary? I think toward the end we only play those little cube sealed pack format as the meta got so convoluted.
 
Duplicated post.

Since I have empty space. Sure bring back memory, my friends and I used to drive 2 hours to a tournament every weekend. @xtortionist Sorry I was that guy that took up all your table space, and this game can take up a lot of real estate.

 

Xero

Member
while i like both i agree that i prefer sentinels since, it feels like im actually playing a character, instead of just collecting cards. The only deck builders that dont give me that feel are shadowrun and mage knight really, even though I own a ton of them.
 

zulux21

Member
Legendary is easier once set up but to me its like Ascension/Thunderstone with Marvel characters plaster all over them. I never felt like superheroes when playing Legendary.
.

ehhhhhh I don't think I can agree with that completely. While I agree it never really feels like a group of super heroes, I really wouldn't call it just ascension with marvel characters either.

The addition of a common enemy to beat drastically changes what cards you buy, often letting cards that would be better for you go to someone else that they would be more helpful for as well as at times taking inefficient turns just to keep from losing.

that being said I usually teach people Ascension first as a gateway to the marvel game because it is an expansion of that concept.

actually recently I go DC game -> ascension -> legendary -> sentinals lol.
 
I got to play some awesome cooperative games with some of the people at the local shop today. Flash Point:Fire Rescue was probably the highlight of the day. Everyone was very distinctly locked into their roles, and the prospect of losing any victims (even if it weren't going to cost us the game) was stressing people out. Excellent game and very simple and intuitive.

Ghost Stories is my favorite game and I finally got to play with the White Moon expansion which adds in the villagers as well as a guardian ghost that locks down a ghost space on the board. I really enjoyed the dynamic of saving villagers although it may have added more complexity than it is worth. Getting to place the four moon crystals and cross the streams to murder a bunch of ghosts made us feel powerful in a way that Ghost Stories never allowed you to before. To that end, I think the expansion may have made the game too easy. We coasted through it on the easy setting and may have to ratchet the difficulty up the next time we play.

Lastly, we played 5 or 6 games of Hanabi, which is becoming my group's favorite game. We get whiplash sometimes going back and forth from hating one another to congratulating one another on a great hint or play.

Next time, I'm hoing to get a solid group together for Mage Knight. Another good weekend is coming!
 
Needing to pour out an entire bag of different effect tokens that go all over the board is the very definition of fiddly. Yes it's better than just keeping track of it, but that would be nearly impossible. That's why the tablet version is vastly superior. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Legendary is way more accessible.

We have ours organized in the box so that nothing is dumped out and we quickly just know where the correct token is.

Frankly find Legendary far more fiddly with all the set up and then clean up after process itself of the game. Sentinels you can just shuffle and go there is little to no clean up or set up time to play. Legendary takes quite a bit just to even start the game with all the game building, and clean up is a pain with all the deck separating that has to be done each time.
 
Legendary takes quite a bit just to even start the game with all the game building, and clean up is a pain with all the deck separating that has to be done each time.

We have our Legendary cards organized in a box so we quickly know where the correct decks are. Cleanup takes less than 5 minutes.

This just goes to show that no matter what game you're playing, organization is the key to fast set up and break down.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
I got to play some awesome cooperative games with some of the people at the local shop today. Flash Point:Fire Rescue was probably the highlight of the day. Everyone was very distinctly locked into their roles, and the prospect of losing any victims (even if it weren't going to cost us the game) was stressing people out. Excellent game and very simple and intuitive.

Ghost Stories is my favorite game and I finally got to play with the White Moon expansion which adds in the villagers as well as a guardian ghost that locks down a ghost space on the board. I really enjoyed the dynamic of saving villagers although it may have added more complexity than it is worth. Getting to place the four moon crystals and cross the streams to murder a bunch of ghosts made us feel powerful in a way that Ghost Stories never allowed you to before. To that end, I think the expansion may have made the game too easy. We coasted through it on the easy setting and may have to ratchet the difficulty up the next time we play.

Lastly, we played 5 or 6 games of Hanabi, which is becoming my group's favorite game. We get whiplash sometimes going back and forth from hating one another to congratulating one another on a great hint or play.

Next time, I'm hoing to get a solid group together for Mage Knight. Another good weekend is coming!
I feel pretty similarly about White Moon. Depending on difficulty level and incarnation I don't think it makes the game too easy (does make it easier) but the fiddliness is definitely an issue to the point where it probably just creeps over that not worth it line despite being good (like if it was on the iPad version I'd definitely play with it most of the time -- or maybe even it and Black Secret to balance things).
 

Xero

Member
We have our Legendary cards organized in a box so we quickly know where the correct decks are. Cleanup takes less than 5 minutes.

This just goes to show that no matter what game you're playing, organization is the key to fast set up and break down.

i think everyone has their legendary cards seperated in a box, since the box comes with dividers. He was referring to seperating all the cars back into their appropriate decks, which dividers obviously dont help you with.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Splendor is a good one. The more you play it, the better it gets. Oh and a hint
it's not a engine building game
I wasn't sure whether to be scared when no one commented about the other games I described. :p

any good worker placement games come out lately?
The only one I've played recently was Tzolk'in, with its unique gears, but even that one came out in 2013.
 

