LordOfChaos
Member
2:48 that Xbox one X estimate looks about right, that's what we're in for (and then he underclocks it to console expected clocks later)
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2:48 that Xbox one X estimate looks about right, that's what we're in for (and then he underclocks it to console expected clocks later)
Imtjnotu
Member
Don't even start this shit
bitbydeath
Member
If Xbox and PS5 used that hardware it would release this year.
SonGoku
Member
Free healthcare ain't cheap
TeamGhobad
Banned
thats where our 30% income tax goes to.
Aceofspades
Banned
LordOfChaos
Member
30% income tax?! That's ridiculous
It's not that far above the 25% marginal rate most people in the US would fall into
And Canada
"0% from 0 kronor to 18,800 kronor
- Circa 32% (ca. 11% county and 20% municipality tax which is the Swedish average): from 18,800 kronor to 468,700 kronor
- 32% + 20%: from 468,700 kronor to 675,700 kronor
- 32% + 25%: above 675,700 kronor[4]
What's your countries?
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demigod
Member
Does that include dental or just medical?
vpance
Member
It was always going to be a good leap. Dev tricks and optimizations are going to go an even longer way this gen.
Worst case we'll see are current gen games quality bumped up to 4K60.
SonGoku
Member
When did the Vega64 suddenly became the benchmark for next gen? that's such a shitty GPU that isn't even double Scorpio performance
<2x is a very tiny jump for next gen
Devs will still make impressive results but its nothing impressive for next gen.
On 7nm EUV all predictions are out the window, even 14TF its not so crazy (though i personally expect 11-13TF)Damn.....That knee in the face will hurt so much when specs get announced!
On 7nm DUV they can land on 10-11TF which would match a RTX 2080, pretty decent jump
Penello doesn't work for MS anymore
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
I can't see how they could given the power/thermals of the 7.5TF 5700. Add a 8c 3-3.2GHz Zen 2 and 10-11TF just isn't realistic. Similarly 14TF on EUV.
If you are talking in GCN equivalent per/watt terms then I would agree Vega 56-Vega 64 (i.e. 10-12TF) would be about right as the 5700 does seem to match well with them.
TeamGhobad
Banned
not dental, its free until you're 19. but the rates are very reasonable. there is no 50k to fix your teeth. i fixed 2 cavities for like 400 dollars.
SonGoku
Member
Granted 11TF would be pushing the limits of what's possible in a console at 7nm DUV but certainly doable with good cooling like a full length vapor chamber
Lower clocks and voltage.
- 54CUs @ 1500Mhz = 10.36TF (very likely)
- 54CUs @ 1550Mhz = 10.7TF
- 54CUs @ 1592Mhz = 11TF (best case scenario) (250W total system)
- 72CUs @1520 = 14TF
More confident on this for EUV:
- 60CUs @ 1500Mhz = 11.5TF
- 60CUs @ 1600Mhz = 12.28TF
- 60CUs @ 1693Mhz = 13TF
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
We'll see SonGoku. I don't expect more than 9TF Navi and if it is somehow more then I'm even happier. If it does turn out these consoles are at/below 9TF will you not buy either and be disappointed/shocked?
SonGoku
Member
If its 9TF it better be $400 and if its less than 9TF im not biting until it hits $299
I'd be disappointed for sure with only 2x (or less) the real world performance the X GPU.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
can u do 4k60 with only 9? also jason said both ms and sony were aiming above the 10.7 of stadia.
Insane Metal
Member
No. Consoles hardly ever use hardware from the year they release.
SonGoku
Member
PS4, PS4 Pro and XBONEX say hi.
ArabianPrynce
Member
If it ends up being 8tflops that shit better 399. no fucking way i am paying 500 for that shit. though i do suspect its gonna end up being 400, i hate to say but consoles ultimately low ball when it comes to specs and devs use their skills to make the consoles punch above their weight, dont see how next gen is different other than having an ssd.
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
WIth the new architecture 8 teraflops maybe equivalent to 10-12 Radeon. Outside the numbers, if the console provides a huge upgrade I will bite for $399. The whole loading thing has me very interested because I like rockstar games and can see a huge advantage.
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Insane Metal
Member
What? The PS4 had a kind of modified 7850 GPU which is a card released around a year and a half before it.
SonGoku
Member
lol no the PS4 GPU was on par with the 290X GCN feature set
If you don't like that example that still leaves Pro and X
$299 or fuck off with that performance
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TeamGhobad
Banned
the market is ready for 500 dollar systems. 450 is also an option. the people will not accept another subpar system that doesn't do full 4k60. the people need a reason to upgrade.
SonGoku
Member
tbh even with 14.2TF I expect devs to target 30fps to push insane visuals
A 1440p 60fps mode might be possible depending of how much CPU headroom there is
TeamGhobad
Banned
this is awful. if this happens we will get another midgen refresh. 60fps is a must.
SonGoku
Member
framerate is a developer design choice, the only way to guarantee 60fps is PC (bruteforce)
Of coursrse certain devs are known to target 60 fps (dice, cod, idtech, respawn etc) so those games will now hit locked 60fps with less compromises
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Its the same thing every gen. Dev claims system isn't powerful enough to get good frames, AI, physics etc.... wait till next gen.
