I dunno.. something tells me if MMAC had been handled by someone like Digital Eclipse, they'dhave squeezed everything in. Including Saturn specific MM8 extras (if it's being recoded anyway, why not?). Atomic Planet's broken GBA Puzzle Fighter port doesn't exactly inspire confidence either... this seem to gel with their track record really. I doubt it's so a much a question of resources as it is effort.jett said:Ported, obviously. I'm guessing porting them to the PS2 was easy as pie since it can natively run PS1 games(also the reason why the Saturn MM8 was not even considered, I bet). I suppose they tried to port everything directly to the GC, instead of optimizing stuff. Atomic Planet worked with whatever Capcom threw at them. It's a low budget collection, anyway...Capcom doesn't have money to throw around on this kind of things.
New Capcom games revealed - first screens inside!
- Thread starter u_neek
- Start date
Kumiko Nikaido
Vindication...sweet.
Matlock said:
No. It's an abomination to the MMX canon and source material. And people wonder why Capcom gets ragged-on. It's because of stupid shit like this.
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200502/N05.0204.1624.45097.htm
Game Informer has the trailer for Mega Man X Collection.
Game Informer has the trailer for Mega Man X Collection.
http://www.gameinformer.com/default.aspx
Try going through the front page. Game Informer does stupid stuff like making you go through the front page for things sometimes.
Try going through the front page. Game Informer does stupid stuff like making you go through the front page for things sometimes.
Meier said:Ahh dammit, Gyakuten Saiban is finally coming to the US and it's on the DS. Shit! I hope they release one of the GBA games here if it does well.. which it wont..
I think this is the type of game I'd really dig, but I'm not buying a DS for it. Here's hoping that when I do get a DS, it'll be cheap. Because I'm digging the sound of it.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Kumiko Nikaido said:
ragged on by the 3 people who give a shit about MMX "canon" maybe. The rest of us rag on them for entirely different reasons.
soundwave05
Member
:lol at those two PS2/XBox titles.
They just reek of that "hey Western gamers will love this" paint-by-the-numbers generic art style.
I think Capcom is taking a new direction with guys like Okamoto and Mikami being forced out or to the sidelines.
I dunno if I like this ...
They just reek of that "hey Western gamers will love this" paint-by-the-numbers generic art style.
I think Capcom is taking a new direction with guys like Okamoto and Mikami being forced out or to the sidelines.
I dunno if I like this ...
Shin Johnpv
Member
jett said:If the games were emulated the arranged music wouldn't have been possible, or the redone menus. The ports also fixed a few things from the originals, I believe. I think the arcade games and MM7 are emulated, though, not sure. It's not Atomic Planet/Capcom's fault Nintendo chose the format they did.
bull shit 6 nes games an snes game and PS game that total 400 megs even WITH arranged sound should not have bloated to over 3.2 gigs
it's not nintendo's fault when you suck at programing so much that you cant fit some NES games onto a mini dvd
it's called letting bob the janitor program the game when he's in a drunken stupor
Shin Johnpv
Member
jett said:You don't understand, the games weren't emulated...ah whatever I'm not going to bother anymore. I wish Capcom hadn't released MMAC on the cube just so this conversations wouldn't exist.
no shit shirlock did I say in that last post that they were emulated no I didn't
and the fact that they weren't emulated doesn't change the fact that a 125k game should not bloat up to 600 megs or more just because you ported it
if it does guess what that means your a shitty programmer
come on there's no reason that a port job of a group of simple 8 bit games should have their foot print go up by a few thousand percent
it's a bullshit excuse when the truth is they had to throw sony some kind of bone on it
fennec fox
ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
The Japanese-speaking gaffers are whining about it on this thread, but Gyakuten is one of the best "adventure" games released in several years. Incredibly suspenseful, occasionally funny, always engaging. I think all of you will like it once you find out more about it.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
I'll take your word for it, the idea seems pretty interesting to say the least. Unfortunately I know nothing on this series but hopefully they'll bring it stateside.fennec fox said:
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
jett said:If the games were emulated the arranged music wouldn't have been possible, or the redone menus. The ports also fixed a few things from the originals, I believe. I think the arcade games and MM7 are emulated, though, not sure. It's not Atomic Planet/Capcom's fault Nintendo chose the format they did.
Please tell me your kidding.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
And I was expecting something resembling an RE4 engine game....guess not!
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
Feck offjett said:
Shin Johnpv said:
Sigh...The games ported to MMAC were not from the NES code. They were ports of Rockman Complete Works 1-6...Playstation games. I'm looking at Rockman Complete VI right now...you have 300 megs for the main game code which includes the redone game to remove slowdown, flickering, etc as well as the Hint mode and added gui crap...the rest is all music and unlockables which are another 300 megs. The RCW games did both the remixed and original music as XA audio...basically mp3 since it was easier than recoding all the original music in the PS1's base midi format (gave them an excuse to add remixed audio as well).
