- Status
Metroiddarks
Member
Just imagine that game with RT to 60 fps .....
Neo Blaster
Member
Then Sony announces PS5 teardown in the same day and BOOM...Xsx game reveal event annoucmeent is not even trending top 20 in us. Weird
Darius87
Member
but culling doesn't happen at start of the render.
Agnostic2020
Member
Sorry not my intention .will delete the comment since it came out that way.
Btw is your dp the chick from workaholics? I love her she is funny as hell
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It's all good; not sure if you've brought it up before but man this forum goes giddy over Playstations social media engaegment and it makes me cringe kinda lolSorry not my intention .will delete the comment since it came out that way.
Btw is your dp the chick from workaholics? I love her she is funny as hell
And uh.. no... my avatar is not the girl from workaholics.
It's someone we all know and love though heehe
RiSA
Neo Member
With mesh shader and primitive shader, primitive culling has been moved to be executed as shader program on the CUs. Culling is not a particularly expensive operation, comparing to, say, rasterization.
farmerboy
Member
Whatever the plans, I wonder if the tlou2 leak has made them reconsider their timelines?
Papacheeks
Banned
Nah. They actually had June 19 planned for the new date because of C19. Now there were rumblings that they were going to do state of play and tease silent hill. But I think now that Xbox is going first week of may they will make theres closer to the last week of may/first week of june. Possibly June 4th.
And I think they will do more than just reveal console, that will be more than one digital event.
Gediminas
Banned
no, they hadn't. it was forced by a leak, release of tlou2 has nothing to do with c19.
it pissed me off, because Ghost of Tsushima was postpone.
Papacheeks
Banned
Nope try again. They were all working remotely, and post poned Last of us May release like almost a month ago. Earlier couple weeks ago spanish store listed Ghosts for July. People thought it was bullshit, but it wasn't.
Last of us took Ghosts spot and Ghost got moved to July. The other site literally confirms this. So does Jason Schrier that it was more of a coincidence than anything that the announcement was within 24 or so hours. The dates them selves were set a while back had nothing to do with the leak.
Last edited:
B_Boss
Member
Well it would be nice to even expect that damned game nextgen....but at least there's this:
"Fatality"
Last edited:
Dabaus
Banned
From my point of view it looks like sony is severely behind on the messaging war with microsoft. We're potentially looking at this lineup next week all showing next gen gameplay:
-Cyber punk,
-assassins creed,
-elden ring,
-ea games, probably fifa and and battlefield
and who knows what else.
All with xbox branded marketing. Probably all with smart delivery and maybe even some on gamespass day one.
I get it, sony can show a picture of a controller and generate 5 million likes. But you cant just let your opponent show all the biggest third party games and your response be radio silence. MS was succesful before, they can do it again. Look i get it, sony still has alot riding on the ps4, and xbox is hungry to put this generation behind them, but this radio silence stuff is an extremely bad strategy. Unless they have a few aces up their sleeve, and i mean gigantic head turned exclusives, im concerned for sony at the moment. After the direction of the last of us 2 ive lost confidence in the strength of their first party.
-Cyber punk,
-assassins creed,
-elden ring,
-ea games, probably fifa and and battlefield
and who knows what else.
All with xbox branded marketing. Probably all with smart delivery and maybe even some on gamespass day one.
I get it, sony can show a picture of a controller and generate 5 million likes. But you cant just let your opponent show all the biggest third party games and your response be radio silence. MS was succesful before, they can do it again. Look i get it, sony still has alot riding on the ps4, and xbox is hungry to put this generation behind them, but this radio silence stuff is an extremely bad strategy. Unless they have a few aces up their sleeve, and i mean gigantic head turned exclusives, im concerned for sony at the moment. After the direction of the last of us 2 ive lost confidence in the strength of their first party.
Last edited:
Gediminas
Banned
nop, try again.
you don't cancel all pre-orders and postpone the game indefinitely just to release a game after 3 weeks. that's not how it works. industry practice tens of times can prove that.
it is clear as day it was forced, if you don't see it, then you are blind or just don't get it how things works.
Last edited:
Papacheeks
Banned
I'm not going to give you a run-around. But you can go and believe what ever or whoever told you the bullshit about the leak, or you can believe someone with a immaculate track record like Jason Schrier. I believe him over you.
