Support NeoGAF

[Dee Dah Dave]

I heard Mark Cerny has invented a faster than light speed SSD while masturbating in his bath tub. It's truly a game changer and comparable to alien technology. Anaconda has more RAM and higher teraflop GPU, but Cerny's patented SSD tech negates it all.

MS going back to the drawing board as we speak. Hear more about it live on stage this Sunday!

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't understand what is not possible?

Phil said the next-gen console to be again the most powerful console in the world just like X... that one is Anaconda version.
Lockhart is suppose to be a cheaper entry-point based in Anaconda to drive sales.

I guess it will be something like...

Xbox New S (Lockhart) $299
Xbox New X (Anaconda) $499

It is clear the main drive sales will be the $299 version... the second one is just to hold the performance crow like the X did... I'm expecting MS to eat loses with Anaconda while Lockhart will be profitable.

MS wants to be the cheapest and most powerful option in the next-generation.

What I'm saying is there's no way that will work if MS wants to do that. It's not possible to sale a Xbox New S for $299 and be profitable. It literally isn't possible. Plus.....if Lockhart could be $200 cheaper than Anaconda then that means Lockhart would be way weaker and have more things missing that the rumors have been stating. If Lockhart was $299, then that means MS also took out the disc drive too.

And at some point, even if Lockhart is cheap (for a new console) it stops being appealing to gamers.

 

[Darius87]

"Our hardware team is deep into developing the next generation of Xbox consoles, where we will once again deliver on our commitment to set the benchmark for console gaming." Phil Spenser, E3 2018.

that doesn't mean that he ment next xbox will be the most powerful console, if he would said:

"Our hardware team is deep into developing the next generation of Xbox consoles, where we will once again deliver on our commitment to set the benchmark for console performance." Phil Spenser, E3 2018.

you'll be right.

 

[FranXico]

It would be amazing and hilarious if Sony managed to be cheaper and more powerful again.

Amazing and hilarious due to how extremely improbable it is.

I think Sony will manage to have a console that is close enough to the high end Xbox in power, but still a bit weaker.
The difference in power will not be as big as in previous generations.
What will be interesting is which innovations each machine brings. It looks like MS and Sony are both trying new things as well.

 

[ethomaz]

that doesn't mean that he ment next xbox will be the most powerful console, if he would said:

"Our hardware team is deep into developing the next generation of Xbox consoles, where we will once again deliver on our commitment to set the benchmark for console performance." Phil Spenser, E3 2018.

you'll be right.

Again refers to Xbox One X.... they want to set the benchmark like they did with X...

... the most powerful console in the world.

What I'm saying is there's no way that will work if MS wants to do that. It's not possible to sale a Xbox New S for $299 and be profitable. It literally isn't possible. Plus.....if Lockhart could be $200 cheaper than Anaconda then that means Lockhart would be way weaker and have more things missing that the rumors have been stating. If Lockhart was $299, then that means MS also took out the disc drive too.

And at some point, even if Lockhart is cheap (for a new console) it stops being appealing to gamers.

Well Lockhart is suppose to be more advance but weaker in raw power than Xbox One X.
The chip will be way smaller too that will made it cheaper than X.

I believe it is possible to be $299 in 2020.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I agree with you about Sony, but my only fear is that maybe Sony is getting too confident. I'd hate for Sony to get PS2 cocky and think they have everything all figured out and rest on their laurels. Skipping E3 shows you that Sony KNOWS they've got this gen in the bag and don't have to participate. So, they are willing to save money rather than bore people with game trailers of games that we've seen already. That's fine, but what's not fine is that there's rumors (or was it a fact) that Sony isn't having a PS Experience this year either. NOW THAT'S CRAZY!




It's not possible for Anaconda to be the flagship, while Lockhart is the sales driver. It doesn't work that way. I "hope" MS isn't wishing for this scenario to be true.

PS is now basically the flagship and face of the Sony bigger corporation besides movies/music and few other other things. I wouldn't worry about Sony not being prepared or being to confident. They know what's at stake if anything imo it's quite the opposite they are being very smart after ps3 situation. Imo we are in for a treat and few surprises with PS5.

 

[Fake]

Again refers to Xbox One X.... they want to set the benchmark like they did with X...

... the most powerful console in the world.

Well, unless they release the 'most powerful console' after Sony PS5 its difficult to imagine if this is really true. They need to know what Sony its up to first.

 

[Darius87]

Again refers to Xbox One X.... they want to set the benchmark like they did with X...

... the most powerful console in the world.


