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[theignoramus]

The United States on Tuesday presented to the U.N. Security Council a draft resolution containing a fourth round of tough new sanctions aimed at curbing Iran's nuclear activities. The draft is the product of weeks of negotiation among the five permanent veto-wielding members of the council plus Germany. And comes just a day after Iran agreed to a deal brokered by council members Brazil and Turkey to export some of its enriched uranium in return for fuel for a medical research reactor.

The new draft resolution contains strong sanctions, including restrictions on Iran's import of conventional arms, limits on Iranian ballistic missile activity, and the imposition of travel bans and asset freezes on designated members of the powerful Revolutionary Guards Corps.

The resolution would also establish a comprehensive new framework for cargo inspections in seaports and on the high seas, requiring states to search any vessels they reasonably believe to be carrying prohibited cargo and to seize and dispose of it.

U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice said the goal of the resolution is two-fold.

"First, to increase the cost to Iran's leadership for its continuing defiance of the international community," said Susan Rice. "And second, to persuade Iran that it is in its interest to peacefully resolve concerns about its nuclear program. The draft seeks to support and not replace our efforts to engage Iran diplomatically. We've said through-out this process that the door remains open to Iran to live up to its obligations and achieve a better relationship with the international community."

The United States has been in the lead on pressing for new sanctions. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said earlier Tuesday that the Brazilian-Turkish fuel swap deal Tehran agreed to this week leaves "a number of unanswered questions", but that strong sanctions will send the Iranian leadership an "unmistakable message" about what is expected of it.

Iran insists its nuclear program is strictly peaceful, but world powers believe Iran is secretly trying to develop nuclear weapons.

The new draft resolution is significant in that it contains strong new measures and won the support of China and Russia -- two powers which have been reluctant to impose new sanctions.

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said the draft is acceptable to Moscow because it is not intended to hurt either normal economic activity in Iran or the civilian population.

"We believe it is an adequate language; it is a language acceptable to us; a language we can live with, because it is focused adequately on non-proliferation matters," said Vitaly Churkin.

Chinese Ambassador Li Baodong reiterated his government's commitment to the dual track approach of engagement and pressure regarding Iran and welcomed the announcement of agreement on the fuel swap deal.

"So we think this is a positive step [the fuel swap deal] on the right track towards the right direction," said Li Baodong. "And I think all the parties should grab this opportunity to step up the diplomatic efforts to address this issue."

But French Ambassador Gérard Araud made the point that the fuel swap is intended as only a confidence-building measure and is not an end in itself. He said Iran still remains in violation of earlier Security Council resolutions, has not stopped enriching uranium and has not answered outstanding questions to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Diplomats said they hope for a vote among the full council as soon as possible, but it was not clear how long that could take.

Meanwhile in India....

After two successive setbacks, Agni-II surface-to-surface ballistic was successfully flight-tested from the Wheeler Island off the Orissa coast on Monday.

The intermediate range missile can carry nuclear weapons and has a range of more than 2000 km.

It was fired from a rail mobile launcher by personnel of the Strategic Forces Command at 9.18 a.m., as part of user training exercise.

After a flight of about 660 seconds, the missile splashed down near the pre-designated target in the Bay of Bengal and met all the mission objectives, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) officials said.

The missile's re-entry vehicle, made of carbon-carbon composites, withstood very high temperatures of up to 3,000 degree Celsius as it descended with a speed of 3.5 km/second after reaching a height of 230 km. It was tested for the full range.

Two down range naval ships tracked the missile reaching the target, while a network of radars, telemetry and electro-optical tracking systems along Orissa's coast, monitored its path and evaluated all parameters in real time. An advanced navigation system enabled Agni-II to reach the target very accurately. The missile has manoeuvring capability to deceive any anti-ballistic weapon system.

The missile was test-fired for the third time in last one year by the Strategic Forces Command. During the previous missions, the missile failed to meet the mission objectives after both the launches witnessed problems during the course of the flight. Monday's launch was preceded by successful test-firing of Agni-III (3,500 km range) in February and Agni-I (700 km) in March this year.

