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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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It totally can, look at DLSS 1.9 that was running on regular compute units. Sure, it did not look as good as DLSS 2.0, but Turing couldn't do INT8/INT4 like RDNA2 can (on compute units that is).

Will it be as performant as having dedicated Tensor cores? No. Will it still provide a substantial performance boost? Yes.

DLSS is on PC, where there don't exist hardware limitations as it's an open platform.

When I talk about performance, I'm thinking more pragmatically as it pertains to the closed console hardware.

DL-based computation, even inference models are themselves inherently computationally intensive. So while yes, running a DL-based model for Super-Resolution on your Next-Gen game to boost the resolution to 4k from a lower internal rendering res, will save you performance when compared to rendering your game natively in 4K, the DL model itself might not prove worth the performance cost when there are cheaper temporal upsampling methods available to do the same job but significantly cheaper.

As such, on console, you run into the dilemma where for example you can be faced with the following three choices:

A) Render internally at 1080p with medium graphics settings --> use FSR to boost to 4k ---- cost 10ms
B) Render internally at 1080p with high graphics settings --> use Temporal Upsampling to boost to 4k --- cost 10ms
C) Render internally at 1600p with medium to high graphics settings ---> use Temporal Upsampling to boost to 4k --- cost 10ms

In all three cases above, it's not a totally obvious given which will provide the best IQ and/or overall graphical presentation.

In which, case, while DL-based Super Resolution on console hardware might indeed be fast enough to do in realtime, it still may not be cheap enough practically to warrant switching to it over existing methods for resolving your game at a higher overall IQ and visual quality.
 
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dcmk7

Banned
100% this. I thought the video showed a fun game. It didn't look amazing but I don't think Halo was ever an amazing looking game like @Riky said. The funny thing about the 'Craig' memes was that it was a .2 sec snippet of the video that was blown out of proportion. Next month is e3. If the game looks the same or worse then people can complain. I'm willing to let the game come out before trashing it.

Actually the funny thing about the Craig meme.. Is how it took over the internet, to the point that the studio needed to delay the game by a year despite it being finished and having marketing contracts in place.. I mean still to this day it triggers so many people now that by posting the image here usually results in a ban.

That's the actual humourous thing.

Me, personally, it looked ok - not great, but it looked like gameplay was well intact. Bummed by the delay.

Should have at least released it for last gen consoles at that time but delayed the XSX version
 
Should have at least released it for last gen consoles at that time but delayed the XSX version

I think they were planning on it being a technical showcase for the XSX which is why they didn't do that. They really wanted the game to be well received by critics and releasing a last gen looking version wouldn't be good for them.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I don't know, multiplying
Not gonna lie, I swear some folks with info were trolling.

Some said there were gonna be mic drop moments, lol.
But they are sharing the progress, just recently they postet the ultra wide pictures and they looked just marginally better. Is it going to be shit game? No I don't think ever anyone said that, but flagship one? Does not seems to be. But hey it's GamePass right? Well there are games which I wanted to be on GP, like VILLAGE
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Actually the funny thing about the Craig meme.. Is how it took over the internet, to the point that the studio needed to delay the game by a year despite it being finished and having marketing contracts in place.. I mean still to this day it triggers so many people now that by posting the image here usually results in a ban.

That's the actual humourous thing.

Me, personally, it looked ok - not great, but it looked like gameplay was well intact. Bummed by the delay.

Should have at least released it for last gen consoles at that time but delayed the XSX version
Yeah it wasnt bad...but I agree they should have just released it for XBO vs trying to call it next gen. Then show a proper next gen version later.

Honestly thats MS in a nutshell right now....straddling the generations.
I don't know, multiplying

But they are sharing the progress, just recently they postet the ultra wide pictures and they looked just marginally better. Is it going to be shit game? No I don't think ever anyone said that, but flagship one? Does not seems to be. But hey it's GamePass right? Well there are games which I wanted to be on GP, like VILLAGE
It does look better. And look forward to at least trying it. I have to admit Halo just isnt my thing. I'm more State of Decay, Recore, Ori, Fable, Crackdown, etc. Also looking forward to HB 2.
 

LucidFlux

Member
It's more open world than any other Halo and several times larger, 4k 60fps and 120fps multiplayer on top, who else is offering that?

The original creators of Halo of course! Since last December Bungie has been offering Destiny 2 at 4k60fps multiplayer pve with 120fps pvp on both Series X and PS5. So targeting even more platforms than Reach, yet Destiny 2 still looks better than what we've seen from Reach...
 

