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[FranXico]

Can we get something like this on next gen consoles??

Sure. In cutscenes.

 

[Fake]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but apparently the Official Playstation Forums are shutting down on Feb 27th.

Source: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/community.topic.html/announcement_commun-zRTI/

I'm not going to be one of those people and say we're getting PS5 news on the 27th, but I'm wondering why shut down your own community forum? Is it because they want to fully focus on social media?

Maybe because the lack of PS5 news and console wars could push this decision.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Do you believe in Osiris numbers as well, because his sources have PS5 higher specs whereas your sources (including your Sony source) have the PS5 lower?

My numbers are different from his slightly as even yet today I still believe the XsX will be more powerful overall but they will be super close.

 

[HawarMiran]

Why do people discard the picture of the japanese website with the ps5 icon?

 

[Gudji]

Why do people discard the picture of the japanese website with the ps5 icon?

Because it's fake.

 

[FranXico]

Why do people discard the picture of the japanese website with the ps5 icon?

Gavin Stevens show our friend here the icon you made...

 

[M-V2]

Sure. In cutscenes.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Gavin Stevens show our friend here the icon you made...

I didn't make it though, this is legit, my friends uncle who works for Nintendo who has a Sony tattoo on his foot told me. Scouts honour.

 

[KAL2006]

With all due respect, there isn't a lot of context to Heisenberg, Osiris, Klee or even Jason's comments. Let alone folks like Tommy Fisher or CameFromFuturesPast, who seemed to be impostors if anything. We don't know what dev kits and spec sheets they were looking at (or their sources were looking at) when they made those posts. We don't know how trustworthy their sources are, or if those sources are still relevant/pertinent.

Take for example Jason's "Google 10.7" comment. We already know that Stadia is GCN, but he never claimed if the 10.7 was just flush (implying something like Moore's Law) or if it were based on architectural specifications. Because guess what? 10.7 GCN gets you roughly 8.025TF Navi, and guess when Sony made a reference to 8TF? Back when they were talking about the amount of processing power you'd need at minimum for native 4K60 gaming. That comment was made likely some time around PS4 Pro's launch IIRC.

This is what I mean when I say some of these insiders have very little context with their statements. It isn't the only example, either. I remember another insider making a statement to the effect of XSX having around 11TF Navi, and this was after the APU die shot went up and tech channel experts had estimated the die size to a little over 400mm2. I asked them at the time of the comment why would the XSX, at a specification of possibly 56CUs, clock its GPU well below the minimum of the sweetspot of 1.7GHz-1.8GHz, to get "just" 11? Because that would mean the GPU clocked @ 1545. Which just made zero sense for an APU of that size. You can probably already guess but said individual was never able to answer that particular question xD.

It honestly perplexes me how quickly people will run with some of the insider claims without actually taking a second and thinking of the context or probability into the claims. This isn't me saying "don't listen to insiders"; they are very much still worth listening to. But you have to weigh it and do so with a dash of salt because not everything will turn out to be true or even close to true. And as someone who likes to do their own research into possibilities, probabilities, existing data and trends etc., that probably makes me less suspectible to believing every single thing an insider claims.

OTOH, I do have to question why everyone who is doubtful of anyone not 100% buying stock into simply insiders jumps off with the Github leak. Can't speak too much for others (tho I'd assume the following's true for many of them, as well), but the Github leak hasn't been at the forefront of my own factors into PS5 speculation. It's a neat reference, but that's about it. Actually, it's been the persistent GPU benchmark datamines which have been of more pertinence, and it just happens that parts of the Github leak agree with them. It just so happens, as well, that the V-design PS5 kit fits circumstantially with the GPU benchmarks as well; you can infer a GPU clocked @2GHz is drawing a lot of heat and that V-design PS5 dev kit fits would be very suitable for cooling such a GPU. The GPU benchmarks have been creating a long-term pattern and that's a data point worth taking into consideration.

Let me get back to the insiders, tho. Speaking of lack of context, another claim by many of them is that XSX's dev kits were running behind schedule relative PS5's, aka PS5 had dev kits out quite earlier. I think it was sometime in November but we had gotten some type of word about XSX devkits just getting shipped? So, the insiders were basically claiming PS5 performance being ahead, but if developers had XSX devkits further behind in steppings or didn't even have XSX devkits at all, would that be assumed? Some of the comments, though, made it seem like XSX devkits were already mature and in dev hands at the time of those early claims. I even noticed contradictions going on from some insiders even on that note, so it really does beg the question of what was their context.

