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[The Mad Draklor]

Exactly! But BCPack has considerably better compression for texture data than Kraken. That was my argument. Sony's throughput is 7-9 GB/s. XSX is 4-6 GB/s

BCPack is a progressively lossy solution the more you increase the compression ratio. Kraken is lossless and can decompress more than just textures.

 

[SonGoku]

Well, arguable, to put it softly:



As for "true" RT: it is a fallacy.
We are at least decade away from zero-rasterization runtime full frame ray tracing (and I'm being very optimistic here).
All the crap we have at the moment is lot's of noise blurred out for some shadows and reflections.

Doesn't change the fact that hardware accelerated RT is order of magnitudes faster than software based. Software based solutions on mainstream cards will be more limited and the same could be achieved with hardware acceleration at a fraction of the cost.

Anyways my point was both consoles would feature hardware based RT and they do!
I didn't say anything about true rt, i was agreeing with the comment i replied to and you forgot to quote the bit that talks about the demo

 

[B_Boss]

I am not sure if this has already been talked about earlier but since I have not seen it I will post it here. There is a LOT of information so I have put it in pictures.

The following information is taken from "Moore's law is dead" youtube channel and specially from his comment section where he talks more indepth what third party developer have told him and his personal analysis.

The comments come from several diffrent videos. Important to know is that his sources are all third party developers and he has inside information om both consoles.

Leaked images and info:


His Info from comment sections:

Uhh...if this pic is legit...that internal SSD looks removable ....not that is care to given it's custom nature so early on but interesting to think about after seeing it.

Edit: I'm aware the images are not that of the PS5's internal components .

 

[Aceofspades]

Exactly! But BCPack has considerably better compression for texture data than Kraken. That was my argument. Sony's throughput is 7-9 GB/s. XSX is 4-6 GB/s

Bolded is desperate attempt to bring XSX compression to PS5 levels Lol. Shaving a gig here, adding a gig there

XSX: 2.4GB/s Raw 4.8GB/s Compressed 6GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor

PS5: 5.5GB/s Raw 8-9GB/s Compressed 22GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor.

Numbers doesn't lie

 

[rntongo]

I believe that I can since the PS5's decompressor was designed for the very purpose of offloading the task of decompressing data from the PS5's CPU in order to free the PS5's CPU to perform other tasks and in order to do so more efficiently than the CPU would do so. Furthermore, it's only logical to consider the PS5's decompressor as an extension of the PS5's CPU because when comparing the PS5 to its competitor, the XSX, the PS5's decompressor may be very relevant since it frees the PS5's CPU to a degree that the XSX's decompressor may not free the XSX's CPU.

That last statement is false. Both have hardware accelerated decompression for the sole purpose of offloading the task from the CPU. The only advantages(which ate not clear) we've seen are in terms of the File IO co-processors(one handling mapping) in the PS5. But this is negligible because in the XSX, DirectStorage works in tandem with the decompression block to bring File IO overhead on the CPU to one tenth of a core.

Then the DMA controller for checkin and load management in the PS5 is also an advantage but the Xbox One X had one and the XSX is rumored to have one as well. So we'll need to hear more.

Then finally the coherency chip and scrubbers in the GPU. Thats the one bottleneck where the PS5 may have a clear advantage. XSX doesn't have anything like this as far as we know. But the most important ones are File IO are decompression.

Basically both systems eliminate bottlenecks in the SSD. Although the PS5 is twice as fast, at effective speeds of 4GB/s, any game designed on the PS5 can be designed on the XSX.

 

[Gediminas]

Bolded is desperate attempt to bring XSX compression to PS5 levels Lol. Shaving a gig here, adding a gig there

XSX: 2.4GB/s Raw 4.8GB/s Compressed 6GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor

PS5: 5.5GB/s Raw 8-9GB/s Compressed 22GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor.

Numbers doesn't lie

he also said " But Sony is not using RDO and he was just giving options for how Sony can possibly match BCPack. "

i scratched my head and started to think, why Sony would want to lower their spec to match bcpack?