Jacir

Member
Interesting hiring application from Sony "We seek an engineer to develop compression and I/O-focused technologies for a wide range of games and internal systems."

https://boards.greenhouse.io/sonyinteractiveentertainmentplaystation/jobs/3153385

3fc1820e7a2aeddc7048b889e708d897.png
Why doesn't Sony just hire Mark Cerny? 😅
 
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keram

Member
Again this is not a general thread, it is console tech. Reply banned for 1 month
Console sales Q1 2021: Switch sell-through increases year-on-year, PS5 outsells Xbox Series X|S 2 to 1

Both Sony and Microsoft's new consoles are suffering from supply constraints and unpredictable availability. These conditions are expected to continue for the rest of 2021 as competition for components remains high, making it challenging for many CE companies to increase production. Under these conditions, both versions of PlayStation 5 combined outsold both versions of Xbox Series consoles by more than 2 to 1.

Switch: 5,86 (m)
PS5: 2,83 (m)
Series S|X: 1,31 (m)
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Really love the style of the new Housemarque interview video, little bit of acting that made me smile. and Finland is so beautiful!!

Hoping this don't earn me a reply ban for going off subject??

I think it will. unless this video is tech related?
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The AMD patent describes something only loosely "DLSS like".. they are using ML on single frame.

Really need to wait and see, but it's interesting how different it sounds from that patent.
 
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Actually the funny thing about the Craig meme.. Is how it took over the internet, to the point that the studio needed to delay the game by a year despite it being finished and having marketing contracts in place.. I mean still to this day it triggers so many people now that by posting the image here usually results in a ban.

That's the actual humourous thing.

Me, personally, it looked ok - not great, but it looked like gameplay was well intact. Bummed by the delay.

Should have at least released it for last gen consoles at that time but delayed the XSX version
Yeah a .2 sec snippet of a video was blown out of proportion. I'm glad 343i will rework the game. I haven't noticed anyone getting banned over the image. Several people changed their avatars over the images. It seemed to bring far more joy to people's lives than triggering them. I'm good with the delay if the overall game is better. Add in the RT and make sure the framerate is locked. MS needs as many quality games as they can get.

Most 120fps 3rd party games run better om ps5 and there’s a bunch of 4k 60 games on ps5.
I'd like to see this list. Last time I checked even the XSS had more games at 120 fps.
 
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Astral Dog

Member
Anotherone.gif - how many times. We are not joking. Another month away.
Random thought:
Looking at all console warring in other threads today, it reminded me why this generation is so intriguing. Why so many fans arguing each other what plastic box is best to play wich games all day???

last time we had both Xbox ONE and Wii U, weak competition to the amazing PS4, and this gen everyone learned from their mistakes and is thriving, from Switch to PS5 to GamePass and Series X, every company has compelling reasons why we should invest our precious cash into their ecosystem, there is never been so many good options for gamers imo. Yet it seems like many gamers keep asking for one company to dominate the others, to have this undisputed king at the top,but that may not happen this time (unless there is a big change to the market) as all big companies are balancing each other.
 
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Random thought:
Looking at all console warring in other threads today, it reminded me why this generation is so intriguing. Why so many fans arguing each other what plastic box is best to play wich games all day???

last time we had both Xbox ONE and Wii U, weak competition to the amazing PS4, and this gen everyone learned from their mistakes and is thriving, from Switch to PS5 to GamePass and Series X, every company has compelling reasons why we should invest our precious cash into their ecosystem, there is never been so many good options for gamers imo. Yet it seems like many gamers keep asking for one company to dominate the others, to have this undisputed king at the top,but that may not happen this time (unless there is a big change to the market) as all big companies are balancing each other.
200.gif
 
Random thought:
Looking at all console warring in other threads today, it reminded me why this generation is so intriguing. Why so many fans arguing each other what plastic box is best to play wich games all day???

last time we had both Xbox ONE and Wii U, weak competition to the amazing PS4, and this gen everyone learned from their mistakes and is thriving, from Switch to PS5 to GamePass and Series X, every company has compelling reasons why we should invest our precious cash into their ecosystem, there is never been so many good options for gamers imo. Yet it seems like many gamers keep asking for one company to dominate the others, to have this undisputed king at the top,but that may not happen this time (unless there is a big change to the market) as all big companies are balancing each other.
I'm personally waiting for BIG DADDY TENCENT to make the ultimate console and undercut the entire market on price through forced labor. I want the ultimate spying console.