I've seen some reference target spec sheets as a way of making up for that (I know Jason has done such; maybe not to "make up" for earlier claims implying dev kits being out when they weren't, but he did say something about looking at target spec sheets IIRC), but I've always found the timing of some insiders going back and forth between going off the dev kits and the target spec sheets as almost intentionally confusing. And come to think of it, when is the last time any insiders have actually seen up-to-date dev kit performance for either system, or their sources for that matter? Some of the claims put out earlier date very far back, since before E3 2019 in fact. If some have tried telling people to disregard a leak with a chip tested in June 2019, how are their claims for supposed next-gen performance supposed to be taken at face value when they were based on things predating that year's E3? If one source is questionable due to timing, then should not the other be as well?

And FWIW, again the persistent GPU benchmarks that have been found since that leak seem to be more recent as well. Not SUPER recent but, just as an example, Oberon stepping E0 (I think) is the one that fixed a silicon bug in the memory controller, allowing for more memory bandwidth.

I'm not saying one source is "better" than the other, but I can say personally, that at least things like the GPU benchmarks provide a timeline, they have relevance with one another, and have been persistent and provide somewhat more context, which increases their pertinence. Some of the Youtubers a few folks want to write off, they actually have a lot of technical knowledge, and understanding of the production process, fab process, how orders for fabbing works, and understanding of the performance potential of various architectures including, yes, Zen and Navi. Some of them also have a focus on the tech market as a whole, especially with particular companies like AMD and Intel, their product lines etc. and even if they don't focus particularly on gaming, when they DO talk about the next-gen systems they tend to utilize that knowledge into their discussion of various rumors or data that comes about.

IMO, a healthy mix of taking the various sources into account is the best approach, because none of them are going to be 100% correct. And, yes, for certain areas I think some carry more weight than others. For example at the moment I feel the benchmark datamines carry more weight than insiders "claiming" certain specs, because one is hard data with a pattern and timeline to it while the other are speculation from messengers relying on sources that can run the gamut of literally anything.

People being honest in their own speculation who are wiling to shift through the different sources (leaks, insiders, benchmarks, tech analyzer speculation, tech articles etc.) and see what parts of what they say are most probable and line up in agreement with each other the most within a sensible hierarchy, are going to be closer to guessing what's likely with these system versus those who cling absolutely to only one such source, to the point of infallibility. Hopefully people put some of those more troublesome emotions aside and try being more reasonable in what they speculate; it's alright to have a preference, but don't let it turn you into making unreasonable speculations especially if those lead into a next-gen console war pissing contest.

Great post

People need to speculate without the fanboy drivel and trying to one up eachother.

I personally am a PlayStation guy and honestly I won't be happy if PlayStation is 3TF weaker than Series X. I would prefer both systems to be close in power.

However looking at rumours, GitHub leak, Series X die screen shot, Series X PC Tower Design, rumour of PS5 originally being a 2019 release, Sony being very hush about specs at this stage, and finally the rumour of $450 BOM being higher than Sony wanted it to be makes me think they are going for a 8TF/9TF system targeting $400, but may have to up the price to $450/500 depending on Series X price, however still chance of Sony eating the cost and going $400.

As a PlayStation fan in isolation the PS5 being 8TF/9TF with SSD, next gen CPU makes me excited but on the flip side if Series X is 25 to 30 percent more powerful I will be a bit disappointed with PS5.

I'm going to take a wait and see approach with next gen systems if Series X is more powerful I may wait it out and see which system I will buy, I do prefer Sony first party but I may have access to play those games from family so could potentially switch to Xbox. I'm not exactly loyal fan myself I went from SNES to PS1 to PS2 to 360 to PS3 Slim to PS4. I have more history with PS but my buying history has shown im willing to switch

 

[DrDamn]

Why do people discard the picture of the japanese website with the ps5 icon?

It doesn't even like up properly with the other icons for a start.

 

[Insane Metal]

I didn't make it though, this is legit, my friends uncle who works for Nintendo who has a Sony tattoo on his foot told me. Scouts honour.

*penis*

You fucking idiot I'm working and lol'ed hard

 

[Mriverz]

The Nintendo fans will always buy Nintendo handhelds, some multiple versions...water is wet

This has nothing to do with home consoles

You know the switch is still considered a home console right.. water is not wet

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I didn't make it though, this is legit, my friends uncle who works for Nintendo who has a Sony tattoo on his foot told me. Scouts honour.

I knew it. PS Penis confirmed.

 

[DrDamn]

They probably have a conventional form factor though extra focus on better cooling.

There is nothing conventional about the PS5 Dev kit design. I don't see why they would go to all that trouble, and a patent, if it wasn't going to be used in some way in the retail box too. Dev kits could just be in a big PC box design of they wanted.

