New TV - DTM (Dynamic Tone Mapping) and HGIG

R6Rider

R6Rider

Gold Member
My new TV arrived today and I'm been messing around with settings and testing it out.

My older TV (TCL R635) didn't have any HGIG or DTM settings (at least that I was ever aware of) and my new TV has several for DTM:

Off (essentially enabling HGIG), Detail Priority, Balanced, and Brightness Priority.

With my current settings it seems that DTM vastly increases the (maximum) brightness or at least the range. I haven't tested it in many games, but I fear that in darker games it might actually make them too bright?

I'm currently playing Death Stranding with it set to Detail Priority. Maybe it's a setting that should be turned on or off depending on the game? Does anyone have experience with these settings for various titles or perhaps games that look better with HGIG or vice versa?
 
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R6Rider said:
My new TV arrived today and I'm been messing around with settings and testing it out.

My older TV (TCL R635) didn't have any HGIG or DTM settings (at least that I was ever aware of) and my new TV has several for DTM:

Off (essentially enabling HGIG), Detail Priority, Balanced, and Brightness Priority.

With my current settings it seems that DTM vastly increases the (maximum) brightness or at least the range. I haven't tested it in many games, but I fear that in darker games it might actually make them too bright?

I'm currently playing Death Stranding with it set to Detail Priority. Maybe it's a setting that should be turned on or off depending on the game?
Click to expand...

I prefer DTM. Fuck creator's intent. Also, what model is your new TV?
 
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Whats the exact model?

On several of the older LG's - i willl say DTM 80% of the time because HGiG is lower brightness whilst DTM gives a brighter picture which is much more appealing than the 'creator's intent'.

On newer models, i think HGiG is the go (unless there is a brightness difference, which i tihnk there isnt?)
 
b0uncyfr0 said:
Whats the exact model?

On several of the older LG's - i willl say DTM 80% of the time because HGiG is lower brightness whilst DTM gives a brighter picture which is much more appealing than the 'creator's intent'.

On newer models, i think HGiG is the go (unless there is a brightness difference, which i tihnk there isnt?)
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My new TV is a TCL QM7 (QM751G) with Beta firmware# 26.
 
LG tv? which one?
I've been using HGIG for about a year at first but switched to DTM and never looked back.
That high shit is shit and almost no game allows for fine enough adjustments to get it right.
AND like 0 or 1 game support hgig system level calibration on ps5 and pc...

DTM on the other hand, takes whatever it can get and tonemaps it to capabilities of your TV.

My suggestion is:
WHEN USING DTM ON, set games and system level calibration all with DTM ON.
On my c1 (and I suppose on your new TV too), that's exactly 4000 nits. Sure, tv can do 800 but DTM IS PROGRAMMED TO EXCPECT 4000 and tonemap it to 800-1000.
So yes, set ps5/win11 hdr with dtm on, until those patter disappears and if game allows for numerical value, put in 4000.
I've tested it time and time over - when I put in 800 and use DTM, some highlights can be crushes/clipped while that's not a thing with 4000. At least in resident evil games.
And I only got a c1... later models improved DTM sampling and responsiveness even more
 
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I am always struggling with this. I feel as if HGIG is too dim a lot of the time. But DTM does introduce issues as well with raised dark areas a lot of the time.

I do not believe in the "creators intent" argument. Just like I prefer Cinema Home to Filmmaker mode.

But once in a while I find games that do look good in HGIG.

HDR is a pain settings wise. Love stuff like the RenoDX mods on PC though, but I wish it was all standardized plug and play.
 
HGIG but if the picture is too dull, go DTM. Don't be afraid to fuck around with TV brightness/contrast and fine tune dark areas to make the picture pop either. It is YOUR experience so go with how YOU want it to look.
 
I went down the HDR rabbit hole years ago and accepted that unless you game exclusively in a dark or low light room, you should just go with what you think looks good.

In addition, the implementation of HDR varies wildly from game to game so there is never a "one size fits all" solution, which in my opinion drifts away from the intent of a console, I don't want to continually switch HDR modes on my console and TV between games, its annoying.

Whatever you read online about "the ideal settings" just understand that everyone's home setup is going to be different and subjective opinion probably won't match your reality.

HGIG is supposedly the "creators intent" but it was probably mastered in some perfectly setup professional studio with reference monitors and shit that no home user will ever have.