SumGamer

Member
I'll be over in Bay Area, SF for a few days. Is there any store I could take a look. Game is usually costing double at home outside USA.
 
I'll be over in Bay Area, SF for a few days. Is there any store I could take a look. Game is usually costing double at home outside USA.

If you are willing to take BART, games of berkley is a good store. Everything is MSRP though. Don't know of any good one in the city itself.
 

Karkador

Banned
I have question for board gaming GAF


What's the most you've spent on a single Kickstarter game? Don't count the times you've ordered multiple copies of a game.
 
We have our Legendary cards organized in a box so we quickly know where the correct decks are. Cleanup takes less than 5 minutes.

This just goes to show that no matter what game you're playing, organization is the key to fast set up and break down.

It always helps, but Legendary is one of most finicky of deck builders out there, in large part to all the piles of mixed decks you will end up having at the end especially. Most deckbuilders are simple and organized, whereas Legendary has you mixing decks and shuffling them, these then get further mixed with all the shared discards so at end you have a bunch of deck separation to do. Nothing is ever as bad as the first time you open a Legendary product and have to sort all those cards, what a mess, but again we were just comparing Legendary to Sentinels.

I have question for board gaming GAF


What's the most you've spent on a single Kickstarter game? Don't count the times you've ordered multiple copies of a game.

$330 on Robotech tactics. Picked up lof of extra figs for that. Yea there was regret
 

Karkador

Banned
$330 on Robotech tactics. Picked up lof of extra figs for that. Yea there was regret


Oh, the question isn't about shame :p Although I guess I'm curious to know if people are more likely to feel regret from a cheap project or an expensive project.

Personally, the most I've spent is $12, and I still regret it a bit.
 

Blizzard

Banned
For my only Kickstarter backing, I spent a fair amount ($50-90) on the Inceptor -> Dream Heist game, and that game turned out to be quite mediocre. I basically wanted it for the briefcase. The briefcase and Inception top are cool, so that's my takeaway from it. :p

A local game shop manager/owner has apparently backed over 100 games for the store, which is cool, and they were smart enough to back out of that one.
 

espher

Member
I found a box full of the SWCCG and my old tackle box. I think it is just nostalgic, don't you remember the rule book and the insane 50 pages FAQ and Glossary? I think toward the end we only play those little cube sealed pack format as the meta got so convoluted.

I didn't play it anywhere near the high end level as my friends and I were mostly into M:tG at the time, and we just picked up a small pool of cards... I do kind of remember that FAQ, though, but coming from M:tG errata, it was never an obstacle. Phasing alone was enough of an errata and rules clarification question generator to make SWCCG seem easymode. ;)

I have question for board gaming GAF


What's the most you've spent on a single Kickstarter game? Don't count the times you've ordered multiple copies of a game.

I want to say it was either Zpocalypse (regret) or Millennium Blades. I think they will both work out to be about a hair under CAD$200. I think I've backed a dozen board game Kickstarters (and a couple of expansions), have yet to play three of them, and am only truly disappointed in the one (it might be better with the errata/fixed rulebook, which I haven't checked out). I backed Gunship and have some regret but that's partially because I haven't played it -- it's apparently better than I am expecting it to be, from what I've read.

Camelot Unchained is far and away my biggest investment but it's not a board game so it doesn't count. ;)

Edit: Actually, Zpocalypse wasn't as much as I remember... still about CAD$150 because I got nailed with duty since they shipped with UPS, ugh.
 
I have question for board gaming GAF


What's the most you've spent on a single Kickstarter game? Don't count the times you've ordered multiple copies of a game.
Almost $300 CAD to piggyback onto another backer's Shadows of Brimstone pledge so that I could get an outlaw level for myself. Only have the base games so far, but there's much more to come. Wish I had the disposable income to go the $600 route for everything, or had even jumped on when it was initially launched..
 

fenners

Member
Thanks, I wouldn't mind taking BART. However, their online catalog seems very limited tho.

GameScape was always my favourite game store in town, though it's been a few years since I've visited for sure. They're on Divisidero, in the city, easy to get to on bus.

A lot of US "brick & mortar" game stores seem to have lousy websites. They certainly don't keep accurate stock counts or full range on the site. For instance, GameScape - they were super friendly, super approachable, with a great wall of new releases & older classics, and my wife was happy to go there to browse (unlike a lot of stores..) but none of that appears on the website.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
I think I am going to back Click Clack Lumberjack on KS. I haven't played any dexterity games (despite having owned Rampage for over a year) but it looks fun. I know I have seen people speaking highly of Tok Tok Woodman in the past on BGG. I plan on introducing a lot of tabletop games to my daughter at some point so we can play them together but she is still a bit too young at almost 6 years old to understand the strategy in a lot of them to be able to play. A dexterity game seems perfect though and will go great for sessions where my wife and I play Hey! That's my Fish with her.
 

JSR_Cube

Member
The Voyages of Marco Polo. Should also be out in English soon.

I was going to post this as I played it on the weekend. You can see lots of other games in it, Troyes, Bora Bora, Tzolkin, etc. But, I think it stands on its own, has some player interaction, and some very interesting character roles. Everyone in my group really liked it. It took us about two hours for our first game but I can see it dropping to 75-90 once we have a better handle on the rules.
 
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