I guess there is the argument that it's designed to stack, but I still think it's an indication of cooling requirements in the same way the XSX form factor is.

 

[Niked]

Here is great videos explaining benefits and differences between GDDR6 and HBM2. Exciting technology thats going to be in PS5

 

[Self High Five]

Depends on the price. A 6-7 TF Lockhart for 299 would attract many casuals, i guarantee you that. You can't compare a late gen console to a starting console. The starting price matters most.

Casuals are attracted to launch gaming lineups at $60 a pop?

Casuals don't like the option to buy used cheap disc games? Or borrow/lend physical copies to friends or family?

Casuals like to replace the consoles they bought just 2-3 years ago?

Starting price is just a small component on many various factors for casuals to jump in. Wii U was $299 and arguably the most powerful console on the market launching with a sequel to one of the highest selling games last gen (NSMB). How did $299 go for Nintendo?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Can we get something like this on next gen consoles??

Cyberpunk sequel I'd bet. And in-game....but with lots of graphical tricks so it runs higher than 15FPS.

I hope someone like Capcom does an REmake type game for next-gen; don't care about open-world or real-time cameras or tank controls if the character models and backgrounds could offer stunning detail with really effective ray-tracing to boot.

 

[geordiemp]

You know the switch is still considered a home console right.. water is not wet

Switch is a handheld with a pastic case to plug in to your TV that could be done away with if they really wanted to.

Its a handheld with a plastic charging station that plugs into your tV....that is not a home console in my book

But whatever takes your fancy

Everybody in here is debating 9 to 13 TF powerful home consoles, yay 0.5 TF is reaally good value at whatever, who cares , my toaster has more power ?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

With all due respect, there isn't a lot of context to Heisenberg, Osiris, Klee or even Jason's comments. Let alone folks like Tommy Fisher or CameFromFuturesPast, who seemed to be impostors if anything. We don't know what dev kits and spec sheets they were looking at (or their sources were looking at) when they made those posts. We don't know how trustworthy their sources are, or if those sources are still relevant/pertinent.

Take for example Jason's "Google 10.7" comment. We already know that Stadia is GCN, but he never claimed if the 10.7 was just flush (implying something like Moore's Law) or if it were based on architectural specifications. Because guess what? 10.7 GCN gets you roughly 8.025TF Navi, and guess when Sony made a reference to 8TF? Back when they were talking about the amount of processing power you'd need at minimum for native 4K60 gaming. That comment was made likely some time around PS4 Pro's launch IIRC.

This is what I mean when I say some of these insiders have very little context with their statements. It isn't the only example, either. I remember another insider making a statement to the effect of XSX having around 11TF Navi, and this was after the APU die shot went up and tech channel experts had estimated the die size to a little over 400mm2. I asked them at the time of the comment why would the XSX, at a specification of possibly 56CUs, clock its GPU well below the minimum of the sweetspot of 1.7GHz-1.8GHz, to get "just" 11? Because that would mean the GPU clocked @ 1545. Which just made zero sense for an APU of that size. You can probably already guess but said individual was never able to answer that particular question xD.

It honestly perplexes me how quickly people will run with some of the insider claims without actually taking a second and thinking of the context or probability into the claims. This isn't me saying "don't listen to insiders"; they are very much still worth listening to. But you have to weigh it and do so with a dash of salt because not everything will turn out to be true or even close to true. And as someone who likes to do their own research into possibilities, probabilities, existing data and trends etc., that probably makes me less suspectible to believing every single thing an insider claims.

OTOH, I do have to question why everyone who is doubtful of anyone not 100% buying stock into simply insiders jumps off with the Github leak. Can't speak too much for others (tho I'd assume the following's true for many of them, as well), but the Github leak hasn't been at the forefront of my own factors into PS5 speculation. It's a neat reference, but that's about it. Actually, it's been the persistent GPU benchmark datamines which have been of more pertinence, and it just happens that parts of the Github leak agree with them. It just so happens, as well, that the V-design PS5 kit fits circumstantially with the GPU benchmarks as well; you can infer a GPU clocked @2GHz is drawing a lot of heat and that V-design PS5 dev kit fits would be very suitable for cooling such a GPU. The GPU benchmarks have been creating a long-term pattern and that's a data point worth taking into consideration.

Let me get back to the insiders, tho. Speaking of lack of context, another claim by many of them is that XSX's dev kits were running behind schedule relative PS5's, aka PS5 had dev kits out quite earlier. I think it was sometime in November but we had gotten some type of word about XSX devkits just getting shipped? So, the insiders were basically claiming PS5 performance being ahead, but if developers had XSX devkits further behind in steppings or didn't even have XSX devkits at all, would that be assumed? Some of the comments, though, made it seem like XSX devkits were already mature and in dev hands at the time of those early claims. I even noticed contradictions going on from some insiders even on that note, so it really does beg the question of what was their context.

