Horsemama1956
Member
Two words.. Radeon techology
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FrostyJ93
Member
Pretty much this. You guys need to chill out.
bitbydeath
Member
Little Chicken
Member
People seem pretty pissed at console hardware parity huh
FrostyJ93
Member
And if you even breath the idea of TF count being below 10 they freak out.
Thats when you know people take this shit too seriously.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I think matt booty could do a good job, he's got a ton of experience and has done a good job at xbox.
TLZ
Banned
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TeamGhobad
Banned
he's too corporate
Negotiator
Banned
As long as we get 2 beasts, parity is good. Let them fight for games and services!
D
Deleted member 740922
Unconfirmed Member
Interesting post:
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air OT
No. It's not quite like CGI, but it way better than current stuff. I so hope that it shows up in a reveal so you can see it.www.resetera.com
It kinda reinforces my theory that both consoles will have a common APU (~400mm2) designed by Sony/MS & AMD. The only difference will be clocks/cooling system and the software stack (OS, UI, APIs, exclusives, services).
Azure-cloud based consoles might even be dual-boot (FreeBSD/PS5, Windows/XB2) for all I know.
I can't wait to see the meltdowns if this is true...
Did you miss the CurryPanda post? It was a conversation posted by komachi and included this info...
Arden = XBox = 350mm
Oberon = PS5 = 300mm
As I understand those are not exact numbers but those are the size categories for each chip.
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Negotiator
Banned
The smaller one may have been canned for many reasons (PS5 APU for a late 2019 launch or a Lockhart APU).
Strangely enough, Sony refuses to share a PCB shot.
1. Its not 300mm², rumor was 316mm²
2. Scarlett is not 390mm², it should be around 350mm².
316mm² can still end up very close to 350mm² just by using narrower bus (which PS5 does use) and faster memory to achieve similar BW.
So just difference between 320 bit bus and 256 bit bus would be around 16-20mm².
2. Scarlett is not 390mm², it should be around 350mm².
316mm² can still end up very close to 350mm² just by using narrower bus (which PS5 does use) and faster memory to achieve similar BW.
So just difference between 320 bit bus and 256 bit bus would be around 16-20mm².
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Insane Metal
Member
Nice, console wars will now be fought for those mm².
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Just my 2 cents: the clocks from Gonzalo/Flute/Oberon come hand and hand with the "20K+" Fire Strike score. The baseline GPUs for "20K+" overall score are the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. I would assume if he was looking at "23K+" scores, he wouldn't say "20K+".
The 2GHz clock is odd, but makes sense in the context of the PS5 BC patent and Oberon clocks. After seeing the recent TPU article on the BIOS flash for the 5700 and it's results, I think it makes even more sense in regards to performance and yields.
Fuck, this could easily spill over into the mm³ warz if we're not careful.
bitbydeath
Member
Have devs talked about the Xbox devkit yet?
Fake
Member
Not yet. I was expecting somethink after this second wired article.
Or instead Microsoft giving Digital Foundry some hint after they cover Xbox One X, but as you can see they're very quiet this time.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They never shared prior to launch in the past, but also it would show their cooling/heatsink setup/fastener they have the patent on. If they went with it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That's wasn't a "rumor". It was a made up "rumor" by click sites based on a Japanese journalists commentary.
He never even said it is what he heard, at all, just the direction he thinks will happen or wants to happen.
If there are 2 SKUs, it would be due to storage size, nothing more. The silicon makes no sense until a die shrink if they go the mid gen route again.
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rəddəM
Member
The new metric of next gen power.
Oberon is not a canned chip. Refer to the conversation that was posted by CurryPanda. Arden and Oberon are 2 chips that continue to move forward. Sorry to burst your 400mm bubble.
I understand that those are not exact numbers. It could mean that PS5 is a bit over 300mm but XBox is around that 350mm. The data probably didn't show exact chip size but I guess there was size category number or something because they mention that Arden is one size bigger than Oberon.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
vpance
I took it more as an approximation, like ~300mm² and ~350mm². If you believe in the OQA PCB leak, then it is 316mm², likely 16GB GDDR6 18Gbps, and likely 1TB SSD with 4GB DRAM buffer.
Don't forget the scarlett APU shown at E3 2019 was roughly calculated to be 360 - 380mm²
I don't think the scarlett APU will be smaller then the 1X's, which means at least 44cu's.
The question is what they decide to clock it at.
Historically the 1X GPU was clocked a little lower then its PC counterparts base clock.
So of they do the same again and clock just under the base clock of the 5700xt (1600mhz) that would give us a 9tflops, which is pretty great all things considered, better then vega 64 by a significant margin.
TLZ
Banned
Oh. Thanks for clarifying.
Racer!
Member
We know the size of PS5 bus?
TeamGhobad
Banned
bigger obviously it means more CU's.
bhunachicken
Member
I have a feeling that the PS5's secret sauce is actually hardware accelerated raytracing on the GPU.
Digital Foundry also said that they expect the raytracing in the console to be used primarily for shadows and ambient occlusion. We could see it used for some reflections, but I mostly think we'll be seeing the tried and tested rasterization tricks again next gen.
So:
1st gen game: "Yeah, they run faster than the PS4, but my £2,000 PC rig can still do it better."
2nd gen game: "That game actually looks amazing. Does anyone know if it's coming to PC?"
3rd gen game: "For f*ck's sake, Sony, why is that game an exclusive?!! That's so stupid! I'm going to start a petition on Change.org to get them to release it on PC!!!"*
(* - this literally happened with H:ZD - https://www.change.org/p/sony-horizon-zero-dawn-on-pc)
Digital Foundry also said that they expect the raytracing in the console to be used primarily for shadows and ambient occlusion. We could see it used for some reflections, but I mostly think we'll be seeing the tried and tested rasterization tricks again next gen.
