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New study suggests lying affects self esteem

StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Days like these... said:
I get that but I wonder why lying causes stress.
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Probably because it’s human nature to worry if you get found out lying like a creep.

Just be yourself and it’s easy street to post on social media or forums or talking to people face to face. No worries about making up stories, filtering pics, standing in front of a sports car you clearly don’t own hoping Instagram followers think you own a Mercedes etc….

Don’t get me wrong. When I post on FB, I’m going to choose decent pics and not ones where my fly is open or my eyes are closed looking like a goof. But end of the day they are still just normal friends and fam pics hanging out at a pub or baseball game.

I’ve also never paid for professional photos. Not even my LinkedIn profile pic is one of those fake looking studio pics. It’s just a normal headshot pic of me a coworker took of me at the office.
 
ÆMNE22A!C

ÆMNE22A!C

NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
Kar said:
Truth is liberating.
Lying causes stress.
More stress = more cortisol.
More cortisol = less self esteem.

Cause and effect.
Click to expand...

not only less self esteem.

It's a complex matter imo regarding lying. Context and effect are so inherently tied to lying.... or omission a certain % of an objective or subjective "truth" quite interesting.
 
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ÆMNE22A!C

ÆMNE22A!C

NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
I don't think you are stupid. Not lying, pun intended. Not saying something like I posted above is a form of lying I suppose. On this planet there's mass lying taking place EACH YEAR. But hey the kids arw happy.

It's a two sided sword. Protection? Hiding? What's the context? Etc etc
 
ÆMNE22A!C

ÆMNE22A!C

NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
AJUMP23 said:
Even when they appear innocent like exaggerating about things. It just builds distrust in the long run.
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Again.... It's officially "lying" but mostly forcing a more X perspective on someone/thing. It's very nuanced and complex imho.
 
D

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
22•22 said:
I don't think you are stupid. Not lying, pun intended. Not saying something like I posted above is a form of lying I suppose. On this planet there's mass lying taking place EACH YEAR. But hey the kids arw happy.

It's a two sided sword. Protection? Hiding? What's the context? Etc etc
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Those are most certainly words. Can someone translate English is not my first language
 
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D

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
22•22 said:
Why are you being an asshole?
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BfLgnu2.jpg
 
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Humdinger

Humdinger

Gold Member
Why does lying lower self-esteem? Because self-esteem is our reputation with ourselves -- based on our observations of our own behavior -- and by lying, we are showing ourself (to ourself) to be kind of shitty people. No one likes dishonesty. There is no culture on earth that admires people who are dishonest. Honesty is almost universally admired -- especially when it's tough. So we are just wired to find lying shady, crummy behavior.

Of course, there are exceptions. I'm talking about lying in general, and lying as a characteristic pattern.

Here's another angle. Most ordinary lying -- the type that happens (very frequently) in the course of normal, daily conversation -- is motivated by approval-seeking or disapproval-avoiding. When we do that, we are prioritizing other's opinion of us over our own perspective/opinion/feeling whatever. That is a position of weakness. At some level, unless we are pretty well self-deluded, we know that we are faking ourselves in order to garner thumbs-ups or avoid disapproval. That lowers self-esteem, too. We're acting as if we are afraid of others, and we accurately assess that behavior as wimpy.
 
Peggies

Peggies

Gold Member
AJUMP23 said:
For some reason many people lie when the truth will suffice.
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Oh God, I'm ike that. Especially when being asked a question.

Once I was asked "Are you a dancer?" And I said "Yes".

To this day I don't know why but it seemed easier to me than to say "No".

Shrugs GIF
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
"Your worst sin is that you have destroyed and betrayed yourself for nothing. Isn’t that fearful? Isn’t it fearful that you are living in this filth which you loathe so, and at the same time you know yourself (you’ve only to open your eyes) that you are not helping anyone by it, not saving anyone from anything?"

-Dostoevsky
 
D

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
EviLore said:
"Your worst sin is that you have destroyed and betrayed yourself for nothing. Isn’t that fearful? Isn’t it fearful that you are living in this filth which you loathe so, and at the same time you know yourself (you’ve only to open your eyes) that you are not helping anyone by it, not saving anyone from anything?"

-Dostoevsky
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“to renounce the truths is the sole method of making up with life, of leaving the path of knowledge, of the intolerable one to tolerable one.”

-Cioran
Diametrically opposed takes
 
I_D

I_D

Member
Days like these... said:
*Sigh* I'm wondering where down the evolutionary line we evolved into feeling bad for lying and why. I'm not as stupid as you presume.
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I think it's just a form of peacocking.

Why would a person lie unless he/she was trying to hide something? The truth is 100%, all of the time, more effective at being convincing (or, at least, a facsimile of the truth, such as religion and other weird beliefs).
So there must be some reason to lie, surely.
Maybe that person is trying to exaggerate, or diminish, or anything in between; but the point is to hide something.

So, surely, that means this person knows he/she is wrong, but is still continuing to lie, anyway.
Because the person knows he/she is wrong, but does it anyway, that person feels shame and a lessening of self-esteem: That person had to lie to succeed, instead of actually achieving.


But, in terms of evolution, the reasoning is pretty simple: I, as an organism, want to get to the top. As such, I will do/say/believe anything to achieve reaching the top.
Thus, peacocking was created.
 