I've seen some reference target spec sheets as a way of making up for that (I know Jason has done such; maybe not to "make up" for earlier claims implying dev kits being out when they weren't, but he did say something about looking at target spec sheets IIRC), but I've always found the timing of some insiders going back and forth between going off the dev kits and the target spec sheets as almost intentionally confusing. And come to think of it, when is the last time any insiders have actually seen up-to-date dev kit performance for either system, or their sources for that matter? Some of the claims put out earlier date very far back, since before E3 2019 in fact. If some have tried telling people to disregard a leak with a chip tested in June 2019, how are their claims for supposed next-gen performance supposed to be taken at face value when they were based on things predating that year's E3? If one source is questionable due to timing, then should not the other be as well?

And FWIW, again the persistent GPU benchmarks that have been found since that leak seem to be more recent as well. Not SUPER recent but, just as an example, Oberon stepping E0 (I think) is the one that fixed a silicon bug in the memory controller, allowing for more memory bandwidth.

I'm not saying one source is "better" than the other, but I can say personally, that at least things like the GPU benchmarks provide a timeline, they have relevance with one another, and have been persistent and provide somewhat more context, which increases their pertinence. Some of the Youtubers a few folks want to write off, they actually have a lot of technical knowledge, and understanding of the production process, fab process, how orders for fabbing works, and understanding of the performance potential of various architectures including, yes, Zen and Navi. Some of them also have a focus on the tech market as a whole, especially with particular companies like AMD and Intel, their product lines etc. and even if they don't focus particularly on gaming, when they DO talk about the next-gen systems they tend to utilize that knowledge into their discussion of various rumors or data that comes about.

IMO, a healthy mix of taking the various sources into account is the best approach, because none of them are going to be 100% correct. And, yes, for certain areas I think some carry more weight than others. For example at the moment I feel the benchmark datamines carry more weight than insiders "claiming" certain specs, because one is hard data with a pattern and timeline to it while the other are speculation from messengers relying on sources that can run the gamut of literally anything.

People being honest in their own speculation who are wiling to shift through the different sources (leaks, insiders, benchmarks, tech analyzer speculation, tech articles etc.) and see what parts of what they say are most probable and line up in agreement with each other the most within a sensible hierarchy, are going to be closer to guessing what's likely with these system versus those who cling absolutely to only one such source, to the point of infallibility. Hopefully people put some of those more troublesome emotions aside and try being more reasonable in what they speculate; it's alright to have a preference, but don't let it turn you into making unreasonable speculations especially if those lead into a next-gen console war pissing contest.

Great post.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

However looking at rumours, GitHub leak, Series X die screen shot, Series X PC Tower Design, rumour of PS5 originally being a 2019 release, Sony being very hush about specs at this stage, and finally the rumour of $450 BOM being higher than Sony wanted it to be makes me think they are going for a 8TF/9TF system targeting $400, but may have to up the price to $450/500 depending on Series X price, however still chance of Sony eating the cost and going $400.

Yep, and trust me, if the stuff you mentioned wasn't around, I wouldn't even be entertaining the speculation I have come to see as most probable right now. But I can't just pretend it doesn't exist and doesn't have some validated context.

But the funny thing is, I've personally never been a power user when it comes to gaming. Almost every system I got first for a given generation was weaker in some notable way technically than a competitor. Genesis was weaker than SNES in colors and special effects like Mode 7, but was the one I got that gen (well, at the near end, and because my dad got it for my first console). PS1 was arguably weaker than N64, but I definitely got PS1 first because it had the games I wanted most. In fact I only got an N64 later because the PS1 broke xD. Same with PS2; it just had the games I wanted and didn't matter if GC and Xbox were more powerful, that's why I got one back in 2002.

So at the end of the day, if I get either system at launch I'm getting the one that has the games I want and right now both of them have at least some games I would really enjoy playing. Power is important but even at launch it has never been the main deciding factor. If it were, systems like the 3D0 and Atari Jaguar would've sold like gangbusters at launch, but they didn't. Power has to be weighed with price, game software and (nowadays) ecosystem services to really push someone to one system or the other (or even both).

There's a lot of other factors that can lead me to not buy a PS5 or XSX at launch besides price, for sure.

Great post.

I'm glad you appreciate it Heisenberg; I've got respect for you guys and regardless where everything falls I hope folks keep in mind not to "shoot the messenger" as the saying goes. But next-gen speculation's just too fun to not entertain a nice range of possible sources.

