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[It's Jeff]

Fuck Romulans. You've got a problem? Go see if your Klingon friends want to help. Wait, you don't have any. The Ferengi might rent you a moon to settle on, but you want cable and running water? That's going to cost you. You signed a non aggression pact with the Dominion, you think we don't remember that shit?

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Federation citizens.

 

[Harlock]

I remember Patrick Stewart complaining about Kill Bill movie years ago. For most good Picard was written, the actor is kinda of dumb. Now is possible he has a match script.

 

[GreyHorace]

This is precisely the difference these modern woke writers and sadly many in this thread aren't understanding.

Both of these interpretations of the Cardassian/Bajoran conflict are valid, as are several other comparrisons I can think of, because the writers took real world problems and used them as inspiration for their story.

They resonate with us today, as do even the stories using the politics of the 1960's, because they speak to real world problems we can all understand, taken objectively, superimposed on a fictional setting and people that only share the problems, not the actual specific issues, and paint it with an optimistic, futurist bent that looks at how our basic shared humanity could overcome it, usually through compromise and understanding.

The current woke tripe just takes whatever politics they don't like, reduce it to a strawman caricature, change the names and drop it into a setting it stands out like a sore thumb in.

It's just spiteful hate and public ridicule of the people in real life they disagree with and despise, which makes for bad entertainment and most of the audience either feeling directly insulted or embarrassed to associated with it.

 

[Zog]

I always thought it was more about Israel ans Palestine with the whole emphasis on the Cardassian "occupation" of Bajor and all.

Isn't this the point though, they left it open to interpretation instead of saying 'we are taking on Nazi Germany'.

I think I don't need to keep CBS All Access anymore.

 

[cryptoadam]

Its not about social issues, Star Trek was always trying to prevent a future Utopia that was inclusive and people moved beyond our petty disputes.

Its that its being woke in a specific direction where its going to call out all Brexiters and Trumpers as racist POS.

I think there is a place for nuanced political commentary, but this sounds like its just going to be ORANGE MAN BAD and BRITISH MAN BAD.

 

[lock2k]

Ya know, It's all good pandering to the 'woke' left or the 'alt-right'

what about people who just don't give a fuck about politics?

Amen! Fuck politics. Politics-free entertainment is the best.

 

[nikolino840]

 

[oagboghi2]

You and everyone here don't even know how this will be written other than clickbait titles and hot takes. My family has stories about the reactions to the multi-cultural crew, especially the kiss, from the very original Star Trek.

How did it help the show back then? They could've made the entire crew white, but they didn't, and the public reacted accordingly to the point the only way the stories were closed are by a bunch of movies.

The shows were as good as they were back then because they tackled issues and pushed buttons while the issues we're fresh in public memory.

I don't remember this amount of discourse at anything that drew relations to the bush-era let alone Clinton. But it's better to be ignorant and angry than reasonable I guess.

What makes you think they will write subtle and intelligent stories. Did you see Discovery? Did that scream 'subtle' to you.

They are going to push woke lecturing that speaks down to people. I'm basing that off of what is being released today. Not reaching into the past from 40 years ago

 

[MisterHero]

This is the plot of Star Trek VI, except the Federation and its captain's viewpoints are switched.

I will watch Picard for the scifi individual stories, hoping that this overarching narrative isn't too cynical.

 

[DeafTourette]

This is the plot of Star Trek VI, except the Federation and its captain's viewpoints are switched.

I will watch Picard for the scifi individual stories, hoping that this overarching narrative isn't too cynical.

Thank you!

 

[Setzer]

Yeah, Frakes on the far right.. what?

That isn't Frakes on the far right, it's Rick Berman.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This is precisely the difference these modern woke writers and sadly many in this thread aren't understanding.

Both of these interpretations of the Cardassian/Bajoran conflict are valid, as are several other comparrisons I can think of, because the writers took real world problems and used them as inspiration for their story.

They resonate with us today, as do even the stories using the politics of the 1960's, because they speak to real world problems we can all understand, taken objectively, superimposed on a fictional setting and people that only share the problems, not the actual specific issues, and paint it with an optimistic, futurist bent that looks at how our basic shared humanity could overcome it, usually through compromise and understanding.

