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[More_Badass]

Would he have no opinion on them at all if right wing media ignored them, then? Don't mean that as an accusation, I'm genuinely curious about this.

The fact that they're criticizing cops and that it's a progressive/liberal "agenda" would be enough to twist his views and his perception of them. Like he's currently boycotting Tarantino movies

If it leans liberal, he'll automatically be against it, whatever it is.

 

[silvon]

Bullshit, Pride voted in favor of the agreements months after the incident.

I am sick and tired of the misinformation surrounding Pride Toronto/BLM TO like the above, the JAQs who feign concern over equality in order to preserve the status quo and, most importantly, the people who seem to ignore the black people who make up the LGBTQ2+ community and the anger aimed at that group because the police don't get a float at an event that started as a protest against the police for discrimination against that same community in the 80s while they target them with the likes of Project Marie.

I was referring to the (former) leader of Pride Toronto who did recant his agreeement soon after the parade. I didn't know that Pride later reaffirmed their support of the demands. I was wrong. Still, it doesn't change my opinion that there are better ways for BLM to voice their platform than demanding the exclusion of a whole group of people.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

welp

 

[excelsiorlef]

The stalled the parade without any notice and refused to move until their demands were met, in my opinion that qualifies as strong-arming. That put the parade organizers in a difficult spot, forcing them to agree with the demands, though they soon recanted their agreement.

The demands were for the year after... They had all year not to agree but they did because Solidarity Hell Yeah.

And like I said Pride used to be about disruption and activism. BLM was acting in the true spirit of pride

I was referring to the (former) leader of Pride Toronto who did recant his agreeement soon after the parade. I didn't know that Pride later reaffirmed their support of the demands. I was wrong. Still, it doesn't change my opinion that there are better ways for BLM to voice their platform than demanding the exclusion of a whole group of people.

Police are an institution not a "group of people" and not an identity

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's a symptom of that "both sides" shit.

People are so intellectually lazy and dishonest, they prefer to say "both sides" when they don't want to actually look at both sides and pick one, convinced that it gives them some moral and intellectual high ground because they're "in the middle."

And so, I'll say again: FUCK people in the middle. Fuck moderates right up their fucking asses. If you care about the issues, you won't call yourself a fucking moderate.

It's the drive for easy negative peace.

Where the majority just want minorities to shut up so the boat ain't rocked anymore and it all "goes away".

That's their idea of peace

It's why MLK hated white moderates the most

 

[Renegade Frost]

The radical transformation you're talking about is massive amounts of violence. Few groups ever give up power peacefully and gracefully. Characterizing white people as a hateful horde is racist, inaccurate, and ultimately unproductive. The reality is that there is a very large group of white people that despises minorities (especially black people) and does everything in their power to ruin them, and an even larger group of white people that silently look on while enjoying the numerous benefits of being part of the group in power.

They are preconditioned (both by the media and the hateful core spreading garbage about minorities) to mistrust minorities and anything they do or say. It's no surprise that BLM has been smeared so bad that they see it negatively.

What else do we call lying two faced blokes who get emmet till murdered?

 

[Woo-Fu]

There is a segment of the population that doesn't care for any form of activism. I suspect you'll find most/all races represented in that segment.

 

[Renegade Frost]

There is a segment of the population that doesn't care for any form of activism. I suspect you'll find most/all races represented in that segment.

This is a country with 300 million people and a white majority.

70% of that majority is a lot of people.

Harassing college aged white kids (aka the most likely whites to be on our side) instead of disrupting police orgs or politicians against police reform is pointless and cowardly at best.
QUOTE=silvon;245340880]My exposure to BLM here in Canada is when they threatened to boycott the gay pride parade unless the police are banned from marching. That left a negative impression on me. I don't think fighting suppression with suppression is cool, and I'm not sure why they chose the pride parade to voice their platform.

See now THIS I can get behind. Fuck them in every way possible until they change, not the stressed out freshmen who has no idea why people are screaming at him.[/QUOTE]

There are no sides in the struggle for the soul of humanity.