Well Lockhart is suppose to be more advance but weaker than Xbox One X.

you have to take words literally because it's ms they to vague, 'console gaming' could mean more then one thing and not only power of xbox.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Can't we just wait and see what the concrete specs are for both, which is probably more like E3 2020 not now. Even then you need to see real world performance of games, and not launch ones either. 2nd wave games and beyond start to show real power and that is holiday 2021+

All this tittle tattle over non existent specs and maybes is silly.

 

[ethomaz]

you have to take words literally because it's ms they to vague, 'console gaming' could mean more then one thing and not only power of xbox.

It is not only me look at any article about the next-gen reveal at E3 last year... all of them hear the same thing.

Just watch the stream you will understand.

Again = X effect again.

They aim to the same benchmark as X.

If there is no "again" after Phil talk about X then I could think like you.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well Lockhart is suppose to be more advance but weaker in raw power than Xbox One X.
The chip will be way smaller too that will made it cheaper than X.

I believe it is possible to be $299 in 2020.

I think the more advanced chips in Lockhart will offset the cheaper production cost. And if Lockhart could sell for $299, then why couldn't Anaconda sell for $399? What do you think will be the differences between Lockhart and Anaconda?

 

[Fake]

My bet is Lockhart will replace the Xbox One for good.

 

[Nikana]

I think the more advanced chips in Lockhart will offset the cheaper production cost. And if Lockhart could sell for $299, then why couldn't Anaconda sell for $399? What do you think will be the differences between Lockhart and Anaconda?

I'd assume raw amount of power will require quite a difference in cooling and design of the box.

 

[mckmas8808]

My bet is Lockhart will replace the Xbox One for good.

The only way it does this is if sells for $250 or less. Because I doubt Sony will stop selling the OG PS4 next year. And I can see Sony selling the OG PS4 next year with a free game for $199.

I'd assume raw amount of power will require quite a difference in cooling and design of the box.

Great point! But now that introduces ANOTHER issue. Now MS will need to have two completely different production lines for two brand new consoles that they will want to sale world-wide simultaneously. Creating and distribution of these two models that have completely different sizes, cooling, and design can't be cheap.

 

[Aceofspades]

I heard Mark Cerny has invented a faster than light speed SSD while masturbating in his bath tub. It's truly a game changer and comparable to alien technology. Anaconda has more RAM and higher teraflop GPU, but Cerny's patented SSD tech negates it all.

MS going back to the drawing board as we speak. Hear more about it live on stage this Sunday!

DAT Passive aggressiveness

 

[Darius87]

It is not only me look at any article about the next-gen reveal at E3 last year... all of them hear the same thing.

Just watch the stream you will understand.

Again = X effect again.

They aim to the same benchmark as X.

If there is no "again" after Phil talk about X then I could think like you.

i get it and it could be that and it could be lot of other thing... it's to vague, but saying:

Phil already claimed last year that Anaconda is the most powerful console in the world...

is simply wrong, if spencer simply wanted to say that it he would said like: 'next gen xbox will be most powerful of all systems' or something like that and that would be pretty stupid because no one knows.

 

[Fake]

The only way it does this is if sells for $250 or less. Because I doubt Sony will stop selling the OG PS4 next year. And I can see Sony selling the OG PS4 next year with a free game for $199.

No matter the price at least in the context of they vision of kick ESRAM. Maybe the launch price could be higher, but at least they gonna remove this from memory factor from the past.

 

[vpance]

Amazing and hilarious due to how extremely improbable it is.

I think Sony will manage to have a console that is close enough to the high end Xbox in power, but still a bit weaker.
The difference in power will not be as big as in previous generations.
What will be interesting is which innovations each machine brings. It looks like MS and Sony are both trying new things as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if MS has a lot more RAM (like 8 or 12GB more) as their solution for better load times, while Sony has their custom SSD. That could be the biggest factor in price difference. So with budget saved on RAM Sony could go with a bigger APU.

 

[FranXico]

I wouldn't be surprised if MS has a lot more RAM (like 8 or 12GB more) as their solution for better load times, while Sony has their custom SSD. That could be the biggest factor in price difference. So with budget saved on RAM Sony could go with a bigger APU.

Customized SSD solutions don't come in cheap either.

 

[mckmas8808]

I wouldn't be surprised if MS has a lot more RAM (like 8 or 12GB more) as their solution for better load times, while Sony has their custom SSD. That could be the biggest factor in price difference. So with budget saved on RAM Sony could go with a bigger APU.

I'd hate to find out MS has 8 GBs of more RAM, while Sony has their new custom SSD. I don't know if I love that trade off for Sony.

