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[DJ12]

Some people post the same thing over and over with very little actual facts, and ignore what devs are reported as saying.

Fact is, anyone saying anything is making a guess, however they want to sugar coat it with made up numbers and their own asumptions.

This is always the worst time of the cycle, Microsoft and Sony have said litterally nothing, so for a bit of internet fame people start posting like they know something, when clearly they dont.

For every pastebin that might be genuine, there are 99 fakes from people that don't like what the genuine one said.

Same with forum posters.

Roll on Microsoft's London event, and PSX to end this annoying drivel.

 

[Negotiator]

AMD Files Patent for Hybrid Ray Tracing Solution

AMD's stayed quiet about how it plans to support ray tracing, but a patent application published on June 27 offered a glimpse at what it's been working on.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Fake]

Guesses, leaks, info, pastebin, code, gpu, etc...

That tweet is nothing of this. Its just like post 'I hate games' on a gaming thread or 'hype is bs' on a get hype thread. Here is a speculation thread, not a 'living and learning' thread.

 

[ethomaz]

This thread become too boring due the lack of leaks...

Some crazy speculations of course but not enough to give any real ideia

 

[Fake]

This thread become too boring due the lack of leaks...

Some crazy speculations of course but not enough to give any real ideia

Thats what happens when they release a final dev kit. I expecting more PS5 info after E3 (Blast you DF), but I guess Sony back down.

 

[TLZ]

Well at least we got improvement from 13-14TF. Glad you guys stopped using it and started accepting less then 10TF. Who estimated it? I have been doing it for weeks here while some of you have ejaculated on stupidest shit pastebin can offer. Now all of the sudden Gonzalo is legit and "its speculated" 9.2TF is magic number. Its up from my because it assumes 40 active CUs instead of 36, thats all difference.

I am using 8.5TF because I do believe for both, 9TF will be tough order (TDP limits). Possible, but very tough.

I am using 8.5TF because it matches 40CU (4 deactivated) x 1800MHZ on 316mm² die.

So again, sorry for actually trying to connect the dots instead drive by posting "Lalala anything below 12TF is embarassment".

I wanted no less than 12TF back with GCN. Since RDNA reveal I'm ok seeing lower single digits if it means it performs better than 12TF GCN.

 

[ethomaz]

Thats what happens when they release a final dev kit. I expecting more PS5 info after E3 (Blast you DF), but I guess Sony back down.

I'm not sure why DF teased that lol
I just Xbox Scarlett videos after the tease... ok ok one Switch Pro speculation video too.

 

[CyberPanda]

AMD Files Patent for Hybrid Ray Tracing Solution

AMD's stayed quiet about how it plans to support ray tracing, but a patent application published on June 27 offered a glimpse at what it's been working on.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[CrustyBritches]

AMD Files Patent for Hybrid Ray Tracing Solution

AMD's stayed quiet about how it plans to support ray tracing, but a patent application published on June 27 offered a glimpse at what it's been working on.

www.tomshardware.com

Nice find. Somebody was talking about hybrid/shader based RT a while back, but I can't remember. I'll have to try and find it.

 

[R600]

Ok so seems like 5700 (XT?) result is with CPU. AMD and Intel, confirmed by Apisak. So :

Overall score - 22.5K
GPU score - 26K

 

[mckmas8808]

Ok so seems like 5700 (XT?) result is with CPU. AMD and Intel, confirmed by Apisak. So :

Overall score - 22.5K
GPU score - 26K

So the overall score IS always lower.

 

[xool]

Ok so seems like 5700 (XT?) result is with CPU. AMD and Intel, confirmed by Apisak. So :

Overall score - 22.5K
GPU score - 26K

So this means that Gonzalo (APU) (20000+) is weaker than 5700+CPU if the combined Firestrike scores mean anything ?

Doesn't this set an upper limit on PS5 power?

 

[R600]

So this means that Gonzalo (APU) (20000+) is weaker than 5700+CPU if the combined Firestrike scores mean anything ?

Doesn't this set an upper limit on PS5 power?

Its 5700XT. He is from Taiwan so its a bit hard to understand, but I think its 5700 XT score overall (22.5K) and GPU (26K).

Depending on how good Zen2 at 3.2GHZ is, Id say this means PS5 is between two Navis.

 

[xool]

Its 5700XT. He is from Taiwan so its a bit hard to understand, but I think its 5700 XT score overall (22.5K) and GPU (26K).

I've been going through the tweets and can't find anything to confirm XT .. did you find one?

 

[R600]

I've been going through the tweets and can't find anything to confirm XT .. did you find one?

He has been referencing XT with 5700 entire time so I think its 5700XT duo to 5700 having no chance of that score (10% higher then 2070).