That is one of my criticisms of the BLM movement is lack of structure. Not necessarily centralized leadership, but enough people on the ground with training as organizers. Now, there are good reasons for that, a lot of the groups were formed ad hoc, and the group sprang up out of urgency as opposed to a structured organizational founding. I do hope they do establish some structure, which allows individual communities to best address the issues that affect their community/situation, but also to give people the training and strategizing that would make them more successful.

Isnt it funded by george soros?

 

[Justin Bailey]

I was at a Beer festival last year, and some BLM protesters marched through the middle of the crowd for no reason whatsoever. I am completely sympathetic to their cause, but even I was annoyed by this.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

I was at a Beer festival last year, and some BLM protesters marched through the middle of the crowd for no reason whatsoever. I am completely sympathetic to their cause, but even I was annoyed by this.

It's terrible how they mildly inconvenienced you.

 

[Byakuya769]

Nice white friends, is there any way that we can support you in your efforts to convince your relatives that they're wrong? Cause I'm just done.

 

[Caelus]

I was at a Beer festival last year, and some BLM protesters marched through the middle of the crowd for no reason whatsoever. I am completely sympathetic to their cause, but even I was annoyed by this.

...ok. What point are you trying to make?

 

[old manatee]

The media really fucked over BLM with their usual bullshit of giving both sides equal weight even when one side is saying something totally reasonable and the other side is braying like a bunch of jackasses.

 

[Litan]

There is a segment of the population that doesn't care for any form of activism. I suspect you'll find most/all races represented in that segment.

This reads like 'both sides' BS, except, in this case, it's 'all races.'

 

[Slayven]

It's terrible how they mildly inconvenienced you.

That is what it boils down to. If you inconvenice the majority in action or in thoughts, you are labeled a threat

 

[Justin Bailey]

Hah, I'm not going for the NeoGAF pile on. Just sharing an experience.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

While I sympathize with the main message behind BLM, I really feel like some of their practices hurt them. Blocking interstates being the main thing I'm thinking of. If I was late for work, trying to get to the hospital, trying to catch a flight etc, and some protestors forced me to come to a complete stop on the interstate, I would be absolutely furious, and would be way more predisposed to despising the protestors and whatever it is they stand for.

Also, I feel like the BLM movement is somewhat separated from the overarching racial issue in America. As in, some people who don't approve of BLM specifically, still support racial equality overall. Anecdotally, I know a good number of people who aren't fans of BLM, but would never say that they disapprove of racial equality.

Just my two cents.

 

[Madness]

...ok. What point are you trying to make?

This highlights the biggest frustration for movements like Black Lives Matter. What are you supposed to do? Marching in unison is seen as a threat. Someone with an afro taking a knee during the anthem gets more hate than wife beaters, rapists, drug users, even killers. Their goal is for everyone to just sit forever with the boots on the neck taking injustice and hoping and praying silently in their mind anything will change. As if historically that has ever worked.

 

[old manatee]

That is one of my criticisms of the BLM movement is lack of structure. Not necessarily centralized leadership, but enough people on the ground with training as organizers. Now, there are good reasons for that, a lot of the groups were formed ad hoc, and the group sprang up out of urgency as opposed to a structured organizational founding. I do hope they do establish some structure, which allows individual communities to best address the issues that affect their community/situation, but also to give people the training and strategizing that would make them more successful.

Eh, I wasn't interested in this criticism when it was used to silence Occupy Wall Street, and I've been even less receptive to it now that it's constantly being trotted out against the next big protest movement to come along. It seems like a convenient way to dismiss basically any grassroots movement without even having to engage with their issues.

 

[Slayven]

Hah, I'm not going for the NeoGAF pile on. Just sharing an experience.

But the beer.....

 

[excelsiorlef]

There is a segment of the population that doesn't care for any form of activism. I suspect you'll find most/all races represented in that segment.