 

[ethomaz]

Everybody uses rate distortion optimization for every type of encoding, audio, video, texture etc. RDO is just a way to analyze and see how far off from the original source the compressed output is and trying to be as close to it as possible to reduce artifacts.

But Kraken is lossless so you don't need RDO? The compressed source is identical to original.

 

[SonGoku]

Sony's throughput is 7-9 GB/s. XSX is 4-6 GB/s

That's not quite right going by released information
XSX

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 6GB/s
• Texture streaming only (BCPack): 4.8GB/s

PS5

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 22GB/s
• General data streaming: 8-9GB/s

 

[MasterCornholio]

Bolded is desperate attempt to bring XSX compression to PS5 levels Lol. Shaving a gig here, adding a gig there

XSX: 2.4GB/s Raw 4.8GB/s Compressed 6GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor

PS5: 5.5GB/s Raw 8-9GB/s Compressed 22GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor.

Numbers doesn't lie

I mean if he wants to add the theoretical maxes it would look more like this.

PS5: 5.5GB/s ---> 22 GB/s
Xbox Series X: 2.4 GB/s ---> 6GB/s

Its kind of silly to do and makes the situation look worse in my opinion.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

That last statement is false. Both have hardware accelerated decompression for the sole purpose of offloading the task from the CPU. The only advantages(which ate not clear) we've seen are in terms of the File IO co-processors(one handling mapping) in the PS5. But this is negligible because in the XSX, DirectStorage works in tandem with the decompression block to bring File IO overhead on the CPU to one tenth of a core.

Then the DMA controller for checkin and load management in the PS5 is also an advantage but the Xbox One X had one and the XSX is rumored to have one as well. So we'll need to hear more.

Then finally the coherency chip and scrubbers in the GPU. Thats the one bottleneck where the PS5 may have a clear advantage. XSX doesn't have anything like this as far as we know. But the most important ones are File IO are decompression.

Basically both systems eliminate bottlenecks in the SSD. Although the PS5 is twice as fast, at effective speeds of 4GB/s, any game designed on the PS5 can be designed on the XSX.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tripolygon]

But Kraken is lossless so you don't need RDO? The compressed source is identical to original.

BCPack and Kraken have different use case. Before any thing is compressed using zlib or kraken, the texture is compressed using block compression format this is where BCPack and RDO comes in. Every GPU supports BC texture format which I assume is what BCPack deals with. RDO is used for any lossy compression to optimize the compression rate to the amount of distortion you get.

This is what i mean by everyone uses RDO. Every Youtube video you have watched, picture you have taken with your camera and MP3 file you have played employs some type of rate distortion optimization algorithm.

Improving the compression of block-compressed textures Revisited

ADD: the best solution for this now is our new product Oodle Texture I'm leaving this post for historical reference, but it is now obso...

cbloomrants.blogspot.com

Block Compression (Direct3D 10) - Win32 apps

Block compression is a texture compression technique for reducing texture size.

docs.microsoft.com

 

[llien]

PS3, PS4 and likely future PS5 owner here. (no XBes, ever). But, dude, you are pushing it way to far.

XSX: 2.4GB/s Raw

3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.

That's not quite right going by released information
XSX

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 6GB/s
• Texture streaming only (BCPack): 4.8GB/s

PS5

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 22GB/s
• General data streaming: 8-9GB/s

This is misleading as fuck:

1) 22GB/s is BULLSHIT figure some chip can pump. If there was a figure for similar SeX chip published by reliable source, I want to see the #receipts.
2) Kraken unlikely to beat algo specifically created for texture compression
3) Kraken vs Zlib is the actual advantage PS5 has vs SeX, which Cerny estimated to be about 10% better compression

 

[Tripolygon]

1) 22GB/s is BULLSHIT figure some chip can pump. If there was a figure for similar SeX chip published by reliable source, I want to see the #receipts.