 

[CrustyBritches]

I'm guessing that's 5700 XT as well, but we'll find out for sure once somebody asks him. If so, 5700 Pro at 1.8GHz seems like it could produce that 20k combined score when paired with a Zen 2 8c/16t. We'll see.

 

[bitbydeath]

Glad you guys stopped using it and started accepting less then 10TF.

12TF-13TF team checking in.
We will never bend the knee.

 

[xool]

tbh Apisak's ballpark figures are pretty much where a sane person would expect them to be..

..it's human nature to set expectations a little higher I guess

 

[SlimySnake]

So the overall score IS always lower.

That means the gonzolo 20k+ score is being held back by the CPU as well. Its possible gonzolo's gpu score is also 26k.

 

[mckmas8808]

tbh Apisak's ballpark figures are pretty much where a sane person would expect them to be..

..it's human nature to set expectations a little higher I guess

No so far Gonzolo is scoring about where most of us reasonable people thought it would score.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Still hard to tell what card, but looks like the 26K graphics score is 5700XT...

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Samsung Reveals 7nm EUV's Breakdown Voltage; Process Ready For Volume Production

Korean tech giant Samsung has demonstrated that its 7nm EUV manufacturing process is right on track and is ready for volume production.

wccftech.com

Hope to god and sony and ms use this opportunity. fuck the current 7nm

 

[bitbydeath]

12TF-13TF team checking in.
We will never bend the knee.

I feel like I should write something more to support my claim.

1. 5700/XT doesn’t support Ray Tracing. It could be added but that would apply additional taxes.

2. 4K is the base resolution which is said to span up to 8K. I can’t see a sub 10TF chip measuring up to that.

3. PSVR2 is going to require 4K native which means achieving above 4K is absolutely required.

4. AdoredTV. Haven’t we learned anything from leaks of yonder? They’re fake more often than not.

5. It makes no sense for Sony to run benchmarks in Windows when they use FreeBSD.

6. If Sony were to use hardware that released this year then they could release this year too. Why hold it back?

 

[ArabianPrynce]

I feel like I should write something more to support my claim.

1. 5700/XT doesn’t support Ray Tracing. It could be added but that would apply additional taxes.

2. 4K is the base resolution which is said to span up to 8K. I can’t see a sub 10TF chip measuring up to that.

3. PSVR2 is going to require 4K native which means achieving above 4K is absolutely required.

4. AdoredTV. Haven’t we learned anything from leaks of yonder? They’re fake more often than not.

5. It makes no sense for Sony to run benchmarks in Windows when they use FreeBSD.

6. If Sony were to use hardware that released this year then they could release this year too. Why hold it back?

Same, i dont see any other reason to delay the ps5 til 2020 unless they plan on using 7nm euv for extra power and cus'. If sony were to settle for the current 7nm they would have released it this year.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Samsung Reveals 7nm EUV's Breakdown Voltage; Process Ready For Volume Production

Korean tech giant Samsung has demonstrated that its 7nm EUV manufacturing process is right on track and is ready for volume production.

wccftech.com

Hope to god and sony and ms use this opportunity. fuck the current 7nm

SonGoku N Negotiator

 

[FrostyJ93]

I think we are going to see Scarlett again in some capacity at X019. Same with PS5 at a hypothetical PSX 2019.

 

[mckmas8808]

I feel like I should write something more to support my claim.


6. If Sony were to use hardware that released this year then they could release this year too. Why hold it back?

Consoles always use hardware that's a year or so old to PC for the most part (since the PS3\Xbox 360 days). It's not possible to release a GPU from AMD in July of 2019 for $450 and then use a similar GPU in the PS5 and sell the whole console for $500 ONLY 4 months later.

 

[FranXico]

Consoles always use hardware that's a year or so old to PC for the most part (since the PS3\Xbox 360 days). It's not possible to release a GPU from AMD in July of 2019 for $450 and then use a similar GPU in the PS5 and sell the whole console for $500 ONLY 4 months later.

Sony in 2020 may be more willing to take a financial hit than Sony in 2013.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

on regards to power, i think the most logical conclusion right now is that both consoles will be nearly identical. theres no year gap to provide an edge, they are both using the exact same AMD tech, and neither are making a console designed for anything but games.

The only differences we might see is if someone was willing to hit a higher price mark (or take a loss) and put in more ram or cooling to allow higher clocks. There might also be a slight difference in the custom changes each company made.

Either console being 30% or “significantly” more powerful is pure nonsense. But as a betting man, if any console managed to be noticeably more powerful then ill go with the company that has more to lose by making a weaker console

 

[FrostyJ93]

Tbh is rather a $400 checkerboard 4k console than a $500 native 4k console.

 

[Fake]

Tbh is rather a $400 checkerboard 4k console than a $500 native 4k console.

PRO and X for you them.