Literally those most opposed to BLM are white folk that's the stat.

Don't try to all sides this

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

Just my two cents.

Problem there is people will use any action taken as protest for reason to get offended, look at Kapernack and his blackballing as result, so this whole "I could get behind them if they just tempered their actions" argument doesn't fly IMHO.

 

[watershed]

Who is surprised by this? There are white liberals in my own hometown of Seattle that view BLM negatively.

 

[Caelus]

This highlights the biggest frustration for movements like Black Lives Matter. What are you supposed to do? Marching in unison is seen as a threat. Someone with an afro taking a knee during the anthem gets more hate than wife beaters, rapists, drug users, even killers. Their goal is for everyone to just sit forever with the boots on the neck taking injustice and hoping and praying silently in their mind anything will change. As if historically that has ever worked.

Well, in the 2nd image, definitely not like that.. if you're using Comic Sans.

But yeah, I'm tired of the stupid obstruction argument. Be mad at the systematic injustice which drives people to protest, not the people themselves.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

While I sympathize with the main message behind BLM, I really feel like some of their practices hurt them. Blocking interstates being the main thing I'm thinking of. If I was late for work, trying to get to the hospital, trying to catch a flight etc, and some protestors forced me to come to a complete stop on the interstate, I would be absolutely furious, and would be way more predisposed to despising the protestors and whatever it is they stand for.

Also, I feel like the BLM movement is somewhat separated from the overarching racial issue in America. As in, some people who don't approve of BLM specifically, still support racial equality overall. Anecdotally, I know a good number of people who aren't fans of BLM, but would never say that they disapprove of racial equality.

Just my two cents.

most people who disapprove of racial equality won't just come out and say they disapprove of racial equality....

 

[Cipherr]

I can't say I'm shocked, but it doesn't make the numbers any less deplorable.



This is depressing. They didn't even think highly of MLK until years after he died.

Love his ass now though. Name drop him everytime they can as the "model negro" whenever one of us steps out of line, or does something in a way they don't approve of.

 

[excelsiorlef]

...ok. What point are you trying to make?

Light Beers Matter man.

Nana Ruth's fav and BLM stopped her from getting it by 20 seconds when they marched through the holy Beer Fest.

 

[Woo-Fu]

This is a country with 300 million people and a white majority.

70% of that majority is a lot of people.

It is also a country where the percentage of the population over 65 increases every year.

While it is convenient for your point of view to blame this entirely upon racism that doesn't cover all of it.

 

[Slayven]

Light Beers Matter man.

Nana Ruth's fav and BLM stopped her from getting it by 20 seconds when they marched through the holy Beer Fest.

You know Nana loves a good Stout

 

[digdug2k]

While I sympathize with the main message behind BLM, I really feel like some of their practices hurt them. Blocking interstates being the main thing I'm thinking of. If I was late for work, trying to get to the hospital, trying to catch a flight etc, and some protestors forced me to come to a complete stop on the interstate, I would be absolutely furious, and would be way more predisposed to despising the protestors and whatever it is they stand for.

Also, I feel like the BLM movement is somewhat separated from the overarching racial issue in America. As in, some people who don't approve of BLM specifically, still support racial equality overall. Anecdotally, I know a good number of people who aren't fans of BLM, but would never say that they disapprove of racial equality.

Just my two cents.

This is

1.) Literally right wing PR. You're spouting FoxNews bullshit stories. Do you know that you're just regurgitating the shit Turcker Carlson makes up at night to rile up his crowds?

2.) What black people go through every day. Do you realize how stupid it makes you sound to complain that you might someday, maybe, in some fictional land, have to go through for one morning, the same thing black people experience regularly? Getting held up in traffic in the morning for no reason other than "This cop is having a good/bad day and wants to go on a power trip" would be you attaining, on some teeny tiny minscule scale, the racial equality you super duper approve of.

