speckz
Member
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New World is apparently blocking players in Russia and Belarus
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
What's backfiring spectacularly is Russia's invasion of Ukraine. When you invade a nation 28 times smaller than yours and they kick your arse, I'd say that's the very definition of a "spectacular backfire."
That being said, before we get the usual "but why punish poor oppressed gamers for what their government is doing! Poor victims!" argument pops up, let's remember that Ukrainian players (or anyone else really) should not be exposed to nationalist and war-supporting bullshit from Russian ones, which is certainly not a remote possibility.
But why would the Russian players do this?
Why indeed: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-z-symbol-on-podium-next-to-ukrainian-winner
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Captain Toad
Banned
I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time feeling bad for the Russian population as a whole right now. No, they don't all support the war, but enough do, at least publicly. And until there is enough outcry there to do something about the horrible war crimes being committed as we speak by their government, no one should expect "business as usual" with the nation.
SteelCurtain 59
Member
I definitely feel sorry for the ones that don't support the war, but I don't believe the likelihood of the Russian populace being able to overthrow the government is very high, nor could any outcry realistically stop this invasion imo, it would probably take somebody in the inner circle conspiring against Putin for anything to happen. It's more just that this is the only strategy the West can do that doesn't totally fuck over the world. Basically the 3 options are 1. Do nothing but make anti-Russia statements, 2. Defend Ukraine with troops (basically starting WW3), or 3. Sanction the hell out of Russia. The first two options are basically nonstarters. And while the 3rd options screws over Russian citizens, it's significantly better for them than if we started fighting Russia
SirKicksalot
Member
So in restricting Russian access to Western commodities to provoke an uprising, what timeline are we looking at here?
13 years like in Hungary?
35 like in Poland?
45 like in Romania?
Backfiring so spectacularly they're bombing Western Ukraine now lmao
13 years like in Hungary?
35 like in Poland?
45 like in Romania?
Backfiring so spectacularly they're bombing Western Ukraine now lmao
Bridges
Member
Those of us here who are Americans, do we deserve punishment like this for our government's meddling in foreign entities?
I'm not big on the "privilege" rhetoric that is so popular these days, but this double standard seems to be a pretty good indicator of American privilege, if nothing else. Imagine having all the services you paid for stripped away because of something you had no say in, determined by where you were born.
Just saying, I can see the arguments in favor of this, it is definitely not a simple black and white issue, but would those in favor feel the same if it were happening to them?
I'm not big on the "privilege" rhetoric that is so popular these days, but this double standard seems to be a pretty good indicator of American privilege, if nothing else. Imagine having all the services you paid for stripped away because of something you had no say in, determined by where you were born.
Just saying, I can see the arguments in favor of this, it is definitely not a simple black and white issue, but would those in favor feel the same if it were happening to them?
ViolentP
Member
naivete
/ˌnäˌēv(ə)ˈtā,näˈēv(ə)ˌtā/
Learn to pronounce
noun
- the quality of being naive; lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.
"his greatest fault was his political naïveté"- innocence or unsophistication.
"some of the material is laughable in its naïveté"
- innocence or unsophistication.
treemk
Banned
Considering "we" have been doing this nearly non-stop since the end of WWII, based on this logic we deserve much worse.
DarkestHour
Banned
Uh, yeah? If we invaded a country with the sole purpose to take it over we definitely do.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Where were the boycotts when the United States and European Union supported the overthrowing of a democratically elected government in Ukraine in February 2014?
Is the game still available in China? A country committing genocide as we speak?
Is the game still available in China? A country committing genocide as we speak?
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
I wish Germany had seen this kind of backlash before 1939 happened.
treemk
Banned
"Despite recently closing hundreds of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant "Little Americas" to small radar facilities. Britain, France and Russia, by contrast, have about 30 foreign bases combined."
They didn't say they were taking over though, so it's ok.
treemk
Banned
The US started this war, but we're dealing with people who think as herds.
Konnor
Member
treemk
Banned
It's more than some
Silent Viper
Banned
10k people were arrested for protesting. Heavy Crackdown happening anyone protesting against War. General public can't do much if Government doing brutal crackdowns.
All this attack towards Russia for their invasion but nothing against America for invading Iraq and multiple other countries. Hypocrisy at its best..
