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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
JonkyDonk said:
Not always, GoW and TLOU2 both had downgrades compared to their demoes. They are still great looking games but they definitely didn't match their E3 demo exactly. There are other examples of this too, Uncharted 4 had that one teaser trailer that was far from the final game, the original TLOU demo was also quite different from retail. They are by no means the only examples of this in the industry, a lot of games don't live up to their early demoes, but Sony studios do have a history of this.
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Nah I disagree.
 
J

jasondefaoite

Member
Shmunter said:
Different situation, looked up vids of Division 2 running on PS5 prior to patch, fog intact. Post patch, fog missing. Conclusion, bug in patch.

Someone needs to try the game on PS4/pro post patch also to see if fog gone there too.
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I'm sure the DF crew will be on the phone to Massive to report bugs in the game. Oh wait, this is a bug on the PS5 version? Nevermind ....
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
LiquidRex said:
So has the Embracer deal been finalised, no chance Microsoft could legally make a counter offer now?
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If the deal is announced to public that means Gearbox already signed the contract lol
What MS can do is negotiate with Embracer Group if they want.
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Greggy said:
Then take the latest Halo infinite screenshots. Those are actually known to be in-game, unlike that CGI underwater cut-scene you posted.
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You want me to compare ingame screenshots of Halo with cutscene footage of Horizon? You think thats a fair comparison? And you believe that will make Halo win that comparison?

This is by far the most ridiculous argument I've had in this thread. I am bending over backwards cherry picking the best looking Xbox Series X footage and you all are like no, pick something that looks far worse.

And FFS, Horizon FW isnt CGi. Avowed was CGi. Fable was CGi. Perfct Dark was CGi. Halo wasnt. There is a difference between realtime cutscenes we have seen in the Horizon FW trailer and the CGi trailers MS had some trailer studios make just as commercials. Sony's tv ads for TLOU, Uncharted, GoW and Death Stranding are CGi created by CG studios.

And again, please feel free to post comparisons so we can discuss if MS does have cross gen or next gen games for the next two years that look better than what Sony is going to put out. Dont just bitch about my comparisons, go ahead post the gears comparison or Halo infinite gameplay reveals instead of asking me to. Surely you would want to make the argument yourself. Why are you asking me to make YOUR argument for you?

I feel like I am in some bizarro world where this slipstream engine trailer is somehow worse looking than the gameplay reveal, and people on forums have forgotten how to present arguments.

P.S I am going to reiterate the point of this comparison in the first place. Sony is going to be launching several great looking next gen games later this year. Some cross gen like Horizon, some next gen like Ratchet. With Xbox already losing some multiplatform comparisons and breaking even in most of them, they need exclusives of their own to shine among the barrage of great looking sony games to come. MS will have to compete with third party games that are not looking or performing drastically better than the PS5 versions and with their own AAA exclusives, only one of which is releasing this year; Halo. That is THE main reason why I picked Halo. Halo will be responsible for showing Xbox's power for at least the next year until 2022 or 2023 when Fable, Avowed and Hellblade 2 launch.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
BTW the pic in the site is a lie?
The guy was never 8 feets tall.

1642865-attack5ag.jpg
 
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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I hope the HzFW stuff is actually real time rendered in-engine but we don't actually know that.

The presentation contained cutscenes from that Kena game that weren't real-time rendered for instance. "Running on a PS5" doesn't mean real-time rendered.

However HzFW is going to be fucking gorgeous.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I love both systems and have been spending more time on my XSX then PS5 as of late but photo mode? Seriously this deserved a video?
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This forum's biggest Sony fans begged for it and claimed DF wouldn't make one because PS5 was going to outclass it. (although that was more in reference to PC, as at the time, I think only the PS5 vs PC video was out)

edit: Thing is it is just photo mode; my understanding is that AI and whatnot is disabled, and other systems in the game.
 
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J

JonkyDonk

Member
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I love both systems and have been spending more time on my XSX then PS5 as of late but photo mode? Seriously they deserved a video?
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I think a lot of people, including DF, have been frustrated that there hasn't been a clear and obvious advantge for XSX in games more often and they are looking to find that much hyped power gap; and this is certainly one way of showing on a frame graph that the spec sheets didn't lie afterall, even though it is academic and not applicable to actual gameplay experience.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
JonkyDonk said:
That's fine but the evidence is out there. DF did a video comparing the E3 demo and final game for TLOU2 and it's clearly apparent what cutbacks they made.
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That was a pathetic and incorrect video. John straight out did not know how to do some of the stuff in the final game. Read the comments, plenty of people called him out for his mistakes.

