Gruntilda's Lair is the best hub world and it really isn't close
- Thread starter Tg89
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Werewolf Jones
Member
Camera in that game is garbage.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Firelink shrine
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah OP could have given some more arguments beyond a gif and a youtube link lmao.
Anyway, I agree that it's a great place to explore, not just for how varied and charming it is but it also holds many secrets to find and stuff to pay attention to before the final quiz at the end of the game.
NeverYouMind
Member
If this is in general and not purely bound to N64, I think Psychonauts 2 is phenomenal in this regard. The transition between hub world and platforming/challenge levels is almost seamless.
I hated it in DS3 as it was an unnecessarily spaced out version of the nexus in Demon Souls. I did not like it in Dark Souls either as the tower with Andre was a more practical base camp.
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Saber
Newd Member
OP do your homework better next time.
And this is from someone who kinda agrees.
The area works as a bunch of interconnected, yet straightfoward, places where you can explore, fight and find secrets.
It differs greatly from Super Mario 64, where are mostly composed of doors. Banjo Kazooie work with small areas as part of Grutilda Lair, with certain parts distinguish from each other. The cue to know you're in a area that indeed has the next zone is determined by both the sudden art change and music change. All the zones works that way, when you reach the first zone you will notice Grutilda Lair theme suddenly changing in instruments to reflect the first area.
And this is from someone who kinda agrees.
The area works as a bunch of interconnected, yet straightfoward, places where you can explore, fight and find secrets.
It differs greatly from Super Mario 64, where are mostly composed of doors. Banjo Kazooie work with small areas as part of Grutilda Lair, with certain parts distinguish from each other. The cue to know you're in a area that indeed has the next zone is determined by both the sudden art change and music change. All the zones works that way, when you reach the first zone you will notice Grutilda Lair theme suddenly changing in instruments to reflect the first area.
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PauloRoberto
Member
I keep imagining how better Banjo Kazooie would be with proper camera controls... (it IS cool as heck this game, but those camera controls...)
LordOfChaos
Member
7 year old me like my groin is feeling a certain way
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
cool, but i have my own cool Hub
progression and connection to other place is inspiring here
also the music is very soothing
So you're saying fromsoft copied banjo for their world design?
Rare is on another level.
DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
I actually like Tooie's hub world a lot more. I'm indifferent on a lot of the theming decisions for half of the levels in Tooie. They may be generic but I think level for level, Kazooie's theming for its levels is easily better than Tooie's level theming. But Tooie's hub world? I like it so much more than Kazooie's.
Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
No, I'm sorry sir but thats only the 3rd best hub world on the N64.The honor belongs to Diddy Kong Racing, followed by Mario 64, and then Banjo 1. If you are talking best of all time it wouldn't even be in my top 10 as its way too stretched out, and is more like a stage level that you slowly explore rather than an actual hub.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
There are way better ones but for the N64, Clock Town in Majora's Mask is the best.
I'd say that's stretching the definition of a hub world but otherwise I'd agree, Clock Town is peak.
Damn, ngl I kinda forgot about DKR. It's up there for sure. And the best Kart racer of all time.
Deerock71
Very Poor Hoice of Wor
FTFY
Rran
Member
It's a good one but it kind of depends on what you're looking for in a hub. Mario 64's (and Sunshine's) is a lot more fun to just treat as a playground, jumping around in. BK's is more like a semi-linear puzzle you slowly unravel. It's dingy and kind of restrictive so there's not as much freely engaging with the game's mechanics than in something like Spiral Mountain. So if you want your hub world to be kind of like its own level with secrets and stuff, it's a good one, but not if you'd prefer them to be a way to unwind and mess around.
Good music though, I like all the variations.
Good music though, I like all the variations.
ecosse_011172
Gold Member
Pity it was a borefest.
Lunnarre
Member
cool, but i have my own cool Hub
progression and connection to other place is inspiring here
also the music is very soothing
Majula is way better than firelink. It's not even close.
Gp1
Member
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Gruntilda's Lair is too intricate and confusing, and getting to later worlds like Click Clock Wood was a chore. Also, there's no main path for the player's mind to easily grasp and orient themselves, and switching between a later world like Rusty Bucket Bay and Treasure Trove Cove takes so long you're better off saving the game and restarting from the entrance. But, I guess for some people that's part of the charm, because it's dense and explorable.
Compare that to Mario 64 with three main floors and a basement, all stacked on top of each other so it's easy to get a mental grasp on the overall design, and switching between an early world and a later world is fairly quick. An ideal hub world for me would be simple and memorizable in its basic design, but filled with secret paths attached to the main hub world. But not paths stacked upon paths until you're wondering where you are and debating resetting the game to avoid a long backtrack.
Compare that to Mario 64 with three main floors and a basement, all stacked on top of each other so it's easy to get a mental grasp on the overall design, and switching between an early world and a later world is fairly quick. An ideal hub world for me would be simple and memorizable in its basic design, but filled with secret paths attached to the main hub world. But not paths stacked upon paths until you're wondering where you are and debating resetting the game to avoid a long backtrack.
Jinzo Prime
Member
So what's your favorite hubs?
IAmRei
Member
that's why i say "my own"
tomato shrub
Member
Rare was overrated in some aspects, but they for sure made the most intriguing hub worlds for mascot games. DKC3, Banjo, Diddy Kong Racing..
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NeverYouMind
Member
Not as boring as any Mario game.
ecosse_011172
Gold Member
Well that's a mature argument.
I really wanted to like Psychonauts 2, was very enthusiastic after never really playing the original but it was dull to me.
NeverYouMind
Member
That summarizes my experience with every Mario game after Super Mario Bros. 3. Even despite liking setting and gimmicks of Sunshine the most out of the 3D titles I can't be assed to finish it.
ecosse_011172
Gold Member
Each to their own.
ZehDon
Member
It's really solid, agreed. The hub world was a level unto itself - puzzles, themeing, music - but the cohesion of it all, the scale of it all, was super magical as a kid.
As an adult, I really appreciate how understandable that entire game is, and Gruntilda's Lair is the epitome of that. Despite it's scale, it's actually hard to get truly lost; things are clearly designated using visuals and sounds, they limit the number of ways areas can fork to make exploration less daunting, and their art style is so whimsical and yet so clear that you can understand things just by looking at them. It all comes together into a perfect little package that makes you wanna see what's around the next corner, solve the next puzzle, understand the next mystery. Super Mario 64 may be the most important 3D Platformer of all time, but I think Banjo-Kazooie just about perfected it. And Peach's Castle versus Gruntilda's Lair is the kill shot - there's simply no comparison.
As an adult, I really appreciate how understandable that entire game is, and Gruntilda's Lair is the epitome of that. Despite it's scale, it's actually hard to get truly lost; things are clearly designated using visuals and sounds, they limit the number of ways areas can fork to make exploration less daunting, and their art style is so whimsical and yet so clear that you can understand things just by looking at them. It all comes together into a perfect little package that makes you wanna see what's around the next corner, solve the next puzzle, understand the next mystery. Super Mario 64 may be the most important 3D Platformer of all time, but I think Banjo-Kazooie just about perfected it. And Peach's Castle versus Gruntilda's Lair is the kill shot - there's simply no comparison.
kevboard
Member
unless you like fun controls and player expression of course...
kiphalfton
Member
Have yet to play these games, largely in part to Microsoft failing to release Rare Replay on PC. Which was/is a huge misstep.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Tooie is a very underappreciated game. I love that the hub world clearly guides you though each area using Hag1's tire tracks.
Even if Isle O' Hags is a bit too big, it's hard to actually get lost.