It is right there 6GB/s that's what Microsoft says in the DF article.

 

[SonGoku]

If only these consoles had some alternative to DLSS by AMD.

DLSS is not some holly grail for consoles, its great for PCs with multiple configurations where one solution works for every game
AAA console games can have their own reconstruction technique tailored to the specific render resolution hell they could even use server farms to do offline AI calculations to improve their reconstruction technique. The tailored solution has potential to provide better results

 

[Mr Moose]

3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.

Where are you getting this number from?
It's 2.4GB/s in Series X.

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing... news.xbox.com

2.4 GB/s (Raw), 4.8 GB/s (Compressed, with custom hardware decompression block)

 

[Thirty7ven]

PS3, PS4 and likely future PS5 owner here. (no XBes, ever). But, dude, you are pushing it way to far.


3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.

Where are you getting this number? Why the bullshit? It's 2.4 GB/s (Raw), 4.8 GB/s (compressed) .

 

[ethomaz]

PS3, PS4 and likely future PS5 owner here. (no XBes, ever). But, dude, you are pushing it way to far.


3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.


This is misleading as fuck:

1) 22GB/s is BULLSHIT figure some chip can pump. If there was a figure for similar SeX chip published by reliable source, I want to see the #receipts.
2) Kraken unlikely to beat algo specifically created for texture compression
3) Kraken vs Zlib is the actual advantage PS5 has vs SeX, which Cerny estimated to be about 10% better compression

There is no bullshit here.
22GB/s is the same theoretical limit like 6GB/s for Xbox.

Kraken doesn't need to beat something specifically created for texture compression because the SSDs is already too higher to Xbox even try to match it.
Kraken lossless 30-40% >>>> BCPack lossy 50% (4.8GB/s) ou even 70% (8GB/s).

Reality.

RAW: 2.4GB/s vs 5.5GB/s
Compressed: 4.8GB/s (BCPack lossy 50%) vs 8-9GB/s (Kraken lossless 30-40%).

 

[B_Boss]

Here we have some benchmarks at the bottom.
Essentially Kraken is ~3x on a typical mix of game BCn texture data. And that's without RDO.

Interestingly, or ironically enough lol, the blogger states:

The best tool I know of at the moment to do RDO texture creation is crunch by Rich Geldreich / Binomial.

(emphasis mine).

I am not saying I am not, I feel the need to break the combo : D

This topic has executed a Manual Linker on you lol...your Combo Breaker effectively evaded .

 

[ethomaz]

BCPack and Kraken have different use case. Before any thing is compressed using zlib or kraken, the texture is compressed using block compression format this is where BCPack and RDO comes in. Every GPU supports BC texture format which I assume is what BCPack deals with. RDO is used for any lossy compression to optimize the compression rate to the amount of distortion you get.

This is what i mean by everyone uses RDO. Every Youtube video you have watched, picture you have taken with your camera and MP3 file you have played employs some type of rate distortion optimization algorithm.

Block Compression (Direct3D 10) - Win32 apps

Block compression is a texture compression technique for reducing texture size.

docs.microsoft.com

I don't think PS5 will use lossy compressed data... the SSD speeds already allow them use anything lossless with zlib or Kraken compression.
Just doesn't make sense to use lossy with RDO to reach I don't know 10-10GB/s over the 8-9GB/s lossless.

 

[Aceofspades]

3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.

Check your numbers again brother.

 

[SonGoku]

3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.

2.4GB/s

1) 22GB/s is BULLSHIT figure some chip can pump. If there was a figure for similar SeX chip published by reliable source, I want to see the #receipts.
2) Kraken unlikely to beat algo specifically created for texture compression
3) Kraken vs Zlib is the actual advantage PS5 has vs SeX, which Cerny estimated to be about 10% better compression

1. What are you on about? 6GB/s and 22GB/s are the decompression blocks peak throughput figures given by MS & Sony respectively. I didn't say either of them would reach those speeds commonly
2. Texture compression algorithm can be used in conjunction with Kraken. Besides even only using general Kraken compression it reaches a higher throughput than XSX using only textures compression, hence 8-9GB/s vs 4.8GB/s.

