Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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MastaKiiLA said:
Sadly, I'm pretty sure this was the case. Once they went with Xbox360 as a name, they were doomed to wackiness. Lord knows which marketing genius came up with Xbox One as the successor, but things have certainly not improved from there. They should just ditch the Xbox brand altogether, like Nintendo with the NES brand. Many of us thought they would go with Ultra NES, but they went Nintendo64, and then Gamecube, and then Wii. At least there was never any confusion for gamers, parents, or retailers. PlayStation branding has been the easiest to follow, with even the PS4 Pro being easy to differentiate namewise from the base model. Series S/X doesn't really give much room for iteration, unless they want to slap a 2 at the end for the next generation. I doubt it though. Xbox2 would have sold just as well as Xbox360. If anything, gamers found "360" to be a goofier naming solution than a supposedly inferior "2".
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The "one" is the worst, at least if they went with Xbox Scarlet and Lockhart it's much easier, even Xbox Scorpio for X1X. They actually sound cooler.
 
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xbox360vsps3vswii.jpg




Thanks to Bonsaibäumchen Bonsaibäumchen for the article.

d9788ccaea45b864ebc743c1e4eba7d6.jpg
 
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Blitzmangoman said:
Reading through these comments reassured me. I was getting scared of getting a launch PS5. Thanks.

So just to put out the doubt that still lingers, there won't be any problems right? :(
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To be seen. It's not normal what is happening at the moment. Yields are pretty low.

The TSMC production process is the best-in-class for yields and production. So the questions that have to be asked now, why are the yields so low? Is it clock speeds, size or lithographic complexity/size? AMD also has a great track record for 7nm so it really points to something Sony has done with the final SoC design if this turns out to be true.
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SatansReverence said:
1%?

EL - OH - EL

Unless fat PS3s account for just 1% of total sales since YLOD is virtually inevitable for 100% of PS3 fat editions. Just like RROD was virtually a 100% chance for first revision 360s.
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The heck are you getting those numbers from? I got a fat PS3 on lauch and it still works.
 
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X-Fighter said:
To be seen. It's not normal what is happening at the moment. Yields are pretty low.
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It is totally normal for initial yields with a large piece if silicon. What is discussed is the trajectory for the yield increase over time.

What yield do you think Zen 3900/3950 has for example at TMSC? I promise you that it is less than 20% BUT the failed pieces are being used as 3x00 CPUs where x is lower than 9, i.e. binning.
 
Neo Blaster said:
RAM portions have different bandwidths, are we discussing semantics now?
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A single pool of memory with variable speed depending on where data is stored is not even remotely the same as a split memory pool. It's not even semantics.


A 10% failure rate in a sample of just 16,000 consoles, 11 years ago, when the PS3 was a year younger than the 360. Big oof.
 
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Elog said:
It is totally normal for initial yields with a large piece if silicon. What is discussed is the trajectory for the yield increase over time.

What yield do you think Zen 3900/3950 has for example at TMSC? I promise you that it is less than 20% BUT the failed pieces are being used as 3x00 CPUs where x is lower than 9, i.e. binning.
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Why do you say these initial yields are normal? To what are you comparing?
 
SatansReverence said:
1%?

EL - OH - EL

Unless fat PS3s account for just 1% of total sales since YLOD is virtually inevitable for 100% of PS3 fat editions. Just like RROD was virtually a 100% chance for first revision 360s.
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Mmm... In the studies on annual deaths, people with a high probability of dying are not counted. The bodies are counted.

Although it is possible that due to my terrible level of English I am not understanding you. If so, excuse me.
 
Another day, another report with PS5's struggles. In the meantime:
  • Will have more consoles available prior to end of fiscal year than with the PS4
  • Exclusive games are coming
  • It runs actual next-gen games
  • Its not an underpowered washing machine
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
They "one" is the worst, at least if they went with Xbox Scarlet and Lockhart it's much easier, even Xbox Scorpio for X1X. They actually sound cooler.
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This remind me Xbox 360 that was meant To be xenon, there was Even a stage in Doa4 that highlighed it. I think This would've been more badass as a name.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
xbox360vsps3vswii.jpg




Thanks to Bonsaibäumchen Bonsaibäumchen for the article.

d9788ccaea45b864ebc743c1e4eba7d6.jpg
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I think the X360 had also problems with the disc drive missing some shock cushions / pads. The disc could touch the laser resulting in a circular scratch on the disc making it unreadable. In the end the laser was also damaged, not reading any disc. I think they later said that you should not move the console (vertical to horizontal) while running.
 
X-Fighter said:
Why do you say these initial yields are normal? To what are you comparing?
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Silicon fab processes. The whole concept of binning of CPUs is because of low yields in the high end. It is basically an asymptotic curve. TMSC and Sony has of course not initially put themselves in the far end of the curve based on test runs in the fab but most certainly started somewhere in the middle, i.e. 50-60% with a clear path towards improvement.

On the GPU side, the exponential cost increase in manufacturing of large GPUs as measured in mm2 is not because of silicon being exponentially more expensive. It is almost exclusively due to an exponential reduction in yields as a function of mm2 in the fab.
 
X-Fighter said:
To be seen. It's not normal what is happening at the moment. Yields are pretty low.
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No, they are rumoured from rumours/.....LOL

Its just simple FUD. 7nm is an established process at TSMC and statistics dont suddenly get worse day before ps5 big show, funny that..

Parametric yield with be a normal distribution and well known for the chips.

Particulate will be a percentage and its die size.

Saying something drastically changed when things are so well engineered and designed is pure FUD, especially that just applies to 1 customer of that FAB, its laughable..

Cant belive someone has spread such crap, well I can actually.
 
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BGs said:
The PS3 "yellow light of death" affected less than 1% of the consoles sold.

