Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ass of Can Whooping said:
How many consoles have you built?
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
buenoblue said:
What you descibe is the boost clock in all but name. What I would like to know is what is the base clock that games like assassin's creed can call upon, because it cant use 10.23TF and full cpu clock for sustained lengths of time. If it could sony wouldn't call it variable.

Some people's grasp of what the series x 'fixed clocks' means is laughable. Thinking it doesn't deviate at all. Thinking that downclocking when not utilized is what sony means by variable clocks. This is what the series x and every gpu and cpu has bin doing for 15 years. What sony describes is different. Ps5 has a power budget and thermal accoustics budget, if it exeeds those then power, thus clocks are dialled back untill those budgets are not exceeded any more.

Like I said before I would like to know the numbers on these situations. If the ps5 was more powerful and smaller I could understand this approach, but it's bigger and less powerful and still can't run at its peak performance constanly. Series x is smaller, more powerful, just as quiet yet never has power budget or cooling budget adjust it's power output.

I am getting a ps5 not a series x as I stated but that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask questions about it's design and approach.
Click to expand...

Here is the big navi Stryx game clocks.



I am concerend why XSX is only RDNA1 5700 clock levels, but you wont like that. I am not really, I dont care.

Most people who use the word sustained have not a clue how CPU and GPU work over a frame and nobody has the energy to educate when the poster is not genuine..

Please go read a book, we are not interested in your ps5 concern.
 
Last edited:
IntentionalPun said:
Cerny never said that; he just said that the GPU can run at or near top at all times and so can the CPU. What statement are you even referring to?

The way you are describing the setup is just purposefully misleading. "A dev can choose to write code that makes it so the CPU or GPU never drop clocks" is just sort of.... an unlikely thing to occur. And it's not even likely true for the vast majority of games because a dev can't predict everything about their game and the conditions that will happen.
Click to expand...
You said the PS5 can't sustain it clocks. Of course it CAN but thats theoretical and not really how its meant to be used. They have the model SoC to code on, its entirely predictable and repeatable.

The devs have their power budget, frame time budget, memory budget, etc. They can choose how to use it.

Of course they COULD write code to keep the clocks locked at max, aka staying below the power budget. But there's no point really. But its not impossible.

Cerny said in the Eurogamer interview that the PS5 should hit 3.5 and 2.23 most of the time and can hit both at same time.
 
geordiemp said:
Normally no, until your read the AMD patent on shared L1 cache that came before infinity cache.

What is infinity cache exactly - is it just L3 - I dont think so.

Shared L1 gave a 22 % IPC gain in the paper, Big L3 helps bandwidth.

There are 2 technologies at play here, one buzzzword.
Click to expand...
wait... so IF Sony has shared cache... They'd receive a 22% IPC gain AND have high clock speed? :goog_unsure:
 
ToadMan said:
Take an Internal combustion engine car...

Xsex is a car with one gear - PS5 is a car with many gears.

Perhaps that clarifies things for you.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of car analogies but I look at it as a V6 and a V8 both outputting the same horsepower and top speed. The 6 was tuned better, the otherhas a bigger engine. The 6 is more agile and versatile, the 8 is cumbersome in the wrong areas. The 6 can corner etc...Obviously this is all about the system since the PS5 is physically larger ;)
 
kyliethicc said:
You said the PS5 can't sustain it clocks. Of course it CAN but thats theoretical and not really how its meant to be used. They have the model SoC to code on, its entirely predictable and repeatable.
Click to expand...

No of course it can not; unless you think "time" does not include the "times" that.. it can't. lol

There's nothing untrue or wrong about my statements.. the PS5 can not sustain full clocks at all times. For instance.. it can't.. whenever game code is running where.. well.. it can't.