And I personally think, for example, the character models in the final game in custscenes looks just as good as the cutscene reveal trailers. The gameplay has all the same animations, effects, etc. It doesn't have to be 100% IDENTICAL to deliver what was marketed. The game changes over 2 years or so of dev. But Sony do not do the famous Ubisoft Watch Dogs or Division massive downgrade.

To say that Naughty Dog or Santa Monica or Guerrilla or Insomniac lied when they showed off their games vs the final product is false.
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
villentretenmerth said:
I have a hunch that the scalability of Playstation cross-gen exclusives will be significantly better than what we are seeing with third-parties. The Sony first party studios rarely disappoint when it comes to the stability and performance of their games.
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I said that in hopes that we see true next gen versions of games. I know Sony studios wont necessarily put out a 15 fps version of Horizon, but I almost wish that they did so we could have games that truly look next gen on this fancy new console that we bought. I dont see how Sony can make the PS4 version of Forbidden west look this good at 1080p without downgrading the shit out of it, and mostly likely downgrade the PS5 version as well in the process. I highly doubt they will be maintaining two different versions of the game. Unless another studio has been hired to downport Horizon FW for the PS4 the best they can with different assets.

As far as CD Project goes, yeah, I have no idea why that game is running at 15 fps and 720p on xbox one with those settings. It looks so blurry it seems like they are upscaling it from an internal resolution of 360p or 240p and yet they are still struggling to run it at 720p. GTAV a game two gens older looks and runs better on the xbox one. I think we just might be seeing a game designed from the ground up on next gen hardware and now they are struggling to backport it. Which tbh is fine with me this late in the gen. I just dont think they shouldve released the game on those consoles. IIRC, their first E3 demo was running on a 1080Ti at 1080p and 30 fps. thats an 11 tflops gpu. How they thought they would be able to get it to run at 1080p 30 fps on a 1.84 tflops PS4 gpu is beyond me.
 
J

JonkyDonk

Member
kyliethicc said:
That was a pathetic and incorrect video. John straight out did not know how to do some of the stuff in the final game. Read the comments, plenty of people called him out for his mistakes.

And I personally think, for example, the character models is the final game in custscenes looks just as good as the cutscene reveal trailers. The gameplay has all the same animations, effects, etc. It doesn't have to be 100% IDENTICAL to deliver what was marketed. The game changes over 2 years or so of dev. But Sony do not do the famous Ubisoft Watch Dogs or Division massive downgrade.

To say that Naughty Dog or Santa Monica or Guerrilla or Insomniac lied when they showed off their games vs the final product is false.
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I don't know dude it was pretty apparent to me, even without John's video, that there were noticable differences. The character models are similar (at least the main characters), but a lot of other details with lighting and animation do look different. It's not about any specific developer lying, it's just how games are always marketed. They make a prototype that shoots for the moon and then they have to compromise to make it work in the final game within budget.
 
assurdum

assurdum

Banned
JonkyDonk said:
I think a lot of people, including DF, have been frustrated that there hasn't been a clear and obvious advantge for XSX in games more often and they are looking to find that much hyped power gap; and this is certainly one way of showing on a frame graph that the spec sheets didn't lie afterall, even though it is academic and not applicable to actual gameplay experience.
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This benchmark shows just the GPU implications. Say there was a space to hit 60 fps at 1440p in series X it's a big mmm. Probably when CPU is more involved such advantage become meaningless and perfomance aren't enough good on series X hardware. It's an interesting video but their conclusions are the typical DF strawman.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
JonkyDonk said:
I think a lot of people, including DF, have been frustrated that there hasn't been a clear and obvious advantge for XSX in games more often and they are looking to find that much hyped power gap; and this is certainly one way of showing on a frame graph that the spec sheets didn't lie afterall, even though it is academic and not applicable to actual gameplay experience.
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But the points of his video just showed Series X has some bottlenecks that doesn't allow the GPU to be used.
His video basically shows what Cerny said in March last year.