Gediminas
Banned
so you aren't getting how things works, that's fine. have a nice day.
Radical_3d
Member
How can Sony be so quiet? It's excruciating!
Great Hair
Banned
They´re too busy trying to shut down that leaker. And maybe it´s time to get back the old guard of ND and change their direction?
Papacheeks
Banned
i know how things work I've been here way longer than you have, and am on "other" sites. I know what has been exchanged and the leak, and the new release date have nothing to do with one another. The only thing that may is the announcement itself of the new dates being within same time as the leak.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I have to agree with this strongly. I hadn't gotten Days Gone at first because though it looked really cool to me, what I was reading about it gave me pause. Sounded like it was super buggy and maybe broken. I didn't pay attention to the reviews talking about how male-centric it was or how it was based on a "macho worldview" because frankly, I don't give a shit about that. Me caveman! Me shoot things and go BOOOM!
But it looked really cool so I ended up getting it probably 3 weeks to a month after release. Apparently they'd fixed the bugs by then because I had no issues. The game was, IMHO, much better than it had been reviewed. Sure, it's a certain type of story. Show me a game based on a (basically) zombie apocalypse with the modern world gone that's centered on "woke" principles and story line and I'll show you one LOUSY game that shouldn't have been made! lol. So I really liked it.
Look, I think there's room in games to tell all kinds of stories. When a game isn't centered on a specific character and type of character, I want and expect to be able to customize my character, make it male or female or look like whatever I want. If the game IS centered on a specific character and type, like say the Last of Us was....that's fine too. I'm not going to ding TLOU for having a white dude in it, and I wouldn't rip that game or a similar one for having any other race character as the center. That's all good. Same thing with other aspects that people deem "woke." When things are central to the story, all good and as I said, there's a LOT of room for storytelling in games.
What I DO object to, is when such things are shoveled into a game just "because it's time" or "because it's 2020 now." If there's not a reason central to the story, game or character, I don't care how many women the main character bangs. Likewise if the main character was gay or anything else. We're seeing this shoveling in a lot of movies right now. Instead of making a good strong balanced female character and making it about that, the movie creators make an unrealistic caricature of a woman and not only that, they have to make all the male characters useless just to show even more how awesome the female character is. (See: The Last Jedi as one good example of this). Also, isn't it insulting that to make a strong woman character they so often make the woman act MALE? She's twice as ass kicking and beer chugging as her male colleagues, just to show how strong she is. Can't a woman be strong without being "butch?" Same for men...can't men be sensitive, caring or idealistic without acting feminine? Now, of course there's a place for masculine women and feminine men as well, but it just seems that things are out of balance.
The other problem is making things "woke" by breaking the world lore and story. Dr. Who is a great example of this. Throughout the history of the show and books there were male and female TimeLords. It was even joked about that a gender transition in a regeneration would be a disaster...rumored to have happened but doubtless untrue. Then "Because it's time" they broke all that lore and made the new Doctor regenerate as a female. Wouldn't have bothered me if that had been a part of the show and story's lore, etc. but it wasn't. They shoehorned it in and then told everyone if they didn't like it, it was because you were a misogynist.
Anyway, enough of that. Bottom line I agree with games. There's lots of room to tell lots of stories and to keep characters diverse as well. Everyone should get to play at least some games as a character that resembles themselves or whatever image they so choose. I just think it's the wrong thing to do to try and force or shoehorn things into those stories in the name of being "woke." It doesn't feel legitimate and I think it is frankly insulting.
What a wonderful post, mate. Well, I agree with you "totally". I don't like a female protagonist like the protagonist in nier automata wearing things like a stripper when it makes no sense, even like Quiet in MGS5 but it's a Kojima thing, even Lara Croft didn't make sense with her being extremely skinny yet beating juggernauts in brawls. I can see Aloy in Horizon Zero Dawn and Kassandra in Assassin's Creed Odyssey to be the most balanced female protagonists out there. Even Ellie on TLOU2 is a great, believable protagonist yet the story need to be experienced.
My problem with Days Gone that Deacon was just perfect, to have silly critiques about his color and ethnicity makes my head spin.