Just as long as people are being respectful about their speculation, and not trying to throw any one type of side or source off the cliff. If that's a standard maintained then that's when speculation discussions tend to be at their best.

 

[Sussoloc]

Casuals are attracted to launch gaming lineups at $60 a pop?

Casuals don't like the option to buy used cheap disc games? Or borrow/lend physical copies to friends or family?

Casuals like to replace the consoles they bought just 2-3 years ago?

Starting price is just a small component on many various factors for casuals to jump in. Wii U was $299 and arguably the most powerful console on the market launching with a sequel to one of the highest selling games last gen (NSMB). How did $299 go for Nintendo?

Do you think casuals that spend billions on microtransactions every year in their games are going to give a damn about trading or selling it? They don't trade their Fifa/COD/BF7GTA/RDR2/Fortnite and so on, they keep it till the next full price update version of it appears and at that time the game is worth almost nothing. They also got the Game Pass for cheap games if they wish. Digital games are getting more and more important, Steam killed pysical discs for Pc years ago and console discs are going to die too. Won't take too long in my oppinion.

The starting price is the biggest factor of them all. By far. You saw it last gen, you saw it this gen.

Wii U was no competition for Sony or Microsoft. Completely different concept and target group and the reason it sucked was very bad marketing and name giving, not the price.

 

[Mriverz]

Switch is a handheld with a pastic case to plug in to your TV that could be done away with if they really wanted to.

Its a handheld with a plastic charging station that plugs into your tV....that is not a home console in my book

But whatever takes your fancy

Everybody in here is debating 9 to 13 TF powerful home consoles, yay 0.5 TF is reaally good value at whatever, who cares , my toaster has more power ?

lol your so triggered that you had to edit to rage. In the end price matters. And that .05 Tf has sold more then a current gen console.

 

[HawarMiran]

But I still think the PS5 will have a similar look. For a devkit it has an oddly specific look. Before that devkits were always a "simple" box. I don't believe the argument "it is easier to stack for developers"

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm glad you appreciate it Heisenberg; I've got respect for you guys and regardless where everything falls I hope folks keep in mind not to "shoot the messenger" as the saying goes. But next-gen speculation's just too fun to not entertain a nice range of possible sources.

Just as long as people are being respectful about their speculation, and not trying to throw any one type of side or source off the cliff. If that's a standard maintained then that's when speculation discussions tend to be at their best.

No matter what any of us say we are not Cerny or Phil Spencer so we may be 100% wrong and totally open to be questioned or criticized and I am ok with that.

 

[Gamernyc78]

But I still think the PS5 will have a similar look. For a devkit it has an oddly specific look. Before that devkits were always a "simple" box. I don't believe the argument "it is to easier to stack for developers"

Yeah tht dev kit was out of the norm and I believe they are testing that design obviously to see how it handles the heat. I'll be happy to see a variation of tht reach consumers. I'm tired of bland boxes.

 

[sinnergy]

After the Series X reveal we heard nothing about the power differences and insiders seemed to have vanished.

 

[HawarMiran]

Someone made a mockup based on the devkit. I need to find it. It aligns with the new "narrative" of a more expensive cooling solution.

This was it
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next...-analysis-leaks-thread.1480978/post-256251730

 

[squidilix]

PS5 build with HMB2 Rumor come back again ?

 

[Agnostic2020]

After the Series X reveal we heard nothing about the power differences and insiders seemed to have vanished.

Yet MS is not confident at all like with x1x. We have heard literally from every insiders that they r very close . If it was 9 vs 12 MS would be shouting from mountains about most powerful console ever created in the milky galaxyand not "our most powerful console "

 

[Self High Five]

Do you think casuals that spend billions on microtransactions every year in their games are going to give a damn about trading or selling it? They don't trade their Fifa/COD/BF7GTA/RDR2/Fortnite and so on, they keep it till the next full price update version of it appears and at that time the game is worth almost nothing. They also got the Game Pass for cheap games if they wish. Digital games are getting more and more important, Steam killed pysical discs for Pc years ago and console discs are going to die too. Won't take too long in my oppinion.

The starting price is the biggest factor of them all. By far. You saw it last gen, you saw it this gen.

Here's some actual facts to discredit this largely anecdotal rant:

This was less than a year ago


Consumers/casuals like options, they like price (for both games & consoles), and all those games you just mentioned will likely be available for consoles they just bought 2-3 years ago with the option of a physical copy.

These facts don't disappear because you root for one specific console manufacturer over another.