So remove 150 megs for the arranged music and you're still left with 450 megs for each game...that's 2,700 gigs for just those 6 games. The fact that they managed to compress those games and find room for MM8 and some music/video unlockables on the Gamecubes 1.8 gig discs impresses the shit out of me. If they'd just emulated the games You'd have still had massive slowdown, flickering, crappy gui, and no quick weapon swaps...AND still not had the remixed music so what's the problem here? The only thing I can see that Atomic did wrong with the Gamecube collection is not adding a customizable control scheme (which they're addressing in the upcoming Xbox version). They worked the best with what Capcom provided them.
Pft..they could barely be assed to code a gui that was more impressive then the name of the games to select them.
Besides the fact that this was a budget project and Capcom may not have allowed them the cash to print the games onto two discs or there wasn't time to recode them for two discs by the time they realised stuff had to be cut... Don't look at me there. Just saying getting all that they did on one disc is damn impressive.
Besides the fact that this was a budget project and Capcom may not have allowed them the cash to print the games onto two discs or there wasn't time to recode them for two discs by the time they realised stuff had to be cut... Don't look at me there. Just saying getting all that they did on one disc is damn impressive.
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
You know, if they had a problem with space, they should have just ported the NES games (flicker and all) and created an emulator. But the real unforgivable issue is the narf'd GCN controls.
there's really nothing wrong with the ps2 version of megaman anniversary. it's a great compilation, and atomic planet did a fine job. the only potential complaint is that they didn't go with the saturn version of mm8, and even there the extra content hardly merits the additional porting effort. it's your own ridiculous fault if you bought the gamecube version.
Kumiko Nikaido said:
:lol
Other than the absolutely ludicrous idea of playing Mega Man for the plot, let's have a side-by-side comparison of names.
Name: Axle the Red
Japanese Name: Spike Rosered
Name: Dark Dizzy
Japanese Name: Dark Necrobat
Name: Duff McWhalen
Japanese Name: Tidal Makkoeen
Name: Grizzly Slash
Japanese Name: Crescent Grizzly
Name: Izzy Glow
Japanese Name: Shining Hotarunicus
Name: Mattrex
Japanese Name: Burn Dinorex
Name: Skiver
Japanese Name: Spiral Pegacion
Name: Squid Adler
Japanese Name: Bolt Kraken
Out of all of them, the only ones that come off as really silly with the crossover bit are Duff McWhalen and Squid Adler.
But damn, you really seem attached to "Shining Hotarunicus" and "Burn Dinorex," names that are debatably more retarded.
Face it--they're dead, X5 is over; canon, as it were, is laughable.
olubode said:
They could've just saved themselves the headache of trying to give GCN owners the best they could with the space they had and gone PS2 and Xbox only using their superiour media size as well...Personally gamecube only owners are even lucky they got the damn game. As far as I know the Japanese GCN owners didn't even get this much and PS2 owners had to settle for a box set of RCW 1-6 and MMX7...and the two arcade games on a seperate disc at full price.
you got a superior version of the first 6 Megaman titles (barring control mapping) and you complain that they should've just emulated them (and still probably mapped them the same way in the end)...wtf man? I'd be happy just being able to play through TopMan's stage and not slowing to a crawl and blinking on and off as those bulldozer met's show on screen.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
DavidDayton said:
Because even under a tight deadline they can deliver results.
"beat down" has a ridiculous title and dodgy art direction -- sort of kof: mi meets vf4 -- but it sounds kinda promising. there's something deeply right about street gang beat 'em ups. i haven't played any of scarab's games, but wasn't the giant gram series well-regarded? this can't be much worse than spikeout, anyway, which is going to disappoint a lot of people.
Panajev2001a said:
You know, if I had a deadline for a report/book I were writing, and the binder given to me were too small to fit the entire report, it might make more sense to buy a second binder instead of tossing out 50 pages so as to fit the undersized binder.
Atomic Planet might be good at dumping old code onto a disc and running it with minor modification, but they seem like a poor choice when any actually work is involved.
it really isn't incumbent on atomic planet to compensate for nintendo's hardware mistakes. and the core issue isn't "missing content" anyway -- if both versions of mmac lacked arranged soundtracks, i doubt whether there'd be such a fuss. the issue is that the ps2 version is better, which offends nintendocentrists.
drohne said:
Actually, my issue is that one version is missing content without real cause. Perhaps my annoyance should be more rightly directed at Capcom USA for opting to not go with a double disc release on the GC for the collection... something that would have been quite easy to do, given that there would be no issues with splitting the game content. Then again, Atomic Planet DID decide on the silly button mapping...
Eh. I'll be content with grumbling at Capcom USA then.