Even Spider-man was handled in a good manner making him smarter and agile against big brutes for example, which I would like devs to respect their audience in general and their minds instead of useless shit, like in a movie when some victims escaping a villain driving a car/truck yet they keep running on the street with too much space to run sideways to avoid the danger
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Last edited:
Snowdonhoffen
Member
PaintTinJr
Member
When people use the term drawcalls about this stuff, I think there is confusion because they could be meaning two slightly different things.
On the GPU-side a drawcall is an in-flight instruction to process geometry by the graphics pipelines - so an early Geometry engine cull at this point means the GPU doesn't do the work because it was redundant work, but the CPU still asked for work to be done with a 'drawcall that was sent to the GPU from the CPU., Culling drawcalls at the CPU level is done by not placing the drawcall in the list of work to send to the GPU, and that software solution hasn't really changed over the recent years because it is conservatively calculated using software BVH algorithm/s.
Papacheeks
Banned
I found this screenshot of AC Valhalla, it still looks as good as Odyssey, but not next gen good sadly
Source
I agree. Thats cross-gen for you. I mean image quality will be much better on next gen and loading screens will be short. But looking at it, I see nothing that says next gen development from ground up. I guess open world area's need to be seen. But even that boat screeshot looked ok, not amazing.
Radical_3d
Member
Inter-generational graphics are going to be the Achilles heel of the SX. That screenshot is hardly exciting. Sony always have it too easy with the competition.
B_Boss
Member
Wait till the microscope is used. I think you guys have too much built up expectation when many of us here in this very awesome thread have been saying that the graphical leap from current to nextgen will not be that huge or significant unless it's examined under the microscope say by DF or interested parties.
I do believe that, while the graphics aren't (as I love to say) "from NES to SNES/GENESIS" (I could be wrong?), we will instantly recognize that faster loading as well as improved and/or consistent framerates, elements of that nature.
splattered
Member
The game is going to look the exact same on the ps5.
Too soon to try and claim ps5 character models are going to look any better than the best SX character models,
Radical_3d
Member
Of course. But PS5 has next-gen-only games, and the SX doesn't.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
I think we will have 2 situations when it comes to cross gen games, one will be that both versions will look almost the same but the next gen machines will perform way better than the old gen amd the obvious resolution bump and the second one... well, we will have a Black Ops 3 situation again:
PaintTinJr
Member
That is a really good question.
The traditional, throw everything into the BVH at full RT LoD and intersect test, can't utilise those benefits. And without full RT LoD scene statistics – gained from rendering that way - it seems difficult to know how to build an optimised acceleration structure that doesn't unduly reduce LoD on surfaces causing normals to change, resulting in the path of the path-tracing rays to change or reflect a model that indirectly occupies a large area in the scene closeup, yet was given a LoD level of a distant object..
Culling and using mesh transitioning LoD to build a BVH under those conditions suitable for RT certainly seems to need a different approach.
EventHorizon
's idea of hinting to the renderer that some surfaces can't be culled sounds like a good start. If this was a problem I was looking at I would look to start every frame workload with a low resolution (160x90) render of the scene at LoD level 1 to collect statistics of how much each box-bound model face contributed to the final image by area(count of pixels influenced), illumination(% of light contribution to scene) and the shortest ray distance that contributed and avg ray distance that contributed from the bound-box model face. With the low resolution statics about each model face, it should then be possible to conservatively mesh-shade the models from the camera and the majority of bounced ray's POV to construct an optimised BVH per frame for RT.
Shmunter
Member
But if the culling is done by the CU, then the draw call has already been made to the GPU. I think the point is to cull prior to making the draw call.
alabtrosMyster
Member
Those were the days!that's how m$ rolls. nothing newi still remember E3, when they said that it is running on xbox.. until "xbox" crashed to Windows window
p.s. i checked your link later time after my comment
They decided to settle it, now everything and their dog is xbox.
Metroiddarks
Member
Even if we check the graphics of AC IV PS4 vs Xbox 360 looks ridiculous similar basically was the HIgh settings of PC in new gen console.I think we will have 2 situations when it comes to cross gen games, one will be that both versions will look almost the same but the next gen machines will perform way better than the old gen amd the obvious resolution bump and the second one... well, we will have a Black Ops 3 situation again:
Then came AC Unity
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
All will be forgiven if what they show is high quality. I also loved the PS4 rollout, as it felt more "confident", but that may not mean anything. They are in the lead with PS globally, with a better first party. Maybe they think it's better to keep everyone in suspense, let the devs continue to refine their games, and then have a massive unveil.