Next gen comes, 30 fps games persist and it's the same excuse for decades.
Why program improved gameplay, polished games, better AI, animations or physics when the recent pushes lately are shiny hair strands and ray tracing.
Who knew gamers have been secretly begging for better hair and lighting effects. I'm positive gamers have been wanting the other stuff on years on forums requests, but I guessed I missed all the threads. Didn't know gamers wanted better hair and fancy lighting for next gen pushes the whole time.
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bitbydeath
Member
Plus PS2 and PS3. (Emotion engine and Cell)
SonGoku
Member
and 360 (unified shaders)
tbf never before seen innovative gameplay can be created by pushing the new cpus to the limit at 30fps
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Mass Shift
Member
Yeah, this gen the consoles were anything but spectacular as far as tech. They felt like they were way behind the curve before they even launched.
Last Gen PS3 had CELL. MS went even further on the 360 with things like unified shaders, memexport etc.
Eh, id argue that consoles pretty typically have some GPU/CPU features that do not appear in the mainstream parts for a generation or two. Whether or not these features have a huge performance benefit is another question entirely.
Paiky
Neo Member
Imtjnotu
Member
bhunachicken
Member
Worth repeating:
Devs: We've got the game running at 64fps in 4K with everything a match for ultra settings on PC.
Bosses: Oh, so you've cycles to spare? Add more bling.
Devs: Okay, we're now at 61fps.
Bosses: More bling! More worthless effects that no one's going to notice, other than the pixel counters!
Devs: We're now averaging 59fps
Bosses: Lock at 30fps.
Aceofspades
Banned
I think consoles makers are unfairly squeezed by consumers in this industry. Nvidia is selling at a premium, Apple does that too.
I believe consoles are the most advanced pieces of tech that are still selling for cheap. $300, 400...hell even $600 is cheap when you get mid tier phone for higher than that
On you PC you see "geeks" spends thousands on a GPU just to shave a second from Cinebench
, and now Songoku san is stating that an 8 TF navi box should be $299?! The card itself is $350..and you are ignoring the SSD, CPU, Motherboard, casing, controllers....etc you want all that for a $299 which is basically the price of low end chinese phone... c'mon manI know the comparison with phones is not ideal, but we have to appreciate the amount of tech inside these consoles that are selling for really cheap .
KlickKlack
Banned
quote and source pls
I hope all racing games and fps next gen will run at 60 fps locked,considering the boost in cpu if they don't i'm not buying them,same reason i didn't buy CTR end of this gen nearly and the development team think it's ok for the game to run at 30 fps,even on xbox x, utterly pathetic!
llien
Banned
Universal (not free) healthcare is ubiquitous across EU, including France and Germany.
Anyhow, Sweden being part of the EU market, they should have no problem buying stuff in other EU countries.
jonnyp
Member
You actually think we will ever get mandatory 60fps on consoles? I don't understand why people keep dreaming about this.
And even if it did come true why would it stop a mid-gen refresh? Midgen will be like 2023-2024 and 3nm EUV will be available.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
It's confirmed Navi HATES 4k.
do you think nexbox manages 1080p60 now?
do you think nexbox manages 1080p60 now?
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So what does the bolded really mean for gaming?
llien
Banned
Well, expectations of what AMD could deliver where much lower prior to Navi 5700/5700XT launch.
Now it's all sunny.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Framerate nerds have got to realize that you are the minority. Most of us gamers don't care or need all our games to run at 60 fps. Just make sure the framerate is stable and you're fine. If that's at 30 fps, then that's great!
LordOfChaos
Member
A heck of a lot more particle physics next gen. Dust, ash, embers, sparks, etc. Assuming the result isn't broken in some way.
My pet theory is that it's also a partial step into building out RDNA 2.0 for hybrid RT, the same logic that calculates particle physics really fast should also be applicable to ray tracing, if made even faster.
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Shmunter
Member
Don't listen to the 30fps wowsers. It's always true that the devs make choices and compromises, but after this gen's 60 renaissance, next gen will solidify it.
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Burrito Bandito
Banned
It's not that far above the 25% marginal rate most people in the US would fall into
And Canada
"0% from 0 kronor to 18,800 kronor
"
- Circa 32% (ca. 11% county and 20% municipality tax which is the Swedish average): from 18,800 kronor to 468,700 kronor
- 32% + 20%: from 468,700 kronor to 675,700 kronor
- 32% + 25%: above 675,700 kronor[4]
What's your countries?
you are presenting a VERY misleading view on Swedish (and most european taxes).
Yea they pay 30% income tax but they also pay and ADDITIONAL 30% in hidden taxes. Sweden has a personal tax rate of over 60%. So yea, "free" health care really isnt expensive.
The US also subsidizes their defense spending and medial R&D
http://www.newgeography.com/content/00814-swedens-taxes-the-hidden-costs-the-welfare-state
As far as Canada goes, yea their health system is great for people who only get check ups and go to the doctors for scrapes and boo boos but people who live close to the border typically go to the US for any major surgeries because they will actually get quality on-time care.
The funny thing is, is that the people who praise their system are the people who only go a couple times a year for boo boos and see that its "free". But if they were to just pay out of pocket for those visits without the extra tax burden that pays for their "free" healthcare then they would actually save money
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