General public of Russia and Ukraine both suffering in different ways and i feel bad for public of both countries, they have to suffer coz leaders of these countries dont care if people die or live.
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nowhat
Member
The democratically elected government supported getting more cozy with the EU. The Russian puppet functioning as the president said "fuck it, we will do no such thing, let's get comfy with mother Russia". The rest, as they say, is history.
lukilladog
Member
More "guilt by association" type of thinking.
Daytonabot
Banned
It wouldn't be good virtue signalling if the bottom line was actually risked.
Lethal01
Member
SO you agree you should face punishment? Cool
treemk
Banned
Ironically when Russia wins Ukrainians become Russian citizens and then are cut off with all these bans
I'm not American, but your equivocation is fundamentally idiotic.
Corrupt, Zwaztika wearing fascists invade a neighbouring country to "Russify" and absorb it while commiting multiple war crimes and you're trying to turn it into a whataboutism?
It certainly puts into perspective all of the Nazi sympathizers and collaborators in the Second World War spewing regime propaganda to justify repeated Nazi invasions and ultimately genocide.
Nazi propaganda and the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
Russian citizens still living in Russia face the consequences of the actions of the corrupt regime. Blame Putin. Whether or not they change their government is not relevant.
If the sanctions render Russians as poor as the North Koreans, Iranians, Syrians, or Cubans, everyone else will understand it no longer has a military capable of doing anything more than oppressing its own people.
Putin is a Russian problem that's been exported. Russia should suffer the more than anyone else for their monster.
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Stupid. Why should you block access to a game because your leaders are morons. I can understand something like buying oil or gas because it directly helps fund the war. But a video game. This is just everyone jumping on the PC bandwagon.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
It's interesting and not just a little appalling to see someone put "lmao" in the same sentence as "bombing."
But let me put things in perspective for someone like you who obviously knows nothing of military operations beyond call of duty. Putting some missiles and bombs in western Ukraine is easy. They could put bombs much beyond that. There's 500 km between Kyiv and Lviv. In terms of aerial attacks, that's spitting distance. It doesn't in any shape or form show any form of success of the russian offensive. As a matter of fact, it shows that they're so stalled that bombing indiscriminately is pretty much the only thing they can do. They have failed to beat the Ukrainian army so they're trying to terrorize the population. Not only that. They're having to resort to more and more unguided weapons because they're running out of high-tech ammunition.
On the ground, their "mighty" army has been stalled, their generals are picked out like turkeys on the frontlines because they don't have enough mid-level officers to conduct operations and have to go direct traffic themselves. They have failed to win air superiority. Their logistics are an absolute disaster, and it's today's news that Ukrainian forces are starting to push back in some areas. We're almost a month into a war that a competent army should have won in a week and that they aren't any close to winning.
So yes. the Ukrainians, despite limited resources, have absolutely imposed the style of warfare that is more advantageous to them and are kicking russia in the arse. Hard.
On top of that, putin counted on divided NATO and Europe to split even further and let him do whatever he wanted. He only managed to unite both like they never have been even during the Cold War, with even a pacifist country like Germany buying F-35's and the EU signing for the first time in its history for the establishment of a rapid response multinational force under its direct control, something that had been swamped into the ifs and buts since the dawn of the union.
If you don't think this is the very definition of "backfiring spectacularly" you may want to pick up a dictionary.
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I'm sorry but fuck em, for the ones who are anti war and anti Putin, I feel ya but you know what suck it up, your bros over the border don't even have a functioning country cause your government is bombing it like it ww2, so get used to going back to the USSR or you know get off your asses and do something about it
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
If ya'll want to play games with these bros, good (or bad) for you. Feel free to move to Russia so that you can play Tetris together on your gameboys. I'm glad I don't have to.
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
You can throw around all the sophistries and whataboutism you want, but Operation Desert Storm released a sovereign nation that had been invaded with zero provocation. Russia has done nothing of the sort. Sorry not sorry that your little disingenuous attempt to find an excuse for putin didn't work.
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dotnotbot
Member
"Democratically elected" lmao
Ukraine election 'reversed democracy', OSCE says
International observers say Ukraine's election was a backward step for democracy, marred by "the abuse of power and the excessive role of money".
www.bbc.com
Hundreds protest alleged Ukraine election fraud
www.independent.co.uk
Same shit with Belarus, elections under Russia's puppets are a joke.
