Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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36 CU makes a lot of sense for Sony to easily do backward compatibility, much like they did with the Pro.

But maybe there is also some extra sauce on the side?!
 
I see alot of people mention that by Sony keeping to a 36 cu count that it helps with back compat.
Why is it that MS doesn't have this same issue? Why are they able to give back compat not only for Xbox One, but also 360 and even OG Xbox?
 
Nickolaidas said:
www.tweaktown.com

PlayStation 5 to support 8K gaming, Sony confirms

PS5's 8K output isn't just for video, Sony confirms it'll play games at 8K too.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com

PS5 = supports 8K gaming
PS5 = 9TFs

Yeah, something's not right.
Click to expand...

Supports != every title runs at 8K, not everything in a frame is actually shaded at that resolution/accuracy, PS5 is not 3 TFLOPS slower than Series X for all we know it could be slower, the same, or faster. Neither MS nor Sony confirmed a thing.
 
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Rightisright said:
I see alot of people mention that by Sony keeping to a 36 cu count that it helps with back compat.
Why is it that MS doesn't have this same issue? Why are they able to give back compat not only for Xbox One, but also 360 and even OG Xbox?
Click to expand...

I don't higher think CU count is any problem for BC.
 
Rightisright said:
I see alot of people mention that by Sony keeping to a 36 cu count that it helps with back compat.
Why is it that MS doesn't have this same issue? Why are they able to give back compat not only for Xbox One, but also 360 and even OG Xbox?
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They spent more money on software emulators and Xbox 360 was less tricky to emulate than PS3.Also, MS was successful in creating the perception that Xbox One emulates 100% of the Xbox 360 and OG Xbox library while they only actually emulate a fraction of either.

One smart side effect of the fully virtualised approach to the Xbox One, where you have a thin hyper visor abstraction layer (based on a virtual CPU and virtual GPU abstractions) on top of which a slightly more generalised game OS and system OS have been implemented would be easier BC, with improvements too, if the next architecture and software stack (OS, graphics libraries, etc...) are not incredibly dissimilar. PS3 also implemented had a game OS and system OS sitting on top of a hyper visor layer, but I am not sure the CPU and GPU were fully virtualised and the PS4 architecture was just too different to brute force emulation of the older machine.
Now, an 8 core Ryzen 2 running at ~3 GHz and with a 256 bits wide AVX2 vector unit per core and tons of cache has a much better chance at emulating the CELL CPU and thus PS3.

Not sure the conservative approach to 100% perfect BC Sony took with PS4 Pro has much to relate to PS5's design and approach to BC.
 
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Imtjnotu said:
So the machine that is going to replace the X is some how supposed to be half the price with more specs.

Phew this place seems to be doing good tonight lol
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What are you on about? You're losing it now.

All that was claimed was that the rumoured Lockhart will compete with the PS5 on price. Lockhart (if it arrives) will be cheaper and less powerful than the PS5. Maybe you are confusing Lockhart with the XSX perhaps? It sounds like it.
 
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TBiddy said:
What are you on about? You're losing it now.
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The other guy said it would beat the ps5 in the pricing game because casuals don't care for graphics.

And the response I gave was if they were priced the same how would it compete with a stronger machine.

They then said it wouldn't cost as much.

We know lockhart is going to replace the X. Which is still $400. So if lockhart is stronger and better spec'd, how is it going to come in at half the price.

Clear up any misconceptions in what I said tbuddy?
 
Rightisright said:
I see alot of people mention that by Sony keeping to a 36 cu count that it helps with back compat.
Why is it that MS doesn't have this same issue? Why are they able to give back compat not only for Xbox One, but also 360 and even OG Xbox?
Click to expand...

MS are probably a lot more competent in this area for one, software compatibility across different hardware is basically who they are as a company for the last 40 years

PS4 games might be more coded 'to the metal' and unique than Xbox One games with their custom direct x api's

MS might be better at handling hardware differences with a software stack, plus planned ahead for it

There's a big difference between general hardware compatibility and perfect hardware compatibility. Emulation can be difficult so maybe Sony need the PS5 hardware to replicate the PS4's as close as possible

After Microsoft's BC efforts both this gen and upcoming, it's something that the PS5 simply has to have

Lastly if Sony do want to hit that 399 price tag, this kind of performance and APU size makes sense
 
SenjutsuSage said:
Microsoft has made clear that Xbox Series X is 4 to 5 times more powerful than Xbox One X. That's for overall raw performance jump.