And just because it's deterministic does not mean it's entirely predictable because games aren't predictable. It is deterministic based on workload, but unless you literally tested every possible combination of anything going on on screen, the workload itself is not fully predictable. Hence why games using dynamic resolution and framerates. And games can optimize for the PS5 setup to "most of the time" be at a certain power profile, but unless the game is incredible simple or not very dynamic they can't fully predict everything.

Cerny said in the Eurogamer interview that the PS5 should hit 3.5 and 2.23 most of the time and can hit both at same time.
Click to expand...

He says "at or near".. read it again. We really have no idea at this point how often either the GPU or CPU will be clocked at max; but it should be near most of the time as the power savings for a small downclock are good.
 
Last edited:
duhmetree said:
wait... so IF Sony has shared cache... They'd receive a 22% IPC gain AND have high clock speed? :goog_unsure:
Click to expand...

Thats what AMD says for shared L1 yes. Its an average IPC + 22 % For some BVH cals its up to 50 %.

I imagine with a big L3 its even more. And what is infinity cache really = AMD were vague on exactly what it is

Below is IPC per funcion increase just for shared L1 (would cost 4 mm2 for ps5). Does ps5 have it, nobody knows.

XSX unlikely as hotchips had L1 as private for each shader array, but could be to cover NDA ?

FobcRGM.png
 
Last edited:
Dibils2k said:


is this a FUDder or is this true.... if so thats extremely disappointing considering its at 1080p! (not disappointing in regards to general PS5 power, but their backward compatibility boost mode)
Click to expand...

The fanboys have found trdrop and are making fake shit :messenger_pensive: It was only a matter of time.
 
IntentionalPun said:
No of course it can not; unless you think "time" does not include the "times" that.. it can't. lol

There's nothing untrue or wrong about my statements.. the PS5 can not sustain full clocks at all times. For instance.. it can't.. whenever game code is running where.. well.. it can't.

And just because it's deterministic does not mean it's entirely predictable because games aren't predictable. It is deterministic based on workload, but unless you literally tested every possible combination of anything going on on screen, the workload itself is not fully predictable. Hence why games using dynamic resolution and framerates.
Click to expand...

I just meant it could sustain the clocks all the time in a given game. You are correct that it cannot do that in all games.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying. When you said "all the time" I read that as within a game's code, not as in all games ever.
 
Last edited:
kyliethicc said:
I just meant it could sustain the clocks all the time in a given game. You are correct that it cannot do that in all games.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying. When you said "all the time" I read that as within a game's code, not as in all games ever.
Click to expand...
It probably won't do it in any game because that would be an insane accomplishment for someone to optimize that much. They'd likely have to use all kinds of dynamic scaling based on what's on screen for instance or be a really simple predictable game.

We honestly don't know whether games will max both at the same time very often; Cernys statements are far too vague to really determine that because he always throws "near" into the equation and I honestly don't think he's really made statements about them being at max at the same time.

It's a great tech either way that lets PS5 push the hardware more than it could without the same tech. And it being workload deterministic is also a huge paradigm shift that is super interesting.
 
Sinthor said:
I can't wait to check this one out. Looks better every time they release more info. Then again, I'm a Dark Souls freak too....
Click to expand...


Always liked the look of it, but the smash, loot, upgrade gear gameplay loop has always appealed

Combat looks decent enough, its coop, defo on my list (pc), but not buy for full price, £25-30 and ill bite
 
GoPats1 said:
Also, here is the original Tweet they got the image from.

I have no idea what they're saying, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "PlaYsTaTiOn BaD XbOx GoOd"

Click to expand...

It says something like:
Microsoft are assholes, not only they pay Digital Foundry so they always say good things about Xbox and bad about Sony and pay Ubi so they only work on the Xbox versions of their games, they are also paying Sony Santa Monica so they optimize bad their games.

It's a troll. Although I don't know where those images come from.
 
FrankWza said:
I'm not a fan of car analogies but I look at it as a V6 and a V8 both outputting the same horsepower and top speed. The 6 was tuned better, the otherhas a bigger engine. The 6 is more agile and versatile, the 8 is cumbersome in the wrong areas. The 6 can corner etc...Obviously this is all about the system since the PS5 is physically larger ;)
Click to expand...