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Bridges
Member
Friend, I welcome other viewpoints, we can all ask questions and have a discussion without calling each other idiotic and getting heated. That being said, I respect your opinion.I'm not American, but your equivocation is fundamentally idiotic.
Corrupt, Zwaztika wearing fascists invade a neighbouring country to "Russify" and absorb it while commiting multiple war crimes and you're trying to turn it into a whataboutism?
It certainly puts into perspective all of the Nazi sympathizers and collaborators in the Second World War spewing regime propaganda to justify repeated Nazi invasions and ultimately genocide.
Nazi propaganda and the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Russian citizens still living in Russia face the consequences of the actions of the corrupt regime. Blame Putin. Whether or not they change their government is not relevant.
If the sanctions render Russians as poor as the North Koreans, Iranians, Syrians, or Cubans, everyone else will understand it no longer has a military capable of doing anything more than oppressing its own people.
Putin is a Russian problem that's been exported. Russia should suffer the more than anyone else for their monster.
I have family in Ukraine, so I understand this is a big deal, and there are a lot of factors at play, and everyone has different ideas of right and wrong on stuff like this.
I personally dislike having my question labeled as "whataboutism" though. I'm not attempting to handwave the clearly wrong actions of Putin and the Russian government, I am simply asking for some perspective. We are a very vindictive society, and I just don't believe in setting rules for others that I don't plan to abide by myself. You can call that whatever you want to, but America does not have clean hands. I love my country, but it would be a lie to pretend that our government has not meddled in ways big and small throughout my whole lifetime. We drone strike innocent people all the time, in increasing amounts, maybe we can just call that lucky that the rest of the world doesn't care enough or can't afford to impose restrictions on us for our behavior the same way we try to police everyone else.
The core question here, is what good does it actually do the world to tell people in Russia "Okay, no more video games". Is this actually pushing towards positive change, or just a virtue signal that will do little more than piss off an already pissed of country full of people who have no say in who runs their country?
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Whataboutism aside, the question has already been answered many times.
1: it's clearly communicating to the people of Russia that no, not everything is going "according to plan" and that their leader has turned their nation into a pariah on the international scene. When products and services you're used to are taken away from you, it's a much stronger and personal message than a video that your leaders will just tell you is a fabrication.
2: When you offer a product or service in Russia, you pay taxes to the Russian government. Companies obviously don't want to see their money go to fuel putin's war of aggression and war crimes.
3: Rather importantly, it prevents the many who are in support of Russia's invasion and war crimes from coming into contact with other gamers and disrupt their enjoyment of the game. To give you a basic example, to an Ukrainian playing Forza, seeing a car with a big Z on it would be very understandably upsetting. While there are young people in Russia protesting against the war (and lots of them are likely in jail now) there are also plenty of nationalists that can't wait to shout their pro-war and pro "special military operation" messaging in the games they're allowed to take part into. And I've already seen it happen in a few cases. Keeping those out of games where they can poison the well is definitely a worthwhile action.
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treemk
Banned
Russia is liberating the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic. Same as believing Desert Storm was about Kuwait.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
I understand that you're not knowledgeable about international law (or simple common sense), but I have to let you know that there's a pretty damn massive difference between a sovereign nation and separatist rebels.
Perhaps if someone belonging to a different ethnicity woke up a morning and decided that the place where you live isn't part of your nation anymore and that they should rebel, and another nation decided unilaterally to invade your nation to "liberate" them and bombed your house into rubble, you'd understand the difference.
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GodLordPaddock
Banned
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
The above poster must have thought: "Oh, he's got a checkmark. He must be right! Let's paste his tweets here in replacement of arguments I am not able to make."
Relevant detail that this cretin has omitted is that one of these "major parties" is bombing these "civilians stuck in the crossfire," while the others are protecting and/or helping them.
PS: took a look at his timeline just for funsies, and was not disappointed. It's comedic to see this kind of nincompoop express such completely idiotic ideas in public.
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dotnotbot
Member
What? Read the post I was answering to once again. I don't know what Zelensky has to do with it.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
My bad, you're actually correct. This thread has brought up so many completely irrational and antihistorical positions that fly in the face of every tenet of international law that I got carried away.
