Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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CrustyBritches said:
Fake Fake

Don't get me wrong, I hope to see a Lockhart model so I can afford 2 consoles instead of 1, but that was E3 2018, DF's vid was Jan. 29, 2019, and the Xbox1Sad was announced April 2019.

I believe the Lockhart/Anaconda rumor comes from "Klobrille", but I'll do some more digging.
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www.eurogamer.net

Spec Analysis: Can Project Scarlett truly deliver Xbox's biggest generational leap?

What if raw performance isn't the game-changer this time?
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

Based on our own information, along with teasing reveals within the Scarlett announcement trailer, here are my thoughts on the set-up of the box - well, one of them at least. Curiously, Microsoft is using very strange PR-speak to avoid the question of the leaked lower-end box, codenamed Lockhart.
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My take from this: the lockhart cancel get even DF by surprise. They're quite optimist, maybe their source proved, at least in dev.
Thats why after The Verge article the DF get so quiet.
 
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The whole 2 sku approach by MS is absolutely to mean Sony cant catch them out.

If sony releases cheap then they have cheap to counter .. if sony releases expensive then they also have a counter.

Both may come to market if theres an advantage.
 
~Fake said:
Based on our own information, along with teasing reveals within the Scarlett announcement trailer, here are my thoughts on the set-up of the box - well, one of them at least.
Click to expand...
I read, "Here are my thoughts based on our own information on the set-up of the box."
---
I did some digging, and the source of "Anaconda/Lockhart" is likely Jez Corden. Don't believe MS ever said a word, and XboxSAD can explain multiple "consoles" mention.

I hope they do a Lockhart. It would probably take a fat shit on current-gen consoles, and with RiS you wouldn't be losing very much detail.
 
~Fake said:
I dunno about that. You see, some third parties are really targeting the PRO and X rather than base models.

I already posted here my take about that... About base ps4 and xbox one both getting discontinued, while PRO and X take their place and PS5/Scarlet become the premium models.
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Most people own base consoles. It's easier for MS and Sony to just discontinue the mid gen consoles. Developers would still build for them, you would just need to buy the new consoles to take advantage of the games if you couldn't get a Pro or X.
 
CrustyBritches said:
I read, "Here are my thoughts based on our own information on the set-up of the box."
---
I did some digging, and the source of "Anaconda/Lockhart" is likely Jez Corden. Don't believe MS ever said a word, and XboxSAD can explain multiple "consoles" mention.

I hope they do a Lockhart. It would probably take a fat shit on current-gen consoles, and with RiS you wouldn't be losing very much detail.
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I usally agree with both consoles, but in his middle lifetime just like PRO and X.
Dunno if will be a good move releasing two version. I remember consumers being quite mad about Xbox 360/Wii U premium versions for the time.

I still think is a terrible ideia, but if they can make profit with that so be it. Nothing against.
 
MarkMe2525 said:
Microsoft has never said they were doing it one way or the other. How is that flip flopping ? They have yet to announce their full next gen plans.
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Phil denied there being multiple consoles when asked.

"Last year we said consoles, and we've shipped a console [the Xbox One S All-Digital] and we've now detailed another console. I think that's plural," Spencer said. "Technically that is plural. Right now we're focused on Project Scarlett and what we put on stage."
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www.trustedreviews.com

Xbox 'Lockhart' lower-priced console dumped – this could be why

Microsoft has reportedly dropped plans to launch a lower-priced version of its next-gen Xbox console, according to reports.
www.trustedreviews.com www.trustedreviews.com

There's nothing credible here to state they're switching back. It's dead.
 
Can someone explain where the BOM estimates are coming from? I see a lot of "$600 BOM, $499rrp and $100 loss" in various predictions.

As far as I know, we have no idea what the cost per square mm for the APU dies is for N7 or indeed N7+ at TSMC. Does anyone have any info regarding this?
 
BattleScar said:
Can someone explain where the BOM estimates are coming from? I see a lot of "$600 BOM, $499rrp and $100 loss" in various predictions.

As far as I know, we have no idea what the cost per square mm for the APU dies is for N7 or indeed N7+ at TSMC. Does anyone have any info regarding this?
Click to expand...
My guess would be the expensive cooling to get the rumored 2Ghz plus the custom SSD and 4k-bluray drive. I still think we 399.99 next generation unfortunately and under powered devices rumored of 8-9tf. I do think they each eat little money to get to 399.99 this time with the cooling and SSD. It won't be a ton maybe 440 cost to make so 10 percent more. Granted tariffs could change that depending. Costs will go down quick with new processes around the corner and revisions.
 