To be honest I don't like using analogies like that either - particularly when it's a simple topic in the first place.

But actually my reference to cars wasn't about the mechanics of a real car as such. It was to point out that a single geared car would be a relic and no one would question the benefits of a user selectable set of gears or even auto gearboxes selecting gears, based on desired performance.

As it happens though the PS5 power monitoring system is (in principle - I haven't seen a dev kit to say what it's like in practice) a way to match clocks to activity dynamically. An auto gearbox for the SoC in a sense.

How sophisticated it is remains to be seen. I am curious though about what algorithm is driving that system...
 
Dibils2k said:


is this a FUDder or is this true.... if so thats extremely disappointing considering its at 1080p! (not disappointing in regards to general PS5 power, but their backward compatibility boost mode)
Click to expand...


It is absolutely outrageous. If this is confirmed, if I were you, I would cancel the PS5 reservation, and if you already have it paid I would give it to your worst enemy, to piss him off. If not I could help you get rid of it, Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem and I are destroying all the PS5s sent to us by disgruntled users.

giphy.gif


Disgusting Sony. And what a disgusting Plus Collection.

giphy.gif
 
danielJackson said:
It is not 10.2 static or 10.2 variable with same power/thermal budget

It is 10.2 variable or less on static (let say 8-9 tlops) with same power budget
Click to expand...
Actually we don't know what would be TFlops number is Sony decided to go with static Tflops.
It may be the same 10.2 Tflops, that just mean that power budget would be more limiting factor, requiring devs to make a hard measures againts reaching the cap.

Recent Xbox One Watch Dog overheating bug clearly shows that "static" does not guarantee (and Cerny also mentioned it) that console can always perform at this static fixed frequency. And if XSX hit power draw above allowable threshold it will suffer even worse fate than playstation, because once it hit it, it will shutdown, even though it have "guaranteed" frequency.
 
Dibils2k said:


is this a FUDder or is this true.... if so thats extremely disappointing considering its at 1080p! (not disappointing in regards to general PS5 power, but their backward compatibility boost mode)
Click to expand...


you know its fud, and yet you drop it in and act all "oh Romeo, is it me that you love, my breasted heart beats for you, is it true that you yearn for me and all my love."


GTFO and GIVE ME A BREAK.
 
user1337 said:
...
I need the convenience of not having to hard wire my console to a router in a different room, while still being able to access as much of my broadband connection as possible. WiFi 6 will help with that and help minimise signals mixing with other WiFi 5 and below connections in my house and neighbours houses.
Click to expand...

Not really. It significantly improves the usage efficiency of the radio spectrum, but the improvements are limited when other Wi-Fi 5 or lower devices are on 1) your network or 2) your neighbours' network. This is why we need all devices, from small IoT to more data hungry devices to be all in with Wi-Fi 6.

Most think Wi-Fi 6 is primarily about speed. That's only part of it. Lower latency while at the same time supporting a higher number of devices on the same channel (your network, multiple neighbours' network) work best when ALL are Wi-Fi 6. When you have a Wi-Fi 5 device on the channel ... benefits are somewhat lost unfortunately.

It's not an issue right now due to the number of legacy devices, but in 5-10 years you really don't want that XSX or other Wi-Fi 5 devices using the same radio spectrum you are. If you are in some rural area, not a problem. But in a city with apartments, where you can see all the neighbours SSIDs as well as your own, and you cannot control what they use, it is.
 
Last edited:
Regarding the fixed vs variable clock speeds, I've found this extract of MS Hot chips conference talk where the decision to go for a fixed clock speed is explained interesting,



I can see the bit about having dynamic data being difficult to optimize for.

This bit here can also lead to some speculation. I'm not really into secret sauces but do you think the L3 caches being smaller are the only thing different?



