Negotiator
Member
I think most PC users use good ol' wired Ethernet. Home console users should do the same.
If we get better Wi-Fi, it will most likely be for wireless VR usage.
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If we get better Wi-Fi, it will most likely be for wireless VR usage.
llien
Member
Come on guys.
We get 30fps because in "better graphics at 30fps or worse at 60fps" the former always wins.
Why would PS5 change that?
Kazekage1981
Member
Since Microsoft is really pushing for cloud (streaming games is a huge part of it), will they finally be able to offset graphical compute out to their servers and send it back to xbox scarllett via wifi6 connections (it can reach theoretical up to 10 Gbps) to free the zen 2 cpu and navi rdna gpu so it can prioritize other graphical demands. Maybe its secret sauce?
Negotiator
Member
There's only one reason it could potentially change:
Read all the tweets, it explains how hard it is for artists these days, even in relatively "underpowered" consoles designed back in 2012.
All this AAA crunch is probably the reason TLOU2 got delayed and if you ask me, I won't be surprised if it gets delayed once again until late 2020 (PS5 launch) to add some extra bling (RTX ON).
First of all, nobody has a 10 Gbps internet connection, so (W)LAN speed is irrelevant.
Regardless of that, it's a matter of input latency.
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Only for specific fixed paths.
It's not different from any other fixed path hardware. And so far I haven't seen any food inference models for gaming.
Imtjnotu
Member
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Aceofspades
Banned
Short answer is no. Nothing over the internet can replace local hardware.
The ninja farmer
Member
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I really don't see how the next gens can be more then 11.26tflops, unless the go $549 or higher.
44 x 64 x 2 x 2000mhz =11264000 - 1000000 = 11.264tflops
In nov 2020 a 11tf rdna2 card is going to be nearly top of the line, it will be on the same level as a 2080super.
I think at $499 price point 9-10tflops is a lot more realistic.
44 x 64 x 2 x 2000mhz =11264000 - 1000000 = 11.264tflops
In nov 2020 a 11tf rdna2 card is going to be nearly top of the line, it will be on the same level as a 2080super.
I think at $499 price point 9-10tflops is a lot more realistic.
bitbydeath
Member
56CU would send it over 11TF which is possible but granted on the high-end.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
56cu total? So 52 active?
Yes any CU count up to rdna's limit is possible but the question is, what is realistic. If we go by recent history consoles have made a small profit, the ps4 and x1 had about a $380 BOM, so if next gen is $499 rrp then there BOM will be about $480, unless they go for a bigger loss, but I don't see any reason why they would.
bitbydeath
Member
It could realistically go as high as 60CU, 56 active.
What we do know is that AMD Ray Tracing is expected to arrive in next years cards.
AMD’s second-gen RDNA GPUs will feature hardware accelerated ray tracing in 2020
At the E3 Editor's Day AMD has unveiled its Ray Tracing Vision... which will eventually stretch into the cloud
www.pcgamesn.com
And it will obviously be a step up from their current cards.
Setting the minimum CU count for next-gen at 44 active.
Negotiator
Member
Top of the line? Slightly mid-range for late 2020 standards.
You're going to see 20TF discrete GPUs next year. Unless nVidia goes crazy with Tensor/RT cores and compromises the FP32 ALU count.
AMD doesn't have that limitation.
56 CUs * 64 ALUs * 2 ops * 2000 MHz gives us 14.3 TF
Same as these 2 rumors/leaks:
The question is how they're going to cool that beast... maybe Sony has the answer with that V design/cooling patent. We'll see.
Insane Metal
Member
^Those are not 'romours/leaks'. Those are simply tales from someone's ass.
OT: I'm pretty sure those consoles will come with 24GB GDDR6.
OT: I'm pretty sure those consoles will come with 24GB GDDR6.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It could realistically go as high as 60CU, 56 active.
What we do know is that AMD Ray Tracing is expected to arrive in next years cards.
AMD’s second-gen RDNA GPUs will feature hardware accelerated ray tracing in 2020
At the E3 Editor's Day AMD has unveiled its Ray Tracing Vision... which will eventually stretch into the cloud
And it will obviously be a step up from their current cards.
Setting the minimum CU count for next-gen at 44 active.
Yeah at like $599
Also there is just a good of a chance of 36 or 40 active cu's.
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bitbydeath
Member
pawel86ck
Banned
It would be great, but this particular leak is without any doubts fake because "April 1" date is always used in jokes.
Imtjnotu
Member
Are these even official sizes?
joe_zazen
Member
confirmation from korean dank dark black, reram in ps5. Link
Gaf onQ123 thread about reram: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-...large-amount-of-reram-as-the-ps5-ssd.1477282/
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Negotiator
Member
$599 BOM is perfectly acceptable with a $100 loss.
