bitbydeath
Member
I guess this image was real afterall.
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Radical_3d
Member
FeiRR
Banned
Cool? That's a terrible way to spend money which could be used elsewhere. I'm totally against timed exclusives bought from third-parties. If you want an exclusive game for your format, develop it specifically for it. There's no benefit for me as a gamer with such policy.
Do you know that debt is also a form of capital? In todays economy debt is cheaper than having equity. You can get debt in form of credits basically for free or with a really low interest rate. The debt-equity ratio is important. Second: We don´t know in which country Microsofts equity is stored. For example their equity is stored outside of the US and they want to invest like $50 mil within the US, they have to bring either the $50 mil back to the US and have to pay 20-30% tax on that money or they just lend the money wihin the US with a interest rate of ~0-2%. So what would you do? Of course you would chose the debt which is really cheap and you can keep your equity.
And yes, this is how every company is doing that (yes, even Sony) and if I would be a shareholder I want them to do it the cheapest way!
Oh and btw Microsoft has a debt of $70 billion
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Vae_Victis
Banned
If the issue with all the info is for sale on 2 June, then there won't be an "E3-like" Sony event on 2 June as well as earlier suggested, otherwise they would spoiler their whole line-up 24 hours before the fact.
So either Sony is announcing games in the second half of May, giving out more info through the magazine and then presenting the console and its functionalities specifically with an event on 2 June, or the whole event will in fact take place before 2 June.
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SSfox
Member
About this SSD stuff, it make me think about RDR2, the game is known to be slow, and i think i've a clue on why it was design that way, probably helped to have many impressive things in the game specially in the visual aspect.
Example, one of the thing that looks impressive in RDR2 first time you see it, and it's something no other game has something similar, is when you kill the animal and carve up that animal it looks quite impressive, the meat looks realistic and all (a bit gore but not the point lol), and that's kind of a streaming tech i guess, i think reason why the animation of the carve up are slow is to give time for the game to load the inside texture of the animal, for me it looks like a tech on which the hard drive have an important role, now imagine something similar in a much bigger scale with SSD.
Most common thing people think about is the possibility of loading the map and its object, and being mostly able to have very various and different of all king of stuffs, objects, pnjs, cars/horses ect. But this is most basic idea you can think and it's already seems impressive when you think about it. Now you can imagine different scenarios, like for example you're in a world when it will start raining, the pngs will do all kind of different stuffs, like take their umbrella, where their jacket that are take from their bag ect, we've too much focus on graphics and level of details of textures since a while, those are super important for sure, but i think the aspect where next gen will impress the most in those kind of details i named above on which SSD will play a role.
Now the question is are we gonna see those kind stuff early in the next gen? We'll see but i think some of the first Sony exclusive will highly this kind of SSD's next gen power.
Example, one of the thing that looks impressive in RDR2 first time you see it, and it's something no other game has something similar, is when you kill the animal and carve up that animal it looks quite impressive, the meat looks realistic and all (a bit gore but not the point lol), and that's kind of a streaming tech i guess, i think reason why the animation of the carve up are slow is to give time for the game to load the inside texture of the animal, for me it looks like a tech on which the hard drive have an important role, now imagine something similar in a much bigger scale with SSD.
Most common thing people think about is the possibility of loading the map and its object, and being mostly able to have very various and different of all king of stuffs, objects, pnjs, cars/horses ect. But this is most basic idea you can think and it's already seems impressive when you think about it. Now you can imagine different scenarios, like for example you're in a world when it will start raining, the pngs will do all kind of different stuffs, like take their umbrella, where their jacket that are take from their bag ect, we've too much focus on graphics and level of details of textures since a while, those are super important for sure, but i think the aspect where next gen will impress the most in those kind of details i named above on which SSD will play a role.
Now the question is are we gonna see those kind stuff early in the next gen? We'll see but i think some of the first Sony exclusive will highly this kind of SSD's next gen power.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
On the other hand magazines often overhype the content they have and they know they can milk two months out of PS5 news. Risky, but doable.
pasterpl
Member
Here are the 10 companies with the most cash on hand
Several companies, including Microsoft, Berkshire Hathaway, Alphabet and Apple are sitting on more than $100 billion dollars of cash, which is leading some on Wall Street to question why America's largest companies aren't spending.
and about debt with big companies
When Is Debt Good?