 

[M1chl]

Interestingly, or ironically enough lol, the blogger states:



(emphasis mine).



This topic has executed a Manual Linker on you lol...your Combo Breaker effectively evaded .

[REDACTED]

 

[MasterCornholio]

2.4GB/s

1. What are you on about? 6GB/s and 22GB/s are the decompression blocks peak throughput figures given by MS & Sony respectively. I didn't say either of them would reach those speeds commonly
2. Texture compression algorithm can be used in conjunction with Kraken. Not that it changes anything even only using general Kraken compression it reaches a higher throughput than XSX using only textures compression, hence 8-9GB/s vs 4.8GB/s.

Maybe llien just got his information from a bad source. It could have been a typo in some article that he read. Hopefully your explanation clears this up for him.

 

[llien]

It's 2.4GB/s in Series X.

Mea culpa.

What are you on about? 6GB/s and 22GB/s are the decompression blocks peak throughput figures given by MS & Sony respectively. I didn't say either of them would reach those speeds commonly

22 figure is times above of expected throughtput (per Cerny himself).

Texture compression algorithm can be used in conjunction with Kraken.

Cerny haven't mentioned the specific IO chip supporting specific texture compression algos.

Not that it changes anything even using general Kraken compression it reaches a higher throughput than XSX

That's wild imagination at work, based on misleading 22GB/s.
Nobody, including Cerny, has expected that kind of compression ratios, let alone with textures.

 

[Imtjnotu]

PS3, PS4 and likely future PS5 owner here. (no XBes, ever). But, dude, you are pushing it way to far.


3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.


This is misleading as fuck:

1) 22GB/s is BULLSHIT figure some chip can pump. If there was a figure for similar SeX chip published by reliable source, I want to see the #receipts.
2) Kraken unlikely to beat algo specifically created for texture compression
3) Kraken vs Zlib is the actual advantage PS5 has vs SeX, which Cerny estimated to be about 10% better compression

So now we just making up numbers

 

[M-V2]

Before
10.2tf vs 12.1tf

Now
Kraken vs BCpack

I mean stop trying mate, SX is higher in TF and the PS5 is stronger in SSD

5.5gb vs 2.4 (raw)
9/8 vs 4.8 (compressed)

Simple numbers simple conclusions. Stop making it harder for yourself by trying harder.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

PS3, PS4 and likely future PS5 owner here. (no XBes, ever). But, dude, you are pushing it way to far.


3.5GB/s vs 5.5GB/s raw.


This is misleading as fuck:

1) 22GB/s is BULLSHIT figure some chip can pump. If there was a figure for similar SeX chip published by reliable source, I want to see the #receipts.
2) Kraken unlikely to beat algo specifically created for texture compression
3) Kraken vs Zlib is the actual advantage PS5 has vs SeX, which Cerny estimated to be about 10% better compression

I think Xbox officials were just showing 2.4GB/s not 3.5GB/s for raw:

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

Here's Sony official details:

Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]

Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.

blog.us.playstation.com

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

22 figure is times above of expected throughtput (per Cerny himself).

No is one is arguing otherwise. They're comparing both peaks, which is 6GB/s for the SX and 22 GB/s for the PS5

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

That last statement is false. Both have hardware accelerated decompression for the sole purpose of offloading the task from the CPU. The only advantages(which ate not clear) we've seen are in terms of the File IO co-processors(one handling mapping) in the PS5. But this is negligible because in the XSX, DirectStorage works in tandem with the decompression block to bring File IO overhead on the CPU to one tenth of a core.

Then the DMA controller for checkin and load management in the PS5 is also an advantage but the Xbox One X had one and the XSX is rumored to have one as well. So we'll need to hear more.

Then finally the coherency chip and scrubbers in the GPU. Thats the one bottleneck where the PS5 may have a clear advantage. XSX doesn't have anything like this as far as we know. But the most important ones are File IO are decompression.