The current woke tripe just takes whatever politics they don't like, reduce it to a strawman caricature, change the names and drop it into a setting it stands out like a sore thumb in.

It's just spiteful hate and public ridicule of the people in real life they disagree with and despise, which makes for bad entertainment and most of the audience either feeling directly insulted or embarrassed to associated with it.

This video from last year really summed up my frustration with the handling of modern Star Trek vs older seasons



It's not that Star Trek is including social issues in the first place, that's not the complaint. The earlier franchises allowed the characters to act out different sides of the argument, disagree with one another, make choices based on those beliefs, and often suffer the consequences. Or, one character might finally get what they demanded but they are gut-punched by an unexpected side-effect. The Cardassian vs Bajoran subplot was handled really well, I agree.

Modern Trek is declaring something to be "right" and then punishing the characters (usually the antagonists, but sometimes the other crew members) with an in-your-face lesson about why they were "wrong". It feels like moralizing in a way that older Enterprises did not.

And it (obviously) isn't the content itself, because we can objectively point to episodes where "controversial" topics were aired on an episode of Trek without the fans rejecting the show. You can't say fans reject modern Trek because it has strong women, they've been in the show pretty much since the start (relative to its time period, in fairness). You can't say fans reject Trek because it tackles issues of racial inequality and racial discrimination. Entire sub-plots and character arcs are devoted to that specific topic.

Seeing the heroes win against a strawman just isn't entertaining, first and foremost. The ideologies being presented? Eh, it doesn't bother me. It's the hamfisted, pea-brained delivery that makes it dull.

 

[highrider]

I’m just going to continue to ignore content like this. It’s unfortunate that these companies, actors and producers feel like it’s ok to do that, which of course they are free to, but it’s so arrogant and sanctimonious. Fuck em.

 

[OP 90s JRPG Party Member]

Star Trek was always woke.

first interracial kiss on television.

They just did a great job at telling great stories and not bashing you over the head with it.

I think this article is reaching. This is not ghostbusters. Calm down and let it play out.

Yeah, but there's a difference though. That was in service of portraying a utopian future. Star Trek has done allegories for real world events before, for instance Deep Space Nine had a lot of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in it. But it wasn't at the expense of portraying the Federation as xenophobic & isolationist. It would make sense that there would be friction if an old enemy like the Romulans suddenly started living in the Federation en masse. But trying to draw parallels with Brexit & Trump - the negative sides of which are about defending a monoculture, something the Federation abjectly is not - doesn't make sense. It's betraying a core concept of the series, that the future doesn't have to be dystopian and plagued by all the problems that trouble our own time, we can get past them.

 

[nikolino840]

Soooo woke (jocking, i'm ironic)

 

[Trogdor1123]

Given Picard's character in the past this makes sense.

 

[DiscoJer]

There was an episode of TNG that was about the ozone layer or global warming or somesuch; basically they learned that using warp drive was hurting the fabric of the universe.

So they promised they would slow down.

Force of Nature (episode)

Investigating the disappearance of several ships, the Enterprise discovers two scientists who claim that warp drive is destructive to the fabric of subspace. Lieutenant Commander Data arrives at Geordi La Forge's quarters to take back Spot after La Forge borrowed her temporarily to experience...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

But then they completely ignored it in all future shows.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Cant wait to see a bunch of Hollywood millionaires tell us that we have nothing to fear by living with the Star trek equivalent of Krogan and Vorcha, and that the disproportionate amounts of crime and violence that they would inevitably commit is humanity's fault, because we werent nice enough to them :/

 

[SidViscous]

Cant wait to see a bunch of Hollywood millionaires tell us that we have nothing to fear by living with the Star trek equivalent of Krogan and Vorcha, and that the disproportionate amounts of crime and violence that they would inevitably commit is humanity's fault, because we werent nice enough to them :/

Fuck off with that Kroganphobic attitude. I'd totally be down with living next door to a Krogan family, no noisy kids for a start.

Jeri Ryan looks great still, did she suck the life out of the others or something?

 

[Yoshi]

This video from last year really summed up my frustration with the handling of modern Star Trek vs older seasons

This video compelled me to, for the first time in my adult life, watch something I have not purchased (because, thank you, CBS, not available in any form in my country). I could not believe this is an actual piece of Star Trek media. It is. I am devastated. The video is not even exaggerating. It is this bad. Unbelievable.