They have highly profitable services/digital ecosystems, so why not?
We didn't have that luxury during the PS2/PS3 era.
Huh, interesting!confirmation from korean dank dark black, reram in ps5. Link
Gaf onQ123 thread about reram: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-...large-amount-of-reram-as-the-ps5-ssd.1477282/
QLC NAND is still a safe bet, but it will be funny if O onQ123 is redeemed.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I'm talking about a $599 rrp, with those specs.
Like I said I see no reason to think they will be taking bigger losses then usual.
llien
Member
Let's mix 5nm in, shall we:
www.anandtech.com
Perhaps not directly in 2020, but shortly after.
TSMC: 5nm on Track for Q2 2020 HVM, Will Ramp Faster Than 7nm
Perhaps not directly in 2020, but shortly after.
Negotiator
Member
Has Microsoft confirmed the process they're gonna use?Let's mix 5nm in, shall we:
TSMC: 5nm on Track for Q2 2020 HVM, Will Ramp Faster Than 7nm
Perhaps not directly in 2020, but shortly after.
Only Sony (via AMD) has confirmed 7nm.
bitbydeath
Member
You forget they also receive the parts much cheaper than consumers.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Keep in mind that this gen we had more games targeting 60 than the gen before, or even those targeting 30 hold it better. This is because after you reach a certain level of power game x will just not need more, they will not always have a possibility or desire to make things look better.
Obviously some teams will still target 30, but there will be less of them, unless raytracing kills performance (like it does on PC) and they decide to use it anyway.
That look more like someone taking info off of the internet & making a story of it.
Here is a actual link about Sony's ReRam from 2019
日経クロステック（xTECH）
テクノロジーの進化によって様々な業界の境界（クロス）領域で新たなビジネスが続々と誕生する今、どこの誰と、どう組めば新たなチャンスを掴むことができるのか。日経クロステック（xTECH）は、 ITから電機、自動車、建設、土木まで、今をえぐり、一歩先を照らす情報をお届けします。
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Indeed.
Depends what they go for really.
But I think they will have a BOM of $480 - 520 and a rrp of $499.
We should also remember that the 8 core zen2 will be more expensive then the 8 core jaguar was in 2013, the zen 2 is a fully fledged desktop cpu, the jaguars were like netbook crap. I think the ssd will be about the same price as the 500gb hdds were in 2013 because they will put nand chips directly onto the motherboard saving in cost. So maybe if they go with a total of 16gb ram they might be able to get 56total cu's, but I think it's unlikely. My bet is on 44 - 48.
SmokSmog
Member
Interesting https://www.anandtech.com/show/14952/samsung-develops-12layer-3d-tsv-dram
You can do 24GB with 2 stacks 12GB each, using 2048 bit bus.
2x6gb, 2x12gb, 2x24gb 2048bit
4x6gb or 4x12, 4x24GB 4096bit
You can do 24GB with 2 stacks 12GB each, using 2048 bit bus.
2x6gb, 2x12gb, 2x24gb 2048bit
4x6gb or 4x12, 4x24GB 4096bit
joe_zazen
Member
definately. it probably isn't happening, but still would be super cool.
The chance of it happening is pretty high but that link came across as just someone's speculation.
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Insane Metal
Member
Mr.XtremeGamer
Neo Member
The funny thing is what you guys are gonna think after viewing the total nonsense Misterxmedia and all the hardcore fanboys from the xbox side of things are posted. He blocked my main twitter account after i called him out on his nonsense, so i created another one to spy on the absolute garbage him and his clueless fans are littering the place with, you'd be surprised at the amount of utter hubris and ignorance i came across. Seems they are so hellbent on playstation failing that they go to such extremes to prove the nextbox is superior without knowing anything substantial about it or the ps5. Take a look and see for yourselves.
Mr.XtremeGamer
Neo Member
Mr.XtremeGamer
Neo Member
By mistake , my bad. Sorry
Mr.XtremeGamer
Neo Member
I was trying to upload an image but was unable to , and pressed the post by accident
Fake
Gold Member
No problem.
Mr.XtremeGamer
Neo Member
These are the posts i'm referring to . Goes to show the type of braindead people we're dealing with.
Here they are , for your amusement!!!
P.s. Sorry for the duplicate image
Here they are , for your amusement!!!
P.s. Sorry for the duplicate image
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Negotiator
Member
No, we have debunked this myth way too many times already:
https://adoredtv.com/zen2-chiplet-quality-examined-by-cost/ (spoiler alert: it's a $30 CPU with 7nm chiplet + 12nm I/O die, it's gonna be even smaller in a monolithic 7nm APU die)
You're not paying on the basis if it's a netbook or desktop IP, you're paying on the basis of die size.