Generally speaking, most of us like bright, vibrant pictures which modern TVs excel at. I'm playing GT7 and FH5 right now and DTM just looks better, IDGAF what the "best" option is.

So my honest advice here is start taking the "personal preference" pill now or forever be coping over why your picture looks like shit, despite being aligned with the "creators intent".
 
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R6Rider said:
Currently testing out Dead Space and it seems HGIG is better here (although in many areas it's not much difference).
Click to expand...
The game itself has to support HGIG, but even then there's games that do support it where I end up going back and forth and making up my mind what I like more.
 
Inviusx said:
I went down the HDR rabbit hole years ago and accepted that unless you game exclusively in a dark or low light room, you should just go with what you think looks good.

In addition, the implementation of HDR varies wildly from game to game so there is never a "one size fits all" solution, which in my opinion drifts away from the intent of a console, I don't want to continually switch HDR modes on my console and TV between games, its annoying.

Whatever you read online about "the ideal settings" just understand that everyone's home setup is going to be different and subjective opinion probably won't match your reality.

HGIG is supposedly the "creators intent" but it was probably mastered in some perfectly setup professional studio with reference monitors and shit that no home user will ever have.

Generally speaking, most of us like bright, vibrant pictures which modern TVs excel at. I'm playing GT7 and FH5 right now and DTM just looks better, IDGAF what the "best" option is.

So my honest advice here is start taking the "personal preference" pill now or forever be coping over why your picture looks like shit, despite being aligned with the "creators intent".
Click to expand...
Pretty much. I have a Samsung OLED and I keep it on "Advanced" which is supposedly less precise, but I like the HDR to "pop". Considering how many issues there are with various HDR implementations, it ends up being unclear what is trully "creator's intent". In summary, just run whatever you like the most.
 
rofif said:
LG tv? which one?
I've been using HGIG for about a year at first but switched to DTM and never looked back.
That high shit is shit and almost no game allows for fine enough adjustments to get it right.
AND like 0 or 1 game support hgig system level calibration on ps5 and pc...

DTM on the other hand, takes whatever it can get and tonemaps it to capabilities of your TV.

My suggestion is:
WHEN USING DTM ON, set games and system level calibration all with DTM ON.
On my c1 (and I suppose on your new TV too), that's exactly 4000 nits. Sure, tv can do 800 but DTM IS PROGRAMMED TO EXCPECT 4000 and tonemap it to 800-1000.
So yes, set ps5/win11 hdr with dtm on, until those patter disappears and if game allows for numerical value, put in 4000.
I've tested it time and time over - when I put in 800 and use DTM, some highlights can be crushes/clipped while that's not a thing with 4000. At least in resident evil games.
And I only got a c1... later models improved DTM sampling and responsiveness even more
Click to expand...
Hey, how did you or where did you find out what your TV tone maps up to?

I have a Samsung QLED which only has one option for "Game HDR" but cant find anything searching around.

The tone mapping is different to peak brightness Im guessing?

Ive tried and read all the guides (Samsung gets slagged off a lot for "tone mapping" and shit but I love mine) but HDR is still just confusing.

EDIT - one last question - you turn HGIG off and DTM on when doing the PS5 HDR calibration as well? Do you follow the screen instructions to set it barely visible or all the way gone?
 
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TheStam said:
I am always struggling with this. I feel as if HGIG is too dim a lot of the time. But DTM does introduce issues as well with raised dark areas a lot of the time.

I do not believe in the "creators intent" argument. Just like I prefer Cinema Home to Filmmaker mode.

But once in a while I find games that do look good in HGIG.

HDR is a pain settings wise. Love stuff like the RenoDX mods on PC though, but I wish it was all standardized plug and play.
Click to expand...

The issue is find with Filmmaker mode is panning shots, they tend to judder a lot due to the high refresh of the TV. Meaning you need to turn on options to smooth them... which then results in you needing to turn back on other options due to the issues that this introduces. I would say Cinema seems to be the sweet spot for me out the box for LG, still a little bit of judder on wide sweeps, but no where close to film maker.
 
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STARSBarry said:
The issue is find with Filmmaker mode is panning shots, they tend to judder a lot due to the high refresh of the TV. Meaning you need to turn on options to smooth them... which then results in you needing to turn back on other options due to the issues that this introduces. I would say Cinema seems to be the sweet spot for me out the box for LG, still a little bit of judder on wide sweeps, but no where close to film maker.
Click to expand...