 

[CyberPanda]

Consoles always use hardware that's a year or so old to PC for the most part (since the PS3\Xbox 360 days). It's not possible to release a GPU from AMD in July of 2019 for $450 and then use a similar GPU in the PS5 and sell the whole console for $500 ONLY 4 months later.

Actually the 360 used top of the line graphics card Xenos, and it has unified shaders which PCs did not have at all at that time. It was first of its kind. And cell and xenon were better CPUs than majority found in PCs during that time as well. The XDR RAM in PS3 was one of its kind etc.

Microsoft's Xbox 360, Sony's PS3 - A Hardware Discussion

www.anandtech.com

 

[TLZ]

Actually the 360 used top of the line graphics card Xenos, and it has unified shaders which PCs did not have at all at that time. It was first of its kind. And cell and xenon were better CPUs than majority found in PCs during that time as well. The XDR RAM in PS3 was one of its kind etc.

Microsoft's Xbox 360, Sony's PS3 - A Hardware Discussion

www.anandtech.com

Yea. I thought all consoles since the NES were like that at release. Only this gen released weaker because they were off the shelf etc.

 

[CyberPanda]

Yea. I thought all consoles since the NES were like that at release. Only this gen released weaker because they were off the shelf etc.

Yea, they also want to maximize profits, and save as much money as they can. PS3/360 gen was top of the line and awesome.

 

[mckmas8808]

Actually the 360 used top of the line graphics card Xenos, and it has unified shaders which PCs did not have at all at that time. It was first of its kind. And cell and xenon were better CPUs than majority found in PCs during that time as well. The XDR RAM in PS3 was one of its kind etc.

Microsoft's Xbox 360, Sony's PS3 - A Hardware Discussion

www.anandtech.com

You are only telling half truths. On the PC side we can only compare GPUs to the console, since the CPUs aren't comparable. And yes Xenos did things that PC GPUs didn't do at the time, but compare it to what was out and you'll see it was based on PC hardware (as far as power goes) that came out a year before.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 or Xbox Scarlett had some feature that wasn't in PCs this year, but that doesn't change the historical facts on how this stuff works.

 

[archy121]

Tbh is rather a $400 checkerboard 4k console than a $500 native 4k console.

Give me solid 1440P 60FPS HDR RT UHD BR @$399 And I’m done.

 

[Mass Shift]

.

Some people post the same thing over and over with very little actual facts, and ignore what devs are reported as saying.

Fact is, anyone saying anything is making a guess, however they want to sugar coat it with made up numbers and their own asumptions.

This is always the worst time of the cycle, Microsoft and Sony have said litterally nothing, so for a bit of internet fame people start posting like they know something, when clearly they dont.

For every pastebin that might be genuine, there are 99 fakes from people that don't like what the genuine one said.

Same with forum posters.

Roll on Microsoft's London event, and PSX to end this annoying drivel.

I wouldn't call it annoying. It's actually quite entertaining and informative at the same time. One thing is for certain, there's going to winners and losers in these types of high stakes all or nothing discussions about hardware specifications.

The meltdowns will be just as epic as the celebrations

 

[Gamernyc78]

.


I wouldn't call it annoying. It's actually quite entertaining and informative at the same time. One thing is for certain, there's going to winners and losers in these types of high stakes all or nothing discussions about hardware specifications.

The meltdowns will be just as epic as the celebrations

I've seen so many meltdowns through the years and it never gets tiring. Well what really happens is the fanboys disappear for a few weeks or come up with an excuse like "but the head of so and so company told me that the system is still better and as powerful because it's more efficient and the parts work in harmony" or my favorite "unless you have a big screen things aren't noticable"

 

[SonGoku]

You also have to take into account PS4Pro was "4K machine", made specifically for 4K TVs as Cerny said, yet its ultimately not here nor there.

Cerny said from the get go PS4Pro didn't have the power to brute force 4k and put emphasis on checkerboard rendering
ruthenicookie put it in terms the layman could understand: 4K/60FPS that's 1080Ti tier card and above, now whether he is right or wrong is up for discussion but the intent of his claim is clear

1) Codename does not fit MS/AMD chips, but it does, perfectly so for Sony/AMD
2) 13e9 is internal Ariel GPU, as per PCI ID, matching Gonzalo.

1. That can be faked
2. Ariel is not confirmed to be Sony by any metric (komachi=/confirmation)

is slightly below Radeon7 (8.7K)

Radeon 7 scores 9.5k on timespy

 

[Thedtrain]

Cerny said from the get go PS4Pro didn't have the power to brute force 4k and put emphasis on checkerboard rendering
ruthenicookie put it in terms the layman could understand: 4K/60FPS that's 1080Ti tier card and above, now whether he is right or wrong is up for discussion but the intent of his claim is clear

1. That can be faked
2. Ariel is not confirmed to be Sony by any metric (komachi=/confirmation)

Radeon 7 scores 9.5k on timespy

Koguson, only the leaks I like are true. Come on man

 

[SonGoku]

SonGoku
And remember Arturus, the "new architecture" theory that some were spreading before we knew Scarlett is Zen2 and Navi?... Again Xbox related.