For just GPUs however, purely on the numbers, it is over 8 times the xbox one GPU and twice the xbox one x GPU. He was referring to compute power, because even a 9TF navi GPU is easily more than 8 times more powerful than the xbox one GPU if we aren't talking purely teraflops.
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XSX 12TF RDNA2 should be around 16 Vega performance if you take into account architecture gains. Add to that VRS gains (VRS tier 2 shows up HUGE 75% performance improvement according to 3dmark) and XSX should theoretically deliver 4x higher framerate than xbox x in the same game.
 
Imtjnotu said:
The other guy said it would beat the ps5 in the pricing game because casuals don't care for graphics.

And the response I gave was if they were priced the same how would it compete with a stronger machine.

They then said it wouldn't cost as much.

We know lockhart is going to replace the X. Which is still $400. So if lockhart is stronger and better spec'd, how is it going to come in at half the price.

Clear up any misconceptions in what I said tbuddy?
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I think you've made your point a lot more clear. But it still doesn't make sense. Why would Microsoft release a low-end console only to have it hit the same price point as the PS5? It makes absolutely no sense. Of course Lockhart will be cheaper than both the PS5 and the X.
 
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I'm sure a 12tf x86 machine can easily virtualize a 1.8tf x86 machine (or 4tf) even if by brute force.
No need to sacrifice hw design just for BC.
 
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SenjutsuSage said:
Microsoft has made clear that Xbox Series X is 4 to 5 times more powerful than Xbox One X. That's for overall raw performance jump.

For just GPUs however, purely on the numbers, it is over 8 times the xbox one GPU and twice the xbox one x GPU. He was referring to compute power, because even a 9TF navi GPU is easily more than 8 times more powerful than the xbox one GPU if we aren't talking purely teraflops.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of that down to the move from Jaguar to Zen 2? The Zen 2 CPU is almost certainly at least 4 times as fast as the shitty Jaguar CPU of old.

As far as I'm aware when it comes to GPU specifically, all that has been stated is that it's twice as powerful. The 5700(XT) is twice as powerful as the RX580. Yes it has 4 fewer CU, but it's clocked significantly higher than the 1X which is enough to make up the deficit.
The XSX could quite easily use a 9.2TF Navi GPU and easily be MORE than twice as fast as the 1X, because it isn't being bottlenecked by a low frequency netbook CPU.
 
If all these data were true, the credibility of Klee and Jason disappears completely. They are journalists, even Klee commented that he wants to open his YouTube channel. They play their reputation because nothing said by them would be real since the difference in power is not small, PS5 not only would not be behind, but far behind Xbox. Also with 9.2 tflops PS5 at no time would have had the most powerful dev kit, they would have lied to us. All this does not add up to anything.
 
CurryPanda said:
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Well that is interesting. Seems that both those parts are indeed straight up Navi 10 derivatives. No VRS or RTRT hardware is also interesting given that Mark Cerny specifically stated that the PS5 will have RTRT hardware built into the GPU.
Is that by the work of a fixed function ASIC/FPGA? Or are these chips merely very early samples.

Would be interesting to get time information
 
CurryPanda said:
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So either Mark Cerny lied about PS5 RT or those were the pre-RT devkits.

Then Cerny does the same thing on a next-gen devkitconnected to a different TV. (The devkit, an early "low-speed" version, is concealed in a big silver tower, with no visible componentry.)
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www.wired.com

Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation

Don't expect it anytime in 2019, but the next PlayStation console is well on its way—and it's packing ray-tracing support and a loadtime-killing solid-state hard drive.
www.wired.com www.wired.com

If they're even PS5 related at all.
 
Maybe the PS5 is weak and below 9TF, who knows.

Or maybe this rumor from long time ago is true, who knows.
Exclusive: In the hustle and bustle of Computex, I had an interesting conversation with someone who will remain anonymous, about Sony's next-gen PlayStation console.
After I had found out what this person did, I had a few questions to ask about the PS5 and what it will arrive as - especially when we look at Microsoft's upcoming Project Scorpio console. The first question I had was "will it feature a discrete GPU" to which I received a smile and a "I can't say exactly", and then I said would it feature an APU like Project Scorpio, and then there was a "no".
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The odds of there being no hardware accelerated RT in the PS5 must be slim to none. The quote from Cerny is rather straight forward and I don't see how it can be interpreted in any other way;
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," he says, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."
 