 

[Clear]

Trek has been around for over 50 years, meaning that there are a lot of fans of the show from older generations, crucially the sort of generations that still watch TV.

Now consider the political leanings of that demographic and their likely reaction to having fashionably "woke" politics and attitudes jammed clumsily into their entertainment... So dumb.

 

[EviLore]

This video from last year really summed up my frustration with the handling of modern Star Trek vs older seasons

Holy shit. What a travesty.

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

Jesus, Trump really does live rent free in their minds. Good lord. Get over it people. You’re making me hate you even more by constantly bringing him up in every fucking conversation and medium.

 

[VulcanRaven]

I haven't watched Star Trek but I wouldn't have a problem if some show criticized politician I like. The creators can have opinions that I don't agree with.

 

[Yoshi]

Trek has been around for over 50 years, meaning that there are a lot of fans of the show from older generations, crucially the sort of generations that still watch TV.

Now consider the political leanings of that demographic and their likely reaction to having fashionably "woke" politics and attitudes jammed clumsily into their entertainment... So dumb.

Conservative leaning Star Trek fans will always have had to be tolerant of a leftist view of the future in Star Trek, that is not an issue I think. But if the series starts to be a ridiculous parody of surface-level social justice talking points like that video DunDunDunpachi posted above (and still makes me angry), then they will have an issue. Not only with conservative Star Trek fans, but also with a good portion of the left-leaning ones. When I watched that video, I was convinced it must have been some weird anti-sjw channel making up a bad carricature of "white men are trash"-talking point modern Star Trek that just does not exist. Only the production value made me even consider the possibility it is real and upon watching it... at one point, for no reason at all, the man stands in the room without pants and stutters "I am not an idiot" all the time. And that is after watching Discovery Season 1 & 2. Why do these people have to piss on the grave of Star Trek?

 

[Shizumapower]

'If Reddit had a writers room.'

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Don't worry guys we still have Star Gate, they haven't been screwed up yet. Please.

Maybe it's time to bring back that Buck Rogers guy.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

This video from last year really summed up my frustration with the handling of modern Star Trek vs older seasons



It's not that Star Trek is including social issues in the first place, that's not the complaint. The earlier franchises allowed the characters to act out different sides of the argument, disagree with one another, make choices based on those beliefs, and often suffer the consequences. Or, one character might finally get what they demanded but they are gut-punched by an unexpected side-effect. The Cardassian vs Bajoran subplot was handled really well, I agree.

Modern Trek is declaring something to be "right" and then punishing the characters (usually the antagonists, but sometimes the other crew members) with an in-your-face lesson about why they were "wrong". It feels like moralizing in a way that older Enterprises did not.

And it (obviously) isn't the content itself, because we can objectively point to episodes where "controversial" topics were aired on an episode of Trek without the fans rejecting the show. You can't say fans reject modern Trek because it has strong women, they've been in the show pretty much since the start (relative to its time period, in fairness). You can't say fans reject Trek because it tackles issues of racial inequality and racial discrimination. Entire sub-plots and character arcs are devoted to that specific topic.

Seeing the heroes win against a strawman just isn't entertaining, first and foremost. The ideologies being presented? Eh, it doesn't bother me. It's the hamfisted, pea-brained delivery that makes it dull.

Is that supposed to be a parody episode though? It has the Bob's Burgers guy and this just seems like a cringey joke on purpose.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Is that supposed to be a parody episode though? It has the Bob's Burgers guy and this just seems like a cringey joke on purpose.

It was a tribbles episode. I mean, was Star Wars: Holiday Special a parody episode or just awful?

 

[Kenpachii]

This video from last year really summed up my frustration with the handling of modern Star Trek vs older seasons



It's not that Star Trek is including social issues in the first place, that's not the complaint. The earlier franchises allowed the characters to act out different sides of the argument, disagree with one another, make choices based on those beliefs, and often suffer the consequences. Or, one character might finally get what they demanded but they are gut-punched by an unexpected side-effect. The Cardassian vs Bajoran subplot was handled really well, I agree.