The two-stage solid-propelled Agni-II is one of the key weapon systems of the country's nuclear deterrence doctrine and had been inducted into the armed forces. It is 21 metres tall and is capable of carrying a payload of one tonne.

Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and Director-General of DRDO V.K. Saraswat reviewed the total operations and witnessed the launch along with senior DRDO officials and top brass from the Strategic Forces Command. Agni's programme director and director, Advanced Systems Laboratory, Avinash Chander monitored the overall pre-launch operations.

Defence Minister A. K. Antony congratulated all the DRDO scientists and armed forces personnel for the success of the mission.

India and Pakistan engaged in a dangerous nuclear standoff in 2001/02. India has since reassured the international community of its dismissal of the NPT and has proudly announced its ability to develop 200 kiloton nuclear bombs.

 

[Weenerz]

Needs way more bolding for me to be outraged.

 

[automagnus]

The missile's re-entry vehicle, made of carbon-carbon composites, withstood very high temperatures of up to 3,000 degree Celsius as it descended with a speed of 3.5 km/second after reaching a height of 230 km. It was tested for the full range.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Meanwhile in India....

WTF... The difference between Iran and India/Pakistan is that Iran signed and ratified the NPT.

Only five states (US, UK, Russia, France, China) are recognized by the NPT as nuclear weapon states, Iran accepted this as a signatory.
India and Pakistan do not: "These countries argue that the NPT creates a club of "nuclear haves" and a larger group of "nuclear have-nots" by restricting the legal possession of nuclear weapons to those states that tested them before 1967, but the treaty never explains on what ethical grounds such a distinction is valid."

 

[Pimpwerx]

WTF... The difference between Iran and India/Pakistan is that Iran signed and ratified the NPT.

Only five states (US, UK, Russia, France, China) are recognized by the NPT as nuclear weapon states, Iran accepted this as a signatory.
India and Pakistan do not: "These countries argue that the NPT creates a club of "nuclear haves" and a larger group of "nuclear have-nots" by restricting the legal possession of nuclear weapons to those states that tested them before 1967, but the treaty never explains on what ethical grounds such a distinction is valid."

So...it's ok because they didn't sign it? Is that how we chose our allies? I think it's incredibly hypocritical. PEACE.

 

[theignoramus]

WTF... The difference between Iran and India/Pakistan is that Iran signed and ratified the NPT.

Only five states (US, UK, Russia, France, China) are recognized by the NPT as nuclear weapon states, Iran accepted this as a signatory.
India and Pakistan do not: "These countries argue that the NPT creates a club of "nuclear haves" and a larger group of "nuclear have-nots" by restricting the legal possession of nuclear weapons to those states that tested them before 1967, but the treaty never explains on what ethical grounds such a distinction is valid."

Uh, that was my fucking point. Iran would be in an even worse situation if its nuclear sites werent under IAEA monitoring. According to Frank Barnaby, no country in history has been subjected to a more rigorous inspections regime than Iran. The U.S. or Israel, or hell, even NATO would have bombed Iran's nuclear program if they shunned IAEA oversight and NPT membership like India.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

So...it's ok because they didn't sign it? Is that how we chose our allies? I think it's incredibly hypocritical. PEACE.

Actually? Yea. If you didn't sign the treaty than you are not in violation of it. If you sign the treaty and seek to build nuclear weapons than you are in violation of it. Not that difficult to understand.

 

[leroy hacker]

Is it just me or does that article not say anything about any sanctions being passed?

 

[Snaku]

Leave Iran alone!

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

I say this is a roadblock to the progress. As I understand, only military ordinance is on the sanctions list so it's not that big of a deal. If Iran respects the deal with Turkey and continues to be open to IAEA inspections, then we'll see progress as far as this BS saber-rattling.

Actually? Yea. If you didn't sign the treaty than you are not in violation of it. If you sign the treaty and seek to build nuclear weapons than you are in violation of it. Not that difficult to understand.

Then the treaty doesn't mean much. But how is Iran violating any of the terms of the treaty? As I understand, there's only circumstantial evidence supporting that.