Agreed and I also really dislike the lack of brightness. Even with a 1000+ max brightness screen at night watching some content is just mastered way too dark for my taste. Like the show Silo as one of many examples. Cinema Home helps a bit at least.
 
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TheStam said:
Agreed and I also really dislike the lack of brightness. Even with a 1000+ max brightness screen at night watching some content is just mastered way too dark for my taste. Like the show Silo as one of many examples. Cinema Home helps a bit at least.
Click to expand...

I got the new G5 so my brightness is about 40% more of other OLED's but I might give this a shot to see what its like. My prior set had real issues with the "fake night" that modern shows seems to love, where child actors cant work past like 8PM so any night shots are filmed during the day and the studio puts a terrible filter over it, I remember the Disney Willow series being unwatchable at times (not just because of th content), especially those later episodes due to this.
 
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Shockwave_Fox said:
Hey, how did you or where did you find out what your TV tone maps up to?

I have a Samsung QLED which only has one option for "Game HDR" but cant find anything searching around.

The tone mapping is different to peak brightness Im guessing?

Ive tried and read all the guides (Samsung gets slagged off a lot for "tone mapping" and shit but I love mine) but HDR is still just confusing.

EDIT - one last question - you turn HGIG off and DTM on when doing the PS5 HDR calibration as well? Do you follow the screen instructions to set it barely visible or all the way gone?
Click to expand...
It was noted in some review. And I think 4000 nits is a standard.

And yea. I never use hgig. DTM on and calibration with it too
 
It's personal preference, there isn't a "correct" answer, however HGIG will provide the most accurate image. HDR isn't all about brightness, its about the range of the entire image and colour. HGIG if supported and set up correctly will provide much more vibrant highlights along with better contrasted deeper blacks compared to DTM, however it depends on the game. Games with shite HDR implementation will benefit from DTM over HGIG and vice versa. If you are on PC, RenoDX mods or Special K with HGIG configured to your display's compatability will provide much better results than just leaving DTM on all the time.

Again, it's personal preference. But if a game properly supports HGIG and/or you can use RenoDX/Special K on PC, you should switch between them to see for yourself, specifically on highlights and dark areas. I use HGIG all the time.
 
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keefged4 said:
It's personal preference, there isn't a "correct" answer, however HGIG will provide the most accurate image. HDR isn't all about brightness, its about the range of the entire image and colour. HGIG if supported and set up correctly will provide much more vibrant highlights along with better contrasted deeper blacks compared to DTM, however it depends on the game. Games with shite HDR implementation will benefit from DTM over HGIG and vice versa. If you are on PC, RenoDX mods or Special K with HGIG configured to your display's compatability will provide much better results than just leaving DTM on all the time.

Again, it's personal preference. But if a game properly supports HGIG and/or you can use RenoDX/Special K on PC, you should switch between them to see for yourself, specifically on highlights and dark areas. I use HGIG all the time.
Click to expand...
I have been using DTM this whole time but I just tried HGIG while in GT7 and it looked better to me in that game. I always thought it was too dim but with HGIG in GT7 the bright spots really pop whereas DTM is so bright the brighter spots aren't as pronounced.
 
keefged4 said:
It's personal preference, there isn't a "correct" answer, however HGIG will provide the most accurate image. HDR isn't all about brightness, its about the range of the entire image and colour. HGIG if supported and set up correctly will provide much more vibrant highlights along with better contrasted deeper blacks compared to DTM, however it depends on the game. Games with shite HDR implementation will benefit from DTM over HGIG and vice versa. If you are on PC, RenoDX mods or Special K with HGIG configured to your display's compatability will provide much better results than just leaving DTM on all the time.

Again, it's personal preference. But if a game properly supports HGIG and/or you can use RenoDX/Special K on PC, you should switch between them to see for yourself, specifically on highlights and dark areas. I use HGIG all the time.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this. I have been raging at HGIG a lot due to the darker picture and still use DTM quite often. But like now I am replaying Cyberpunk with RenoDX (set at my monitors max brightness) and I must say it looks better in HGIG. The overall screen is still brighter in DTM, but the lack of contrast makes the overall image less interesting as a result as dark areas are brighter than they should be.