Modern Trek is declaring something to be "right" and then punishing the characters (usually the antagonists, but sometimes the other crew members) with an in-your-face lesson about why they were "wrong". It feels like moralizing in a way that older Enterprises did not.

And it (obviously) isn't the content itself, because we can objectively point to episodes where "controversial" topics were aired on an episode of Trek without the fans rejecting the show. You can't say fans reject modern Trek because it has strong women, they've been in the show pretty much since the start (relative to its time period, in fairness). You can't say fans reject Trek because it tackles issues of racial inequality and racial discrimination. Entire sub-plots and character arcs are devoted to that specific topic.

Seeing the heroes win against a strawman just isn't entertaining, first and foremost. The ideologies being presented? Eh, it doesn't bother me. It's the hamfisted, pea-brained delivery that makes it dull.

That video looks like straight up comedy level of bad.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

It was a tribbles episode. I mean, was Star Wars: Holiday Special a parody episode or just awful?

It looks like a bad parody episode, like some of those awful X-Files ones they did.

Holiday Special was just that and a weird product of its time.

But yeah I guess that ST episode was actually canon in-universe and it's cringe af. Discovery is such a trainwreck in makes TLJ look good.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It looks like a bad parody episode, like some of those awful X-Files ones they did.

Holiday Special was just that and a weird product of its time.

But yeah I guess that ST episode was actually canon in-universe and it's cringe af. Discovery is such a trainwreck in makes TLJ look good.

To be honest I hated the writing in the other Discovery episodes I watched so maybe my attitude was tainted against taking it as a more lighthearted parody.

To the topic, it's worth pointing out that Patrick Stewart is currently starring in ads about the refugee crisis



This is a noble concern, but here is the website his ad links to:

The IRC

The International Rescue Committee (IRC) responds to the world’s worst humanitarian crises and helps people to survive and rebuild their lives. Find out how you can help the IRC offer lifesaving care and life-changing assistance to refugees forced to flee from war or disaster.

www.rescue.org

When the producers announce the intentions to "take on Trump and Brexit" while supporting charities that oppose Trump, it lends the impression that they're making it political. That's not a stretch.

I guess let me hammer the point home by asking: was Deep Space 9 announced as a complex look into the Israel-Palestine conflict ahead of time, or is that just one of the many issues the series happened to cover?

 

[Darkmakaimura]

To be honest I hated the writing in the other Discovery episodes I watched so maybe my attitude was tainted against taking it as a more lighthearted parody.

To the topic, it's worth pointing out that Patrick Stewart is currently starring in ads about the refugee crisis



This is a noble concern, but here is the website his ad links to:

The IRC

The International Rescue Committee (IRC) responds to the world’s worst humanitarian crises and helps people to survive and rebuild their lives. Find out how you can help the IRC offer lifesaving care and life-changing assistance to refugees forced to flee from war or disaster.

www.rescue.org

When the producers announce the intentions to "take on Trump and Brexit" while supporting charities that oppose Trump, it lends the impression that they're making it political. That's not a stretch.

I guess let me hammer the point home by asking: was Deep Space 9 announced as a complex look into the Israel-Palestine conflict ahead of time, or is that just one of the many issues the series happened to cover?

I'm glad to hear Sir Patrick Stewart is willing to take people into his most-likely gated and/or walled off mega-home.

But yeah that Discovery short came off to me as light-hearted parody. I mean it has Bob Burgers dude and all. But it was still cringey af even for parody. I'm almost hoping this wasn't meant as in-universe canon but most likely is.

 

[Leprech]

Honestly I'm surprised that people here are complaining like suddenly Star Trek wasn't taking on social issues before this.

-Integration of races into American society and minorities in positions of power
-The rise of homelessness in America (There's literally an episode talking about late stage capitalism and tent cities in 2020 America)
-Militarism against citizens (the amount of cities with army gear now are insane)
-Sexism and Feminism towards Women

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Why is this different?

cmon lol gullible?

 

[TrainedRage]

He isn't even ACTING like Picard. Its like he forgot the character.

PASS!!!!!

 

[nikolino840]

 

[Grinchy]

You could make a bingo card with all the complaints people have about Hitler and it doesn't make those complaints any less valid. The bingo card thing has always been such a dumb "argument."