 

[ethomaz]

I think the more advanced chips in Lockhart will offset the cheaper production cost. And if Lockhart could sell for $299, then why couldn't Anaconda sell for $399? What do you think will be the differences between Lockhart and Anaconda?

Lockhart
APU: Same 8-core CPU / 4-5TFs GPU
RAM: 12GB Max (same as X)

Anaconda
APU: Same 8-core CPU / 12-13TFs GPU
RAM: 20-24GB

Something like that... Lockhart is cheaper because the APU will be ridiculous smaller (probably less than 150mm2) and the amount of RAM will be way lower that means the board PCB will be less complex (cheaper) too due the bus being small... cooling will be way cheaper on Lockhart too.

Just the APU, RAM, board design and cooling will cut about $200 between the two systems.

 

[Ar¢tos]

The only way it does this is if sells for $250 or less. Because I doubt Sony will stop selling the OG PS4 next year. And I can see Sony selling the OG PS4 next year with a free game for $199.



Great point! But now that introduces ANOTHER issue. Now MS will need to have two completely different production lines for two brand new consoles that they will want to sale world-wide simultaneously. Creating and distribution of these two models that have completely different sizes, cooling, and design can't be cheap.

Unofficially, the ps4 has been 250 + 1 game for a while now. I can see it going to 200 for black Friday this year.

 

[mckmas8808]

Lockhart
APU: Same 8-core CPU / 4-5TFs GPU
RAM: 12GB Max (same as X)

Anaconda
APU: Same 8-core CPU / 12-13TFs GPU
RAM: 20-24GB

Something like that... Lockhart is cheaper because the APU will be ridiculous smaller (probably less than 150mm2) and the amount of RAM will be way lower that means the board PCB will be less complex (cheaper) too due the bus being small... cooling will be way cheaper on Lockhart too.

Just the APU, RAM, board design and cooling will cut about $200 between the two systems.

Just to let you know, I'm not saying you will be wrong. If you are even 70% correct, it'll make next-gen SUPER exciting. My firm belief is (if Lockhart is what you think it will be) if Lockhart is the main\higher selling Xbox NEXT console, it will hold back MS' games for a full generation.

I know people "THINK" the difference between 5 TFs with 12 GBs of RAM and 12 TFs and 24 GBs of RAM is just a pure resolution difference, but they will be proven wrong. There's no way the leading Xbox Next console can be Lockhart AND devs still push Anaconda to its max (as if Lockhart never existed).

 

[ethomaz]

Just to let you know, I'm not saying you will be wrong. If you are even 70% correct, it'll make next-gen SUPER exciting. My firm belief is (if Lockhart is what you think it will be) if Lockhart is the main\higher selling Xbox NEXT console, it will hold back MS' games for a full generation.

I know people "THINK" the difference between 5 TFs with 12 GBs of RAM and 12 TFs and 24 GBs of RAM is just a pure resolution difference, but they will be proven wrong. There's no way the leading Xbox Next console can be Lockhart AND devs still push Anaconda to its max (as if Lockhart never existed).

I'm supposing Lockhart will be the main seller because the cheaper consoles sells more than the expensive... S sells way more than X... Slim sell way more than Pro. I can't see in any estimate Anaconda selling more than Lockhart.

It just doesn't make sense... the cheaper option will always be the main seller model.

Now leading console for development I believe it will be Anaconda even it not being the best seller.

 

[vpance]

I'd hate to find out MS has 8 GBs of more RAM, while Sony has their new custom SSD. I don't know if I love that trade off for Sony.

Having that much less RAM might seem bad at first but accounting for how much streaming game engines do now it might not matter at all. It's not like you can "see" all 24 or 32GB at once standing around at any point in a level.

Customized SSD solutions don't come in cheap either.

MS will undoubtedly have an SSD too, but just not as trick as Sony's, in my scenario.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm supposing Lockhart will be the main seller because the cheaper consoles sells more than the expensive... S sells way more than X... Slim sell way more than Pro. I can't see in any estimate Anaconda selling more than Lockhart.

It just doesn't make sense... the cheaper option will always be the main seller model.

Now leading console for development I believe it will be Anaconda even it not being the best seller.

Both the Xbox 360 Arcade and the PS3 20 GB edition sold worse than the more expensive Xbox 360 Regular and the 60 GB PS3.

 

[ethomaz]

Both the Xbox 360 Arcade and the PS3 20 GB edition sold worse than the more expensive Xbox 360 Regular and the 60 GB PS3.

That is not the same situation... $50 for more disc space is different from a $200 difference between systems.

BTW do you have the source for Xbox 360 Arcade and PS3 20GB being the worst sellers in the period they were sold?