Basically both systems eliminate bottlenecks in the SSD. Although the PS5 is twice as fast, at effective speeds of 4GB/s, any game designed on the PS5 can be designed on the XSX.

XSX has ECC function and features on its GDDR6 memory; it may not serve the exact same purpose as the GPU cache scrubbers but conceptually seems like it would line up with what the coherency engines do (which I assume are there for retaining data integrity and keeping data synced), just at a different level of the memory hierarchy stack.

Outside of the GPU cache scrubbers I'd be surprised if XSX doesn't have equivalents for things like the DMA controller, so I agree on that point. What we will see are differing implementations of some of these things at different hierarchies of the system design, for what best serves the particular system. And that's pretty exciting to think about.

Before
10.2tf vs 12.1tf

Now
Kraken vs BCpack

I mean stop trying mate, SX is higher in TF and the PS5 is stronger in SSD

5.5gb vs 2.4 (raw)
9/8 vs 4.8 (compressed)

Simple numbers simple conclusions. Stop making it harder for yourself by trying harder.

So the paper specs matter again? At least keep consistent.

That's not quite right going by released information
XSX

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 6GB/s
• Texture streaming only (BCPack): 4.8GB/s

PS5

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 22GB/s
• General data streaming: 8-9GB/s

Have MS confirmed the 4.8 figure is only for BCPack, or is this an assumption on your end? Because I don't recall them specifying what compression tools (or combinations thereof) are providing some of those numbers.

 

[Tripolygon]

I don't think PS5 will use lossy compressed data... the SSD speeds already allow them use anything lossless with zlib or Kraken compression.
Just doesn't make sense to use lossy with RDO to reach I don't know 10-10GB/s over the 8-9GB/s lossless.

Of course it will. Lossy compresses better than lossless. You apply it where its needed to conserve memory and bandwidth.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I think we really need to ditch the whole "I expect company A to have a solution like company B" if we are talking hardware. Software, sure, I mean it's software.

 

[SonGoku]

22 figure is times above of expected throughtput (per Cerny himself).

22GB/s (just like 6GB/s for XSX) is a peak throughput figure for the hardware decompressing block. Again i repeat i didn't imply it would reach this speed commonly at least, though Cerny say it could if the data compressed particularly well.

Cerny haven't mentioned the specific IO chip supporting specific texture compression algos.

RDO lossy compression can be added to textures but again its likely not needed when it already typically outputs 8-9GB/s of lossles data

That's wild imagination at work, based on misleading 22GB/s.
Nobody, including Cerny, has expected that kind of compression ratios, let alone with textures.

Im not basing it on the hardware block peak throughput, its based on the figures given by Sony/MS
PS5: 8-9GB/s all data (30% to 40% compression)
XSX: 4.8GB/s only textures (50% compression)

 

[pasterpl]

BCPack lossy

where is this info coming from?

 

[megreotsugua]

RAW: 2.4GB/s vs 5.5GB/s
Compressed: 4.8GB/s (BCPack lossy 50%) vs 8-9GB/s (Kraken lossless 30-40%).

What's up with lossy texture?
How does lossy texture look like?
How much detail is lost?
Is lossless noticeably better than lossy?

 

[megreotsugua]

When you refers to "developers" who say that BCPack could outperform Kraken we also need to say that this speculation is comming from a former Microsoft employee.

So the rest of the users can get the full picture about the matter:

Also, this BCPack/Kraken thing was already addressed by him:

Moore's law is death:

"MS does not have better compression than Sony, that is BS"

"MS compression is worse according to developers"

Timestamped:

Spoiler

In any event, we will have the real data in a few weeks.

Funny times ahead, I guess

Has he proven in the past that he really do have contacts in the industry?

I mean this guy is saying what I essentially want to hear so I want to believe him.

 

[SlimySnake]

All this talk of sony's i/o and ssd solution is making me think that Cerny might have created a cheaper console that offers the same level of performance as the 12 tflops $499 series x.