Wouldn't a better use of the State Department's time be trying to disarm India and Pakistan?

 

[Madman]

Is it just me or does that article not say anything about any sanctions being passed?

I checked, and you are correct. Thread title is seemingly false.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Is it just me or does that article not say anything about any sanctions being passed?

Congrats, your reading comprehension skills are superior to theignoramus.

 

[Deku]

No actual sanctions passed. OP stirring the pile of dog shit Iran left behind, and smearing India too.

Relativism and Chinese oil interests wins again.

 

[xbhaskarx]

like India.

Why do you keep using India as your counterexample, instead of Pakistan, when India has no history of nuclear proliferation whereas the founder of Pakistan's nuclear program is responsible for nuclear proliferation to North Korea, Iran, Libya, and other states?

 

[theignoramus]

Actually? Yea. If you didn't sign the treaty than you are not in violation of it. If you sign the treaty and seek to build nuclear weapons than you are in violation of it. Not that difficult to understand.

That's a criminally negligent view of nuclear weapons development (nuclear weapons arent less of a threat outside international treaties), but India's case does relate to the NPT.
The U.S. has been transferring nuclear technology to India since 2007, when George Bush signed a civilian nuclear pact with India. That's a serious violation of the spirit of the NPT treaty; the NPT discourages proliferation of nuclear technology to non-NPT members with active WMD programs. Transferring civilian nuclear technology to India allows India to invest more resources in its WMD program.

 

[theignoramus]

I checked, and you are correct. Thread title is seemingly false.

Hilary Clinton announced that all five permanent members support the draft resolution.
Brazil and Turkey cant stop the sanctions, they will be passed. The Security Council vote is a mere formality now. The non permanent members like Japan, Austria, Mexico wont stand against the will of the big the U.S. and EU.

Why do you keep using India as your counterexample

Because the main Iran sanctions proponent, the U.S., is a participant in India's WMD program.

 

[Madman]

Hilary Clinton announced that all five permanent members support the draft resolution.
Brazil and Turkey cant stop the sanctions, they will be passed. The Security Council vote is a mere formality now. The non permanent members like Japan, Austria, Mexico wont stand against the will of the big the U.S. and EU.

Your thread title says the sanctions are passed, and they are not. If the upcoming vote is a lock, say that instead.

 

[xbhaskarx]

The U.S. has been transferring nuclear technology to India since 2007, when George Bush signed a civilian nuclear pact with India. That's a serious violation of the spirit of the NPT treaty; the NPT discourages proliferation of nuclear technology to non-NPT members with active WMD programs. Transferring civilian nuclear technology to India allows India to invest more resources in its WMD program.

Dude you have no idea what you're talking about, the US certainly has not been transferring nuclear technology to India since 2007 given that the agreement was signed in late 2008.

You say it's a serious violation of the "spirit" of the NPT treaty but both the IAEA and NSG approved it.

-On August 1, 2008, the IAEA Board of Governors approved the safeguards agreement with India.

-The 45-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group granted the waiver to India on September 6, 2008 allowing it to access civilian nuclear technology and fuel from other countries.

-On September 28, 2008 the US House of Representatives voted 298-117 to approve the Indo-US nuclear deal.
-On October 1, 2008 the US Senate voted 86-13 to approve the Indo-US nuclear deal.
-The US - India civilian nuclear agreement was signed on October 10, 2008.

-India has since signed nuclear deals with France, Russia, and the UK.

Because the main Iran sanctions proponent, the U.S., is a participant in India's WMD program.

:lol :lol
What a joke. What does that mean, are you saying because the two countries have a civilian nuclear agreement, the US is a participant in India's WMD program? If that's the case, Russia, France and the UK are also participants in India's WMD program (see links above), and other nations like Canada and the UAE could soon be joining them.

 

[speculawyer]

Meh. I don't think any remotely rational person would use nukes. Even Amedinjiadkjhsdfkha. He's just a grandstanding political whore playing to his conservative base.

The only nuke I'd worry about is one in the hands of some nutty cult like Al-Qeada, Aum Shinrikyo (sp?), David Koresh, etc.