8-core Zen @ 7nm requires roughly the same amount of die space as 8-core Jaguar @ 28nm.
SonGoku
had done the calculations long time ago.Negotiator
Member
Another myth we need to dispel (wafer prices):
2015:
2019:
4 years ago a 14nm FinFET wafer cost $16000.
4 years later a 16nm FinFET (12-14nm is roughly the same process) wafer costs less than $6000.
3nm wafers are projected to cost over $15000 initially, almost as much as 14nm FinFET back in 2015. See a pattern here?
Why is that? Because manufacturing a new fab requires more money (better/more elaborate equipment) than the previous one and you need to recoup that:
www.tomshardware.com
TL;DR: wafer prices are not static. Fab costs are insane, but improved yields and supply/demand curves means the prices will drop over time.
There's a reason Nintendo waited until 2019 to take advantage of 16nm.
2015:
2019:
4 years ago a 14nm FinFET wafer cost $16000.
4 years later a 16nm FinFET (12-14nm is roughly the same process) wafer costs less than $6000.
3nm wafers are projected to cost over $15000 initially, almost as much as 14nm FinFET back in 2015. See a pattern here?
Why is that? Because manufacturing a new fab requires more money (better/more elaborate equipment) than the previous one and you need to recoup that:
TSMC Starts $19.5 Billion 3nm Fab Construction
TSMC plows forward with 3nm plans
TL;DR: wafer prices are not static. Fab costs are insane, but improved yields and supply/demand curves means the prices will drop over time.
There's a reason Nintendo waited until 2019 to take advantage of 16nm.
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joe_zazen
Member
Another myth we need to dispel (wafer prices):
2015:
2019:
4 years ago a 14nm FinFET wafer cost $16000.
4 years later a 16nm FinFET (12-14nm is roughly the same process) wafer costs less than $6000.
3nm wafers are projected to cost over $15000 initially, almost as much as 14nm FinFET back in 2015. See a pattern here?
Why is that? Because manufacturing a new fab requires more money (better/more elaborate equipment) than the previous one and you need to recoup that:
TSMC Starts $19.5 Billion 3nm Fab Construction
TSMC plows forward with 3nm plans
TL;DR: wafer prices are not static. Fab costs are insane, but improved yields and supply/demand curves means the prices will drop over time.
There's a reason Nintendo waited until 2019 to take advantage of 16nm.
it is the cost for actual chip designing on a smaller process that increases exponentially, separate for the actual manufacturing Plant/equipment costs. I think that is where the increased costs come from, not the cost of the wafer. Ie it will cost sony a lot more to get a 7nm designed than it did for 28, even if wafer costs aren’t that different.
At least that is what i have read.
Negotiator
Member
No, I wasn't talking about R&D/tape-out (you're right about the increase, but that's a one-off cost).
Manufacturing tends to cost more since 20nm due to multi-patterning. EUV is the savior and the holy grail of the silicon industry, because it will allow them to reduce lithography masks (less manufacturing steps, so less costs).
Not to mention the etching quality will drastically improve, which is crucial for many reasons (console longevity, higher clocks, less leakage, better density):
Aceofspades
Banned
Mr.XtremeGamer
Neo Member
Fanboys are fanboys man. They like to pull a lot of fantasies out of their ass. They should stick them right back where they belong. Diehard xbox fanboys such as the cherry on top Misterxmedia and his fanboys, will go to great lengths to prove something, even if that something doesn't make sense to begin with. They claim they know how stuff in the computing industry works and call themselves insiders. They are insiders in their fantasy world, but the real world is different.
TeamGhobad
Banned
with everything we know, i say it will be a fucking miracle if we get 48cus
Negotiator
Member
It's not the 80 CU part that's ridiculous (they can do whatever they want with experimental devkits, including having discrete Vega GPUs), it's the RDNA1 (Sony) vs RDNA2 (MS) part.
Both of them are going to be RDNA2 (due to HW RT), so what's the point of lowballing Sony? Unless you have an agenda (aka system wars) of course... fanboys gonna be fanboys, there's no cure for them. Let them dream!
5nm also seems a bit risky to me, I'm not sure if they can make it in time for a late 2020 release. Unless it gets delayed until 2021, which means Sony would get a next-gen headstart.
Both of them are going to be RDNA2 (due to HW RT), so what's the point of lowballing Sony? Unless you have an agenda (aka system wars) of course... fanboys gonna be fanboys, there's no cure for them. Let them dream!
5nm also seems a bit risky to me, I'm not sure if they can make it in time for a late 2020 release. Unless it gets delayed until 2021, which means Sony would get a next-gen headstart.
TeamGhobad
Banned
if PS5 is RDNA and Nexbox is RDNA2 then MS is back in the game baby!
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