So:
1st gen game: "Yeah, they run faster than the PS4, but my £2,000 PC rig can still do it better."
2nd gen game: "That game actually looks amazing. Does anyone know if it's coming to PC?"
3rd gen game: "For f*ck's sake, Sony, why is that game an exclusive?!! That's so stupid! I'm going to start a petition on Change.org to get them to release it on PC!!!"*
(* - this literally happened with H:ZD - https://www.change.org/p/sony-horizon-zero-dawn-on-pc)
joe_zazen
Member
.
it is just confusing because sony's is like 10%-20% smaller yet more powerful supposedly.
it is just confusing because sony's is like 10%-20% smaller yet more powerful supposedly.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Depends on what you spend it on. Xbox One's SoC(363mm²) was larger than PS4's(348mm²) due to the SRAM(47MB?), yet less powerful. Additionally, cooling solution, clock speeds, memory config, and targeted MSRP play a role.
Like R600 said, it could be as simple as memory controller size or different sized L3 cache. We've seen the Scarlett SoC and memory iirc it had mix module sizes with -HC14, or 14gbps GDDR6. To get their necessary bandwidth they might go wider and slower with slightly larger pool of memory, while Sony might choose 256-bit bus with faster -HC18/18Gbps memory.
Each company has their needs, so they with customize in manner that fits their plan. Sony BC's patent give a lends credence to idea of "hardware-ish" BC with legacy clocks, so something like the Oberon leaks could fit the profile nicely. MS is more abstracted with their BC due to the shift from Xbox One(47MB SRAM, 8GB DDR3) to Xbox One X(12GB GDDR6 unified memory).
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TeamGhobad
Banned
APU size or die size is the space you can put your gpu cpu mem controller on and other things. the bigger it is the more space for stuff to put on it. this gen ps4 had a smaller apu but more powerful because MS used 1/3 of their die size for 32megs of esram....yes 32megabytes....never seen anyone take a bigger shit on a soc than this.
I mean, it was (back when it was designed), only certain way to get 8GB in console (Kinect and TV stuff).
Sony went with GDDR5 and would have go with 4GB if Samsung chips wherent available. They gambled and won, if they put 4GBs in there maybe it would look a bit different now.
FranXico
Member
It's not much of a secret sauce since both machines will have this.
Which I'm ok with. Let competition be based on games next gen.
Darius87
Member
smaller is better because it's cheaper to make, less power draw, less heat.
Evilms
Banned
Open World Tech Demo Running On Navi-Based Hardware Shows What The PlayStation 5 Will Be Capable Of
An online report suggests that a PlayStation 5 tech demo that is being shown is way ahead of current gen consoles in terms of scope and environment dynamics
wccftech.com
Fake
Member
Bigger, BUT price, heat, size, etc...
bhunachicken
Member
Ah, okay. Means Sony wins by default. That'll be five generations in a row now ...
(waits for the triggered reactions to flood in)
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TBiddy
Member
Ah, okay. Means Sony wins by default. That'll be five generations in a row now ...
(waits for the triggered reactions to flood in)
What did you hope to accomplish by this?
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Lone Wolf
Member
Live by the console warz, die by the console warz.
nikolino840
Member
30fps again?
A new report posted by a former GameFan magazine editor on ResetEra revealed that he has recently seen a tech demo of a multiplatform open-world game that is in development for PlayStation 5, Xbox Scarlett and PC.
wccftech.com
A new report posted by a former GameFan magazine editor on ResetEra revealed that he has recently seen a tech demo of a multiplatform open-world game that is in development for PlayStation 5, Xbox Scarlett and PC.
Open World Tech Demo Running On Navi-Based Hardware Shows What The PlayStation 5 Will Be Capable Of
An online report suggests that a PlayStation 5 tech demo that is being shown is way ahead of current gen consoles in terms of scope and environment dynamics
wccftech.com
Fake
Member
And next next gen will be the same again. Its up to devs. Surprise surprise.
Stuart360
Member
Stuart360
Member
You realize every PS1 game could of been 60fps right?, its not simply a power issue. Devs will always try and push better graphics over framerate on console most of the time. There may be a higher percentage of 60fps games next gen, simply because of the decent cpu, but the majority of games will still be 30fps, like it is every gen.30fps again?
A new report posted by a former GameFan magazine editor on ResetEra revealed that he has recently seen a tech demo of a multiplatform open-world game that is in development for PlayStation 5, Xbox Scarlett and PC.
Open World Tech Demo Running On Navi-Based Hardware Shows What The PlayStation 5 Will Be Capable Of
An online report suggests that a PlayStation 5 tech demo that is being shown is way ahead of current gen consoles in terms of scope and environment dynamics
EDIT. The user comments under that article, jesus wept. I thought this place was bad lol.
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IIRC Xbox One was less powerful because it used DDR3 RAM (at that point PS4 was planned to have 4GB of GDDR5, but sony managed to put 8GB at the last minute). The cpu had a higher clock, and the GPU was under clocked. The ESRAM is used as a trick to compensate part of its deficits.
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Aceofspades
Banned
lol thats some good spin right there, 'checks post history'
He is technically right. Also PS4 had smaller silicon than Xbox One yet was more powerful. Only case bigger is better is when you guarantee that both silicon share exactly the same design.
Darius87
Member
i'm looking from company perspective not from gamers.
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