It's a longshot, and sounds too good to be true, but if all the i/o hardware in the apu has removed all the bottlenecks than we might see those 10 tflops push above their weight. It's happened before. Nvidia tflops used to be much more powerful than amd tflops. they are roughly on par now, but it's possible that two rdna 2.0 cards would offer different levels of performance based on the i/o throughput. highly unlikely but possible. After all, the 40% increase in x1x tflops compared to the pro offered a 100% boost in resolution in rdr2 and other native 4k games on the x1x that top out at 1440p or checkerboard 4k. both have polaris based cards, but one has 35% higher clocks and better ram bandwidth.

i guess we will find out come launch if the 18% gap in tflops results in 18% more resolution or not.

Best case scenario for sony: cheaper ram and smaller die saves them $40-50. allows them to aim for the $449 price tag. Game comparisons at launch would show both versions running at same resolutions leaving sony with a console thats just as powerful with better loading, audio and maybe even better character models and level detail.

this would be the worst case scenario for MS. they went in with a brute force approach, and sacrificed ram to hit not just the $499 price point but also to reduce the thermal draw of 16gb of ram running at 560 gbps. sony's also gone for a brute force approach when it comes to high clocks, but their system seems to be designed to take advantage of the lack of high speed ram.

MS has to hope that the ssd is indeed a gimmick. They have to hope that their tflops are just as efficient as sony's. if not, they will have to take an even bigger loss and launch at $449.

i know there has been a lot of doom and gloom spread about sony's console, and rightfully so in some case. i think its still a possibility that sony's console is $499 and around 20-30% less powerful. but things might not be so clear cut for MS either. the smaller ssd, cheaper ram and apu, and an insanely efficient i/o might catch MS by surprise.

it's kinda exciting because things can go either way. it must be stressful for fanboys who want their team to win, but i say let the best man win.

 

[SonGoku]

Have MS confirmed the 4.8 figure is only for BCPack, or is this an assumption on your end? Because I don't recall them specifying what compression tools (or combinations thereof) are providing some of those numbers.

Good point, BCPack is definitely included that explains the 50% compression rate. Though it may be in combination with Zlib?

 

[llien]

Again i repeat i didn't imply it would reach this speed commonly at least, though Cerny say it could if the data compressed particularly well.

No shit, Watson, if data is compressed "particularly" well, it could.
The same could be said if it was 44GB/s.

Neither figure is actually relevant.

it already typically outputs 8-9GB/s of lossles data

I need to see the receipt for "typical" data being that compressable, textures in particular

PS5: 8-9GB/s all data (30% to 40% compression)
XSX: 4.8GB/s only textures (50% compression)

SeX was said to support zlib for non-textures.

 

[44alltheway]

Yo what ever happened that that guy OsirisBlack

 

[Ascend]

many Xbox fanboys reminds me of Apple fanboys, and both have made me dislike their products more than I would dislike them without their collective madness.

Similar deal with both groups, downplaying competitors, exaggerating their features/specs, lying, being emotional, having no real knowledge yet they believe some "tim doggo" if it suits their agenda, being super defensive and have delusions that everything is some kind of great war aka "talk about PS5 specs -> lol defending sony!! xsex is stronger!!". And all the other shit and drama and stubbornness

Like these theories similar to "so one CU of PS5 is the tempest engine!" while it makes no sense and Cerny kind of said it so that it is separate module, not one of GPUs CUs. Or "lol only 100 ps4 games will work!" when it was never said like that.

Talking to them is like talking to religious persons, while it is 100% clear that they are wrong, delusional and making things up from their imagination, it is not possible to talk sense to them as they repeat their faulty logical circle of "god is real because book said it, book is real because god wrote it!" Tim doggo is real because twitter said it, xbox is this and that because tim doggo said it

Dunno if it is because of American companies(as Americans seems to have really different mentality + culture than rest of the world). as worst fanboys I have encountered are xbox+apple+MS and probably the old "amercian cars are best, import cars are shit" wars too, which sounds ridiculous from non-american standpoint as Japanese cars are one of the best and reliable cars on the planet, they just dont drink petrol like a drunkard and arent 4x the size that regular person really needs.