Another example of where HGIG is great is Horizon Zero Dawn remake which has an awesome HDR calibration tool. There are very few games I can say that about. But a lot of the time I am happy to have DTM there as a backup solution.

RenoDX is amazing and I will use it for every game I can.
 
The newer tv's MLA, 4 stack Tandem Oled and Qdoled are bright enough to stick with hgig and enjoy a more accurate picture and I would say mini led should be fine as well. On my LG C1 oled DTM is my preferred setting because the tv isn't bright enough but on my Samsung S95D qdoled HGIG is perfect and it's super bright when the game calls for it. At the end of the day, play on whatever setting that looks best to you.
 
HGIG: If you can change HDR brightness, settings etc. in a game
DTM: If there is no option to adjust HDR in a game (fixed brightness)

This site may help you with settings for games. Although it hasn't been updated with any new games for a while:
www.hdrgamer.com

HDRGAMER.COM

All About Gaming HDR: Analysis, Guides, and Best Practices for HDR Settings
www.hdrgamer.com www.hdrgamer.com
 
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Lord, I don't understand any of this.
I've been eyeballing oleds forever, even made a thread about it when I thought I was gonna bite but the local Best Buy was jerking me around on an open box item so I passed.
Are 2024 Samsung S90 and LG C4 still considered good gaming screens? The set would be used almost exclusively for console gaming so that is really my only concern. I wanna hit up these Memorial Day sales.
 
ClanOfNone said:
Lord, I don't understand any of this.
I've been eyeballing oleds forever, even made a thread about it when I thought I was gonna bite but the local Best Buy was jerking me around on an open box item so I passed.
Are 2024 Samsung S90 and LG C4 still considered good gaming screens? The set would be used almost exclusively for console gaming so that is really my only concern. I wanna hit up these Memorial Day sales.
Click to expand...
Samsung S90 series and C4 are really good OLEDs.

I currently have an S90C, while QD-OLED is nice and bright. The OS is dogshit. Rather go for the C4(I myself will be getting a new LG OLED this year. I miss my CX), not as bright as QD-OLED but still really good, and no dogshit Tizen.
 
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Signalis said:
Samsung S90 series and C4 are really good OLEDs.

I currently have an S90C, while QD-OLED is nice and bright. The OS is dogshit. Rather go for the C4(I myself will be getting a new LG OLED this year. I miss my CX), not as bright as QD-OLED but still really good, and no dogshit Tizen.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning towards the LG. My current set is a Samsung QLED, and at 7 years old it's got some severe issues with brightness and color.
First time I've had an issue with a Sammy, while my very first flatscreen (a 42 inch LG) still looks great after like 20 years.
I wish they made these sets in 70-75 inch range. Everything is 65 or 77 plus. Current is 65 and I wanted to go a bit bigger with my shitty vision. But the jump in price from 65 to 77 is substantial, $1300 vs $2000.
 
ClanOfNone said:
I'm leaning towards the LG. My current set is a Samsung QLED, and at 7 years old it's got some severe issues with brightness and color.
First time I've had an issue with a Sammy, while my very first flatscreen (a 42 inch LG) still looks great after like 20 years.
I wish they made these sets in 70-75 inch range. Everything is 65 or 77 plus. Current is 65 and I wanted to go a bit bigger with my shitty vision. But the jump in price from 65 to 77 is substantial, $1300 vs $2000.
Click to expand...
Go with an LG rather. It will save you a lot of frustration, and while QD-OLED is brighter, LG's WOLEDs are no slouches either. I recommend the LG C4. As I said, I'm getting a new LG OLED some time this year as well. I miss having an LG OLED. The S90C, while a nice TV, it's OS is shit and it has a lot of bugs. For instance, Samsung doesn't do HGiG properly either, there will always be some tone mapping, no Dolby vision etc.

Go for the LG, get Stellar Blade and imagine Eve is sitting on your face. It will be well worth it(both the LG OLED and Eve sitting on your face).
 