 

[sinnergy]

Yet MS is not confident at all like with x1x. We have heard literally from every insiders that they r very close . If it was 9 vs 12 MS would be shouting from mountains about most powerful console ever created in the milky galaxyand not "our most powerful console "

Which insiders we heard the power difference around E3 2019 ...

Xbox Series X is shown, non of the more reliable websites reported info of PS5 being more powerful, and reporters ...

The so called forum insiders can't be trusted.
MS can only be so much cocky ... why lay it up that thick?
They will do that when the time is right.

with their form factor it's not weird to push it 0.5 - 1 TF even more before launch.

 

[geordiemp]

lol your so triggered that you had to edit to rage. In the end price matters. And that .05 Tf has sold more then a current gen console.

Rage lol, I dont care, just having fun with NDF, knew it would trigger you after your post ....look Switch is 199 lol, who gives a crap...

I could not resist it, it was too easy !

Why you here, nobody is interested about Switch price, its irrelevant, N fans buy N consoles who knew ?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Which insiders we heard the power difference around E3 2019 ...

You can only be so much cocky ... why lay it up that thick?
They will do that when the time is right.

with their form factor it's not weird to push it 0.5 - 1 TF even more before launch.

Which Insiders? Love how ppl blank moments out for a narrative. The question isn't even if "which" it's been most that we can count reliable or semi reliable in the past. Most didn't just have them close in power, actually most had PS5 with the advantage in power, SSD and RT from Reiner, Schreier. Osiris to Matt.

Lets stop the bs and revision. The writing is on the wall.

We have seen what cocky gets you with Microsoft. Crackdown 3, kinect, cloud exponential power, etc...

Nah bro we not believers you got to back up what you talk and coming out with a system a year later at more doesn't mean shit. Launch aligned is a different story.

Cerny coming for tht ass (pause)

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You got it backwards, OsirisBlack posted it first and correctly: fortnight.
Very probably that Zhuge guys joke was intended for Osiris,... Why? Maybe but hurt cause doesn't have devs sharing info with him.

And Maybe Zhuge just knew that plans have changed and tried to be the "Master" insider and make the rest like clowns, while they were not wrong but changes happen?

 

[01011001]

Yet MS is not confident at all like with x1x. We have heard literally from every insiders that they r very close . If it was 9 vs 12 MS would be shouting from mountains about most powerful console ever created in the milky galaxyand not "our most powerful console "

and how do you explain that they called the Xbox One "the most powerful console ever" in their marketing?
see, at least try to make sense maybe?

so that would mean that on one hand they have no issue saying their system is the most powerful when it wasn't, and also on the other hand be scared to say this because they know it's not true...

ooooookay man lol

 

[sinnergy]

All around E3 2019 ... they know jack shit if you ask me.

 

[sinnergy]

Which Insiders? Love how ppl blank moments out for a narrative. The question isn't even if "which" it's been most that we can count reliable or semi reliable in the past. Most didn't just have them close in power, actually most had PS5 with the advantage in power, SSD and RT from Reiner, Schreier. Osiris to Matt.

Lets stop the bs and revision. The writing is on the wall.

We have seen what cocky gets you with Microsoft. Crackdown 3, kinect, cloud exponential power, etc...

Nah bro we not believers you got to back up what you talk and coming out with a system a year later at more doesn't mean shit. Launch aligned is a different story.

Cerny coming for tht ass (pause)

And then the whole Github leak happend... the writting is indeed on the wall. Just discarding that is foolish, it's the only data that seems to be accurate about Series X, so why wouldn't it be for PS5? If you look at the size of the APU which was shown it lines up with that data... just saying.

yet most have forgotten about that leak .

and if you combine it with the rumor, but that's a if, that PS5 was meant to launch in 2019 it doesn't paint a good picture for Sony.

 

[Gamernyc78]

and how do you explain that they called the Xbox One "the most powerful console ever" in their marketing?
see, at least try to make sense maybe?

so that would mean that on one hand they have no issue saying their system is the most powerful when it wasn't, and also on the other hand be scared to say this because they know it's not true...

ooooookay man lol

Thy e already explained this shit to you a billion times lol its ambiguous bs and thy said "most powerful Xbox console"

You annoying with this lol

 

[Falc67]

My numbers are different from his slightly as even yet today I still believe the XsX will be more powerful overall but they will be super close.

Are Sony/Ms giving out different specced dev kits/targets specs to different devs?

I appreciate you both have them close, but all of your sources have XSX higher and all of his have PS5 higher; yet you still both believe each other?

Not trying to come across invasive, just wondering if there's something I'm missing?