DavidDayton said:
yes, damn them and their absurdly generous compilation? it's already been mentioned in this thread, but it's worth repeating: japanese gamers have to settle for individual ps1 releases of the six nes games, and a full-priced compilation of the two arcade games (which i saw and boggled at in an import store recently). megaman anniversary collects tons of great games at an excellent price. it sets standards for value, really. even the gamecube version's disfigurements are minor. it's depressing that nintendocentric carping has drowned out the praise mmac rightly deserves.
drohne said:
Midway's Arcade Treasures 1 and 2 are "generous compilations." MMAC is not generous, but it is good. I own MMAC, and I'm glad it was released, even if the GC version is quite inferior to the PS2 version... but that doesn't mean I look forward to Capcom treating future multiplatform collections in the same manner. I do take comfort in the fact that this compilation seems to be being directed by Capcom in Japan, and not Capcom USA... the branch which seems to delight in skimping on extras and overpricing simple ports.
Edit: Just to clarify this -- if one version were inferior due to true technical difficulties, I'd understand. However, there is really no reason for the GC version to be missing anything. New games might have to be redesigned to fit on smaller media -- and in such a case, I'd fully understand having the developer lop off something so as to get the game to work without some horrible redesign of the game. The problem is that MMAC is a set of emulators -- putting MM1-4 on one disc and MM5-7 +extras on the second would have been nearly no effort at all. The limitation was entirely a short-sighted "cost cutting measure" (which probably resulted in very little change in cost -- last I heard, a second disc for a GC game cost very, very little... although I could be wrong!) Other developers have done much better jobs with game collections (Midway, Namco, even the folks doing the Intellivision Collection) -- I expect more from Capcom.
the midway compilations are generously padded out with shitty games. particularly the second. i guess they have a certain scatterbrained charm, but megaman anniversary is a workhorse, delivering straight quality in a way other such compilations don't. i think it's the model to follow. it would have been perfect if it had included rockman and forte, but i suppose capcom was trying to sell a gba version.
drohne said:
Okay. I think we're approaching this from entirely different angles -- I'm commenting on the technical quality of the titles, you're commenting solely on the quality of the games in each compilation. I will grant you that as a set of titles, MMAC is generally better than assortments on the MAT collections... but the MAT collections are still quite good and the performance offered is superior to that in MMAC. I'd rather have the Digital Eclipse team, responsible for the MAT collections, working on the upcoming Capcom Collection than I would have Atomic Planet working on them. Which would you prefer?
there are no technical defects in the ps2 version of mmac. neither of us has any idea how expensive a second gamecube disc would have been, or whether this was under atomic planet's control. certainly the controls should have been open to customization, but their gc button mapping is defensible -- shooting is the primary function in megaman games, and the gc controller has a primary button. and if you want to talk about dodgy controls, midway arcade treasures would be a rich subject (though of course midway's arcade games are more demanding in that regard than megaman games). i have no idea where this talk of atomic planet's ineptitude is coming from, at least in reference to mmac. what do you think digital eclipse would bring to the table? their characteristically awful menus?
a few notes on mmac's thoroughness: i'm really impressed that it includes the two arcade games. likewise that they've used music from the arcade games to implement partial arranged soundtracks for the first few nes games. that they used the glitch-free ps1 versions rather than the nes versions is itself an excellent choice; i particularly chafe at nintendo fanboy suggestions to the contrary. and i'm grateful that they didn't botch the save system. too many compilations do.
a few notes on mmac's thoroughness: i'm really impressed that it includes the two arcade games. likewise that they've used music from the arcade games to implement partial arranged soundtracks for the first few nes games. that they used the glitch-free ps1 versions rather than the nes versions is itself an excellent choice; i particularly chafe at nintendo fanboy suggestions to the contrary. and i'm grateful that they didn't botch the save system. too many compilations do.
Drohne, I'll readily grant you that the PS2 MMAC was a great package. I'm only annoyed that the same attention to quality didn't go into both the PS2 and GC versions. I think that Digital Eclipse would have gotten a higher quality gameplay experience out of the same source material, given their track record for emulation. I'd rather have lousy menus and all the material (including the full MM7 ending sequence -- heck, they could have simply recorded the ending and played a video file of it) than nifty menus and missing material.
Oh, by the way, I do agree that using partially upgraded ports of the Mega Man titles was preferable to simply dumping all the roms on the disc.
Side note: what's wrong with the controls in MAT 1 and 2? MAT1 had annoying predefined controls, but MAT2 was improved in that aspect.
Oh, by the way, I do agree that using partially upgraded ports of the Mega Man titles was preferable to simply dumping all the roms on the disc.
Side note: what's wrong with the controls in MAT 1 and 2? MAT1 had annoying predefined controls, but MAT2 was improved in that aspect.