 

[Bani]

I think the more advanced chips in Lockhart will offset the cheaper production cost. And if Lockhart could sell for $299, then why couldn't Anaconda sell for $399? What do you think will be the differences between Lockhart and Anaconda?

For example
Anaconda 12 TF, 500$
PS5 8 TF, 400$
Lockhart 4 TF 300$
You can't expect PS 5 to be like Anaconda and being 100 dollars cheaper doesn't work that way
People expect miracles

 

[mckmas8808]

BTW do you have the source for Xbox 360 Arcade and PS3 20GB being the worst sellers in the period they were sold?

I been on GAF for over a decade. You'd just have to trust me on this one lol.

For example
Anaconda 12 TF, 500$
PS5 8 TF, 400$
Lockhart 4 TF 300$
You can't expect PS 5 to be like Anaconda and being 100 dollars cheaper doesn't work that way
People expect miracles

It was exactly that way for the PS4 and Xbox One. Actually it was worse. The PS4 was the more powerful console and it was still $100 cheaper.

 

[Marlenus]

Lockhart
APU: Same 8-core CPU / 4-5TFs GPU
RAM: 12GB Max (same as X)

Anaconda
APU: Same 8-core CPU / 12-13TFs GPU
RAM: 20-24GB

Something like that... Lockhart is cheaper because the APU will be ridiculous smaller (probably less than 150mm2) and the amount of RAM will be way lower that means the board PCB will be less complex (cheaper) too due the bus being small... cooling will be way cheaper on Lockhart too.

Just the APU, RAM, board design and cooling will cut about $200 between the two systems.

They would be better making their top console and selling it for less than Sony by $50 than having two totally different skus and managing the inventory and production complications that entails.

 

[Negotiator]

RRP will also be dictated by who subsidizes the most, not just BoM cost.

Sony, for example, has an insane amount of PSN profits that they can put to good use to strengthen their stronghold, since the PS brand is their bread and butter.

MS on the other hand has a less profitable gaming department (in the grand scheme of things), but they also have lots of profits from Windows/Office/Azure.

The problem is, the XBOX brand is not their bread and butter. Will Nutella allow Phil to heavily subsidize next-gen XBOX or nah? That's the question.

 

[Dokku]

Ffs, I check this thread every few days all excited and whatnot to see if there have been any juicy leaks and all I see are toxic fanboys fanboying toxically.

 

[GermanZepp]

Can't we just wait and see what the concrete specs are for both, which is probably more like E3 2020 not now. Even then you need to see real world performance of games, and not launch ones either. 2nd wave games and beyond start to show real power and that is holiday 2021+

All this tittle tattle over non existent specs and maybes is silly.

Ok people, you heard it. Let's close all speculation threads until 2021 to stop silliness.

 

[Bani]

I been on GAF for over a decade. You'd just have to trust me on this one lol.



It was exactly that way for the PS4 and Xbox One. Actually it was worse. The PS4 was the more powerful console and it was still $100 cheaper.

If it had not been Kinect in the package with the first Xbox, now you certainly would not say so, I mean to say that the Xbox one would be a lot stronger console than PS 4, which Anaconda will certainly be, whether you like it or not

 

[Gamernyc78]

Can't we just wait and see what the concrete specs are for both, which is probably more like E3 2020 not now. Even then you need to see real world performance of games, and not launch ones either. 2nd wave games and beyond start to show real power and that is holiday 2021+

All this tittle tattle over non existent specs and maybes is silly.

The discussion is happening bcus ppl are bored and there haven't been any recent good rumors

If it had not been Kinect in the package with the first Xbox, now you certainly would not say so, I mean to say that the Xbox one would be a lot stronger console than PS 4, which Anaconda will certainly be, whether you like it or not

You don't know this, stop making assumptions and stop making excuses. Bottom line no one knows which will be more powerful and what Phil says doesn't dictate what Sony does. Like some of you seem brainwashed, no disrespect. Its like the ppl here tht mention tht Microsoft is a trillion dollar company lol that doesn't mean gaming has unlimited resources all depts are tied to a budget usually dictated by the income and profit thy make.

 

[Shin]

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The discussion is happening bcus ppl are bored and there haven't been any recent good rumors

But there's never any real discussion in 'tech' threads because 90% of the posts are made by complete fucking morons

 

[Gamernyc78]

But there's never any real discussion in 'tech' threads because 90% of the posts are made by complete fucking morons

Thats fine, let them live. What's better? Arm chair analysts spewing the same bs numbers over and over? Psuedo smart morons Instead

Jking but I get what your saying. Idk I guess I'm desensitized, all forums are like this.