I think MS delivering two different consoles at launch would be a real bad idea. It's okay for us gamers, the ones that frequent these forums and know all about specs and that, but your average person on the street ... yeah, they get confused really easy. If MS had two console and Sony had just the one, I could see people scratching their head over which of the two Xbox machines is better for them, pondering if they'd end up making a mistake, and then just buying the PS5, seeing it as safer.

As an anecdote to your average person confusion:

When the Wii was launched, I was watching some children playing with the wiimotes in a store in London. A woman was watching them, absolutely baffled.

Her: "I don't understand how it's working."
Me: "What do you mean?"
Her: "How are they controlling it?"
Me: "With the controllers."
Her: "But they're not connected."
Me: "They're connected wirelessly."
Her: "What does that mean?"
Me: "Well, you know how you can control your TV with your remote? It's the same thing."
Her: (considering this). "But all the other games machines use wires to their controllers."
Me: "The Wii doesn't need them. The controllers communicate with the Wii without them. Like a TV remote."
Her: "I still don't understand."

She wasn't pulling my leg. She genuinely didn't understand the idea. It was ... wow.
 
bhunachicken said:
I think MS delivering two different consoles at launch would be a real bad idea. It's okay for us gamers, the ones that frequent these forums and know all about specs and that, but your average person on the street ... yeah, they get confused really easy. If MS had two console and Sony had just the one, I could see people scratching their head over which of the two Xbox machines is better for them, pondering if they'd end up making a mistake, and then just buying the PS5, seeing it as safer.

As an anecdote to your average person confusion:

When the Wii was launched, I was watching some children playing with the wiimotes in a store in London. A woman was watching them, absolutely baffled.

Her: "I don't understand how it's working."
Me: "What do you mean?"
Her: "How are they controlling it?"
Me: "With the controllers."
Her: "But they're not connected."
Me: "They're connected wirelessly."
Her: "What does that mean?"
Me: "Well, you know how you can control your TV with your remote? It's the same thing."
Her: (considering this). "But all the other games machines use wires to their controllers."
Me: "The Wii doesn't need them. The controllers communicate with the Wii without them. Like a TV remote."
Her: "I still don't understand."

She wasn't pulling my leg. She genuinely didn't understand the idea. It was ... wow.
Click to expand...
Didn't she also understand how mobile phones work compared to landline phones?

That's ridiculous, considering the fact PS360 also had wireless controllers.

Regarding the average joe, a potential $299 SKU is supposed to target him/her, not us. A cheap next-gen 1080p60 box, no 4K/RT. There are price-conscious consumers that don't care about anything else.
 
Lort said:
The whole 2 sku approach by MS is absolutely to mean Sony cant catch them out.

If sony releases cheap then they have cheap to counter .. if sony releases expensive then they also have a counter.

Both may come to market if theres an advantage.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is an advantage this early on. The weaker SKU will always be the one devs use as the baseline, it's easier to port up than port down, so the weaker next-gen Xbox would always hold back the more powerful one (kinda like how XBO currently does with XBO-X).

If the cheaper option is just gutting the disc drive and lowering the storage, well we kinda already seen with the SAD Edition that doesn't do much to the price. A $299 Scarlett won't do much against a $399 PS5 (assuming PS5 is $399) because early adopters actually care about their physical media and gimping the storage (both in amount and bandwidth) kind of kills the hype around these "revolutionary" SSDs the new systems are supposed to be using.

MS needs to stick to one SKU out of the gate, even if that means the system's $499. By all the rumors, it seems like PS5's gonna be $499 too unless Sony's willing to take the big losses (they don't have the cash reserves to anchor that nearly as well as MS however), so it's just going to come down to who has the best games and most feature-rich experience. And a $299 gimped stop-gap of a wannabe cheap next-gen alternative won't be able to do much of either by comparison to a fully-powered Scarlett or PS5 with simple 1 SKU approaches that aren't cutting storage, disc drives, RAM, or compute capability.

Negotiator said:
Didn't she also understand how mobile phones work compared to landline phones?

That's ridiculous, considering the fact PS360 also had wireless controllers.

Regarding the average joe, a potential $299 SKU is supposed to target him/her, not us. A cheap next-gen 1080p60 box, no 4K/RT. There are price-conscious consumers that don't care about anything else.
Click to expand...

In the long run a 2nd cheaper SKU isn't a bad thing. But the problem is I don't think those average price-conscious consumers make up the bulk of early adopters. Traditionally, they never really have, even for bonafide successes like the PS1 and PS2. Core and hardcore gamers are willing to pay the premiums for better hardware and it's usually about a year or two later you see the prices lower so the console manufacturers can start expanding to more price-conscious types with lower-priced revisions and SKUs.