Early June makes sense. It's around when E3 would traditionally be held, and it coincides with PS5 assembly.
TLZ
Banned
You keep forgetting the covid situation we're in how it affected a lot of businesses and plans. Just keep that in mind. This is in addition to MS and Sony's different approaches.
Metroiddarks
Member
That is not a similar approach which follows the crytek engine for RT ? Basically use that LoD level 1 for small objects or those which they know the user is not going to pay attention to its reflection.Culling and using mesh transitioning LoD to build a BVH under those conditions suitable for RT certainly seems to need a different approach.
Last edited:
alabtrosMyster
Member
No, they'll show a revised logo.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
I'm based in Oregon/Washington and Deacon is spot on for a biker from the area. The character fits.What a wonderful post, mate. Well, I agree with you "totally". I don't like a female protagonist like the protagonist in nier automata wearing things like a stripper when it makes no sense, even like Quiet in MGS5 but it's a Kojima thing, even Lara Croft didn't make since with her being extremely skinny yet beating juggernauts in brawls. I can see Aloy in Horizon Zero Dawn and Kassandra in Assassin's Creed Odyssey to be the most balanced female protagonists out there. Even Ellie on TLOU2 is a great, believable protagonist yet the story need to be experienced.
My problem with Days Gone that the Deacon was just perfect, to have silly critiques about his color and ethnicity makes my head spin.
Even Spider-man was handled in a good manner making him smarter and agile against big brutes for example, which I would like devs to respect their audience in general and their mind instead of useless shit, like in a movie when some victims escaping a villain driving car yet the keep running on the street with too much space to run sideways to avoid the danger
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
aclar00
Member
I wouldnt mind seeing eithsr, but id imagine neither would be released until 2022
Shmunter
Member
Massive divide between John and Alex on what SSD brings to the table. John is approaching it with common sense - memory is the lifeblood of the virtual worlds created, and access has been increased significantly next gen. Alex seems to hand wave it away in his views without much grounding. DF should make a grudge match video. 1M views guaranteed.
Last edited:
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Alex is not a game developer
he's a PC graphics card enthusiast that seems to downplay any advantages or customizations consoles could have over PCs
alabtrosMyster
Member
I don't see how that could happen, they made more money with the new guard as far as I know (Uncharted 3, TLoU, Uncharted 4... all sold extremely well)
They´re too busy trying to shut down that leaker. And maybe it´s time to get back the old guard of ND and change their direction?
Metroiddarks
Member
I heard all the podcast and was basically two people asking John how Xbox will defeat Playstation because is almost impossible that not happens and he was
yeah but we don't know what games PS5 will have so I cannot answer that.
Also when both try to talk the XSX was more powerfull John just said Sony only until this generation has the most powerful console (PS4).
Andodalf
Banned
I found this screenshot of AC Valhalla, it still looks as good as Odyssey, but not next gen good sadly
Source
Looking at the HQ Gamersyde version Is a bit more impressive, the individual hairs on the guy on the right's forearms look much more resolved in the high res (I'd recommend checking out the file at full res), you can even see how there's a slight shadow cast by his own veins onto his arm. Still not a drastic leap forward, but some improvements can be seen.
Last edited:
FeiRR
Banned
RiSA
Neo Member
No, preculling is about saving resource on deferred vertex attribute calculations, all of these happen after a frame has been committed to the GPU (aka
Draw()).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think the problem is that ps5 has lower ram bandwidth. So even if they can fill up that ram really fast they will be bottlenecked by the ram bandwidth.
If the ps5 had more ram or something insanely fast like hbm, It could have made a huge difference when paired up with the ssd. Right now though, their bandwidth budget is basically the same as the series x's if not lower. Which means the assets being loaded into the 13-14 gb of ram will basically be the same across both systems. Which in turn means you can't have more detailed character models or more detailed areas compared to the series x versions of the game like it's been speculated.
Where this fast load and unload of ram will come into play is likely going to be in first party games that will design the game around this 1 second flush and filling of ram. Other than that, I'm not sure if third party devs would design a game around an ssd that's 2x faster.
- Status