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Lort
Banned
If the Microsoft game is released on PC and xbox which are both Microsoft platforms then you need to add them together... then they have way more market share than Sony....
If you wanna talk about market share ios and android dwaf everything else. Thats where by far the most money is spent on games and Apple just started to take this seriously ... Apple Arcade is shaking up the market like Microsoft Gamepass.
If your a playstation fanboy to the end then you just pretend all of this isnt happening or doesn't count. When you actually look at the market Sony is one of the smaller players.. they know this which is why they are already hinting at releasing Sony games for other platforms. Sony dosent make phones, tablets, PCs or cloud infrastructure Its a niche player and its future is games which they will release cross platform. Right now you can play PS exclusives on PSNow without a playstation right?
Negotiator
Banned
OG PS4 initially was destined to have the camera in every console sold (around $460), but Sony removed it. Smart move.
That's why the PS4 OS/firmware still has the Playroom (camera game) pre-installed to this very day. There's no option to remove/uninstall it.
FrostyJ93
Member
Yeah and they wanted to undercut MS when they announced their price. Again last minute change.
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TLZ
Banned
That party's finished.
TLZ
Banned
I hope that happens again. It's all for our gain in the end.
FrostyJ93
Member
So how I think they will handle expandable storage: external drives will act as "cold storage". Games get stored there but dont run off of the external hard drive. The consoles will keep like your last 6 or 7 games you played stored onto the internal ssd and swap as needed depending on which game you pick.
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Nero_PR
Banned
I will buy it anyway (not at launch). I have the money just not right now hahaha. But seriously, I have some big money to get from my office. Probably I will have a lot to spare on the PS5 and a new high end PC by 2020. If I don't invest this money back so I can get more money haha.
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Audiophile
Member
It wouldn't be a split memory pool in the same sense as the PS3.
On the PS3 it was the CPU/System primarily had access to 256MB of DDR RAM and the GPU/Video primarily had access to 256MB of XDR RAM.
The examples we've seen so far in these supposed "leaks" point to two different pools of RAM that are tiered: 8GB of HBM2 is the high speed tier and
There are actually some downsides to a Unified Memory Architecture for CPU/GPU and one is memory contention, using totally arbitrary numbers to convey the point: if there's say, 100GB/s total bandwidth and the CPU needs 20GB/s of bandwidth it won't leave 80GB/s for the GPU, due to latency and different calculations it may "lock up" 40GB/s and only leave 60GB/s. Cerny and co. implemented an additional bus in the PS4 to alleviate this somewhat, but the fine-grained system mentioned above may be a superior solution if balanced just right.
I think it's a very clever solution, though I'd still love to see a 16/16 split, 8/16 still seems a little tight to me, thinking ahead 7-8yrs.
nowhat
Member
Yeah... that may........ be..... how you..... think...... but the............ reality....... is.... that.... they........ are.... so....... obviously...... biased.... unless.... you're an...... obvious........ shill.
rəddəM
Member
Well, there's that bit where games won't need to duplicate data to compensate hard drive lag.
So games with no videos (in-game cutscenes), good compression and built* with SSDs in mind could be significantly smaller in size.
But I doubt games are actually gonna get smaller...
So I'm too very curious about the size and expandability of the storage solution in next gen.
Perhaps some exchange system between SSD and external? IDK...
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sonomamashine
Member
I'm surprised no one noticed the difference between The Last Of Us Part 2 early Dev Kit (PS5) E3 graphics vs the new (release) trailer showcasing the PS4 Pro.
FranXico
Member
Which differences are you referring to?
Racer!
Member
Probably because its in your head.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
No I suspect $499, but if you compare the prices of that spec now, it is similar to the PC equivalent parts on the PS4
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Ok, show proof of bias.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Holy shit lol, there are quite a few downgrades there, however some comparisons don't count because of the difference in lighting.
nowhat
Member
I feel you sarcasm detector may be malfunctioning. You may want to get that checked. It's not like I'm referring to a certain poster here, but that will be my last word on it.
sonomamashine
Member
Well it's not like that, and it's not only lighting & graphics, the most obvious are the colors, i've been saying that The Last Of Us 2 & Ghost Of Tsushima Demo's we saw at E3 are not current gen, it's like when you look at a painting and you know this can paint that and ps4 is way to weak to paint that (you get what i'm saying ?)
Jigsaah
Gold Member
They wont be talking about TF in the next gen. Its irrelevant to discuss those numbers given that the architecture has improved to a great degree in both consoles. Comparing 6 TF(X) to whatever Scarlett has in terms of absolute numbers will not be a fair comparison. For example a 6 TF Xbox one X compared to a 12 TF Scarlett wont be just a 100% increase in compute power. Theres more to it than that now.
Racer!
Member
That comparison shows nothing. Comparing different scenes with quality compressed to hell and back.
The 2019 reveal shows several of the same scenes, and there is no difference.
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Uncharted 4 was also scaled back a bit from earlier demo.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Someone made a whole thread in this or did it in another thread and showed how ellie still looks the same in different lighting.