Yeah but no relation with spanish names afaik

1.41x in perf/TF is increase of Navi>Vega.

That remains to be seen outside of cherry picked benches
Dont get me wrong i want Navi to match nvidias flops as much as possible but i find it suspect their official claim is 1.25X IPC which contradicts the 1.4x seen in pr benches

Now they've taken ownership

Not me though want nothing to do with peasant Navi10

Koguson, only the leaks I like are true. Come on man

lol if only it was that ez I'd choose the early pastebin leak with 14TF
Note the post you quoted i said:

now whether he is right or wrong is up for discussion but the intent of his claim is clear

To remain somewhat neutral, but i won't deny i dislike gonzolo

 

[demigod]

Gonzalo is more inline with Durango.

Also the 2G is closer to the One X 1G codename.

 

[SonGoku]

Gonzolo is more inline with Durango.

Yeah that bit bothers me, Gonzalo is so out of character for Sony, they would never name their chip that
I don't think Scarlett is gonlozo either

Suborz+ or lockart would be my best guess if gonzolo is indeed real.

 

[vpance]

Search "Chairman Gonzalo"

He was a communist, marxist and believer in Maoism. Chip is more likely to be for some Chinese console.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah that bit bothers me, Gonzalo is so out of character for Sony, they would never name their chip that
I don't think Scarlett is gonlozo either

Suborz+ or lockart would be my best guess if gonzolo is indeed real.

Orbis - PS4
Morpheus - PSVR
Neo - PS4 Pro

The firmware updates were Samurai names.

PS3 was just Cell I think.

 

[SonGoku]

2) Sony went HBM2 and less RAM which gave them room to fit 10-16 more CU

16 more CUs won't make a difference, the main thing is that to have more than 48-52CU chip an additional SE needs to be added and with that you'll go slightly above 400mm2
I don't know how much die space (if at all) hbm would save over a traditional 320-384bit bus though

If you believe in OQA 315nm2 leak

	7nm DUV	7nm EUV (20% reduction)
66CU - 384bit bus 24GB - 60 enabled​	435.85mm2​	348.68mm2​
66CU - 320bit bus 20GB - 60 enabled​	419.53mm2​	335.62mm2​
66CU - 256bit bus 32GB - 60 enabled​	403.21mm2​	322.5mm2​
60CU - 256bit bus 32GB - 54 enabled​	388.54mm2​	310.8mm2​

Spoiler: calculations

75mm for CPU
97.92mm2 for 384 bit bus (24GB)
69.99mm2 for 3SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 20.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
161.37mm2 33DCUs with RT (66CUs)
Total:
435.85mm2 7nm DUV
348.68mm2 7nm EUV


75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus (20GB)
69.99mm2 for 3SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 20.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
161.37mm2 33DCUs with RT (66CUs)
Total:
419.53mm2 7nm DUV
335.62mm2 7nm EUV

75mm for CPU
65.28mm2 for 256 bit bus (32GB)
69.99mm2 for 3SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 20.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
161.37mm2 33DCUs with RT (66CUs)
Total:
403.21 on 7nm DUV
322.5 on 7nm EUV

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Ok guys, I have no interest (or understanding) on the latest spec diagrams.

So what's the latest TF estimate? Still holding at 12 TF?

 

[SonGoku]

So what's the latest TF estimate? Still holding at 12 TF?

depends of process node
7nm DUV: 9TF conservative - 10TF optimistic
7nm EUV: 11-12TF (conservative) 13-14TF ( optimistic)

 

[Imtjnotu]

the amount of turns this thread has taken. we have had leaks. pastebins. 2007 console wars. ps4 crap throwing. 7nm wars. tweets with random letters and numbers. 8tf scandal. Random benchmarks. cant wait to see what next weeks storyline is

 

[SonGoku]

Consoles always use hardware that's a year or so old to PC for the most part (since the PS3\Xbox 360 days)

360 used future GPU tech
PS3 used trash RSX
PS4 used a GPU with the latest GCN version launching the same year
PS4 Pro was based on the RX480 (same year launch) with double the ROPs and some Vega features
XBONEX was based on the RX580 (same year launch) but had extra CUs and more advanced cache system

The precedent is set for consoles using the latest or better tech than currently available.

AMD Files Patent for Hybrid Ray Tracing Solution

AMD's stayed quiet about how it plans to support ray tracing, but a patent application published on June 27 offered a glimpse at what it's been working on.

www.tomshardware.com

This points towards RT HW using very little die space.