And in the end any of this madness doesn't even matter as casuals wont give a rats ass about specs or great console wars, they just buy what is popular + what games are popular/they like.

There are of course Sony fanboys too, but imo they almost always try to backup their words with facts and what have been officially released, or speculated based on what is technically possible.



Current gen graphics are already passed the limit of being good enough, so I dont think that next gen will be about graphics as much as before, it could be much more about other features, like what SSD / audio + much stronger CPUs can offer, about VR and whatever new they can bake.

Imo it is already kind of boring as games are chacing real life like graphics, I dont want to be in life 2.0, I want to be in fantasy worlds that leave room for imagination to fill the caps. Like reading a book gives much better "special effects" than movies ever can, as imagination is stronger tool.

At 2027 whom still remembers this "lol 12 vs 10 tflops", probably just tim doggo and his cult, rest are just playing and getting ready for waiting release of PS6 vs Xbox series 6 or whatever it is called

The fact that you have to call out the so-called "Xbox fanboys" while it's quite clear to anyone non-biased that the Sony ones are a lot more prevalent, says a lot.

 

[SonGoku]

No shit, Watson, if data is compressed "particularly" well, it could.
The same could be said if it was 44GB/s.

Neither figure is actually relevant.

Why are you so irritated by this? look at the context: I was replying to a member who passed XSX hardware decompressing block peak throughput as a typical figure. If anything you should be giving him a hard time

I need to see the receipt for "typical" data being that compressable, textures in particular

Cerny explicitly said 8-9GB/s typically

SeX was said to support zlib for non-textures.

Im aware, what i mean is the 4.8GB/s figure given by MS already accounts for BCPack

 

[Aceofspades]

many Xbox fanboys reminds me of Apple fanboys, and both have made me dislike their products more than I would dislike them without their collective madness.

Similar deal with both groups, downplaying competitors, exaggerating their features/specs, lying, being emotional, having no real knowledge yet they believe some "tim doggo" if it suits their agenda, being super defensive and have delusions that everything is some kind of great war aka "talk about PS5 specs -> lol defending sony!! xsex is stronger!!". And all the other shit and drama and stubbornness

Like these theories similar to "so one CU of PS5 is the tempest engine!" while it makes no sense and Cerny kind of said it so that it is separate module, not one of GPUs CUs. Or "lol only 100 ps4 games will work!" when it was never said like that.

Talking to them is like talking to religious persons, while it is 100% clear that they are wrong, delusional and making things up from their imagination, it is not possible to talk sense to them as they repeat their faulty logical circle of "god is real because book said it, book is real because god wrote it!" Tim doggo is real because twitter said it, xbox is this and that because tim doggo said it

Dunno if it is because of American companies(as Americans seems to have really different mentality + culture than rest of the world). as worst fanboys I have encountered are xbox+apple+MS and probably the old "amercian cars are best, import cars are shit" wars too, which sounds ridiculous from non-american standpoint as Japanese cars are one of the best and reliable cars on the planet, they just dont drink petrol like a drunkard and arent 4x the size that regular person really needs.

And in the end any of this madness doesn't even matter as casuals wont give a rats ass about specs or great console wars, they just buy what is popular + what games are popular/they like.

There are of course Sony fanboys too, but imo they almost always try to backup their words with facts and what have been officially released, or speculated based on what is technically possible.



Current gen graphics are already passed the limit of being good enough, so I dont think that next gen will be about graphics as much as before, it could be much more about other features, like what SSD / audio + much stronger CPUs can offer, about VR and whatever new they can bake.

Imo it is already kind of boring as games are chacing real life like graphics, I dont want to be in life 2.0, I want to be in fantasy worlds that leave room for imagination to fill the caps. Like reading a book gives much better "special effects" than movies ever can, as imagination is stronger tool.