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ClanOfNone said:
Lord, I don't understand any of this.
I've been eyeballing oleds forever, even made a thread about it when I thought I was gonna bite but the local Best Buy was jerking me around on an open box item so I passed.
Are 2024 Samsung S90 and LG C4 still considered good gaming screens? The set would be used almost exclusively for console gaming so that is really my only concern. I wanna hit up these Memorial Day sales.
Click to expand...
I got a S90D a few weeks ago and it's amazing.
 
diffusionx said:
These acronyms sound made up
Click to expand...
accronyms1.jpg
 
The main advantage of OLEDs is prefect blacks. Dark scenes with DTM become overbright/grey.
So if a game has proper HDR support i always choose HGIG.
However if for some reason a game has poor/dark HDR, i do set DTM on.
 
Enthusiasts will tell you to use HGIG.

DTM can over brighten some games. But I prefer it in most games.

I'd try both and see which you like better. Not every game uses tone mapping the same, so you might get games that look better with HGIG and others that look better with DTM.
 
So many "experts" will tell you to turn HGIG on.

In my experience with many different OLED displays, it always looks worse. Washed out or dim.

Maybe there's a future with 10,000nit displays where HGIG would make sense, but as it stands? Turn on DTM and enjoy a more vibrant pleasing image.
 
I don't care experts and I don't care the "correct color" settings. I use Dynamic Tone Mapping, I saturate the picture, I don't use full brightness. I use Black Stabilizer etc. etc.

Do not listen people when it comes to the settings on OLED. Just use what settings look good on your eye. To hell with their "correct settings".
 
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I'm going to be choosing one over the other on a game by game basis.

I played Sea of Thieves last night (with HGIG) and this game looks fucking beautiful with the sun reflecting off the water and the highlights.
 
b0uncyfr0 said:
Whats the exact model?

On several of the older LG's - i willl say DTM 80% of the time because HGiG is lower brightness whilst DTM gives a brighter picture which is much more appealing than the 'creator's intent'.

On newer models, i think HGiG is the go (unless there is a brightness difference, which i tihnk there isnt?)
Click to expand...
See? I prefer HGIG. OLED screens really are meant for darker rooms anyway, and the colors pop with deep blacks.
 
I recently bought an S90D (QD-OLED) and so far I'm going with HGIG for all games. At first it all appeared too dim and colours were not popping anymore. But it seems to be normal. We're too used to over-saturated and over-exposed images, so when we go down to a more neutral and accurate image profile it can be kind of a shock. It only took me a few hours to get used to this. So far I've tested GT7, FF7:Rebirth and HFW on it and they all look amazing with the settings going for the most accurate image. Now colours only pop when they need to pop and the rest of the time they look natural. It's the same with scene brightness and highlights. We just need to let ourselves adjust and then it will look great. Then if you go back to non-accurate settings, all the over-saturation and over-exposed colours will be pretty obvious and even jarring. It is required to reduce the light coming through in the TV room as much as possible during the day, though. If you can't do that, then perhaps HGIG and image accuracy is not feasible for you. Most games also let you increase their brightness settings to help compensate.
 
Edellus said:
I recently bought an S90D (QD-OLED) and so far I'm going with HGIG for all games. At first it all appeared too dim and colours were not popping anymore. But it seems to be normal. We're too used to over-saturated and over-exposed images, so when we go down to a more neutral and accurate image profile it can be kind of a shock. It only took me a few hours to get used to this. So far I've tested GT7, FF7:Rebirth and HFW on it and they all look amazing with the settings going for the most accurate image. Now colours only pop when they need to pop and the rest of the time they look natural. It's the same with scene brightness and highlights. We just need to let ourselves adjust and then it will look great. Then if you go back to non-accurate settings, all the over-saturation and over-exposed colours will be pretty obvious and even jarring. It is required to reduce the light coming through in the TV room as much as possible during the day, though. If you can't do that, then perhaps HGIG and image accuracy is not feasible for you. Most games also let you increase their brightness settings to help compensate.
Click to expand...
This 100%. I think that a lot of people see TV's in stores with the clown-vomit vivid demo modes and then get home and just crank everything up, so that when they come to properly calibrating things it automatically looks "bad" to them because they are used to vastly oversatured colours and overbrightended images.
 
rofif said:
It was noted in some review. And I think 4000 nits is a standard.

And yea. I never use hgig. DTM on and calibration with it too
Click to expand...
I tried calibrating my PS5 and Series X HDR without HGIG on and all the symbols disappeared at 10,000 nits lol

Might try your 4000 and see how it looks, havent had a chance to try any games properly on it yet.
 
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