Humdinger

Humdinger

Gold Member
Days like these... said:
*Sigh* I'm wondering where down the evolutionary line we evolved into feeling bad for lying and why. I'm not as stupid as you presume.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure when it evolved, but the reasons why it evolved are pretty straightforward. We are social animals, and our survival depends on cooperation. Cooperating with others depends on trust. Trust depends on honesty. If you are dishonest, I can't trust you. If I can't trust you, I will find it more difficult to cooperate effectively with you.

For example, let's say we are out on a hunt together. I need to trust you to play your role in that hunt. I need you to have my back if necessary. If you have been dishonest in other circumstances, you have ruined my ability to trust you. If you're going to cheat and be dishonest in other circumstances, how can I trust you to have integrity in this one? I can't. And it's not a matter of getting your feelings hurt or something -- whether I can trust you is a matter of survival, because success of the hunt = survival.

Another example would be the distribution of food. If I can't trust you because you've been dishonest in other circumstances, how can I trust that you will "play fair" when it comes to the distribution of food? I can't. So there are escalating tensions, possible fractures and fights.

So, there is a very clear line between honesty, trust, and the ability to cooperate effectively as a group. And those things are intimately linked to survival. We need to cooperate to survive. If we lie to each other, our trust in each other weakens. If you can't trust others, then cooperation breaks down. And survival depends on cooperation. Dishonesty imperils the survival of the tribe.

Honesty, and concerns about honesty, have clear survival value. As a result, they have been heavily selected for over time. That's the evo-psych answer, anyhow.

(Btw, deception skills would also be selected for over time.)


(edited for clarity)
 
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TheDreadBaron

TheDreadBaron

Member
I think it's just like cheating to win a game. You know you didn't earn it honestly and so there's no feeling of satisfaction with winning, only an empty feeling knowing you don't deserve the reward.

The lack of self esteem is the result of feeling like an impostor knowing you didn't earn what you have honestly.
 
Hot5pur

Hot5pur

Gold Member
For narcissists lying is second nature. Anything to get their way.

Personally I hate lying. It makes me feel sick and worthless. I had other people in my life force me to lie as a child and it's the worst feeling. Talk about compromising on your values and true self.
 
John Marston

John Marston

GAF's very own treasure goblin
Beanbox said:
Honesty without compassion is cruelty.
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I'm talking about a Lead from another team asking me "What do you think of Bob have you ever worked with him?"

Well Bob is an assclown with 10 years seniority who consistently flies under the radar. He's the definition of "dead weight".

Or being given shit by my 38 year old friend because I did not attend his birthday party and recently did not want to go see a movie with him.

How old are we 12?

Just sayin' 🤠
 
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StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Beanbox said:
Honesty without compassion is cruelty.
Click to expand...
That reminds me of psychology class in first year university. Only thing I remember from that class is that survival triangle of needs states and the prof saying asking us out of all the virtues out there, what's more important? Honesty or compassion? Do you honestly say someone is ugly? Or lie and say they arent?........... then again maybe it was sociology class I took that had this stuff. I forget. But in year one business, everyone had to take a handful of arts classes.

There wasnt a clear answer. All his point was when it comes to those kinds of traits there is no formal ranking which one is better to do than the other.
 
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Mistake

Mistake

Member
StreetsofBeige said:
That reminds me of psychology class in first year university. Only thing I remember from that class is that survival triangle of needs states and the prof saying asking us out of all the virtues out there, what's more important? Honesty or compassion? Do you honestly say someone is ugly? Or lie and say they arent?........... then again maybe it was sociology class I took that had this stuff. I forget. But in year one business, everyone had to take a handful of arts classes.

There wasnt a clear answer. All his point was when it comes to those kinds of traits there is no formal ranking which one is better to do than the other.
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That is a good question. Depends a bit on the issue exactly, but my policy is compassion through honesty. The truth hurts, but those who actually care will be straight with you and not be a jerk about it. I've spoken about this concept to various people I know, and I found that many women don't agree with it.
 
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Alcibiades

Alcibiades

Member
I used to lie a lot and put up a front about things. In some ways still do unfortunately but I've come along way.

I think Sam Harris saved my life in this matter. I listened to his Lying short book and took it to heart. I think I had already started on that road to "truthfulness" but his book really stamped the point.

Now I'm probably one of the most honest people I know, for sure within family and friends I keep in touch with.

It's kinda tough sometimes because sometimes I don't correct people or give full information to work with and its sort of a gray area. For example, I'm gay and colleagues at work may insinuate I have interest in a particular woman and I'll laugh it up and say "no way" . Like not my problem they are making assumptions. But when outright asked I'm very likely to say the truth or something like "I'd prefer not to discuss".

Also, I haven't come out to all my immediate family yet but I also over the last 15 years or so haven't said anything to indicate interest in a woman.

I've been quite truthful about when I've made mistakes and did something wrong. I'll own up in advance sometimes before even been asked. I still get nervous but not as much as if I had lied.

I also don't tell even white lies generally. It takes getting used to but it's such a relief compared to having lies hanging over your head.

Sam Harris's professor also has YouTube videos and has good advice.

EDIT: Another tough part is the whole societal/political/cultural viewpoint thing. Although I won't outright lie sometimes I'll say less that clear things cause things have gotten so bad in our society on that front.
 
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