Nice try, try again this isn't Microsoft levels of Crackdown 3 lol
You were probably a puddle gate spinner too and we know how tht gem turned out
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sonomamashine
Member
Someone made a whole thread in this or did it in another thread and showed how ellie still looks the same in different lighting.
Nice try, try again this isn't Microsoft levels of Crackdown 3 lol
You were probably a puddle gate spinner too and we know how tht gem turned out
I really don't care about your opinion, you are way off, this is not your forte, feels like i'm gonna get myself debating with fans, step aside.
So what you saying is that TLOU2 gonna come out on PS4 & not on PS5 as a launch title ?
I mean the PS4/PS5 version are pretty much done cooking.
Why it can't be the PS5 version of the game made in an early kit, graphics ain't good enough for a next gen version ?
Unless you're team 14Tf then i understand the denial.
If you wanna make a new thread, then make a new thread. Don't derail this thread with back-and-forth exclusives list wars and compressed YouTube videos.
Imtjnotu
Member
Game pass shook the industry?If the Microsoft game is released on PC and xbox which are both Microsoft platforms then you need to add them together... then they have way more market share than Sony....
If you wanna talk about market share ios and android dwaf everything else. Thats where by far the most money is spent on games and Apple just started to take this seriously ... Apple Arcade is shaking up the market like Microsoft Gamepass.
If your a playstation fanboy to the end then you just pretend all of this isnt happening or doesn't count. When you actually look at the market Sony is one of the smaller players.. they know this which is why they are already hinting at releasing Sony games for other platforms. Sony dosent make phones, tablets, PCs or cloud infrastructure Its a niche player and its future is games which they will release cross platform. Right now you can play PS exclusives on PSNow without a playstation right?
ethomaz
Banned
The Last of Us never ran on early PS5 devkit lol
BTW your videos shows pretty close graphics.
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sonomamashine
Member
How this is not related to the thread ? (speculation/analysis thread)
A look at a (potential) early next gen title that development started alongside PS4 version (PS5, Vega 56 Kit) graphics that would help determine the % of what to expect between these graphics (Vega 56) and Navi 5700xt perf and get the idea of +30%/+40% upgrade next gen might deliver.
www.digitalfoundry.net has source files, that's what i'm judging, the downgrade is not related to video compression, clearly since some people didn't notice hence the video i linked for side to side comparison.
Didn't do that.
Not the same.
rəddəM
Member
Really? From a Brazilian channel called Canal XBox? You picked the worst possible type of XBot on this planet.
Yes, the E3 2018 demo looks better. It looks almost perfect (specially the animation).
But as I said, you have to be the worst type of XBot to even have the courage to nitpick about it because the game still looks impressive as hell.
One thing a didn't like about the new showing is that Ellie's backpack looks way to baggy, mushy and it moves way more than the E3 demo.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i love how the shotgun comparison uses one scene from the trailer released the same day as the new gameplay footage and labels it 2018.
there is definitely a downgrade when it comes to detail on the faces, but this guy has serious issues. there are several scenes in the trailer that look identical to the 2018 demo.
Audiophile
Member
I'd have liked to have seen a bigger chip going wide and slow (which is what I previously expected of Sony, though it looks like they may be going narrow and fast this time)..
First of all, start with 2 Shader Engines.. Instead of 10 Work Groups (WGP) & 20 Compute Units (CU) per Shader Engine (SE), have 14 WGP & 28 CU per SE.
Disable 1 WGP & 2 CU per SE leaving you with 13 WGP & 26 CU per SE or 26 WGP & 52 CU total over 2 SE.
This can be clocked much lower netting you 10TF @ 1500MHz and give you much more efficient usage of space.
Two standard Shader Engines with 10 WGP & 20 CU each means it has to be clocked much higher for good performance. Going to 3 (or even 4!) standard Shader Engines means much bigger chips and a boat-load of front-end silicone being wasted.
First of all, start with 2 Shader Engines.. Instead of 10 Work Groups (WGP) & 20 Compute Units (CU) per Shader Engine (SE), have 14 WGP & 28 CU per SE.
Disable 1 WGP & 2 CU per SE leaving you with 13 WGP & 26 CU per SE or 26 WGP & 52 CU total over 2 SE.
This can be clocked much lower netting you 10TF @ 1500MHz and give you much more efficient usage of space.
Two standard Shader Engines with 10 WGP & 20 CU each means it has to be clocked much higher for good performance. Going to 3 (or even 4!) standard Shader Engines means much bigger chips and a boat-load of front-end silicone being wasted.
Negotiator
Banned
I'm not very familiar with the Brazilian scene, but I'd like to read BrazilGAF's opinion about that guy (preferably in a new thread).
rəddəM
Member
Trust me it's just not worth it.
Please let us continue with next gen discussion.
rəddəM
Member
Excuse me, WHAT!?