 

[Gudji]

The github leak while real it's not up to date I don't even know why people keep bringing that shit up.
Oberon leaked data was for a B0 stepping! We now know oberon is at E0 stepping according to rogame guy on twitter.
XSX chip seems to be a D0 stepping according to Colbert from era.
Steppings (A, B, C, D, etc) means that there was a major redesign of the chip, which is something expensive for companies btw.

Jason, Matt and Klee all said the systems are pretty much close, there won't be a major difference between them in therms of performance.
At minimum expect a 10.25 TF PS5 and at best a 13 TF GPU.

I'm personally expecting the difference between both consoles to be between 1-1.5 TF, which is not significant.
That's less than the difference between a RTX 2080 Super vs RTX 2080 Ti and somewhat the difference between a RTX 2080 vs RTX 2080 Super, in real world performance you'll get like 3 to 5 frames difference with the same graphical settings but... games are tailored to both consoles, so it's meaningless. But yeah console wars will continue even if the difference is 100 MHz, no doubt about it.
But 3 TF or more difference? At a similar BOM? Not happening. Feel free to bookmark me!

Regarding BOM, Zhuge said he expects the PS5 BOM to be between 450 and 490 and XSX between 460-520.
The bloomberg guy talked about 450 but none of these things are confirmed - the dude was wrong several times in the past too.
So yeah regarding retail price don't expect a 400€/$400 console or you'll be dissapointed, it simply won't happen, even more when price for certain materials is rising.
If PS5 BOM is 450 that doesn't include manufacturing, packaging, distrubution, etc, and sony is not in the business of losing money! Same with MS.

Again, If the performance between the two consoles is identical, there is no reason for sony to have the console cheaper than XSX and that thing won't be less than 500.
Another reason could be that MS decides to go below 500 with XSX, which won't happen because they'll have lockhart as a cheaper option.
Which to be honest I don't think it will make a dent on playstation sales wordwilde, at best it will help MS sell more on the US, UK, Mexico and that's about it.

 

[Mriverz]

Rage lol, I dont care, just having fun with NDF, knew it would trigger you after your post ....look Switch is 199 lol, who gives a crap...

I could not resist it, it was too easy !

Why you here, nobody is interested about Switch price, its irrelevant, N fans buy N consoles who knew ?

lol your the saying price doesn't matter im clearly saying it does by stating facts. in which you got all defensive about and started saying a .05 tf dont count as a home console. Why am i here? Im sorry is this your thread and i ruffled your feathers by bringing up a price of a console? Lmfao scurb

 

[Gamernyc78]

And then the whole Github leak happend... the writting is indeed on the wall. Just discarding that is foolish, it's the only data that seems to be accurate about Series X, so why wouldn't it be for PS5? If you look at the size of the APU which was shown it lines up with that data... just saying.

Yeah it is then Matt chimed in on tht github so many fanboys were holding on to. You mean the github with no RT solution right from testing awhile back???

Yup its on the wall. I'm bookmarking you bcus we all know both these consoles will be in double digits.

 

[KAL2006]

Yep, and trust me, if the stuff you mentioned wasn't around, I wouldn't even be entertaining the speculation I have come to see as most probable right now. But I can't just pretend it doesn't exist and doesn't have some validated context.

But the funny thing is, I've personally never been a power user when it comes to gaming. Almost every system I got first for a given generation was weaker in some notable way technically than a competitor. Genesis was weaker than SNES in colors and special effects like Mode 7, but was the one I got that gen (well, at the near end, and because my dad got it for my first console). PS1 was arguably weaker than N64, but I definitely got PS1 first because it had the games I wanted most. In fact I only got an N64 later because the PS1 broke xD. Same with PS2; it just had the games I wanted and didn't matter if GC and Xbox were more powerful, that's why I got one back in 2002.

So at the end of the day, if I get either system at launch I'm getting the one that has the games I want and right now both of them have at least some games I would really enjoy playing. Power is important but even at launch it has never been the main deciding factor. If it were, systems like the 3D0 and Atari Jaguar would've sold like gangbusters at launch, but they didn't. Power has to be weighed with price, game software and (nowadays) ecosystem services to really push someone to one system or the other (or even both).

There's a lot of other factors that can lead me to not buy a PS5 or XSX at launch besides price, for sure.



I'm glad you appreciate it Heisenberg; I've got respect for you guys and regardless where everything falls I hope folks keep in mind not to "shoot the messenger" as the saying goes. But next-gen speculation's just too fun to not entertain a nice range of possible sources.

Just as long as people are being respectful about their speculation, and not trying to throw any one type of side or source off the cliff. If that's a standard maintained then that's when speculation discussions tend to be at their best.