 

[Yoshi]

Too much politics? Who complains about that in Star Trek? In fact, "not nearly enough politics" is a major issue in all modern Star Trek. Also, what is the point "teeny boppers" supposed to mean?

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Clear]

Conservative leaning Star Trek fans will always have had to be tolerant of a leftist view of the future in Star Trek, that is not an issue I think. But if the series starts to be a ridiculous parody of surface-level social justice talking points like that video DunDunDunpachi posted above (and still makes me angry), then they will have an issue. Not only with conservative Star Trek fans, but also with a good portion of the left-leaning ones. When I watched that video, I was convinced it must have been some weird anti-sjw channel making up a bad carricature of "white men are trash"-talking point modern Star Trek that just does not exist. Only the production value made me even consider the possibility it is real and upon watching it... at one point, for no reason at all, the man stands in the room without pants and stutters "I am not an idiot" all the time. And that is after watching Discovery Season 1 & 2. Why do these people have to piss on the grave of Star Trek?

People who were "progressive" in their outlook in the 60's and 70's have an entirely different perspective than today's "woke" brigade. Back then lets not forget the goal then was equality, everyone being treated with the same respect regardless of race, culture, or ethnicity. It was humanistic.

Nowadays its entirely rhetorical, and in practice the exact opposite methodology to reaching the utopian dream. One where its legitimate to discriminate against groups in order to "level the playing field". Its fucking gross, especially as it requires an controlling elite of our supposed moral "betters" to determine who deserves what.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

People who were "progressive" in their outlook in the 60's and 70's have an entirely different perspective than today's "woke" brigade. Back then lets not forget the goal then was equality, everyone being treated with the same respect regardless of race, culture, or ethnicity. It was humanistic.

Nowadays its entirely rhetorical, and in practice the exact opposite methodology to reaching the utopian dream. One where its legitimate to discriminate against groups in order to "level the playing field". Its fucking gross, especially as it requires an controlling elite of our supposed moral "betters" to determine who deserves what.

It's pretty smart. Academia in the West has long claimed intellectual superiority over the masses in an attempt to implement their utopian ideals. Marxism wasn't born in a humble manger, let me put it that way.

Now instead of wagging fingers and saying "do what we say because we're smarter", they took a hint from organized religion and changed it to "do what we say or else you're racist".

 

[Yoshi]

People who were "progressive" in their outlook in the 60's and 70's have an entirely different perspective than today's "woke" brigade. Back then lets not forget the goal then was equality, everyone being treated with the same respect regardless of race, culture, or ethnicity. It was humanistic.

Nowadays its entirely rhetorical, and in practice the exact opposite methodology to reaching the utopian dream. One where its legitimate to discriminate against groups in order to "level the playing field". Its fucking gross, especially as it requires an controlling elite of our supposed moral "betters" to determine who deserves what.

No matter what you think about a "woke brigade", people who share the general ideas of an idealistic society from Star Trek are still a major part of the left. People who value:
- a discrimination free society, where sex, ethnicity and disabilities do not predetermine your way in life in any way
- a fair distribution of wealth where everyone has enough to live comfortably
- a focus on science and discovery
- an open society
- respect of other lifeforms and societies
- being focussed on resolving conflict peacefully be gaining mutual understanding
- a society where supersition has been largely overcome
- a society that values preservation of nature / the universe and lifeforms

These remain the core of a leftist utopia even thirty years after TNG launched and STP being political in the sense of telling a story about restoring this utopia and solving moral dilemmas on the way towards that would be absolutely on point for Star Trek. If, however, the current writer's understanding of a leftist utopia is "white man is an idiot wears no pants", then they misunderstand leftist ideology and Star Trek fundamentally.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

No matter what you think about a "woke brigade", people who share the general ideas of an idealistic society from Star Trek are still a major part of the left. People who value:
- a discrimination free society, where sex, ethnicity and disabilities do not predetermine your way in life in any way
- a fair distribution of wealth where everyone has enough to live comfortably
- a focus on science and discovery
- an open society
- respect of other lifeforms and societies
- being focussed on resolving conflict peacefully be gaining mutual understanding
- a society where supersition has been largely overcome
- a society that values preservation of nature / the universe and lifeforms

These remain the core of a leftist utopia even thirty years after TNG launched and STP being political in the sense of telling a story about restoring this utopia and solving moral dilemmas on the way towards that would be absolutely on point for Star Trek. If, however, the current writer's understanding of a leftist utopia is "white man is an idiot wears no pants", then they misunderstand leftist ideology and Star Trek fundamentally.