Achievement unlocked: We know you peed in the shower...
 

Loope

Member
I think they were planning on it being a technical showcase for the XSX which is why they didn't do that. They really wanted the game to be well received by critics and releasing a last gen looking version wouldn't be good for them.
It's impossible that someone looked at it and thought: This is going to be a technical showcase. Has any Halo ever been a technical showcase, either way? I never thought of Halo as games with huge presentation but more about the gameplay.
 
It's impossible that someone looked at it and thought: This is going to be a technical showcase. Has any Halo ever been a technical showcase, either way? I never thought of Halo as games with huge presentation but more about the gameplay.

I believe it started with the Slipspace engine demo.



Now who the heck looked at the Infinite gameplay demo and thought it looked amazing enough to show?

I have no idea. But clearly someone thought it was good enough to show off with a next gen console.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
I believe it started with the Slipspace engine demo.



Now who the heck looked at the Infinite gameplay demo and thought it looked amazing enough to show?

I have no idea. But clearly someone thought it was good enough to show off with a next gen console.

So what was the deal with this slip space engine? If it could get them anywhere even CLOSE to what this demo video showed.....why wouldn't they use it? I see how people were so disappointed with what was shown last year, after this video had been released. I mean, this video made Halo look comparable to the new Horizon Forbidden West trailer...and yet what was actually show was...while not bad at all...definitely not THAT level.
 
So what was the deal with this slip space engine? If it could get them anywhere even CLOSE to what this demo video showed.....why wouldn't they use it? I see how people were so disappointed with what was shown last year, after this video had been released. I mean, this video made Halo look comparable to the new Horizon Forbidden West trailer...and yet what was actually show was...while not bad at all...definitely not THAT level.

I'm guessing back then they didn't have the actual hardware. So they made the demo based on the target specifications. Once they got their hands on the hardware they made changes so it would run on it.
 

elliot5

Member
So what was the deal with this slip space engine? If it could get them anywhere even CLOSE to what this demo video showed.....why wouldn't they use it? I see how people were so disappointed with what was shown last year, after this video had been released. I mean, this video made Halo look comparable to the new Horizon Forbidden West trailer...and yet what was actually show was...while not bad at all...definitely not THAT level.
In engine trailers are just representative of the engine's capabilities. When it comes to actually shipping a product, especially on older hardware, changes have to be made.

Like, Unreal Engine 5's trailer is visually striking, but do not expect every old game to look and run like that. This has always been the case for in-engine trailers. I would expect the same 'downgrade' from the Hellblade II unreal engine trailer vs the final product.

The cinematic cutscenes in Infinite so far look pretty similar to the Slipspace trailer (at times) - it's just the gameplay segments in the open world that are 'downgraded'.
 

ArcaneNLSC

Member
So what was the deal with this slip space engine? If it could get them anywhere even CLOSE to what this demo video showed.....why wouldn't they use it? I see how people were so disappointed with what was shown last year, after this video had been released. I mean, this video made Halo look comparable to the new Horizon Forbidden West trailer...and yet what was actually show was...while not bad at all...definitely not THAT level.

What people are forgetting is it wasn't just a visual "downgrade" from the teaser trailer from 2018 it was also the lack of polish in animations, textures physics/destruction. Let's not also forget what they claimed after a few weeks of questioning what system it was demo played on was apparently a mid range work PC that wasn't designed for gaming but basic work needs. So failure to show it on the XSX or high end gaming PC was also a misstep on their part. To put it in to contrast with the 2016 live gameplay demo of God Of War how polished and visually great that looked it stunned us all. Hell even the Spider-Man game too it was a failure of a presentation to get that wow gotcha moment not some 5 minute put together in the last minute because you overslept the day of your presentation. For what is supposed to be their biggest IP and was aiming to be the system seller given it was their main launch title and really was to be their only real 1st party game for at least a year they took no pride in it or treated it so it was more left out to die.

God of War wasn't even trying to sell a new system as the PS4 was already established at this point whereas XBOX needed this to shine as Halo's franchise had been on the decline, new hardware with new possibilities and to try and re surge after a poor XBOX One launch.
 