 

[LinkAndEpona]

I was at a Beer festival last year, and some BLM protesters marched through the middle of the crowd for no reason whatsoever. I am completely sympathetic to their cause, but even I was annoyed by this.

I can understand this.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Also, I feel like the BLM movement is somewhat separated from the overarching racial issue in America. As in, some people who don't approve of BLM specifically, still support racial equality overall. Anecdotally, I know a good number of people who aren't fans of BLM, but would never say that they disapprove of racial equality.

Just my two cents.

It's also possible that those people don't really care about equality and just pay the concept lip service, or they don't think things are bad enough for black people to justify protests. Or they could even be racist and aren't willing to admit it - lots of racists are like that.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

This is

1.) Literally right wing PR. You're spouting FoxNews bullshit stories. Do you know that you're just regurgitating the shit Turcker Carlson makes up at night to rile up his crowds?

2.) What black people go through every day. Do you realize how stupid it makes you sound to complain that you might someday, maybe, in some fictional land, have to go through for one morning, the same thing black people experience regularly? Getting held up in traffic in the morning for no reason other than "This cop is having a good/bad day and wants to go on a power trip" would be you attaining, on some teeny tiny minscule scale, the racial equality you super duper approve of.

Yeah I've started to read the whole "Can't you change the way you protest" to "Can't you protest in a peaceful and quiet way so that I can more easily ignore it?"

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

lol

this is why "moderates" and "allies" are useless

 

[excelsiorlef]

You know Nana loves a good Stout

Yeah but BLM blocked traffic and the delivery truck was late so she had to settle for a craft light beer

Nana knows the struggle.

While I sympathize with the main message behind BLM, I really feel like some of their practices hurt them. Blocking interstates being the main thing I'm thinking of. If I was late for work, trying to get to the hospital, trying to catch a flight etc, and some protestors forced me to come to a complete stop on the interstate, I would be absolutely furious, and would be way more predisposed to despising the protestors and whatever it is they stand for.

Also, I feel like the BLM movement is somewhat separated from the overarching racial issue in America. As in, some people who don't approve of BLM specifically, still support racial equality overall. Anecdotally, I know a good number of people who aren't fans of BLM, but would never say that they disapprove of racial equality.

Just my two cents.

This is one MLK wouldn't approve away from a bingo.

You realize the stats say the people most likely to oppose BLM also don't believe racial inequality and police bias exists eh?

 

[Slayven]

While I sympathize with the main message behind BLM, I really feel like some of their practices hurt them. Blocking interstates being the main thing I'm thinking of. If I was late for work, trying to get to the hospital, trying to catch a flight etc, and some protestors forced me to come to a complete stop on the interstate, I would be absolutely furious, and would be way more predisposed to despising the protestors and whatever it is they stand for.

Also, I feel like the BLM movement is somewhat separated from the overarching racial issue in America. As in, some people who don't approve of BLM specifically, still support racial equality overall. Anecdotally, I know a good number of people who aren't fans of BLM, but would never say that they disapprove of racial equality.

Just my two cents.

Elaborate please

 

[Caelus]

I can understand this.

One can understand how stupid it is, and the desire to avoid a "GAF pile on" is an admittance that what they said demonstrates a lack of empathy and can't really be defended.

I'm annoyed by train traffic on the godforsaken MTA, but I wouldn't ever be seriously mad at BLM protesters who block traffic.

 

[Mechazawa]

The good news is that in about 20 or 30 years from now, if patterns hold, the country will act like they were on board with BLM all along and uphold them as an impossibly angelic standard for black people to live up to.

Eh. If we're going off the final tally of the actual civil rights movement as it stands today for large segments of the country, then the actual trajectory for BLM will be more about evangelizing certain key figures, demonizing others and then treating the rest with indifference outside of lipservice to a general "one time black people fought for their rights and that was good".

Wouldn't surprise me if BLM itself more or less gets swept under the rug.

 

[L Thammy]

I was at a Beer festival last year, and some BLM protesters marched through the middle of the crowd for no reason whatsoever. I am completely sympathetic to their cause, but even I was annoyed by this.

