Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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duhmetree said:
I never claimed to be an expert but I have seen numerous people jump in, with a 'matter of fact' attitude, when simple 'researching' would prove their point wrong.
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The discussion regarding the IC is the same discussion as to whether it is a stacked die on the PS5 or not. If the die is not stacked there is no room for IC. If the die is stacked there is room for IC on the PS5.

Personally I think there is a chance the die is stacked - a lot of bread crumbs. I do not know that ofc but a man must keep some dreams alive!
 
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buenoblue said:
What you descibe is the boost clock in all but name. would like to know is what is the base clock that games like assassin's creed can call upon, because it cant use 10.23TF and full cpu clock for sustained lengths of time. If it could sony wouldn't call it variable.

Some people's grasp of what the series x 'fixed clocks' means is laughable. Thinking it doesn't deviate at all. Thinking that downclocking when not utilized is what sony means by variable clocks. This is what the series x and every gpu and cpu has bin doing for 15 years. What sony describes is different. Ps5 has a power budget and thermal accoustics budget, if it exeeds those then power, thus clocks are dialled back untill those budgets are not exceeded any more.

Like I said before I would like to know the numbers on these situations. If the ps5 was more powerful and smaller I could understand this approach, but it's bigger and less powerful and still can't run at its peak performance constanly. Series x is smaller, more powerful, just as quiet yet never has power budget or cooling budget adjust it's power output.

I am getting a ps5 not a series x as I stated but that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask questions about it's design and approach.
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Uh, no. Not really. The point of variable clocks it's efficiency and not just in the downside. It has been reported multitude of time by the developers it doesn't interfer in the hardware performance because it's deterministic, why this narrative continue to be used in the forum, it's out of my mind.
 
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Mark Cerny sees a time where developers will begin to optimise their game engines in a different way - to achieve optimal performance for the given power level. "Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win. "

This is one of reasons why Cerny went with variable clock, He has a vision. A vision where developers will optimise their codes base on power consumption and still get increased performance. Isn't that a good thing, when a game performs the same but consumes less power? I believe that in the future we might see games that looks CGI graphics but consumes same power as today's gpu.

Edit: adding source.
www.eurogamer.net

PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive

On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
 
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buenoblue said:
But surely running at 10.23 TF at all times if needed would be better? I don't get how varying clocks in a predictable manner could be better than the full 10.23 TF at all times.
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Take an Internal combustion engine car...

Xsex is a car with one gear - PS5 is a car with many gears.

Perhaps that clarifies things for you.
 
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Elog said:
The discussion regarding the IC is the same discussion as to whether it is a stacked die on the PS5 or not. If the die is not stacked there is no room for IC. If the die is stacked there is room for IC on the PS5.

Personally I think there is a chance the die is stacked - a lot of bread crumbs. I do not know that ofc but a man must keep some dreams alive!
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Some form of Shared Cache along with Cache Scrubbers. ( dont really understand Cache Scrubbers ) It fits the MO of what Cerny has been saying.

How it relates to 'Infinity Cache' is yet to be understood.

ToadMan said:
Take an Internal combustion engine car...

Xsex is car with one gear - PS5 is a car with many gears.

Perhaps that clarifies things for you.
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XSX - Hellcat Challenger
PS5 - Porsche Turbo
 
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All the DualSense impressions should prove to everybody that all this arguing about graphics gpu terflops clocks means nothing. Graphics are only part of the experience of games. The controller is being called a real next generation experience and something to choose PS5 to play 3rd party games on. It's that good and a differentiator.
 
buenoblue said:
But surely running at 10.23 TF at all times if needed would be better? I don't get how varying clocks in a predictable manner could be better than the full 10.23 TF at all times.
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No.

Consoles dont have infinite power and cooling capasity

It is not 10.2 static or 10.2 variable with same power/thermal budget

It is 10.2 variable or less on static (let say 8-9 tlops) with same power budget

Because they have their power and thermal limits, it is one or the another.

Even xbox x could have more theoretical Tflops with variable rate, but they chose the traditional route.

It is super simple so why it is hard to get, if you are The expert you say you are, and if you arent, then why repeat the same instead of believing wiser people? :messenger_savoring:
 
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nosseman said:
I guess it is AMD using the term Game clock and Boost clock and Sony saying that their number is almost always sustained and only down clocks very little and Sonys number is close to AMDs Boost clock.
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Console and PC hardware are very different. PS5 is continuously running it at 3.5 ghz and 2.23ghz. There is no game clock.
 
danielJackson said:
No.

Consoles dont have infinite power and cooling capasity

It is not 10.2 static or 10.2 variable with same power/thermal budget

It is 10.2 variable or less on static (let say 8-9 tlops) with same power budget

Because they have their power and thermal limits, it is one or the another.

Even xbox x could have more theoretical Tflops with variable rate, but they chose the traditional route.

It is super simple so why it is hard to get, if you are The expert you say you are, and if you arent, then why repeat the same instead of believing wiser people? :messenger_savoring:
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People think all XB1 and PS4 games used 1.3tf and 1.8tf. Cute.

That's why Cerney gave that remark to Digital Foundry about a console shutting down if it used all of it's available power simultaneously. And PS5 is better able to handle a situation like that. Get closer to it's theoretical limits than traditional fixed console design.
 