Many companies tend to carry more debt than equity, but Google is different. Today, Google has no debt. But is that good or bad? Just recently I (Joe) was facilitating a session with employees from a small business that had been acquired by a larger public company. The small business did not...
hbr.org
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Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
You see it as incompetent, I see it as pro-consumer.
Agnostic2020
Member
Or shows how much fund ms budgets to xbox division? MS has ton of cash not xbox .
pasterpl
Member
thats extremely impressive when you consider it is done by 1 guy
lol...and what is gamepass? It is Great Value for customers, in addition, I am sure that they are trying to spread the risk (acquiring mix of Big, medium and small studios and setting up new ones) and invest in areas that could result in best returns for their investors. Need to remember that ms is not only a gaming company, but they have Substantial cash reserves to put into some of their long term projects (Xbox, xCloud, gamepass etc.).
bhunachicken
Member
Who the actual hell are Berkshire Hathaway?!!!
(Googles)
Flipping heck, I've never even heard of this firm..! Seems they have a finger in every pie going.
(Googles)
Flipping heck, I've never even heard of this firm..! Seems they have a finger in every pie going.
I don't like the idea but was just stating the fact that it would be cool if Sony had that advantage. It's unrealistic though.
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Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
You probably heard of Warren Buffet, he's their CEO
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Let me get this straight:
You see it as pro consumer to NOT have Next-Gen-Only titles at launch?
saintjules
Member
C'mon June!
Oké I have tried this three times now and we're not going anywhere with this so let's just drop it.
We're using different definitions for steaming and fixed RAM pools and as long as we do, we will never understand each otherMaybe take a bit longer to read my posts instead of going into "type-mode" haha. For example, in my last post I clearly say PS5 has more fast RAM (full 16GB on fast bus) compared to XsX (10GB on fast bus) but you are responding about total RAM, ignoring my point.
Every technical analysis I've heard or read has given the XSX the overall RAM advantage(Adored TV, DF) due to the 560GB/s memory bandwidth for the 10GB. The advantage with the PS5 seems to be that devs won't have to think about where they have to place assets in RAM.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think OPM themselves sort of confirmed it was real shortly after Tidux posted it but I don't expect much from it given their form. So they'll just say COD will do/have this and FIFA will do this cool new thing etc. Also with the current coronavirus situation I believe there are no print copies being done or being done later so no subscribers getting a copy a week before the June 2nd like normal.
In any case Edge will have an in-depth feature on a next-gen game/studio in the next issue and the digital version (no print copy either) of that comes out May 21st. That will possibly be more interesting.
How/if any of this relates to when Sony finally decide to pull the trigger is anyone's guess.....
Gediminas
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
SgtCaffran said:Oké I have tried this three times now and we're not going anywhere with this so let's just drop it.
We're using different definitions for steaming and fixed RAM pools and as long as we do, we will never understand each other
It is a good 'ol console compromise. They wanted/needed 560GB/s to feed their 12TF/52CUs but couldn't do it with a straight/simple 384-bit bus due to signal integrity issues:
Andrew Goossen said:
At the end of the day both consoles will have various compromises and no matter how "premium" gamers think they are won't change the fact they are built to a cost to be made in the 10's of millions.
marvifrom
Member
This thread is now:
Theres a lot of repetition by now, prices have been discussed many times, project awakening has been mentioned several times ( hoping its still alive and actually releasing 'soon' ), we are all ungry for that info blowout of sony and ms first party show off.
I just hope all this ssd stuff will also enable new gameplay mechanics, new ideas and visuals.
Personally I'm even more interested if and how new VR Tech will be promoted, released alongside with those consoles. I'd love MS to support VR on XSX. Even if its just for the sake of spreading VR support and making it more attractive to consumers and developers.
I am curious if Sonys plans to transition their installbase faster to PS5 will include upgrades to PS4 Exclusive games that will have new content (not only visually) if played on PS5.