Maybe they were trying to raise awareness - which generally demands that they are where they aren't expected to be, rather than preaching to the choir.

 

[excelsiorlef]

One can understand how stupid it is, and the desire to avoid a "GAF pile on" is an admittance that what they said demonstrates a lack of empathy and can't really be defended.

I'm annoyed by train traffic on the godforsaken MTA, but I wouldn't ever be seriously mad at BLM protesters who block traffic.

I wouldn't bother that poster is pretty much known by to just drive by with nonsense like that

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Problem there is people will use any action taken as protest for reason to get offended, look at Kapernack and his blackballing as result, so this whole "I could get behind them if they just tempered their actions" argument doesn't fly IMHO.

Certainly possible, in which case people are just being unreasonable. Not to take away from Kaepernick's message, but I'm genuinely curious how that act of protesting would have been received if a bigger name started it. Like Lebron or OBJ. Maybe people would have reacted the same, I'm not sure. I feel like part of the vitriol Kaepernick got was because people perceived him as just trying to grab a headline because his playing quality was declining. Or maybe people suck, what do I know lol.

most people who disapprove of racial equality won't just come out and say they disapprove of racial equality....

Oh I know, I just meant like some people I know who aren't fans of BLM aren't racist at all.

This is

1.) Literally right wing PR. You're spouting FoxNews bullshit stories. Do you know that you're just regurgitating the shit Turcker Carlson makes up at night to rile up his crowds?

2.) What black people go through every day. Do you realize how stupid it makes you sound to complain that you might someday, maybe, in some fictional land, have to go through for one morning, the same thing black people experience regularly? Getting held up in traffic in the morning for no reason other than "This cop is having a good/bad day and wants to go on a power trip" would be you attaining, on some teeny tiny minscule scale, the racial equality you super duper approve of.

I mean, BLM protestors have been on video blocking interstates. I wasn't making things up. And I'm just saying that it would make me frustrated. As I'm sure getting stopped regularly makes black people frustrated. And getting frustrated doesn't usually lead to productive outcomes.

It's also possible that those people don't really care about equality and just pay the concept lip service, or they don't think things are bad enough for black people to justify protests. Or they could even be racist and aren't willing to admit it - lots of racists are like that.

While this is certainly true for some people, the ones I know are genuinely not like that. Perhaps I'm just lucky, but anecdotal evidence is just that lol.

 

[R0ckman]

They'll never empathize because they don't see a son, husband, father, etc walking home; they see a police officer doing his job, self defense, "if they felt threatened, they have to protect themselves", the person killed was obviously in the wrong or else the cop wouldn't have killed him


Fox News and right wing media. My dad only watches Fox and only trusts them and Mark Levin; also, he use to be a state trooper

If that's all you follow, you only see rioters, thugs, threats to kill cops, and so on

But why does he use fox news or for that matter any one guy as a source for news? Why is he handing over his freedom to do his own research? Why would he enjoy a middle man to filter and interpret the data for him?

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Elaborate please

I'm hoping for a "it's all about economics and no racism" hot take.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Elaborate please

I just feel like some people view BLM as a radicalized, maybe that's not the right word, an extreme group that takes things too far. Perhaps that's because people don't realize how bad things can be for minorities. Which I think is a real possibility, because we all live in our own personal bubbles. But for people who aren't aware of the real problems, they view BLM as an unnecessarily in-your-face activist group.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Certainly possible, in which case people are just being unreasonable. Not to take away from Kaepernick's message, but I'm genuinely curious how that act of protesting would have been received if a bigger name started it. Like Lebron or OBJ. Maybe people would have reacted the same, I'm not sure. I feel like part of the vitriol Kaepernick got was because people perceived him as just trying to grab a headline because his playing quality was declining. Or maybe people suck, what do I know lol.


Oh I know, I just meant like some people I know who aren't fans of BLM aren't racist at all.