X360's "red circle of death" affecting between 25% and 50% of all X360s sold (MS did not allow for accurate accounting), but caused MS to spend $ 1 billion on repairs and forced to increase the warranty by 1 more year.

Therefore I do not think that the case of PS3 can be considered a "problem".

Likewise, the case of X360 was due to an exceptional theme due to a rather absurd story that I do not think will ever repeat itself.

EDIT. To clarify what the respective problems were, there are two stories. One (Sony) used eco-friendly soldering to lower the cost of PS3 (some of its models). The other (MS) forced its engineers to cram the circuitry into a predesigned housing to avoid possible design criticisms that occurred with the first XBOX, that is, the container was designed first and then the content was put inside (although to me this story seems implausible or absurd).
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My understanding is X360 was rushed, and things were overlooked to meet tight deadlines so they could beat PS3 to launch
 
SatansReverence said:
A single pool of memory with variable speed depending on where data is stored is not even remotely the same as a split memory pool. It's not even semantics.
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While the hardware doesn't force the devs into storing and moving data around, the memory on XsX will require a considered approach by devs to avoid inadvertently running into performance bottlenecks.

Time sensitive development may just live with it, or simply limit themselves into the fast portion to avoid extra optimisation.

As with any situation, unnecessary complexity leads to less than ideal outcomes. Not sure what MS was thinking.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Finally, signed for 200Mbps download / 50Mbps upload fiber internet. This exact video took 12-fucking-hours to upload to youtube (only 4.6GB) (currently 16Mbps down/ 1Mbps up ADSL).



And finally got the email confirmation:

Thank you for signing up to Awasr's Fibrenet Home Broadband Service.

Next step: Our team will visit your premises to conduct a site survey to suggest the best way to get the fibre cable into your premises and where to place Awasr Router.

After this survey, our engineering team will visit to install the fibre cable into your premises and connect your service.

7NL.gif
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I've been sitting around with my 2Gbps connection for over a year hoping that Sony gives us PS Now or google gives us Stadia. But they all just ignore this region :messenger_crying:
 
X-Fighter said:
Why do you say these initial yields are normal? To what are you comparing?
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Why do you say they are not normal, a rumour ? from undiscoled sources by a reporter ?

LOL, until TSMC or AMD or Sony say otherwise, which they would do for market guidance, its crap.
 
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geordiemp said:
No, they are rumoured from rumours/.....LOL

Its just simple FUD. 7nm is an established process at TSMC and statistics dont suddenly get worse day before ps5 big show, funny that..

Parametric yield with be a normal distribution and well known for the chips.

Particulate will be a percentage and its die size.

Saying something drastically changed when things are so well engineered and designed is pure FUD, especially that just applies to 1 customer of that FAB, its laughable..

Cant belive someone has spread such crap, well I can actually.
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geordiemp said:
Why do you say they are not normal, a rumour ? from undiscoled sources by a reporter ?

LOL, until TSMC or AMD or Sony say otherwise, which they would do for market guidance, its crap.
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Your only argument is that it comes from an unknown source towards a journalist. That's a lot of times how journalism works. They got anonymous sources that tell them things.
 
Flippo said:
I think the X360 had also problems with the disc drive missing some shock cushions / pads. The disc could touch the laser resulting in a circular scratch on the disc making it unreadable. In the end the laser was also damaged, not reading any disc. I think they later said that you should not move the console (vertical to horizontal) while running.
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I had both problems on my X360
RROD and the disc drive issue.
In the past you could buy shock cushions to minimize the issue. But the best solution was to change the drive
 
SatansReverence said:
1%?

EL - OH - EL

Unless fat PS3s account for just 1% of total sales since YLOD is virtually inevitable for 100% of PS3 fat editions. Just like RROD was virtually a 100% chance for first revision 360s.
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You are really stretching. All electronics have 100% failure rate by this accord as even the most durable eventually will fail. Electronics not designed to last hundreds and thousands of years.
But failure rate is not a "lifetime rate" but usually yearly or warranty period fail rate. And fat PS3 had maybe not the best failure rate, but rather reasonable one (mine ps3 fat died after 3 years, mine ps4pro died after 2)
 
LiquidRex said:


Good design choice... Or 💩 🤔
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I like it. As the box designer, the system choices are out of your hands, so all you can do is work with what you're given (I am not offering an opinion on Xbox aesthetics here; just saying), and probably in a management approved style.

In that framework, I like the tact of focusing on the most unique part of each Xbox.

Personally, I'm a little more fond of more abstract/minimalist stuff. That all-blue PS2 NA box, still looks amazing.
 
X-Fighter said:
Your only argument is that it comes from an unknown source towards a journalist. That's a lot of times how journalism works. They got anonymous sources that tell them things.
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Yeah, journalism is great when it caters to our personal biases. Just like "journalists" decided to ignore ID Software Lead Engineers concerned about the Series S and went with the Fake Dev Gavin Stevens.

Suffice to say, this report may be correct in all accounts, they may have the best sources, but in the last 2 or 3 months it looks like every time Microsoft shits the bed, some sort of news detrimental to the PS5 are released. The show tomorrow and the timing of this "report" should raise some eyebrows, but seems like we're in candy land now.
 
-Arcadia- said:
I like it. As the box designer, the system choices are out of your hands, so all you can do is work with what you're given (I am not offering an opinion on Xbox aesthetics here; just saying), and probably in a management approved style.

In that framework, I like the tact of focusing on the most unique part of each Xbox.

Personally, I'm a little more fond of more abstract/minimalist stuff. That all-blue PS2 NA box, still looks amazing.
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Quite like the main Xbox package (I've given up trying to remember the various permutations).
The white one looks like I'm being sold a DAB radio from an upscale department store.
 
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