 

[theignoramus]

Dude you have no idea what you're talking about, the US certainly has not been transferring nuclear technology to India since 2007 given that the agreement was signed in late 2008.

You say it's a serious violation of the "spirit" of the NPT treaty but both the IAEA and NSG approved it.

-On August 1, 2008, the IAEA Board of Governors approved the safeguards agreement with India.

-The 45-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group granted the waiver to India on September 6, 2008 allowing it to access civilian nuclear technology and fuel from other countries.

-On September 28, 2008 the US House of Representatives voted 298-117 to approve the Indo-US nuclear deal.
-On October 1, 2008 the US Senate voted 86-13 to approve the Indo-US nuclear deal.
-The US - India civilian nuclear agreement was signed on October 10, 2008.

-India has since signed nuclear deals with France, Russia, and the UK.



:lol :lol
What a joke. What does that mean, are you saying because the two countries have a civilian nuclear agreement, the US is a participant in India's WMD program? If that's the case, Russia, France and the UK are also participants in India's WMD program (see links above), and other nations like Canada and the UAE could soon be joining them.

The IAEA approved the deal because it gets their inspectors into India. But the deal still undermines the NPT treaty and anyone can understand why: if the U.S. can sell nuclear technology to non-NPT members with weapons programs, then the other nuclear states can do it too. The NPT treaty is designed to REDUCE the threat of nuclear weapons and promote disarmament, it's not designed not facilitate WMD programs. Serious scholars understand this.

Furthermore yes, the resources provided in the civilian nuclear deal allow India to direct more of its own resources to its WMD program while using the resources provided by others for peaceful nuclear energy. ( A few months ago it announced that it had the ability to develop a 200 kiloton bomb.) No emoticon can undermine the simple, basic facts you want to dismiss. This isnt some fucking laughing matter. When one nuclear weapons state develops a more sophisticated weapon program aimed at another nuclear weapons state, the weaker state responds by escalating its WMD development and escalates the level of confrontation.

 

[RustyNails]

America absolutely does play favorites. If anyone is arguing otherwise, they have a very limited world view.

 

[xbhaskarx]

if the U.S. can sell nuclear technology to non-NPT members with weapons programs, then the other nuclear states can do it too.

You're not getting it, the US isn't the only country selling nuclear power to India, other countries are already selling nuclear reactors to India as well. France, Russia and the UK have already signed deals to do so, and other countries are trying to sign similar agreements with India.
So yes, other nuclear states can do it, too, and already are. And the reason is because India has no record of nuclear proliferation, unlike Pakistan, which is historically the biggest illegal seller of nuclear technology (the AQ Khan network), supplying rogue regimes like Iran, North Korea, and Libya. That's the crucial distinction that you're completely ignoring.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Hilary Clinton announced that all five permanent members support the draft resolution.
Brazil and Turkey cant stop the sanctions, they will be passed. The Security Council vote is a mere formality now. The non permanent members like Japan, Austria, Mexico wont stand against the will of the big the U.S. and EU.


Because the main Iran sanctions proponent, the U.S., is a participant in India's WMD program.

Umm, no? Check France for that one since they have been much more vocal than the U.S. regarding the Iranian nuke program.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

India should never sign the NPT.

We are surrounded by two aggressive nations who have on their own initiated Wars against us.

Even go back and look at the Kargil conflict, India didn't start it, Pakistan did. In this case, Nuclear capability really does act as a deterrent.

Oh, and India, just like US has a no first use policy.

 

[Guled]

India should never sign the NPT.

We are surrounded by two aggressive nations who have on their own initiated Wars against us.

Even go back and look at the Kargil conflict, India didn't start it, Pakistan did. In this case, Nuclear capability really does act as a deterrent.

Oh, and India, just like US has a no first use policy.

US dose not have a no first use policy, only India and China. Also, US is bullying Iran, it is not right at all. But anything to get less nukes in anyone's hands the better. what else they should be doing is cracking down on Israel and India/Pakistan, but their are our allies so only Iran gets hate. Also, why is Germany not a permeant member?