I mean, BLM protestors have been on video blocking interstates. I wasn't making things up. And I'm just saying that it would make me frustrated. As I'm sure getting stopped regularly makes black people frustrated. And getting frustrated doesn't usually lead to productive outcomes.

While this is certainly true for some people, the ones I know are genuinely not like that. Perhaps I'm just lucky, but anecdotal evidence is just that lol.

Blocking traffic is a literal staple of protest since traffic was invented

 

[iamblades]

My beef with BLM is that they made the entire focus about racist cops instead of bad laws and bad government policy and sucked all the air away from organizations that actually had a chance of making a change like Campaign Zero. 3 years ago conservative republicans were working on criminal justice reform as a priority, now we got trump and Sessions as AG, and no likely reform in the foreseeable future.

Can't blame the entirety of the reactionary response on BLM, but they have made plenty of tactical mistakes that have basically destroyed any chance for it to be an effective organization.

 

[Kill3r7]

I would love to see a poll on safe spaces to see how that compares to BLM.

But why does he use fox news or for that matter any one guy as a source for news? Why is he handing over his freedom to do his own research? Why would he enjoy a middle man to filter and interpret the data for him?

That is how most Americans consumed news for generations.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I just feel like some people view BLM as a radicalized, maybe that's not the right word, an extreme group that takes things too far. Perhaps that's because people don't realize how bad things can be for minorities. Which I think is a real possibility, because we all live in our own personal bubbles. But for people who aren't aware of the real problems, they view BLM as an unnecessarily in-your-face activist group.

That's how they view any black activism period.

So maybe stop blaming BLM

My beef with BLM is that they made the entire focus about racist cops instead of bad laws and bad government policy and sucked all the air away from organizations that actually had a chance of making a change like Campaign Zero. 3 years ago conservative republicans were working on criminal justice reform as a priority, now we got trump and Sessions as AG, and no likely reform in the foreseeable future.

Can't blame the entirety of the reactionary response on BLM, but they have made plenty of tactical mistakes that have basically destroyed any chance for it to be an effective organization.

Did you just hold BLM partially responsible for Trump and Sessions?

Also I don't believe for a second that Republicans give a shit about criminal justice reform. Certainly not in how it affects black people.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

Blocking traffic is a literal staple of protest since traffic was invented

Sure, and I'm sure people were mad when it was first used as well.

Say someone is trying to get to the hospital because they have a child having a severe asthma attack in their backseat. They just got on the interstate, panicking because their child is wheezing, and all of a sudden, they have to come to a complete stop. No cars are moving whatsoever. The child's wheezing gets worse, and the parent gets even more freaked out. Finally, after what feels like an eternity, they get to move again. Why the sudden stop? A bad wreck perhaps? Nope, some protestors holding signs. The parent doesn't care what the signs say, or what the protestors stand for, they are just pissed that they got stopped from getting to the hospital to help their kid out.

Perhaps that's an extreme example, I'm just trying to get my point across that blocking traffic, I think, does more harm than good for trying to get people to support your cause.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Sure, and I'm sure people were mad when it was first used as well.

Say someone is trying to get to the hospital because they have a child having a severe asthma attack in their backseat. They just got on the interstate, panicking because their child is wheezing, and all of a sudden, they have to come to a complete stop. No cars are moving whatsoever. The child's wheezing gets worse, and the parent gets even more freaked out. Finally, after what feels like an eternity, they get to move again. Why the sudden stop? A bad wreck perhaps? Nope, some protestors holding signs. The parent doesn't care what the signs say, or what the protestors stand for, they are just pissed that they got stopped from getting to the hospital to help their kid out.

Perhaps that's an extreme example, I'm just trying to get my point across that blocking traffic, I think, does more harm than good for trying to get people to support your cause.

As always folks like you sympathize with intricate hypotheticals over real people.

Congratulations you just birthed Nana Ruth's grandson Tiny Timmy.

Like holy shit you just wrote a short story to justify being mad at BLM.