I also wasn't much of a power user. Never was really into PC gaming. I was where the games were. Although Xbox came and PS2 was weaker I preferred PS2.

With the last generation PS4 was my go-to console as I prefer Sony exclusives. And it's not only the Sony published exclusives, it's game like Yakuza, Nier, Nioh and etc not coming out on Xbox One.

Before all the rumours and leaks I was guaranteed to get a PS5 day 1. However if there is a substantial difference 20 to 25 percent then I am having 2nd thoughts. This ain't like the PS2 days where Sony just get exclusives. Microsoft is in fact are making their business to make these Japanese games come out on Xbox with the latest example being Yakuza. Backwards compatibility nearly certified I'm going PS5 but the more I think about it my library of games isn't that big as I resell games. I do still have quite a few digital games, but let's be honest these last gen games end up being dirt cheap and always go on sale after a while. If I was really concerned about a few of these games I'd just rebuy them for dirt cheap. It's losing out on the premier AAA exclusive from Sony studio that would affect me, I would need to borrow PS5 off friends and family for the few games that are exclusive I guess.

However if I was being honest I was hoping PS5 would be stronger than Series X or slightly weaker as it would be a easy choice going with PS5.

We shall see what happens I guess, but so far in leaning towards PS5 being considerably weaker than Series X and I hope I am wrong.

 

[SportsFan581]

and how do you explain that they called the Xbox One "the most powerful console ever" in their marketing?
see, at least try to make sense maybe?

so that would mean that on one hand they have no issue saying their system is the most powerful when it wasn't, and also on the other hand be scared to say this because they know it's not true...

ooooookay man lol

Different voices leading the conversation, I'd say. I believe that whichever system comes out on top, that brand will try to market that (regardless of how small the margin), but only after the current staring contest over price is finished.

 

[01011001]

Thy e already explained this shit to you a billion times lol its ambiguous bs and thy said "most powerful Xbox console"

You annoying with this lol

and again, the Xbox One was marketed as the MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE EVER in many places, even the day 1 achievement said that
the wording of PR speech is not any indication of anything and it is pathetic when people disregard hard data because of the wording some PR dude made up

 

[sinnergy]

Yeah it is then Matt chimed in on tht github so many fanboys were holding on to. You mean the github with no RT solution right from testing awhile back???

Yup its on the wall. I'm bookmarking you bcus we all know both these consoles will be in double digits.

Good for you , yes PS5 will be 10 TF and series X will be 12TF with a upclock to 13 TF for MS because of the form factor. So 13 TF.

 

[Mriverz]

My numbers are different from his slightly as even yet today I still believe the XsX will be more powerful overall but they will be super close.

Since they are so close you think the sources are factoring in something that OB sources may not be that could give it a slight edge? Goes vice versa

 

[DeepEnigma]

I didn't make it though, this is legit, my friends uncle who works for Nintendo who has a Sony tattoo on his foot told me. Scouts honour.

Does that plug in to the XSX Flesh Light design?

 

[hemo memo]

And Maybe Zhuge just knew that plans have changed and tried to be the "Master" insider and make the rest like clowns, while they were not wrong but changes happen?

That's why I respect HeisenbergFX4 because he makes it clear that it's still a guess with the possibility of things changing. He wasn't going insane with the Feb reveal stuff like OsirisBlack and Tommy Fisher just to disappear when things changed.

 

[Sussoloc]

Here's some actual facts to discredit this largely anecdotal rant:

This was less than a year ago


Consumers/casuals like options, they like price (for both games & consoles), and all those games you just mentioned will likely be available for consoles they just bought 2-3 years ago with the option of a physical copy.

These facts don't disappear because you root for one specific console manufacturer over another.

Here are some actual facts too:

PlayStation 4 Digital Game Sales Overtake Physical. That’s a First | CCN.com

www.ccn.com

UK video games market is now 80% digital

UK video games (excluding hardware) generated £3.864 billion last year, according to the Entertainment Retailers Associ…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Of course people like to have a choice, but the direction is clear. Physical discs for console are going to die too sooner or later, no matter how much you or me would hate it.

But i didn't want to argue on digital games in the first place. Nobody knows if a Lockhart is coming and nobody knows whether it will have a drive or not. My point was, that a Lockhart that undercuts the PS5 by let us say 100 bucks will attract many casual gamers, because the console price is the main buying reason for casuals when the gen starts. Later the price becomes less important, then it's most important what console the friends have and they go after that. That's why the starting price is so important, it defines the whole gen.

And i do not prefer Microsoft over Sony generally, i chose my products without loving brands. Atm it's the X. PS5 is >20% stronger than Series X? I go for Ps5. And if i have the choice i will always go for consoles with drives.