 

[Lonely1]

Also, why is Germany not a permeant member?

World War II, they lost

 

[Xeke]

I'm not worried about India going rogue.

Also, why is Germany not a permeant member?

Probably because they are responsible for the single largest human event of death and destruction.

 

[Guled]

World War II, they lost

ok, but that was over 60 years ago. I mean don't they give the 2ed or 3rd highest amount to the UN. They play just a big of a role, if not bigger, then France in foreign affairs now

 

[Deku]

You're not getting it, the US isn't the only country selling nuclear power to India, other countries are already selling nuclear reactors to India as well. France, Russia and the UK have already signed deals to do so, and other countries are trying to sign similar agreements with India.
So yes, other nuclear states can do it, too, and already are. And the reason is because India has no record of nuclear proliferation, unlike Pakistan, which is historically the biggest illegal seller of nuclear technology (the AQ Khan network), supplying rogue regimes like Iran, North Korea, and Libya. That's the crucial distinction that you're completely ignoring.

The issue is that theignoramus likely believes North Korea and Iran are not rogue regimes and have a legitimate right to threaten their neighbors with nuclear weapons, just like the great satan, the United States.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

I think its pretty obvious the US has some huge double standards.

 

[theignoramus]

You're not getting it, the US isn't the only country selling nuclear power to India, other countries are already selling nuclear reactors to India as well. France, Russia and the UK have already signed deals to do so, and other countries are trying to sign similar agreements with India.
So yes, other nuclear states can do it, too, and already are. And the reason is because India has no record of nuclear proliferation, unlike Pakistan, which is historically the biggest illegal seller of nuclear technology (the AQ Khan network), supplying rogue regimes like Iran, North Korea, and Libya. That's the crucial distinction that you're completely ignoring.

No, you're not getting my elementary point. The fundamental issue isnt proliferation. The issue is of India increasing regional tensions by accelerating its own WMD program.
U.S. State department comissars like yourself might think it's perfectly okay when India announces it can build more powerful nuclear weapons (200 kiloton) and launch 2,000 km nuclear capable missiles, but those of that appreciate history are aware that India had a nuclear standoff with Pakistan at the turn of the millenium, therefore a more sophisticated, powerful WMD program can only exacerbate the consequences of a nuclear confrontation,and increases the risk of an accidental exchange. Furthermore, Pakistan is the middle of small scale civil war with terrorist and rogue elements that would like nothing better than to exacerbate India/Pakistan tensions.

Only a fool would ignore the wider implications of India's ongoing WMD program and the civil warfare going on in Pakistan. What's happening in that region of the world is far more dangerous than Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons capability, because the chances of an Indian-Pakistani nuclear exchange are significantly greater than the chances of Iran ever using a nuclear weapon or proliferating nuclear technology to terrorists. (Even the U.S. State department knows this. Vice President Biden just recently said that he was more concerned with Pakistan's internal issues than he was with Iran's nuclear program.)

 

[theignoramus]

The issue is that theignoramus likely believes North Korea and Iran are not rogue regimes and have a legitimate right to threaten their neighbors with nuclear weapons, just like the great satan, the United States.

Nice strawman.

 

[leroidys]

Sanctions are being passed because they have failed to comply with several different UN resolutions, so, rightly or wrongly, the UN are punishing them. Quit trolling your own misleading thread.

 

[RustyNails]

Sanctions are being passed because they have failed to comply with several different UN resolutions, so, rightly or wrongly, the UN are punishing them. Quit trolling your own misleading thread.

Did you even read about the huge nuclear swap deal agreed between Brazil and Iran, under the auspices of Turkey? The swap was essentially the same deal proposed by the west earlier, but rejected by Iran.

 

[leroidys]

Did you even read about the huge nuclear swap deal agreed between Brazil and Iran, under the auspices of Turkey? The swap was essentially the same deal proposed by the west earlier, but rejected by Iran.

Yes, I did. I'm not taking sides, I'm just saying that this was the progression of events, and that it doesn't, in this way, bear comparison to the India/Pakistan/Israeli program.

 

[Deku]

Nice strawman.

its not a strawman if its true.