If anything, because of the digital ecosystems core and hardcore gamers invest in so much these days, companies like Sony and MS make back in profits quicker than back in the day which means it wouldn't even be too long before that type of $299 SKU would be viable or happen. But still, for image/optics and because price-conscious gamers still only make of a minority of early adopters, I think it's better if they do 1 SKU and find ways to price-reduce it over the course of a year or so to bring out cheaper revised units to target more people.
 
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
In the long run a 2nd cheaper SKU isn't a bad thing. But the problem is I don't think those average price-conscious consumers make up the bulk of early adopters. Traditionally, they never really have, even for bonafide successes like the PS1 and PS2. Core and hardcore gamers are willing to pay the premiums for better hardware and it's usually about a year or two later you see the prices lower so the console manufacturers can start expanding to more price-conscious types with lower-priced revisions and SKUs.

If anything, because of the digital ecosystems core and hardcore gamers invest in so much these days, companies like Sony and MS make back in profits quicker than back in the day which means it wouldn't even be too long before that type of $299 SKU would be viable or happen. But still, for image/optics and because price-conscious gamers still only make of a minority of early adopters, I think it's better if they do 1 SKU and find ways to price-reduce it over the course of a year or so to bring out cheaper revised units to target more people.
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Fair enough.

I want them both to release 2 next-gen beasts with no compromises and meanwhile offer 7nm PS4/XB1 Super Slim variants for the price-conscious audience.

Pro/X have to be discontinued (no die shrinks at all), they will have nothing to offer next year for the enthusiast console audience that seeks a "premium" experience.

I reckon cross-gen games will get released until 2022 at least. Plenty of time for PS5/XB2 die shrinks and thus price drops.
 
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Negotiator said:
Fair enough.

I want them both to release 2 next-gen beasts with no compromises and meanwhile offer 7nm PS4/XB1 Super Slim variants for the price-conscious audience.

Pro/X have to be discontinued (no die shrinks at all), they will have nothing to offer next year for the enthusiast console audience that seeks a "premium" experience.

I reckon cross-gen games will get released until 2022 at least. Plenty of time for PS5/XB2 die shrinks and thus price drops.
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lol wtf
 
Sycomunkee said:
lol wtf
Click to expand...

Both Sony and MS are more than likely going to put them on 7nm as well, since it is more cost effective in the long run.

I can see a 7nm $99-$150 PS4 to get much more people to invest in the ecosystem, then by the time the PS5 is in the $250-$300 price range, they just upgrade and all their stuff goes with them.
 
~Fake said:
Why not? Must missed 360/PS3 era.
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Negotiator said:
Never heard the rumors about a PS4 7nm APU fabbed by Samsung?
Click to expand...
DeepEnigma said:
Both Sony and MS are more than likely going to put them on 7nm as well, since it is more cost effective in the long run.

I can see a 7nm $99-$150 PS4 to get much more people to invest in the ecosystem, then by the time the PS5 is in the $250-$300 price range, they just upgrade and all their stuff goes with them.
Click to expand...
spons said:
There were at least 8 Xbox 360 revisions, going from 90 nm to 45 nm and all in-between.
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I appears that I may be the crazy one.
 
Have we heard anything on cross generation play? I ask as BC has been confirmed but will I be able to play destiny 2 on my ps5 with my friends that are on ps4? Also, will I be able to give my ps4 to my kids and then play with them on the digital Games? So game sharing cross gen I guess you could say.
 
Trogdor1123 said:
Have we heard anything on cross generation play? I ask as BC has been confirmed but will I be able to play destiny 2 on my ps5 with my friends that are on ps4? Also, will I be able to give my ps4 to my kids and then play with them on the digital Games? So game sharing cross gen I guess you could say.
Click to expand...

It appears that there are a lot of articles regarding this which points to a yes.

Below I pasted the Google search, not to be snarky, but informative.
 
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https://wccftech.com/new-amd-gpu-spotted-rra-big-navi/

Considering it just passed the certification, we are likely looking at the RDNA2-based full Navi die that will support ray tracing at a hardware level. This is the same GPU that will power the next-generation Playstation 5 and the Xbox as well (remember AMD designed Navi for the consoles, read more about that over here). In all likelihood, we are finally catching our first glimpse of "big" Navi. You might remember my exclusive published a year and a half back that predicted that the flagship Navi part won't land earlier than 2H 2019 or early 2020. Well, there you have it, folks, it's finally happening.
Click to expand...
 
Lort said:
The whole 2 sku approach by MS is absolutely to mean Sony cant catch them out.

If sony releases cheap then they have cheap to counter .. if sony releases expensive then they also have a counter.

Both may come to market if theres an advantage.
Click to expand...

MS can release 5 SKUs and it still doesnt mean that people with ps4 would jump to xbox.