 

[GermanZepp]

I been on GAF for over a decade. You'd just have to trust me on this one lol.

Ok but you can't use that for an entire year.

 

[LordOfChaos]

AMD says “we need to start to talk about our ray tracing strategy”

The latest from the corporate world is that AMD could be readying up to talk ray tracing strategy

www.pcgamesn.com

 

[DeepEnigma]

For example
Anaconda 12 TF, 500$
PS5 8 TF, 400$
Lockhart 4 TF 300$
You can't expect PS 5 to be like Anaconda and being 100 dollars cheaper doesn't work that way
People expect miracles

The wild 8TF appears again.

 

[FranXico]

The wild 8TF appears again.

It's like some people are wishing, with all of their soul, that the PS5 will be underpowered. Like that even matters more to them than having a powerful Xbox in the first place.

 

[ethomaz]

The wild 8TF appears again.

It baffles me how 8TF is $400 and 12TF $500.
If PS5 is 8TF you can expect a difference bigger than $100.

 

[Fake]

#team8tf
#teamzen3

 

[demigod]

For example
Anaconda 12 TF, 500$
PS5 8 TF, 400$
Lockhart 4 TF 300$
You can't expect PS 5 to be like Anaconda and being 100 dollars cheaper doesn't work that way
People expect miracles

I'll bet you a PS5 that its not going to be 8TF.

 

[demigod]

It is not only me look at any article about the next-gen reveal at E3 last year... all of them hear the same thing.

Just watch the stream you will understand.

Again = X effect again.

They aim to the same benchmark as X.

If there is no "again" after Phil talk about X then I could think like you.

I see the xbox fans are already trying to spin for Phil "if" they end up being on par or weaker than ps5. Everyone who watched the conference knows exactly what Phil meant.

 

[ethomaz]

I see the xbox fans are already trying to spin for Phil "if" they end up being on par or weaker than ps5. Everyone who watched the conference knows exactly what Phil meant.

Yeap... who watched the conferences know he said they are going to the performance crow.

Everything You Need To Know About Xbox Series X

We've rounded up every little bit of information about Xbox Series X, Microsoft's next-generation console.

www.gamespot.com

"However, the latter half of his quote--about setting the benchmark for console gaming--surely refers to a new generation, where it sounds as if Microsoft wants to come out swinging with the most powerful console available, just as it did with the Xbox One X. "

It is odd some guys here trying to spin what Phil said.

The "again" refer to Xbox One X most powerful console in the world... Phil clearly said they want to set that benchmark again with Scarlet.

But hey some can continue in their dreams.

Eurogamer even did a interviews about that E3 Phil claims...

"It is how most people think of an Xbox. An Xbox is something you plug into your TV. It's the world's most powerful console - I like saying that! - and you get to play great games on your television. I want that to continue. And I don't want that to just continue in words. I want it to continue in action. In the last two years we've shipped the S console, which I love, and the X console - we said what it was going to do, and I love the fact we were able to deliver that.

A chat with Phil Spencer about next gen Xbox consoles

During Microsoft's E3 2018 media briefing, Xbox boss Phil Spencer announced work had begun on "the next Xbox consoles".…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Gamernyc78]

Oh we still have the mistermedia ppl spreading rumors of an 8tf PS5? Lol ppl just don't learn and live eating crow in the end.

 

[Fake]

The "again" refer to Xbox One X most powerful console in the world... Phil clearly said they want to set that benchmark again with Scarlet.

To be honest its easy to say they will continue with the 'world most powerful console', but the fact is they release the X one year later than PRO.
Unless they follow the same path of releasing the 'most powerful console' a later time than the competition, its hard to think about that unless someone at Microsoft already have more info about PS5 specs for counter match.

 

[ethomaz]

To be honest its easy to say they will continue with the 'world most powerfull console', but in fact they release the X one year later.
Unless they follow the same path, its hard to think about that unless someone at Microsoft already have more info about PS5 specs for counter match.

MS has info about PS5 that is sure like Sony has info about NextXbox but these info will be changed until the final hardware... that is why both are avoiding to set public numbers.

That is why MS is having trouble to define what they will share that E3.

They can't come and say 13TFs... Sony can just bump PS5 to 13.1TFs... so they need to wait... because MS clearly want the title of most powerful console in the world for Anaconda. MS will try to launch with PS5 being more powerful even if expensive or just a bit more powerful... that is the key strategy with 2 models and that they claim worked pretty well with X.

I will be surprised if MS give us any clock, numbers of CUs, amount of RAM this E3.
MS and Sony are playing poker right now... waiting each other to expose their hands.