At 2027 whom still remembers this "lol 12 vs 10 tflops", probably just tim doggo and his cult, rest are just playing and getting ready for waiting release of PS6 vs Xbox series 6 or whatever it is called

F I R E

 

[RaZoR No1]

All this talk about the SSDs in the consoles, but how is the durability of those in a console? Will they survive a whole console lifetime?
At the moment even some normal HDDs die in a console and afaik SSD have even a worse lifespan than a HDD.
Has this changed now?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Yo what ever happened that that guy OsirisBlack

 

[squidilix]

Before
10.2tf vs 12.1tf

Now
Kraken vs BCpack

I mean stop trying mate, SX is higher in TF and the PS5 is stronger in SSD

5.5gb vs 2.4 (raw)
9/8 vs 4.8 (compressed)

Simple numbers simple conclusions. Stop making it harder for yourself by trying harder.

xFriend want XSX is better in all way....

Remember ESRAM is better than GDDR5.

 

[xool]

where is this info coming from?

The BCn texture compression schemes are lossy .. (see here about them) [this http://www.reedbeta.com/blog/understanding-bcn-texture-compression-formats/ is quite a good introduction imo ]

..however I/We don't know much about BCPack, which is named after them. It's not clear to me if they are directly based on BCn and extra compressed, or actually an alternative that they've used similar naming as a callback ..

 

[ethomaz]

What's up with lossy texture?
How does lossy texture look like?
How much detail is lost?
Is lossless noticeably better than lossy?

Think like PNG/FLAC vs JPEG/MP3.
Lossless (PNG/FLAC) there is no loss of quality... the compression is like ZIP archives that maintain the original file intact.
Lossy (JPEG/MP3) makes a similar result as original with loss of quality... the loss of quality depends of how much compression you do.... you can say MP3 below 64Kbps is pretty bad like JPEG quality below 80 it start to be noticeable the blur and artifacts.

For texture PGN vs JPEG comparison is better.

 

[rntongo]

That's not quite right going by released information
XSX

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 6GB/s
• Texture streaming only (BCPack): 4.8GB/s

PS5

• Decompression unit peak throughput: 22GB/s
• General data streaming: 8-9GB/s

We have no clarification on BCPack. All we know is that it can at least compress texture data 50% better than Kraken and that it's a part of XBTC(Xbox Texture Compression) which is being optimized as we speak. But the 6GB/s figure looks attainable. The 22GB figure from Sony seems to be a theoretical max like the 2.18 teraflop figure they claimed for the PS3. Theoretically possible but most likely not practically useful.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I don't think anybody said Gamepass wasn't a good deal or that it was a bad service. It's just that those arguing it's making bank don't understand how the model works.

The cult of personality around Phil is weird af too. He's not your friend and he hasn't turned things around, he is a figurehead who has made promises that's it. The only thing that changed for a Xbox One buyer was Gamepass, that's it.

Things sound better for the future and in a month or two they should look better.

Same goes for PS Now
Same for Cerny

Uhh...if this pic is legit...that internal SSD looks removable ....not that is care to given it's custom nature so early on but interesting to think about after seeing it.

Edit: I'm aware the images are not that of the PS5's internal components .

It's most likely removable by Sony and not the end-user for repair purposes.

 

[rntongo]

Bolded is desperate attempt to bring XSX compression to PS5 levels Lol. Shaving a gig here, adding a gig there

XSX: 2.4GB/s Raw 4.8GB/s Compressed 6GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor

PS5: 5.5GB/s Raw 8-9GB/s Compressed 22GB/s theoretical max for I/O decompressor.

Numbers doesn't lie

That 22GB/s figure reminds me of the 2.18 tflop figure Sony claimed for the PS3. Just seems impractical.

8-9 GB/s or maybe even up to 12 on the PS5 would make sense.

4-6GB/s on the XSX is definitely possible.