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Bridges
Member
This is a very good point, but New World isn't subscription based, so everyone they're blocking already paid for the game, those taxes are already collected. You could make the argument that this cuts them off from buying micro transactions, which is valid, but there is no guarantee any of those players would actually spend any more money, why not just region lock the store and suspend further sales if it's about the money? Seems a tad flimsy to me but I understand what you're getting at.
You are probably a smart person, you should try to be more careful about how condescending you let yourself come across in some of your responses here. Telling people they lack common sense, they know nothing, accusing them of being disingenuous... These things really undermine when you actually bring up valid points, because it is not a flattering look. Just something to maybe consider. We're all just having a discussion here.
GodLordPaddock
Banned
You realize that crossfire used in this context isn't about shelling or gunfire right?
Yikkkkkkkkkkessssssss
GodLordPaddock
Banned
Dude is an armchair MSM drone while some of us have family who lived in the Ukraine and are either fighting for their lives or had to relocate.
I come from the highest Ukranian rooted county in the United States. We are all hurting from this shit, doesn't mean innocent people need to suffer on the other side of the aisle.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
You don't realize that there's no valid "context" for what that nincompoop says. Incidentally, "yikes" may work on the purple forum, but here it isn't a valid replacement for an actual argument, that you obviously don't have.
I'm not really that sorry (at all). There is only so much patience to be had with those playing ball for putin. And that has run out a couple of weeks ago. At this point, all they deserve is unrestrained mockery. If one wants people to be nice to them, perhaps they should avoid publicly supporting a murderous war criminal, directly or indirectly.
It prevents them from buying microtransactions, and it prevents further purchases, all of which means money going into Russia's war chest via taxes. Is it a lot of money? Is it a little money? It doesn't matter. It's still money that Russia doesn't get, which is always good, and with all the companies dropping Russia all over the economic and commercial spectrum, it definitely adds up. This without of course counting the other two points, which are entirely valid as well.
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zaanan
Banned
They saw far worse. They were banned from even having a military, and forced to pay reparations to the Allies. This made them bitter and made it easy for the Nazis to rise to power.
Dream-Knife
Banned
"Democratically elected" lmao
Ukraine election 'reversed democracy', OSCE says
International observers say Ukraine's election was a backward step for democracy, marred by "the abuse of power and the excessive role of money".
Hundreds protest alleged Ukraine election fraud
Same shit with Belarus, elections under Russia's puppets are a joke.
Is Zelensky’s party crackdown his first mistake?
The news that Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky has banned eleven opposition parties – including the pro-Russian ‘Opposition – Platform For Life’ which holds 44 seats in the 450-member Ukrainian parliament and has spoken out against the Russian invasion – may be the embattled leader’s first...
www.spectator.co.uk
I'm bowing out of this to not turn this into politics. PM me if you want.
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
What a terribly out-of-place comparison. You're skipping pretty much 20 years of history. Germany had already lost a war, badly, and the German people were already impoverished beyond recovery and had nothing to lose by supporting the Nazis. On top of this, the allied nations literally did the exact opposite of what the world is doing now. The US was in an isolationist phase so they simply didn't care all that much about what Hitler was doing, while most European countries, UK front and center, were trying to appease Hitler as much as possible in the silly hope that he'd be reasonable once he got a few concessions.
Now the Russian people definitely have something to lose by continuing to support Putin, and it's the relatively decent quality of life they have achieved, which Putin is taking from under their feet like a rug with the silly promise that "we'll though it out people, haha." While the behavior of western countries, US and UK in front is absolutely nothing like the behavior that brought to WWII.
The comedic part of your comparison is that what allowed the situation to escalate all the way to WWII (US doing its own thing and ignoring what doesn't directly affects it, and Europe appeasing the dictator in the hope that he's happy with just grabbing some land here and there) is exactly what the putin apologists think would be the ideal solution.
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GodLordPaddock
Banned
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Lol at thinking I need to prove or argue with some random nobody on a forum.
You certainly don't need to. But you shouldn't be surprised if replacing that with a tweet from a random nincompoop on social media leads to you being mocked.
GodLordPaddock
Banned
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Oh, what a compelling (not) argument. Got any more memes since formulating an actual logical response is beyond you?
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