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[joe_zazen]

As long as the CPU and storage system isn't too far behind, how could a slower GPU hold anything back. In your opinion, PC is limited to the capabilities of the weakest GPU available?

Lockhart should still move the baseline forward from last gen in most areas, unless it uses a 5400rpm spinner and a CPU that is 1/4 the power of the larger consoles. Games will be scaled down, not up. In MS's position, even lack of RT shouldn't really amount to much, it will be a long time before RT is a standard on the PC (too many old cards that don't have it), and MS and third-party games will be looking to support PC as well.

do you think this gen's multplat games would have been as good if there was a 2gb 0.4tf x1 cheap model at launch that ms demanded all games must run on? Imagine having to build games for that thing until the end of crossgen in 2023.

In what ways do you figure a 1080ti is limited by the existence of a 1050, just curious. The devs might not be happy, not saying that they are.

Really, look at some of the current gen ports on the Switch, they'll just scale down, and down, and down again if they have to.

yes, games like stardew valley can run on a gps all the wayup to 2080ti, but what about the more ambitious games that push tech? Will we see rdr2 switch? Or even gtav? Gpus are used for more than number of pixels, as is memory. And this is all based on everything else in lockhart being the same, which it probably isnt.

i mean, it is too late to lobby Gamer Phil, but maybe if it flops they will Zune it before 2030.

 

[MadAnon]

Someone put r600 on suicide watch he put all his eggs in Komachi's basket.

Even though one of his other twitter sources said amd were still to deliver a big Navi for Sony...

Guess that's what happens when you only use what suits you story.

We don't know where that E revision stands. It could be the same 36CU Oberon just like Ariel was before.

 

[Reindeer]

Has Komachi deleted the tweet?

 

[xPikYx]

This whole Lockhart thing is putting me down, silly Microsoft bottlenecking the whole next gen for the sake of high resolution, very smart of them, pushing Softco to scale down next gen assets and than bumping up effects and resolution on the big system just for saying "hey series X runs 4k 60fps"

 

[joe_zazen]

We don't know where that E revision stands. It could be the same 36CU Oberon just like Ariel was before.

if it is 36, hot loud and under powered compared to xsx is guarantee, no?

It is a nice conundrum to work out: how does sony ship a competitive console at a mass market price with 36 cus? Why do some insiders say ps5 = or > sxs with amd documents saying 36 cu max and power graphs showing bad power/freq scaling?

pre launch 2013 was more fun, but 2020 still has some mysteries to be solved.

 

[DJ12]

We don't know where that E revision stands. It could be the same 36CU Oberon just like Ariel was before.

Correct not much more time until we find out some legit info though.

Seems unlikely, given r600 other 'trusted source' saying amd are yet to deliver sonys 'big navi' part but it still could be the same 36 cu part.

 

[Xenon]

 

[Reindeer]

do you think this gen's multplat games would have been as good if there was a 2gb 0.4tf x1 cheap model at launch that ms demanded all games must run on? Imagine having to build games for that thing until the end of crossgen in 2023.

It PS4 was able to do 1080p this gen at 1.84 tflops (GCN) then Lockhart should be able to do 1080p with 4 tflops (5 in GCN) if we assume that you need double the power (going by X to Series X) to run next gen games. I still think games later on will suffer like they are doing on PS4 and Xbox One S.

 

[Agnostic2020]

We don't know where that E revision stands. It could be the same 36CU Oberon just like Ariel was before.

One of the biggest navi leakers mentioned amd will be providing a big navi for ps5 in 2020.lets see . Not much left

 

[SportsFan581]

do you think this gen's multplat games would have been as good if there was a 2gb 0.4tf x1 cheap model at launch that ms demanded all games must run on? Imagine having to build games for that thing until the end of crossgen in 2023.



yes, games like stardew valley can run on a gps all the wayup to 2080ti, but what about the more ambitious games that push tech? Will we see rdr2 switch? Or even gtav? Gpus are used for more than number of pixels, as is memory. And this is all based on everything else in lockhart being the same, which it probably isnt.

i mean, it is too late to lobby Gamer Phil, but maybe if it flops they will Zune it before 2030.

I'll just let it play out and see what happens. I'm sure MS has given this some thought, just like they did when they spent hours running performance models for the X1X. I'm sure they have a good idea how much memory will be eaten up with 4k assets and the 4k fill rate. I'm not saying it won't be a mistake in the end (maybe it will be a huge mistake), But, I don't think you've had this epiphany that MS never thought about.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This whole Lockhart thing is putting me down, silly Microsoft bottlenecking the whole next gen for the sake of high resolution, very smart of them, pushing Softco to scale down next gen assets and than bumping up effects and resolution on the big system just for saying "hey series X runs 4k 60fps"

Yeah I'm still weary on Lockhart myself; unless it's dedicated solely to optimized streaming relatively cheaply ($200-$250) I can't see a point. At the same time, maybe they can show me what it brings to the table that'll change my mind.