My guess is that Final Fantasy Remakes next Episode will be PS5 only. ( otherwise I can't imagine how they want to enable worldmap travel on PS4 )
I could imagine some PS5 exclusive dlcs for Spiderman, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima and so on as incentive to upgrade to PS5. (Maybe even for free?)
Man my head is really going wild here.
Guess I'm in for many disappointments by now.
[/QUOTE
pasterpl
Member
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Didnt MS say for the 1 to 2 years into the xsx life cycle there wont be any first party xsx exclusives and instead just be xbox console exclusives as they will be on xb1,xb1x,xsx and PC
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
I think you misunterstand what we are talking about.
I just asked something hypothetical.
This wasn't me stating/thinking/believing there won't any Next-Gen-Exclusives.
X-Fighter implied that Next-Gen-Only title would be anti-consumer...
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Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Giving people that buy an Xbox One X now the possibility to play these titles, yes. I call that pro consumer. Some people think that those older consoles are holding back the new systems, but they have no proof for this at all. In July once we've seen the first party line up of Sony and Microsoft then you can claim that older systems are holding back current gen, but only if the exclusive games on PS5 will be much better than on the XSX. As long as that is not the case, you can't say anything substantial, and are just guessing. So yeah, giving more people the ability to play their games is pro consumer at the moment.
I understand your point, you think those games will look and play like shit, and don't give us something new we expect from next-gen, but we don't know this yet. Because the other way to look at it is that Sony is just trying to push you to buy the new PS5, even though they could've just released those games on PS4 too. Also in that case, we don't know yet we'll have to wait for the games.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Lmao
You're seriously going to try and argue that current gen won't hold next gen back?
I mean, I suppose they might not hold the console back if the only exclusives they're going to bring out within the 1st one or two years is low budget trash like State of Decay or Honey I shrunk the Kids.
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Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah that's pretty much the case for PC gaming since forever, and that's still the best looking system to play on. But since it's so laughable give proper examples on how and why they would be held back, feel free to educate me. Because these systems are basically customised PC's with similar architectures and devs have always been able to develop for minimum requirements as well as max out the game visually.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
If publishers and developers didn't have to consider low/mid-range PC and more importantly, consoles, and could just thrive of high-end PCs, the games would not look like they do today.
There's a lot more to the advancements of games than just having scalable graphics, because that's the only difference between high end and low-end PCs. I shouldn't need to tell you something that obvious. Especially when everyone more knowledgeable than you is saying the exact same thing
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Gediminas
Banned
we are talking about CONSOLE not PC. console is console and PC is PC and even than this does not apply to PC.
pretty much whole console history can say opposite what you are saying here.
this your comment at best is a joke and laughable, and delusional at worst.
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Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Alright, so last generation. Which game at launch was completely not possible on previous console? Because you keep making these claims but then at least give some examples. You will basically need exclusive PS5 games that look and play better than Halo Infinite and the next Forza at launch, to proof your point. Pretty sure that's not going to happen, but I'm willing to wait. We'll probably already know more in July.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I don't think there are many games on the PS4 at all aside from the really demanding ones that can't be run on a PS3, albeit at really poor performance
And that's because of how weak an advancement it was. That's not the case this gen, so your point is pretty much moot.
Everyone is telling you you're wrong. So why aren't you listing to them?
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TLZ
Banned
Barakov
Member
ethomaz
Banned
Linkdln?
It was an Japanese interview.
The directly said they are not supplying PS5 too.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
The goal posts keep moving. Now it's not about games that wouldn't have possibly looked as good, it's about games that wouldn't be possible.... not only that, games that wouldn't be possible AT LAUNCH 
Yet a XSX console exclusive developer (MEDIUM) is talking about how its game wouldn't be possible on current gen. But keep moving those goal posts, might as well move them to another planet.
Yet a XSX console exclusive developer (MEDIUM) is talking about how its game wouldn't be possible on current gen. But keep moving those goal posts, might as well move them to another planet.