Dodkrake said:
Ok, shovelware was strong, but there are no Xbox exclusives. Remember that, I was addressing the claims of 20+ studios and Gears Tactics being a launch game (LOL)
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No-one can deny the Xbox Series X launch lineup is actual dogshit. There's no excusing what they are putting out at launch and Gears Tactics is hardly a system seller. I'm getting XSX at launch for a nice perf boost in last-gen games and then PS5 for some Demon's Souls.

I know it's become a meme at this point but I am confident that the "console-exclusive" games are coming soon™ on XSX. My investment will pay off.
 
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Dibils2k said:


is this a FUDder or is this true.... if so thats extremely disappointing considering its at 1080p! (not disappointing in regards to general PS5 power, but their backward compatibility boost mode)
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It's fake lol
 
Things are already being insufferable, I can't handle what's to come with this new leak that the PS5 SOC really does have some positive surprises, like unified L3 for the CPU and 64MB of Infinite Cache for the GPU.
This will be a long, long week.
 
Dibils2k said:


is this a FUDder or is this true.... if so thats extremely disappointing considering its at 1080p! (not disappointing in regards to general PS5 power, but their backward compatibility boost mode)
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I think it's FUD, probably the PS4 version running on PS4 with some framerate analysis overlays (showing bogus data) added. In the second screen the game is supposed to run at ~53fps, so it is running uncapped without v-sync. The dragon is moving rather fast to the side, because it is so large, yet I cannot see any tearing. With the assumation that the PS5 did not change the buffering strategie with the back-compatible version, I would say it is fake.
 
danielJackson said:
No.

Consoles dont have infinite power and cooling capasity

It is not 10.2 static or 10.2 variable with same power/thermal budget

It is 10.2 variable or less on static (let say 8-9 tlops) with same power budget

Because they have their power and thermal limits, it is one or the another.

Even xbox x could have more theoretical Tflops with variable rate, but they chose the traditional route.

It is super simple so why it is hard to get, if you are The expert you say you are, and if you arent, then why repeat the same instead of believing wiser people? :messenger_savoring:
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This is what I'm saying though. Surly with a few more CU's and less clocks so it could sustain 10.2 constanly would be betterthan 8-9 TF to 10.2 variable? Lol.

I get it. With the silicon they chose this is a way to get more performance our of it. I'm not debating that. What I'm saying is there was a different way of getting more power with more CU's at a steady lower clock. A la series x. I just think it's not the best design to have a variable clock even if deterministic.
 
buenoblue said:
This is what I'm saying though. Surly with a few more CU's and less clocks so it could sustain 10.2 constanly would be betterthan 8-9 TF to 10.2 variable? Lol.

I get it. With the silicon they chose this is a way to get more performance our of it. I'm not debating that. What I'm saying is there was a different way of getting more power with more CU's at a steady lower clock. A la series x. I just think it's not the best design to have a variable clock even if deterministic.
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How many consoles have you built?
 
GoPats1 said:
>posts a Tweet from someone named "XboxWins1"
>is this a FUDer
???
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4kqgme.jpg
 
kyliethicc said:
Of course it can if the dev wants it to.
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What are you talking about?

Devs can't choose the clock speed of anything on PS5. (outside of dev kit modes where they can lock clocks)

Or are you saying if they wrote a game that doesn't do anything to push either CPU/GPU that is their choice? lol
 
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IntentionalPun said:
What are you talking about?

Devs can't choose the clock speed of anything on PS5. (outside of dev kit modes where they can lock clocks)

Or are you saying if they wrote a game that doesn't do anything to push either CPU/GPU that is their choice? lol
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Its entirely predictable based on their code. They can see the clock at all times in their tools.

Plenty of game code won't push the power to the point where clocks would need to drop. (Bugsnax lol)

Cerny himself said the PS5 can run at full 3.5 and 2.23 at the same time in plenty of games.

And if it did drop, a dev could optimize their code to avoid that power spike IF THEY CARED TO.
 
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Dibils2k said:


is this a FUDder or is this true.... if so thats extremely disappointing considering its at 1080p! (not disappointing in regards to general PS5 power, but their backward compatibility boost mode)
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Also, here is the original Tweet they got the image from.

I have no idea what they're saying, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "PlaYsTaTiOn BaD XbOx GoOd"

 
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Jesus wept! We're back on the frequency and clocks argument again? If I have to go through another car analogy...

I definitely can't wait till the machines are released so people just get games to play. Something something developers...
 
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I love how unlike last gen, PS5 is matching XSX on resolutions and framerates since day 1. That's tells you everything you need to know about the 'marginal' power difference between the two.
 
kyliethicc said:
Its entirely predictable based on their code. They can see the clock at all times in their tools.

Plenty of game code won't push the power to the point where clocks would need to drop.

Cerny himself said the PS5 can run at full 3.5 and 2.23 at the same time in plenty of games.

And if it did drop, a dev could optimize their code to avoid that power spike IF THEY CARED TO.
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Cerny never said that; he just said that the GPU can run at or near top at all times and so can the CPU. What statement are you even referring to?

The way you are describing the setup is just purposefully misleading. "A dev can choose to write code that makes it so the CPU or GPU never drop clocks" is just sort of.... an unlikely thing to occur. And it's not even likely true for the vast majority of games because a dev can't predict everything about their game and the conditions that will happen.
 
RaySoft said:
Caches usually aren't shared between logic before you reach level 3.
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Normally no, until your read the AMD patent on shared L1 cache that came before infinity cache.

What is infinity cache exactly - is it just L3 - I dont think so.

Shared L1 gave a 22 % IPC gain in the paper, Big L3 helps bandwidth.

There are 2 technologies at play here, one buzzzword.
 
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