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MastaKiiLA

Member
So what was the deal with this slip space engine? If it could get them anywhere even CLOSE to what this demo video showed.....why wouldn't they use it? I see how people were so disappointed with what was shown last year, after this video had been released. I mean, this video made Halo look comparable to the new Horizon Forbidden West trailer...and yet what was actually show was...while not bad at all...definitely not THAT level.
Looking at how little was ready for everything else, they had nothing else to show. Showing a bunch of CG trailers and teasers, or retreading the last Halo teaser wasn't going to cut it. Sony was going to bring realtime stuff like Miles in their show, so I think this was the call they had to make. My other assumption is that they didn't have a new teaser queued up, in the event that the gameplay demo wasn't ready, so they were forced to show what they had. Forza and Everwild would've been the only "realtime" showcases they would've had otherwise. Forza says in-engine, but that's a huge question mark with regards to fidelity, and Everwild is a big old question mark, given they supposedly don't even know what the game is supposed to be yet.
 

thewire

Member

Yeah a .2 sec snippet of a video was blown out of proportion. I'm glad 343i will rework the game. I haven't noticed anyone getting banned over the image. Several people changed their avatars over the images. It seemed to bring far more joy to people's lives than triggering them. I'm good with the delay if the overall game is better. Add in the RT and make sure the framerate is locked. MS needs as many quality games as they can get.


I'd like to see this list. Last time I checked even the XSS had more games at 120 fps.
The list of the same 3rd party next gen games that are 120fps on both consoles, the majority perform better on ps5 like cod, crash, etc. The ps5 is better at handling lower latency tasks which is required for 120fps, the series consoles has more 120fps games cause of the better BC implementation.
 

thewire

Member
So what was the deal with this slip space engine? If it could get them anywhere even CLOSE to what this demo video showed.....why wouldn't they use it? I see how people were so disappointed with what was shown last year, after this video had been released. I mean, this video made Halo look comparable to the new Horizon Forbidden West trailer...and yet what was actually show was...while not bad at all...definitely not THAT level.
I think it was revealed that they paid some company to make the both the e3 2018 - 2019 videos for halo, the game didn’t look like that at all during either stages of development.
 
Eh, dude you're kidding right? I'm talking about atmosphere of the planet, the wind, the global weather, the volumetric fog, the movement of foliage, etc. The planet looks dead. These are nothing to do with light. Light doesn't moves objects. No, the lighting is not the biggest issue with the game, that lighting excuse is a lame excuse came up by Alex Bugaga. That game wasn't even look like a playable demo for the big event, it looks like one of the prototype created during pre-production.
I'm not gonna discuss this and derail thread anymore before i get warned by mods.

Lighting also can fix awful pop-ins in Halo Infinite, haven't you heard that? Alex Bugaga. LOL
 
Of course. Without BC FPS boost games Xseries has 27 120fps, PS5 has 13 i think
It's so weird to add conditionals instead of just acknowledging reality. Why not say 'ignoring the Xbox, the PS5 is the most technically advanced console on the market!' Also If people are going to knock the XSS, in many cases unfairly, might as well celebrate it when it can do things the more expensive PS5 cannot. 120fps is a current gen feature. Xbox appears to have more games running at this framerate. Full stop. Just like the PS5 having a faster SSD. It is what it is.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
If AMD's new method requires dedicated hardware, e.g. Tensor cores, then sure it will never come to the PS5/XSXS consoles.

If it's purely done in software via GPU compute, then it will definitely be used on consoles or a derivative developed by the game developers themselves. Devs don't need to wait for AMD, they can develop their own models to do it in software.

The real question is, can it be done in a way that provides a sufficient enough performance boost? I personally don't think so.

Non-DL based temporal upsampling techniques will only get better and provide a much faster alternative on current consoles.
Still waiting, any day now:

xbox-image-7607.jpg


I kind of think it's bullshit, but what do I know.
 
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It's so weird to add conditionals instead of just acknowledging reality. Why not say 'ignoring the Xbox, the PS5 is the most technically advanced console on the market!' Also If people are going to knock the XSS, in many cases unfairly, might as well celebrate it when it can do things the more expensive PS5 cannot. 120fps is a current gen feature. Xbox appears to have more games running at this framerate. Full stop. Just like the PS5 having a faster SSD. It is what it is.

I count games which were in cross-gen development or it received a nex-gen patch ( with 120fps mode, like THPS 1+2 ) for Xseries/PS5. If you want to count backward compatibility games to fill the list, be my guess
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I don't think they would have sacrificed silicon space if it didn't do anything. Reminds me of the I/O complex in the PS5.

I guess the only thing you can do is just wait and see how the games will use it.
But you know you can see it (on PS5), or at least I didn't saw anything which would be outlined as "ML block". It would be just RDNA 2 stuff, which then, it's RDNA 2 anyway...
 
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