I asked him about that.
And some people are saying that about the PC.

 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
JonkyDonk said:
I don't know dude it was pretty apparent to me, even without John's video, that there were noticable differences. The character models are similar (at least the main characters), but a lot of other details with lighting and animation do look different. It's not about any specific developer lying, it's just how games are always marketed. They make a prototype that shoots for the moon and then they have to compromise to make it work in the final game within budget.
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Sure but those minor differences do not qualify to me as them NOT delivering the visuals they marketed. Its like the retarded anger over the fucking puddles in Spider-man E3 demo vs game. Its fake controversy.
 
J

JonkyDonk

Member
kyliethicc said:
Sure but those minor differences do not qualify to me as them NOT delivering the visuals they marketed. Its like the retarded anger over the fucking puddles in Spider-man E3 demo vs game. Its fake controversy.
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I get it, people on the internet do lose their shit and overreact to these things. Games look great these days and there is no point getting angry about these things. But it is important to just acknowledge that video game marketing across the board is guilty of overpromising, and Sony is not exempt from it.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
JonkyDonk said:
I get it, people on the internet do lose their shit and overreact to these things. Games look great these days and there is no point getting angry about these things. But it is important to just acknowledge that video game marketing across the board is guilty of overpromising, and Sony is not exempt from it.
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Disagree about Sony.

Well, they do deserve blame for letting Sean Murray lie about No Man's Sky on their E3 stage, but they didn't publish that game.
 
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DarkMage619

DarkMage619

$MSFT
Greggy said:
Then take the latest Halo infinite screenshots. Those are actually known to be in-game, unlike that CGI underwater cut-scene you posted.
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The goal was the make fun of the Xbox to show how 'bad' it is. When Halo Infinite actually comes out expext some on the board to only show 'Craig' pictures even if they have to photoshop them on top of the actual game. It is what it is.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
IntentionalPun said:
I hope the HzFW stuff is actually real time rendered in-engine but we don't actually know that.

The presentation contained cutscenes from that Kena game that weren't real-time rendered for instance. "Running on a PS5" doesn't mean real-time rendered.

However HzFW is going to be fucking gorgeous.
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I think Alex reviewed the footage and found that while it was using cutscene quality assets and hero lighting, there were some LOD stuff that gave it away as being ingame. I agree that Running on PS5 doesnt mean its realtime, but it's definitely not CG like those shots in the kena trailer. Demon Souls trailer also had CG shots, but Horizon looks to be all in-engine. Pre-rendered in-engine like Hellblade 2? Maybe, but it looks far worse and almost a gen behind the Hellblade 2 prerendered trailer. The opening shots of the oceans in both game show a massive gulf in quality. One looks photorealistic, the other looks like a game.

Also, they showed off dozens of environments and the trailer was over 3 minutes long with way too many different animals, environments, assets to be just a CG trailer. My guess is that they are all realtime but touched up by hero lighting and cutscene quality character models like we see in most current gen games like TLOU2 and GoW. If anything they were using PS4 quality assets like the trees in the snowy mountains lifted straight out of Horizon Zero Dawn.

I really hope we dont see a downgrade, but I also wont be surprised if we do get one. It looks way better than Horizon Zero Dawn and I just dont see how the PS4 can pull off stuff like this.

5UIXs2F.gif


The PS4 GPU or even the CPU cant handle that many fish especially the way they disperse. And unless they have another studio downporting the PS5 version to PS4 hey will end up downgrading the PS5 version to save time.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
SlimySnake said:
Horizon looks to be all in-engine. Pre-rendered in-engine like Hellblade 2?
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I wasn't suggesting they weren't in engine; they just might be pre-rendered in engine.

That's what Kena cutscenes were.

Even if pre-rendered in engine you don't want your cut scenes to be so different from the game that it's all jarring. You push things far enough to where it's gorgeous but not so gorgeous that it makes the game look bad.