 

[CrocMother]

Ohhhhhh I get it! We want our friends to have the nukes and our enemies to be completely helpless and scared!

 

[emomoonbase]

Everyone should have nukes. Men, women and children. We could just wear them around our necks. They could be a form of currency.

 

[R2D4]

Everyone should have nukes. Men, women and children. We could just wear them around our necks. They could be a form of currency.

Aww the good old 1950's.

 

[Stinkles]

I'm not worried about India going rogue.



Probably because they are responsible for the single largest human event of death and destruction.

They may have instigated it, but Russia, our ally at the time, helped seal the numbers.

 

[nilbog21]

They may have instigated it, but Russia, our ally at the time, helped seal the numbers.

lol what the fuck does this mean

 

[RustyNails]

lol what the fuck does this mean

OuterWorldVoice
drunk, naked and uncooperative

 

[scorcho]

WTF... The difference between Iran and India/Pakistan is that Iran signed and ratified the NPT.

So did the US, which means we're violating the spirit of the NPT by providing a non-signatory nuclear technology. We can't simultaneously hold ourselves as enforcers of the treaty while simultaneously undermining it as we wish.

 

[SUPREME1]

I trust India a lot more than I do Iran or Pakistan.

 

[Walshicus]

Probably because they are responsible for the single largest human event of death and destruction.

Didn't think they had anything to do with the war between China and the Taiping Kingdom.

 

[Stinkles]

lol what the fuck does this mean

It means the Russians were responsible for a significant portion of the human casualties in WW2.

 

[coldvein]

Didn't think they had anything to do with the war between China and the Taiping Kingdom.

OH SNAPZ!!!

 

[Darackutny]

As the world focuses on the World Cup, things seem to be getting pretty serious for Iran.

I believe that this is thread worthy, but my thread creation privileges have been taken away from me.

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=281041

ISRAEL 'PLOTS TEHRAN RAID'

Posted on » Saturday, June 26, 2010


MANAMA: Israel is massing warplanes in the Caucasus for an attack on Iran, it was revealed yesterday.

Preparations are underway to launch the military attack from Azerbaijan and Georgia, reports our sister paper Akhbar Al Khaleej, quoting military sources.

Israel was, in fact, training pilots in Turkey to launch the strike and was smuggling planes into Georgia using Turkish airspace, they said.

However, Turkey was unaware of Israel's intention of transferring the planes to Georgia, the sources said.

The unexpected crisis between Israel and Turkey following an Israeli commando raid on an aid flotilla bound for Gaza Strip hit Israeli calculations.

Azerbaijan-based intelligence units, working under the cover of technicians, trainers and consultants, have helped with the preparations, the sources said.

Military equipment, mostly supplied by the US, was transported to a Georgian port via the Black Sea.

Georgian coastguard and Israeli controllers are co-operating to hide the operations from Russian vessels, said the sources.

They point out that according to Israel, it will not be in a position to launch a strike on Iran without using bases in Georgia and Azerbaijan due to the limited capabilities of its nuclear submarines stationed near the Iranian coast.

Meanwhile, Iran's Press TV reported that a very large contingent of US ground forces had massed in Azerbaijan, near the Iranian border. The independent Azerbaijani news website Trend confirmed the report.

Those reports came just days after the Pentagon confirmed that an unusually large fleet of US warships had indeed passed through Egypt's Suez Canal en route to the Gulf. At least one Israeli warship reportedly joined the American armada.

Press TV also quoted Iranian Revolultionary Guard Brigadier General Mehdi Moini as saying that the country's forces are mobilised and ready to face Israelli and American "misadventures" near its borders.

* Iran last night said it has cancelled plans to send an aid ship to the Gaza Strip as Israel "had sent a letter to the UN saying that the presence of Iranian and Lebanese ships in the Gaza area will be considered a declaration of war on that regime and it will confront it," Irna said.

 

[leroy hacker]

Also, here's something else that didn't get a lot of attention, that was reported right before the flotilla incident:

Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran

 

[Roude Leiw]

well that doesn't sound that good if it's true.