PS5 and XSX, on the other hand, feel like the genuine next-gen experiences.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

This whole Lockhart thing is putting me down, silly Microsoft bottlenecking the whole next gen for the sake of high resolution, very smart of them, pushing Softco to scale down next gen assets and than bumping up effects and resolution on the big system just for saying "hey series X runs 4k 60fps"

Agreed. That's been an issue in pc gaming for decades!

 

[Darklor01]

looks like a playing card shuffle machine. Awful!

 

[saintjules]

Ready for take off!

 

[Bogroll]

Nope I'm saying just because yours is fine doesn't mean all the people saying on the internet that there's have got loud are liars.

That goes without out saying but the general consensus is the Ps4 is louder than Xbox

 

[Reindeer]

Why did Komachi delete the tweet?

 

[BattleScar]

if it is 36, hot loud and under powered compared to xsx is guarantee, no?

It is a nice conundrum to work out: how does sony ship a competitive console at a mass market price with 36 cus? Why do some insiders say ps5 = or > sxs with amd documents saying 36 cu max and power graphs showing bad power/freq scaling?

pre launch 2013 was more fun, but 2020 still has some mysteries to be solved.

If it's 36 CU, then even at 2GHz it won't be drawing more power than the XSX (270W APU power for 36CU @ 2000MHz Vs 300W APU for 56CU @ 1700MHz - see one of my earlier posts for the calculation)

Unless they have exceptionally leaky silicon in their devkits and/or exceptionally poor cooling in that giant box, it should noy be hotter than the XSX. Louder maybe if it's using delta or blower fans, but should not be hotter.

 

[SportsFan581]

This whole Lockhart thing is putting me down, silly Microsoft bottlenecking the whole next gen for the sake of high resolution, very smart of them, pushing Softco to scale down next gen assets and than bumping up effects and resolution on the big system just for saying "hey series X runs 4k 60fps"

I mean who wants games that are performant on the box they are played on, when you could have games that run poorly by trying to do too much. Gamers were so happy with that this gen.

Before the 360/ps3 it was normal for games to consistently hit the target frame rate for the territory. There are exceptions, but it was far less common.

 

[joe_zazen]

I'll just let it play out and see what happens. I'm sure MS has given this some thought, just like they did when they spent hours running performance models for the X1X. I'm sure they have a good idea how much memory will be eaten up with 4k assets and the 4k fill rate. I'm not saying it won't be a mistake in the end (maybe it will be a huge mistake), But, I don't think you've had this epiphany that MS never thought about.

lol, no Epiphany. microsoft wants to sell boxes and software, not be the Patreon saint of gaming. ms believes lockhart will make them more money and it doesn't matter if it boat anchors the generation.

X1 was this gens boat anchor, but at least it was closer to the competition then lockhart will be.

 

[ethomaz]

That is why I prefer to take tweet pics instead to link them.

 

[SportsFan581]

Yeah I'm still weary on Lockhart myself; unless it's dedicated solely to optimized streaming relatively cheaply ($200-$250) I can't see a point. At the same time, maybe they can show me what it brings to the table that'll change my mind.

PS5 and XSX, on the other hand, feel like the genuine next-gen experiences.

It is possible that WC had it wrong and this is still a streaming oriented device, we'll just have to wait and see. LOL

 

[sinnergy]

I mean who wants games that are performant on the box they are played on, when you could have games that run poorly by trying to do too much. Gamers were so happy with that this gen.

Before the 360/ps3 it was normal for games to consistently hit the target frame rate for the territory. There are exceptions, but it was far less common.

Ever played NES Game Boy or SNES they all had slow down even in that age ... in a lot of games I played ...

 

[Agnostic2020]

Why did Komachi delete the tweet?

He said he won't post anything console related due to many quest the gets . Immediately he got many questions and decided to delete .this tells us for sure it's a console

 

[Shin]

And people thought Pro was a Turbo Jet

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It is possible that WC had it wrong and this is still a streaming oriented device, we'll just have to wait and see. LOL

I hope so; can't see a 4 TF Navi-based system bringing monumental leaps in next-gen game design, visuals, etc. even with a much better CPU than the X/PS4 Pro.

Ever played NES Game Boy or SNES they all had slow down even in that age ... in a lot of games I played ...

Eh, in NES's case that was late-gen games literally pushing the hardware to its limits. With SNES, the CPU was just kinda lame compared to MegaDrive/Genesis's with things like speed (cart coprocessors and devs programming around the slower CPU would mitigate that with a lot of games later on though).

There's always been a mix of 60FPS and 30FPS games and also games with slowdown, like you say.

 

[Gamernyc78]

That goes without out saying but the general consensus is the Ps4 is louder than Xbox

I will admit my S gets loud sometimes but my pro is loud often times. I can't really compare as I don't play Xbox as much and it just might be a case of me remembering ps4 noise levels since I'm always playing it. But yes the consensus is Xbox is quieter.

 

[DJ12]

And people thought Pro was a Turbo Jet

Would be acceptable (it's not reall mind) but don't we all want the hot air exiting forwards rather than back?

 

[Fake]

Lol.