(although.. technically... pre-rendered is CG lol)
 
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J

JonkyDonk

Member
Lysandros said:
You should see the 'relief' experienced at resetera and beyond3d thanks to these 'academic' static images, it's a sight to behold. In any case, the intented effect is more than accomplished.
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As Richard said, MS want to see a return for their investment, and in the same way their fanboys who have invested a lot of their emotions and tied up their personality into this power advantage (as sad as that sounds) wanted to see a return for that investment!
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You guys and your conspiracy theory; it would be highly illegal for MS to be paying DF for their opinions.

People can be biased w/o being paid shills. Could just boil down to their affinity for PC and Xbox being more PC-like.. could boil down to MS inviting them to their offices (something Sony did for other YouTubers in Japan to try out PS5.)

DF is living rent free in like half this forum's heads either way.
 
J

JonkyDonk

Member
IntentionalPun said:
You guys and your conspiracy theory; it would be highly illegal for MS to be paying DF for their opinions.

People can be biased w/o being paid shills. Could just boil down to their affinity for PC and Xbox being more PC-like.. could boil down to MS inviting them to their offices (something Sony did for other YouTubers in Japan to try out PS5.)

DF is living rent free in like half this forum's heads either way.
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What? There is no conspiracy theory. I have never ever said that anyone is paying DF for anything. I criticise them sometimes for some of their conclusions and how they present things but I don't think for a second that they are lying about the data or anything like that. Maybe some people think that way but I don't.

In that last post I'm just making fun of fanboys who are so desperate to overstate this small power difference between two consoles that are otherwise identical in most real performance cases.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
IntentionalPun said:
You guys and your conspiracy theory; it would be highly illegal for MS to be paying DF for their opinions.

People can be biased w/o being paid shills. Could just boil down to their affinity for PC and Xbox being more PC-like.. could boil down to MS inviting them to their offices (something Sony did for other YouTubers in Japan to try out PS5.)

DF is living rent free in like half this forum's heads either way.
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I shared with Mod of War: Remastered Mod of War: Remastered how Xbox went out of their way to "recruit" Richard and DF to be pro xbox giving them exclusives to drive their clicks

While I do not believe MS pays directly for these videos DF will in any way they can find a way shine a little more light onto Xbox.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man this control video is absolutely fantastic. This is why no matter how much I dislike Alex, it's clear that this guy is good at his job. What a genius way to measure RT performance by looking at Photo mode which is uncapped. I wouldnt have even thought of that.



Some very interesting results:

  • On average 16% gain in FPS which is almost on par with the 18% Tflops difference.
  • Some sections like the infamous corridor of doom, the xbox only has a 1 fps advantage. 33 vs 32.
  • Others the fps advantage on Xbox is 12 fps. 58 vs 46.
  • This is on par with 2070 Super settings though the reflection resolution on PC is only half that of console versions.
  • A 1080p 60 fps version might be possible here because the xbox spends a lot of time in the 50s and the PS5 spends a lot of time in the mid 40s. Dropping resolution to 1080p should free up at least 40% of the GPU which should let them increase the Framerate by 40%.
I dont if it was in this thread or some other thread, but I was talking about why remedy couldnt have increased settings on the xbox one. And it's clear now that there is definitely rendering budget for it. Perhaps not in every shot but its there.
 
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Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
SlimySnake said:
Man this control video is absolutely fantastic. This is why no matter how much I dislike Alex, it's clear that this guy is good at his job. What a genius way to measure RT performance by looking at Photo mode which is uncapped. I wouldnt have even thought of that.



Some very interesting results:

  • On average 16% gain in FPS which is almost on par with the 18% Tflops difference.
  • Some sections like the infamous corridor of doom, the xbox only has a 1 fps advantage. 33 vs 32.
  • Others the fps advantage on Xbox is 12 fps. 58 vs 46.
  • This is on par with 2070 Super settings though the reflection resolution on PC is only half that of console versions.
  • A 1080p 60 fps version might be possible here because the xbox spends a lot of time in the 50s and the PS5 spends a lot of time in the mid 40s. Dropping resolution to 1080p should free up at least 40% of the GPU which should let them increase the Framerate by 40%.
I dont if it was in this thread or some other thread, but I was talking about why remedy couldnt have increased settings on the xbox one. And it's clear now that there is definitely rendering budget for it. Perhaps not in every shot but its there.
Click to expand...

In photo mode? Who the hell plays a game in photo mode? If this is what DF needs to do to make XSX have the edge, it's just ridiculous.
 
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