THE:MILKMAN
Member
So Apple not using EUV.....
As for the CPU, I would say gimp is too strong a word but we aren't getting a full fat desktop CPU 65W part in the APU. It will still be a massive improvement regardless.
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So Apple not using EUV.....
As for the CPU, I would say gimp is too strong a word but we aren't getting a full fat desktop CPU 65W part in the APU. It will still be a massive improvement regardless.
SonGoku
Member
Huawei is
Disingenuous statement, power consumption is related to frequency and voltage not sillicon
Zen2 CCD is already tiny (comparable to jaguar on 28mm2), it would be a disappointment for sure if they gimp it to save 20mm2.
At least Scarlet is confirmed to be using the full fat ZEN2 CCD going by MS's 4 times the XBONEX CPU claim.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think both consoles will have the same Zen2 cores setup.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
SonGoku
Member
ResilientBanana
Member
Right.
TeamGhobad
Banned
So a nextgen CU with the same clock and membandwidth is abt 35-60% more powerful than a current gen CU.
Taking into account the faster mem and clocks and yes we do have a beast on our hands.
ResilientBanana
Member
Are people actually understanding why 9-10TF would be just fine? It's like 2 x the GPU in the X, and the CPU is 4 x.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
it would be fine, but we want MOAR!!! also it has RT on top of that. so that should free up some processing power as well. Using RT for global illum.
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Negotiator
Banned
GCN 1.1 CUs were more efficient than RSX discrete pipelines and yet, nobody brought it up back in 2012.
I mean, imagine if we had gotten a 1TF GCN GPU on PS4 instead of 1.84TF. Wouldn't it still be a lot faster and efficient than RSX (192GF)?
All in all, I don't understand why efficiency suddenly became a talking point for the next-gen transition this time around. I take it for granted every single time, but maybe that's just me.
TeamGhobad
Banned
just for fun
Fake
Member
Will be fine now... I mean, after TF on Navi not the same as previous ..
SonGoku
Member
10 TF would be alright
Greatness begins at 11TF
Negotiator
Banned
7nm is basically confirmed, we just don't know the details (DUV or EUV). 2 GHz might be a hint though...
TBH, I think the nanometer scale is marketing/PR BS these days. What matters is the actual density (how many transistors fit in 1 mm2 of space).
Negotiator
Banned
Apple's New A13 Bionic CPU to Power iPhone 11 with Longer Battery Life, Higher Speeds
Apple introduced the new A13 Bionic chip alongside the iPhone 11, iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max.
"These optimizations could be partly attributed to Apple reportedly having TSMC make the A13 Bionic with its second-generation 7nm process, which is its first to use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography. That switch to a new process resulted in a greater transistor count, and the increased density would lead to higher performance, as well as changes to the chip's power requirements"
Apparently Apple will use 5nm next year. Mobile SoCs are even more bleeding edge than console APUs.
Imtjnotu
Member
Well they are no where near as big or as powerful. Bigger wafers are the issue. The a13 might be now pushing 2013 graphics not 2020Apple's New A13 Bionic CPU to Power iPhone 11 with Longer Battery Life, Higher Speeds
Apple introduced the new A13 Bionic chip alongside the iPhone 11, iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max.www.tomshardware.com
"These optimizations could be partly attributed to Apple reportedly having TSMC make the A13 Bionic with its second-generation 7nm process, which is its first to use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography. That switch to a new process resulted in a greater transistor count, and the increased density would lead to higher performance, as well as changes to the chip's power requirements"
Apparently Apple will use 5nm next year. Mobile SoCs are even more bleeding edge than console APUs.
Darius87
Member
There's more to RDNA then just clocks and memory bandwidth like: wavefront32, dual CU's, new L1 cache, async compute tunneling, and add sony custom features on top of that.
Dr.D00p
Member
Don't know about the rest of the specs you've speculated but these consoles will not come with a convential PC type SSD.
They will have a custom, ultra high speed, but relatively low capacity (upto 64GB??) type cache that will allow data for the current game level that is being played to be stored and retrieved at speeds that will allow Sony & Microsofts claims of virtually no loading times to be realised.