 

[Hellgardia]

Let's hope it's just a fan-made render.
I would need some time to adjust to... that...

 

[Shin]

Would be acceptable (it's not reall mind) but don't we all want the hot air exiting forwards rather than back?

That's the problem, they are facing each other, even in a pull/blow situation you'd be pulling hot air from the other side I think.
Though: https://jp.linkedin.com/in/tetsu-sumii-01011725 PS4's designer is Chief Architect at Sony since last year so he's been designing some of their products and that render kinda resembles 4/Pro a bit.

 

[DJ12]

That goes without out saying but the general consensus is the Ps4 is louder than Xbox

That's all well and good but that's not the comment you replied to or the issue I had with your original post.

 

[johnjohn]

The dev kit looks nicer than that lol.

 

[Agnostic2020]

I know it's fake but I don't mind it at all lol

 

[Kdad]

I've had consoles since Atari Pong....not once, after hooking it up to my TV, have i ever gave a rats' ass about what the console looks like.

 

[DJ12]

That's the problem, they are facing each other, even in a pull/blow situation you'd be pulling hot air from the other side I think.
Though: https://jp.linkedin.com/in/tetsu-sumii-01011725 PS4's designer is Chief Architect at Sony since last year so he's been designing some of their products and that render kinda resembles 4/Pro a bit.

I imagine the Air will be drawn from the front or side in this mock up and expelled through the v.

 

[McHuj]

That's not horrible.

 

[Evilms]

 

[Bogroll]

I will admit my S gets loud sometimes but my pro is loud often times. I can't really compare as I don't play Xbox as much and it just might be a case of me remembering ps4 noise levels since I'm always playing it. But yes the consensus is Xbox is quieter.

Iv'e got a launch Xbox and that is super quiet but i heard the S is louder and their was a bad batch of them with dodgy fans. But yeah the S is quiet ish. The Ps4 slims are way quieter than the early Ps4's.

 

[VFXVeteran]

PC games are always held back to accommodate lower-end hardware (and in the case of multiplats: consoles)... Pretty much every multiplatform game is made to run on the current gen outdated hardware, and then scaled up from there on superior PCs. Not the other way around.

That is completely false.

 

[SmokSmog]

Poor blender render

 

[Disco_]

Oh, sure. If we have anything to go by, the PS5 will probably have a decent cooling system, just like the retail version of the PS4 Pro.


… waaaait ...

Did you see the article from DF about the latest PRO revision? All they did was dial back fan speeds and the console was almost as quiet as the XONEX. The downside was that it got 5-7 degrees hotter so now it was just as hot as the XONEX as well. That's trash tier cooling for you. Hopefully sony learned something.
Launch PRO was louder but several degrees cooler than XONEX while both maxed out at about 175w(those with lower tier hovis chips hit ~190w and >55dBA).

No, I'm not. Stop trying to make the people who had jet planes sound like paranoid madmen. Some PS4s were whisper quiet; others were jet engines. That's a an undisputed fact,

But this is where my beef is. MS took the feedback to heart about the X360's lousy cooling and overheating issues and provided next-gen consoles who (in the majority) produce no heating problems at all. The question is: Will Sony follow suite, or did they learn fuck-all from the PS4's fan noise?

Some people are more sensitive to noise. That's why something that's quiet to me can be irritating to you.
You know about the hovis method, right? I mentioned it above. One of the aspects is that they take chips that would otherwise be discarded and pump more volts into them to meet spec. That's the reason some XONEXs put out more noise and heat than just about any other console.

Not going to pretend the PRO was a work of art. Hell it was my biggest disappointment(to claim its a 4k console is laughable) of this gen right behind PSVR, but let's not pretend MS did something amazing with ONEX's cooling.

 

[Bogroll]

That's all well and good but that's not the comment you replied to or the issue I had with your original post.

What issue did you have ? Basically you said "some people get lucky some don't, don't me people don't get shit happen" Which goes without saying when you buy anything.

 

[Kdad]

Poor blender render

A blender would go so well with my George Foreman grill though! /s

 

[Nickolaidas]

Let's hope it's just a fan-made render.
I would need some time to adjust to... that...

It doesn't seem to have vents at all.

It probably sends the hot air to another dimension.

 

[MoreJRPG]

Let's hope it's just a fan-made render.
I would need some time to adjust to... that...

It's fan made, the original was posted on reddit a few days ago.

 

[Nikana]

It doesn't seem to have vents at all.

It probably sends the hot air to another dimension.

I mean that would be next level cooling!

 

[Fake]

It's fan made, the original was posted on reddit a few days ago.

But... someone posted on twitter. Must be true.

 

[Norse]

That could happen but curiously:

PS3 = 87 million
360 = 84 million
T = 171 million

PS4 = 103 million
XB1 = 47 million
T = 150 million

* wiki estimates that are close enough

Where did the other 21 million users go? PC? Did the home console market shrink?

10yrs vs 6+yrs......thats why 20mil are missing.

 

[demigod]

What the fuck that looks like a toilet seat. I'd rather have the devkit.

 

[CyberPanda]

read the whole twitter chain.