But Yoshi, constantly showing off "strong woman wears all the pants" and "white man idiot wears zero pants" is exactly the means by which they hope to bring about the utopia. Changing all the white supremacist / deplorable minds via their favorite TV shows is one avenue out of many. Another avenue was infiltrating the videogame hobby and vigorously chasing out any Wrongthink.

What do you think all the harping about "equal representation in media" and "need more strong [minority] to combat systemic racism" has been about? There is no need to guess. They womansplain it to us all via Twitter and sympathetic media outlets.

The modern Trek writers believe the same things you described. They're just attempting to bring it about 1984 style instead of through goodwill, compassion, and mutual respect.

 

[Yoshi]

But Yoshi, constantly showing off "strong woman wears all the pants" and "white man idiot wears zero pants" is exactly the means by which they hope to bring about the utopia. Changing all the white supremacist / deplorable minds via their favorite TV shows is one avenue out of many. Another avenue was infiltrating the videogame hobby and vigorously chasing out any Wrongthink.

What do you think all the harping about "equal representation in media" and "need more strong [minority] to combat systemic racism" has been about? There is no need to guess. They womansplain it to us all via Twitter and sympathetic media outlets.

The modern Trek writers believe the same things you described. They're just attempting to bring it about 1984 style instead of through goodwill, compassion, and mutual respect.

Revenge is not a route to a discrimination free society.

 

[nikolino840]

- being focussed on resolving conflict peacefully be gaining mutual understanding

Worf don't like this

 

[BadBurger]

Worf don't like this

Wow Worf did get shit on a lot huh.

 

[Clear]

It's pretty smart. Academia in the West has long claimed intellectual superiority over the masses in an attempt to implement their utopian ideals. Marxism wasn't born in a humble manger, let me put it that way.

Now instead of wagging fingers and saying "do what we say because we're smarter", they took a hint from organized religion and changed it to "do what we say or else you're racist".

Yeah, the coercive aspect is the most horrific thing. Its not elevating anything or anyone, its just oppressive.

Yoshi

60's style liberalism was based on individualism and freedom of expression, present day progressivism is about collectvism and restraints on speech and behavior. It may share a label, but its a whole other politics.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Revenge is not a route to a discrimination free society.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Trek always had political stuff in it but tbh I am just sceptical of any “political” stuff that deals with Trump. It tends to be the most basic stupid mainstream takes that you already hear a million times a day. I mean we aren’t talking the nuances of nuclear proliferation here.

This kind of shit annoys me to no end. We know her agents talked to his agents before this whole deal what is with the fake “inviting you to be on a show on your tv show”. Like she is going to say no or “let me talk to my agent”

I mean cool I guess it’s just pathetic when they try so hard to create a viral moment

 

[MaxB]

Sir Patrick Stewart Says New ‘Star Trek’ Series Will Take On Trump, Brexit

The new “Star Trek” series starring Sir Patrick Stewart isn’t being explicitly billed as “woke,” but it seems the series’ star, who will reprise his role as the legendary Enterprise captain, Jean-Luc Picard, believes “Star Trek: Picard” will have a message for anti-immigrant leaders and global...

www.dailywire.com

I mean, I wasn't expecting Patrick to be in favor of Trump or Brexit. but this is getting ridiculous. I am not a superfan of Trump, or invested in politics enough to give a hoot. but it's outright jarring to see Star Trek do weird shit like this for the sake of relevance (I actually think the 2009 film was a bad omen of sorts)

What is so jarring about this? The Star Trek series, carrying on the mission of its creator, has always tapped into the Zeitgeist to promote a positive and hopeful vision of the future. Mining the current climate for ideas, using the ugliness of Trump and Brexit as examples of humanity at its worst, seems entirely in line with how Roddenberry approached the creation of this world.