Personally I know 1-2 gamers that have changed egosystem since ps1. Both switched to sony, because xbox ain't for serious gamers.

My point is, MS can release superior console with half the price and STILL many many gamers wont give a shit, and buy PS5.

I guess there are casual gamers that switch between sony/ms between gens, but I would guess that most just stick on one platform and maybe get both, but it isnt that common to switch them just because of price etc.

I know that MS vs SONY is big deal on US, but seriously xbox isnt seen as serious platform at "rest of the world", it is just the sad underdog that some get from Santa and have to play it because their parents didnt know what to buy.

Also ps4 dominated this gen so they would have to FUCK UP really badly to fail, even if MS does everything right, it doesnt help if sony doesnt go full retard, and that is unlikely to happen.

My bet is that PS5 surprises everybody and is the faster one
 
PocoJoe said:
MS can release 5 SKUs and it still doesnt mean that people with ps4 would jump to xbox.

Personally I know 1-2 gamers that have changed egosystem since ps1. Both switched to sony, because xbox ain't for serious gamers.

My point is, MS can release superior console with half the price and STILL many many gamers wont give a shit, and buy PS5.

I guess there are casual gamers that switch between sony/ms between gens, but I would guess that most just stick on one platform and maybe get both, but it isnt that common to switch them just because of price etc.

I know that MS vs SONY is big deal on US, but seriously xbox isnt seen as serious platform at "rest of the world", it is just the sad underdog that some get from Santa and have to play it because their parents didnt know what to buy.

Also ps4 dominated this gen so they would have to FUCK UP really badly to fail, even if MS does everything right, it doesnt help if sony doesnt go full retard, and that is unlikely to happen.

My bet is that PS5 surprises everybody and is the faster one
Click to expand...
Unless Xbox comes out the gate with a compelling 1st party lineup, I see your point. But I think serious gamers are system agnostic.
 
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ArabianPrynce said:
BIG FUCKING NEWS, ps5 will use "big navi"
Click to expand...
Wait, what? The 36 CU $399 dream is dead now? :P

PocoJoe said:
MS can release 5 SKUs and it still doesnt mean that people with ps4 would jump to xbox.

Personally I know 1-2 gamers that have changed egosystem since ps1. Both switched to sony, because xbox ain't for serious gamers.

My point is, MS can release superior console with half the price and STILL many many gamers wont give a shit, and buy PS5.

I guess there are casual gamers that switch between sony/ms between gens, but I would guess that most just stick on one platform and maybe get both, but it isnt that common to switch them just because of price etc.

I know that MS vs SONY is big deal on US, but seriously xbox isnt seen as serious platform at "rest of the world", it is just the sad underdog that some get from Santa and have to play it because their parents didnt know what to buy.

Also ps4 dominated this gen so they would have to FUCK UP really badly to fail, even if MS does everything right, it doesnt help if sony doesnt go full retard, and that is unlikely to happen.

My bet is that PS5 surprises everybody and is the faster one
Click to expand...
Plenty of people switched from PS2 to XBOX 360, but it had a 1-year headstart and then back to PS4.

I wouldn't call them casuals, for me it's the equivalent of swing voters in the console scene. They have no allegiance, all they want is to side with the winner (don't blame them, it's a basic human instinct). Nobody likes the loser.

The thing is, it's harder to change sides these days, because there are huge digital backlogs and nearly guaranteed BC (unlike the previous gen transition). There are also some secondary stuff to hook you into the ecosystem such as trophies (basically a digital stamp collection).

Regarding next-gen XBOX:

www.eurogamer.net

Microsoft announces upgrade option for the next Xbox console

Microsoft has announced an upgrade option for the next Xbox console.
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

I'm a bit confused about how much the upgrade is gonna cost.
 
PocoJoe said:
MS can release 5 SKUs and it still doesnt mean that people with ps4 would jump to xbox.

Personally I know 1-2 gamers that have changed egosystem since ps1. Both switched to sony, because xbox ain't for serious gamers.

My point is, MS can release superior console with half the price and STILL many many gamers wont give a shit, and buy PS5.

I guess there are casual gamers that switch between sony/ms between gens, but I would guess that most just stick on one platform and maybe get both, but it isnt that common to switch them just because of price etc.

I know that MS vs SONY is big deal on US, but seriously xbox isnt seen as serious platform at "rest of the world", it is just the sad underdog that some get from Santa and have to play it because their parents didnt know what to buy.

Also ps4 dominated this gen so they would have to FUCK UP really badly to fail, even if MS does everything right, it doesnt help if sony doesnt go full retard, and that is unlikely to happen.

My bet is that PS5 surprises everybody and is the faster one
Click to expand...

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