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MasterCornholio
Member
So maybe an SSD caddy that contains the heatsink for cooling. That sounds like a really good way to do it for me.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I agree that there weren't that many demanding games at the start of last gen, but I don't really agree with your view that advancement was weak. From PS3 to PS4, was a 8x improvement when it came to teraflops for example. Now it's less from PS4 to PS5. There is a HUGE difference on SSD though, but we still have to see those capabilities come to fruition.
The people that are telling me I'm wrong, don't even take the time to properly explain why. So why would I listen to them? I don't have any issues with being shown that I'm wrong, but at least give me an actual explanation. Game development is scaleable, so unless there is a feature that just isn't scaleable then you are correct, but at the moment I don't see one. So I don't really see an issue with Microsoft going cross-gen for 1 year.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
I've got some thoughts, remember Microsoft visiting Poland some time ago? I'm starting to think it was to make an exclusivity deal with Bloober Team for The Medium. And if that was the case, it will probably be exactly the same situation as it was with the Blair Witch game. It will be marketed as an Xbox exclusive and release just on the Xbox ecosystem and will be day one on Game Pass, but some months later will be released on PS5.
I wanted to bring that up because of this article, which doesn't say anything about The Medium coming to PS5 but the thought crossed my mind while reading it:
gamingbolt.com
I wanted to bring that up because of this article, which doesn't say anything about The Medium coming to PS5 but the thought crossed my mind while reading it:
PS5 DualSense’s Haptic Feedback Will Allow To Create Even More Suspenseful Experiences, Says Dev
Bloober Team wants to use the controller's features
FeiRR
Banned
Speak for yourself. Not everyone is interested in a rental service full of indie to AA titles with a sprinkle of MS exclusives. I mean, it's fine for a dollar a month but when their promo ends, and it's inevitable it will end one day, a lot of those 10 million 1-dollar customers will cancel their subs. What will happen to the Xbox division then?
They should've started acquiring those studios 3-4 years ago. What the hell were they thinking? "Let's make new hardware and we'll think about software later?" If they hadn't said that themselves, I'd have thought that launching a console without exclusives is a story from someone's ass because no platform holder would do that. But here we are...
He's just parroting what he was told to think.
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TBiddy
Member
They didn't. There was a lot of speculation and rumours that Phison was supplying the controller, based on a previous employee stating at his Linkedin, that he worked on a controller which was installed in "Xbox Scarlet":
There is no official confirmation, whatsoever. Phison does not want to breach their NDA, if they are indeed supplying.
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Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Read those 1886 pages. Enough Information there.
Not interested? Well neither are we explaining everthing yet again.
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geordiemp
Member
Yes its better, but not by much, 480 vs 400 for the GPU (assuming 48 for the non GPU stuff) as the non GPU access will be slower on XSX, so per TF they are about the same (40 per TF) whatever that means lol
geordiemp
Member
I do, Jaguar is a crap CPU, Zen2 will be minimum 8 x more powerful.
Number of enemies, density, animations, Physics. Tired of the same old 5 enemies spawn and attack with same animations ? Have you never noticed. Ps5 / XSX that is all gone if true next gen, who cares about zooming in on the blade of grass shadow in the distance.
We want > 1440p60 reconstructed to 4K, but much better enemies and enimations and density. Last gen please die now.
Whats different about his gen ?
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Thirty7ven
Banned
It's not gonna be just one year either unless they sell a whole lot of Xbox. Gamepass strategy demands a lot of subscribers.
Did you miss the 5:20 part about how many FPS they simulated with this technique? It's fast for CGI applications but still years away from any reasonable realtime simulations.
Shmunter
Member
Yep. 9 zen2 cores equivalent for I/o on PS5 to push that ssd data into ram and apply decompression. All this is done by the cpu on the pc today, I'm still trying to contemplate what this all means for pc.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Let's not forget not only will Halo have to work on Xbox One, the multiplayer will be cross gen.... if that's not a bottleneck I don't know what is. On the the positive side it's high chance Halo will be able to run at 120fps in multiplayer on the XSX. For those who have the TV for it...
Decompression could be done on the GPU, but that also means that you will need a much faster GPU in comparison.
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