TBiddy said:
The odds of there being no hardware accelerated RT in the PS5 must be slim to none. The quote from Cerny is rather straight forward and I don't see how it can be interpreted in any other way;
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," he says, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."
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It's definitely their own solution then. If it's not AMDs
 
Thief1987 said:
This is new? Sony updated patent for ds5(potentially), now include 4 movable buttons on back panel.
And render from letsgodigital
sony-playstation-dualshock-update.jpg
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It's designed off the patent that was uploaded to that Japanese site yesterday. So somewhat new in this case.
 
TBiddy said:
The odds of there being no hardware accelerated RT in the PS5 must be slim to none. The quote from Cerny is rather straight forward and I don't see how it can be interpreted in any other way;
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," he says, "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for."
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Its just not found in driver level, not saying HW RT is not there.
 
That's why MS visualized their system, leveraging their knowledge in the servers. Also decoupling games from hardware, unlike Sony which must rely on hardware BC.
 
SlimySnake said:
no. the devkits support ray tracing. klee's game was on the ps5 devkit and had full ray tracing support for shadows and reflections.
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Rightisright said:
It can be based off Navi with the inclusion of RT. Last Gen the GPUs included stuff that wasn't found on other GCN cards.
Not saying this exactly what has happened, but MS and Sony are customizing these APUs to their own requirements.
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But THEN it would not be Navi 10.. There is still something missing here.. This chip as they leaked this night cannot be final silicon for PS5..
 
Th
onQ123 said:
So they can put 2 and 2 together & come up with 36 but not 72?
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That would need an almost 600mm2 die. While yields are quite good on N7, wafer costs are still high and you get fewer chips per wafer. Unlikely anyone would be willing to absorb that kind of cost, cause you can bet your ass AMD are gonna be commanding better margins than 2012 when they were desperate for sales volume.
 
Or you know, he datamined old info, the chip that was supposed to be for 2019.

All this info goes against Cerny(ray trace) and all the insiders including uzman(however you spell his name claiming bigger ps5).
 
TheTechnician said:
But THEN it would not be Navi 10.. There is still something missing here.. This chip as they leaked this night cannot be final silicon for PS5..
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Navi 10 only means first chip for AMD, not RDNA1 or 2. I dont think either will be full one or another, when these were designed they picked and chose what they want in it, not if they want RDNA1 or 2.
 
demigod said:
Or you know, he datamined old info, the chip that was supposed to be for 2019.

All this info goes against Cerny(ray trace) and all the insiders including uzman(however you spell his name claiming bigger ps5).
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Oh it was suppose to be released now in 2019? Heh you guys are changing your tune constantly.

Maybe so, but we went from 1.0GHZ to 1.8GHZ Gonzalo, to Oberon 2.0GHZ lately. With Oberon just being found out.

Ill leave that option open ofcourse, it might be the case, but aside from currently assumed PS5 codenames and Arden/Sparkman, where are these new PS codenames?
 
R600 said:
Because they use completely different drivers. You know, extended DX for MS...
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Direct X is an API. Drivers are completely different - they're the software layer that enables interaction with th GPU hardware. I mean it's possible the hardware has features not supported by drivers, but that seems pretty pointless.
 
Michael Pachter said PS5 will be $800 because of the specs he saw.

Gearbox CEO who's publishing a PS5 game is not impressed with a 12TF XSEX.

I think we're in for a treat come February. :messenger_sunglasses:

Or maybe not. :messenger_loudly_crying:

Not too long now.
 
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BattleScar said:
Direct X is an API. Drivers are completely different - they're the software layer that enables interaction with th GPU hardware. I mean it's possible the hardware has features not supported by drivers, but that seems pretty pointless.
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Or maybe RT in PS5 is custom, unlike in Xbox, who knows. I am just laughing because chip clocked at 2.0GHZ with 36CUs and 16GB of RAM that points to PS5 exists.
 
R600 said:
Oh it was suppose to be released now in 2019? Heh you guys are changing your tune constantly.

Maybe so, but we went from 1.0GHZ to 1.8GHZ Gonzalo, to Oberon 2.0GHZ lately. With Oberon just being found out.

Ill leave that option open ofcourse, it might be the case, but aside from currently assumed PS5 codenames and Arden/Sparkman, where are these new PS codenames?
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Uhh yeah it was the plan. Have you been living under a rock? Even Jason confirmed this.
 
demigod said:
Uhh yeah it was the plan. Have you been living under a rock? Even Jason confirmed this.
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Yea, and it was scrapped in 2017. Doubt these RDNA drivers and revisions have been there since 2016.

This is 99% PS5 and RT is custom, but lets wait and see.
 
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