Ugh. Please don't bring up Atomic Planet. There's a huge thread I started way back in June that you can find.
Basically it comes down to AP being retarded and/or lazy. I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for using the PS1 works collection as a base. Unless the excuse is that they're lazy. But instead they blame the media format instead of their own programming. So the guys behind Mikami can make Resident Evil 4 (either disc, you pick) look that good with audio and what not but they have a hard time putting 6 NES games, 1 SNES game, 1 PSX game, and two arcade games on one disc? Sorry, I don't buy that.
The excuse that the PS1 works collection had the weapon swapping and what not is just a bad argument, considering the horrible control scheme for the GCN version. It's like their QA people (if they even have any) didn't even bother playing it before going gold. What's the point of being able to switch weapons when you can't even fire/jump correctly? In that case I would've rather just had straight emulation with all the slowdown.
Plus the MM7 ending has parts of it left out. Couldn't code part of the Mode 7 or something? Again, laziness.
Not to mention the WORST menu selection for a collection yet. Gee, why not have the main menu be a standard Mega Man stage select screen with the title shot of every Mega Man number, and then you can press R or L to get to the Options menu (that lacks a controller configuration) and the extra unlockables. But hey, what do I know?
Sonic Mega Collection, Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition, etc. were all done better, with the exception of Majora's Mask, but Nintendo had the guts to be honest and tell the user up front about some glitching that might occur.
Edit:
How is the GCN layout defensible? If anything, JUMPING is the main button you press during Mega Man games. You'll be pressing that a whole lot more than you will shooting if you're even somewhat proficient at the Mega Man games, even moreso in the later games where the jump button also is used for sliding. At the very least there's no excuse for them not to even have a configuration. And as for Gamecube owners being 'lucky' that it was released on the system? Mega Man has more roots with Nintendo than Sony. And considering the GCN version outsold the PS2, I think it's lucky that PS2 owners got it. A much larger install base to sell to and it gets outsold? There's no excuse for it like Link being a playable character in SC2.
Sorry for the rant, but MMAC is just one of those things that should've been done right the first time.
Basically it comes down to AP being retarded and/or lazy. I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for using the PS1 works collection as a base. Unless the excuse is that they're lazy. But instead they blame the media format instead of their own programming. So the guys behind Mikami can make Resident Evil 4 (either disc, you pick) look that good with audio and what not but they have a hard time putting 6 NES games, 1 SNES game, 1 PSX game, and two arcade games on one disc? Sorry, I don't buy that.
The excuse that the PS1 works collection had the weapon swapping and what not is just a bad argument, considering the horrible control scheme for the GCN version. It's like their QA people (if they even have any) didn't even bother playing it before going gold. What's the point of being able to switch weapons when you can't even fire/jump correctly? In that case I would've rather just had straight emulation with all the slowdown.
Plus the MM7 ending has parts of it left out. Couldn't code part of the Mode 7 or something? Again, laziness.
Not to mention the WORST menu selection for a collection yet. Gee, why not have the main menu be a standard Mega Man stage select screen with the title shot of every Mega Man number, and then you can press R or L to get to the Options menu (that lacks a controller configuration) and the extra unlockables. But hey, what do I know?
Sonic Mega Collection, Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition, etc. were all done better, with the exception of Majora's Mask, but Nintendo had the guts to be honest and tell the user up front about some glitching that might occur.
Edit:
How is the GCN layout defensible? If anything, JUMPING is the main button you press during Mega Man games. You'll be pressing that a whole lot more than you will shooting if you're even somewhat proficient at the Mega Man games, even moreso in the later games where the jump button also is used for sliding. At the very least there's no excuse for them not to even have a configuration. And as for Gamecube owners being 'lucky' that it was released on the system? Mega Man has more roots with Nintendo than Sony. And considering the GCN version outsold the PS2, I think it's lucky that PS2 owners got it. A much larger install base to sell to and it gets outsold? There's no excuse for it like Link being a playable character in SC2.
Sorry for the rant, but MMAC is just one of those things that should've been done right the first time.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
DavidDayton said:
Yeah, yeah...
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
Mega Man Anniversary Collection
Pre-Order: Ships on 4/12/2005
Arrrrrg, I want it!
Pre-Order: Ships on 4/12/2005
Arrrrrg, I want it!
Seriously, after the backlash with Puzzle Fighter GBA and MMAC GC, how can anyone defend Atomic Planet? Pinning their below par work on nothing but upset "Nintendo centrists" and "Nintendo's hardware mistakes" is sidestepping the issue entirely. Considering the base hardware they came from, all these ports should've been perfect. No excuse what so ever, there's tons of other small coding houses who would've done better (Digital Eclipse, Climax Studios, etc). Hopefully Capcom USA's wised up and gone with someone more capable for these future compilations. I'm glad MMAC GBA managed to escape AP's grasp.