Even the fastest PC NVMe SSD drive doesn't allow for that kind of speed. Only memory based cache storage does.
SonGoku
Member
It will be the only drive, so 1TB most likely
bhunachicken
Member
This would make sense so that a user could upgrade the storage without needing to buy something propriety and expensive. In effect, it'd be an SSHD solution. It also means that one would only be able to appreciate all the speed benefits by sticking to one title at a time, so that the cached data isn't evicted constantly.
Dr.D00p
Member
Not really, for arguments sake lets say it does come with 64GB of cache type storage, and the consoles themselves come with 16GB-24GB of RAM, that would mean when playing your game, the cache storage would only ever need to hold the required few GB's worth of level data at a time whilst playing. So you could potentially hold data from multiple titles in the cache at a time.
Negotiator
Banned
64GB (a single chip) of NAND storage is not going to give you 4GB/s transfer rates. You need an array of multiple NAND chips to get those speeds.
There's no other way to saturate the ultra-fast PCIe 4.0 bus, otherwise what's the point of putting PCIe 4.0 on consoles? Judging by X570, PCIe 4.0 has a TDP cost that requires active cooling.
Cerny promised instant loading times with the Spiderman demo, not caching. It's all about reducing friction, and thus increasing user engagement.
There's no other way to saturate the ultra-fast PCIe 4.0 bus, otherwise what's the point of putting PCIe 4.0 on consoles? Judging by X570, PCIe 4.0 has a TDP cost that requires active cooling.
Cerny promised instant loading times with the Spiderman demo, not caching. It's all about reducing friction, and thus increasing user engagement.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
Apple's New A13 Bionic CPU to Power iPhone 11 with Longer Battery Life, Higher Speeds
Apple introduced the new A13 Bionic chip alongside the iPhone 11, iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max.
"These optimizations could be partly attributed to Apple reportedly having TSMC make the A13 Bionic with its second-generation 7nm process, which is its first to use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography. That switch to a new process resulted in a greater transistor count, and the increased density would lead to higher performance, as well as changes to the chip's power requirements"
Apparently Apple will use 5nm next year. Mobile SoCs are even more bleeding edge than console APUs.
SonGoku stated Apple were using 7NP. I assumed it was confirmed. I take it back.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
So have to ask if there is anything to read into this (which I doubt).
A few days ago Phil Spencer said they just got their first game running on Scarlett and Mike Ybarra (sp?) confirmed this on Major Nelson radio yesterday.
It seems odd to me they just now got a game running on this when we have had devs confirm PS5 devkits unless they dont have games running on them either I suppose.
Yeah I am just that bored and wanting info where are our damn leaks??
A few days ago Phil Spencer said they just got their first game running on Scarlett and Mike Ybarra (sp?) confirmed this on Major Nelson radio yesterday.
It seems odd to me they just now got a game running on this when we have had devs confirm PS5 devkits unless they dont have games running on them either I suppose.
Yeah I am just that bored and wanting info where are our damn leaks??
NickFire
Member
I could be wrong, but my hunch is most games are not developed on the dev kits until they get pretty far into the process. I believe this because it sounds logical to me that you start with broad stuff and then move the development to more discrete platforms, to avoid duplicating work. I know MS is not a 3rd party releasing on multiple consoles, but PC is still a platform too.
beat loose
Neo Member
PS5 Pro to launch alongside the standard model,
gaming & tech journalst Zenji Nishikawa says
gaming & tech journalst Zenji Nishikawa says
DemonCleaner
Member
i have a real hard time believing that after even MS burried this stupid idea. there might be two variants with different harddrive sizes and such... maybe he just interpretated the info the wrong way.
bitbydeath
Member
Just another fake rumour.
FranXico
Member
That's just unsupported speculation.
The main motivation behind the PS4 Pro were simple manufacturing economics. AMD presented Sony with the possibility for a very reasonably priced GPU upgrade, and Sony figured out how to market it from there.