Imtjnotu
Member
He's just talking out his ass
relax and don't get pulled in by the troll
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Thanks for the explanation. But, it still leaves a big question: why go with DDR4? That memory's being phased out for DDR5, which is going to be more expensive at least for a good while. Right now you can find GDDR5 chips for almost half the price of DDR4 chips, and that's just through public wholesalers. I'd imagine it would hold true with private purchasers too.
I don't know how much HBM memory currently costs, or how much HBM2 costs to purchase, but I'm guessing it's a few dollars more per chip than GDDR6. And public wholesale prices for GDDR6 go for between $16-$24 on average depending on the capacity. Obviously, private purchasers like Sony and MS are going to get it for a lot lower per chip because they're buying in bulks of millions on contract deals.
But if that trend in pricing holds true in what I've seen between GDDR and DDR memories, GDDR6 currently isn't that much more expensive than DDR4 per chip. In some cases it's lower depending on what specific type of both we're talking about. So if they wanted to go with split memory pools, what benefits would Sony and Microsoft have using DDR4 instead of GDDR6?
Split pool of HBM2 and GDDR6; the bandwidth and speed differences wouldn't be as drastic between those as it'd be between HBM2 and DDR4, and the total price for the BOM would average out about the same. Is bandwidth between a combined HBM2/GDDR6 pool and the APU Sony and Microsoft are using an issue (as in, would the APU not have enough juice to feed that much memory with that much bandwidth)? Or is there a TDP issue that'd come up (GDDR6 needs more power than DDR4)? Or would it just be easier in a system architecture POV to do a split pool between regular memory and graphics memory than two types of graphics memory (I'm just saying graphics in that GDDR at least was developed for graphics in mind; it obviously can be used for non-graphics tasks as current gen has shown)?
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Fake
Member
Its about posting next gen hardware conversation/info, not about posting games comparison console war fuel.
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alabtrosMyster
Member
Again a video made by some idiot comparing completely different and circumstantial lighting effects, blood splatters, etc.... too compressed to show any details.
You could not make this up.
Chronos24
Member
So are we convinced the companies won't sell at some sort of loss at the beginning of the new console cycle? I've read a lot about BOM and everything but I believe this current gen has shown people do care about power of console, and if power is what we want then cost is what we'll pay, and cost is what they'll incur putting powerful and fairly expensive hardware in these consoles. I feel like this next gen is being undervalued somewhat and we may be in for a surprise on just how powerful next gen consoles are going to be. I must comment that 399 just does not seem plausible at launch for what is coming. Microsoft even went with the wording "premium" to justify the cost of the One X when it launched. What did we get? a damn powerful and for all intents quiet and efficient console. 499 I believe is the new standard going forward. 399 just doesn't scream "premium" to me for what we expect to come.
bhunachicken
Member
How would something like this affect backward compatibility on the PS5? The PS4 has 8GB RAM, with about 5.5GB being available to developers. As I understand, devs are able to allocate RAM to the GPU as they desire (I'm not sure if it's possible to change this at run time).
If the PS5 had a RAM/VRAM split, it would mean some comedy for the API development.
I can only imagine that if it were 8 + 12, when the PS5 is playing PS4 titles it would expose just the 8GB and let the usual RAM/VRAM allocation take place. But does that then mean the VRAM is somehow faked? Personally, I don't see it happening, as it could cause problems such as the above.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Better to have more than less if they do it. 5 years down the line textures will way ram intensive I guessLol 24Gb of Ram and 1$ per 1Gbaaaaaaaaaa, what tha hell is this, 24Gb is way much, i don't see that happening.
some fusion Drive (HDD + SSD combo)
between 16Gb - 20Gb of Ram
between 9Tf - 11Tf MAX (i'm being very generous right now)
KlickKlack
Banned
"This is unquestionably true."
not true for pc.
no one pc player will switch to a consol for a exclusives game...
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
The Flute Userbenchmark seemed to indicate 16GB GDDR6 for the PS5. Memory had an unusually high latency for the test...
Most of the DDR4 kits I was looking at had substantially lower latency.
I believe I found a test bench for SuborZ+, which used GDDR5 as main memory and it has 139ns-150ns latency.
The Flute memory is probably "unknown" because it's newer Samsung 18Gbps modules.
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ANIMAL1975
Member
A devkit with only 16GB of memory!?
Mass Shift
Member
Engineering sample, not a dev kit.
Kazekage1981
Member
as predicted, the RAM size available of ps5 is slightly more than a HD-DVD disk. They are probably using the other 4-5GB for OS footprint.
bhunachicken
Member
What are we looking at here? I'm not entirely sure.
The CPU seems right for what other leaks have said, but the storage is a 7200RPM HDD. We know this isn't true, as there is going to be a dedicated SSD in there. As for the RAM - yes, the latency is higher than would be expected. Also, am I reading it right that it's using 16 1GB modules? Honestly, I'd expect larger amounts, 2GB or 4GB. I think more channels is more efficient, but there is space and cost to be considered.
Maybe this is an early devkit or prototype? I believe Sony has in the past sent devkit revisions out as new features have been introduced and specs have been locked down.*
(* - well, expect that Shadowfall was built for a 4GB machine)
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