What do you think geordiemp geordiemp ?
 
sircaw said:
you know its fud, and yet you drop it in and act all "oh Romeo, is it me that you love, my breasted heart beats for you, is it true that you yearn for me and all my love."


GTFO and GIVE ME A BREAK.
Click to expand...

Cancelling PS5, getting a Series S; didn't you hear? One year down the line, Series S will be a real next-gen machine!
 
Felessan said:
Actually we don't know what would be TFlops number is Sony decided to go with static Tflops.
It may be the same 10.2 Tflops, that just mean that power budget would be more limiting factor, requiring devs to make a hard measures againts reaching the cap.

Recent Xbox One Watch Dog overheating bug clearly shows that "static" does not guarantee (and Cerny also mentioned it) that console can always perform at this static fixed frequency. And if XSX hit power draw above allowable threshold it will suffer even worse fate than playstation, because once it hit it, it will shutdown, even though it have "guaranteed" frequency.
Click to expand...
STATIC TFLOPS :messenger_tears_of_joy: people please stop inventing things here.
 
onesvenus said:
Regarding the fixed vs variable clock speeds, I've found this extract of MS Hot chips conference talk where the decision to go for a fixed clock speed is explained interesting,



I can see the bit about having dynamic data being difficult to optimize for.

This bit here can also lead to some speculation. I'm not really into secret sauces but do you think the L3 caches being smaller are the only thing different?



What do you think geordiemp geordiemp ?
Click to expand...


Yes I have seen it, awkward questions and uncomfortable answers.

By the way, a common mis understanding.

The ps5 clock is not random, it does the same thing every time to instructions, its called deterministic, its not based on heat or based on who won the chepstow derby. So a known and 100 % repeatable factor is never an issue anyway....

As double die sized PC parts are over 2.3 Ghz, so who gives a shit but xbox fan concern trolls ?

BUT god how do all those PC games work lol :messenger_beaming: , Its been commented on allot of times, you got that from b3d.

Also race to idle is a power waste but thats a different discussion.
 
Last edited:
sircaw said:
you know its fud, and yet you drop it in and act all "oh Romeo, is it me that you love, my breasted heart beats for you, is it true that you yearn for me and all my love."


GTFO and GIVE ME A BREAK.
Click to expand...
i mean i didnt know.. but the image must have come from somewhere, the text in the tweet is not something that i cared about
 
FunkMiller said:
I'm just countering with this - because it's really all that's necessary:

Click to expand...

I watched this on my C9, and I think my eyes are melted. I cannot be more excited for this game! Demon's Souls started my love for Soulsbornekiro games, so this is like a dream come true being able to experience it again at this level of fidelity.
 
BGs said:
It is absolutely outrageous. If this is confirmed, if I were you, I would cancel the PS5 reservation, and if you already have it paid I would give it to your worst enemy, to piss him off. If not I could help you get rid of it, Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem and I are destroying all the PS5s sent to us by disgruntled users.

giphy.gif


Disgusting Sony. And what a disgusting Plus Collection.

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
if you are not curious or hopeful for Boost mode being good then good for you

to me i am hoping boost mode delivers good performance and uses the power of PS5.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Rust to get next gen patch for X S|X and PS5, previous gen version being discontinued
0
53
cormack12 replied
Sony unveils next-gen RGB mini-LED TV Tech | "OLED Killer?"
2 3
118
7K
dave_d replied
What are your top 3 (non-cross gen) PS5/XSX games this gen?
46
2K
ToneyJ replied
Rocksteady’s Next Batman Game Being Developed Using Unreal Engine 5. Targeting Cross-Gen Launch With PS5, Series S|X, and Next-Gen Consoles!
News Rumor Hype  2
89
4K
Feel Like I'm On 42 replied
Xbox Wants Out of the Console War - (IGN Next-Gen Console Watch Podcast)
2 3 4
194
12K
Viruz replied
Top Bottom