Launching a PS5 Pro alongside the base model would defeat those purposes.
TLZ
Banned
Who's this guy?
beat loose
Neo Member
Negotiator
Banned
Actually Sony had it planned from the get-go, long before the OG PS4 launch:
Sony takes a radically different approach to the PS4 lifecycle
Even before the Playstation 4 is out there are credible rumors about it’s replacement that suggest Sony is going down a radically different path this time.
semiaccurate.com
Digital Foundry - In Theory: Could Sony release PlayStation 5 in 2018?
I think PS5 will be out in 2019, enough time after Pro and not a massive amount of time after Scorpio. 8 Core 3.0GHz Ryzen based CPU. 8-10 Tflop GPU. 16GB GDDR5 RAM. 2TB HDD. No over the top specs, just a decent upgrade over PS4 and enough of an upgrade over Scorpio but without bumping the...
西川善司，PS4にまつわる6つの疑問に答えるそぶりをしてみる〜PS4はPS4.1，PS4.2と進化する!?
PlayStation 4が発表され，そのスペックやSCEの戦略らしきものが少しずつ見えてきた。そして，読者の中にはいくつか疑問が出てきた人もいるのではないかと思うが，それらに西川善司氏が回答を試みる。「PS4.1」がそう遠くない（！）という大胆予測もあるので，PS4についてアタマの中を整理したい人はぜひチェックしてもらえれば幸いだ。
www.4gamer.net
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SonGoku
Member
yeah my bad, i was going off old news
TSMC will use updated 'N7 Pro' 7-nanometer process for 'A13' chip manufacturing | AppleInsider
Apple's "A13" processor will use a 7-nanometer process for its production, but chip foundry TSMC is reportedly planning to use a different enhanced process to the current version it has come up with, named "N7 Pro."
appleinsider.com
Apple A13 Chip To Reportedly Use TSMC’s ‘Advanced’ 7nm N7 Pro Architecture
While TSMC is expected to use its 7nm EUV process this year, the Apple A13 SoC might be produced under the 7nm N7 Pro architecture
wccftech.com
sonomamashine
Member
Bad news folks, i doesn't look like we will get RDNA2 for next gen.
Negotiator
Banned
The PS5 APU is also "In Design", there are 4 months left for the final chip tape-out.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm curious. How do you figure there are 4 months left to tape-out?
sonomamashine
Member
it doesn't work like that, if they gonna put RDNA2 it means next gen is due late 2020 at best.
Negotiator
Banned
The final PS4 APU (SoC-based devkit) became available no earlier than January 2013.
It does. Sony has access to RDNA2 tech.
How else do they plan to implement hardware-based RT?
McHuj
Member
It's a minimum of 3-4 months from tapeout to when chips arrive back at the fab.
Likely final production silicon is taping out in Q4 and will arrive for final devkits and console production in 2020 Q. This would. give them 3-5 months to build up volumes for a decent size launch.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I don't believe a design goes straight from design complete/tape-out to being mass produced for dev kits or a product. There are 12+ months of verification and respins at least?
Example: Zen 2 was "design complete" in January 2018 according to AMD but didn't go on sale until July 2019.
SonGoku
Member
wachu mean homie? Nothing new on this slideBad news folks, i doesn't look like we will get RDNA2 for next gen.
2021 is vague, could be late 2020 and nothing stops consoles chips for being ahead of retail chips
sonomamashine
Member
They have an early sample and ... still in design wich means not completed, then production, for example AMD CPU 7nm+ is complete
expect mid 2020, RDNA2 late 2020 early 2021 release, we wont see a next gen release untill E3 or later.
joe_zazen
Member
It is 18 months minimum for phones from final tape out to store shelves, and console dev is way slower than phone dev because way more money goes into phone chip dev. So the designs have to be done by now 100%. Whether they are in dev kits, idk.
And if it is a may launch they would have been done since end of 2018, which is what i am hoping because i am really tired of this gen.
And if it is a may launch they would have been done since end of 2018, which is what i am hoping because i am really tired of this gen.
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