Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Tommy Fisher said:
3 different versions of PS5 development kits with major differences. The target specs has always been ~13 RDNA tflops. Like ~12 for Anaconda.

13tf PS5 and 12tf Xbox are 100% legit. You've my words.
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is fun to read this thread night after 12 hours of work, i hope ps5 goes all out on power and i have good feelings this the most legit thing posted in my 780 pages of scrolling!!:messenger_smiling_hearts:
 
Oh yes, their entire back catalog of games. The DREAM.

The trouble is, it IS a dream, because legally it's not even possible. There are waaaaaaaaaay more licensing issues on older PS1/PS2 stuff. Hell even PS3 stuff is a minefield.

Best you can hope for now is 1 &2 disk based emulation with ono more than Vita enhancements.PS3 and PS4 will be digital and include just what is available on the store now, and will have no enhancements for PS3, but allow "pro" enhancements for PS4. And then regular updates to games that have been added.

Expecting more than that is a pipe dream. Hell, Sony would be NUTS to release that console as well as PS5 games. Jesus, you could release a PS1/2/3 machine that played all games upscaled and sell a galactic fuck ton, alone!

Theres a massive reason Sony haven't done that, and it's not because they don't like money, folks.

As for the 9/12 thing above, what a load of old tosh.
 
Tommy Fisher said:
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!
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RT like Nvidia RTX cores.. now thats a big jump
 
bitbydeath said:
Be sure to snort some salt for this one

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Lol, there's a reason why Microsoft doesn't have its whole catalog available on the Xbox One, and it isn't for any technical reasons. You don't automatically have the rights to do this, so if this source is claiming Sony was able to get the rights to do this for 25.000 games he's clearly hallucinating.
 
hemo memo said:
GAF is already the world largest consumer because of these leaks.
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giphy.gif
 
X-Fighter said:
Lol, there's a reason why Microsoft doesn't have its whole catalog available on the Xbox One, and it isn't for any technical reasons. You don't automatically have the rights to do this, so if this source is claiming Sony was able to get the rights to do this for 25.000 games he's clearly hallucinating.
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MS did it digitally, not locally from a disk. So we wouldn't know. But if both companies release emulators for Xbox and PS1/2 to play discs locally, what stops anyone from trying and playing any disc? All those rights should be an issue for digital distribution.
 
TLZ said:
MS did it digitally, not locally from a disk. So we wouldn't know. But if both companies release emulators for Xbox and PS1/2 to play discs locally, what stops anyone from trying and playing any disc? All those rights should be an issue for digital distribution.
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Well the issue comes from looking at what that actually entails. Any time you're working with code modification you're in a sticky place.

PS1requires all games to have at least some sort of modification but could be used without any adjustments at all.

PS2 is a different story, as every game will need a separate wrapper that will slow the game to work at all with the new language. Every game would need its own unique wrapper, which is not only a LOT of work, but also presents an issue on licence.

PS3 is as above, only much more work.

PS4 would likely require much less work, however you still would run into some sort of licence issue, but this is a none issue as PS4 games were all released digital, and near enough all of them have w valid licence still.

So, even if you allow players to just stick their disk in, you would still need to have a manually checked and better wrapper just to get the game working, and that's a lot of work coupled with potential legal issues.

Look at Xbox, and look at what they did with Bc. "To this day," they have done the best job on it all. But their BC releases were very sparse, and sometimes not what you expected, plus they never allowed you to just stick the disk in and play any game.

If you're hoping for some mass emulator that "just works" then, well... I don't know what to say. It would be the dream, but it's just that, a dream.
 
X-Fighter said:
Lol, there's a reason why Microsoft doesn't have its whole catalog available on the Xbox One, and it isn't for any technical reasons. You don't automatically have the rights to do this, so if this source is claiming Sony was able to get the rights to do this for 25.000 games he's clearly hallucinating.
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o'dium said:
Oh yes, their entire back catalog of games. The DREAM.

The trouble is, it IS a dream, because legally it's not even possible. There are waaaaaaaaaay more licensing issues on older PS1/PS2 stuff. Hell even PS3 stuff is a minefield.

Best you can hope for now is 1 &2 disk based emulation with ono more than Vita enhancements.PS3 and PS4 will be digital and include just what is available on the store now, and will have no enhancements for PS3, but allow "pro" enhancements for PS4. And then regular updates to games that have been added.

Expecting more than that is a pipe dream. Hell, Sony would be NUTS to release that console as well as PS5 games. Jesus, you could release a PS1/2/3 machine that played all games upscaled and sell a galactic fuck ton, alone!

Theres a massive reason Sony haven't done that, and it's not because they don't like money, folks.

As for the 9/12 thing above, what a load of old tosh.
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How did Sony not run into that issue on the PS3 with full PS1 and PS2 BC?

And PS2 also having full PS1 BC?
 
bitbydeath said:
How did Sony not run into that issue on the PS3 with full PS1 and PS2 BC?

And PS2 also having full PS1 BC?
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The PS3 essentially had a ps2 inside it, for it's initial run. But even then, you had to have a disk. That gets around the licence issue because even if a game is pulled, you still own a physical copy. Both ps2 and ps1 games ran native, because they were running on a PS2.

To do that now would require emulation, which means every game would
need its own wrapper to work. This would mean a different sort of licence due to code modification. The PS2 was a bitch to emulate, and the PS3, well, we know how hard that is as well.

I mean a lot of these licences are now abandoned, and hands have changed multiple times. It would be an utter nightmare to not only seek out each of these licences and get them legally but also create a wrapper for every game so that you could ensure a proper play experience.
 
bitbydeath said:
How did Sony not run into that issue on the PS3 with full PS1 and PS2 BC?

And PS2 also having full PS1 BC?
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The first PS3 had both PS2's Emotion Engine and Graphics Syntesizer chips in hardware. Later PS3 revisions only had the GS and emulated the EE.
Same thing with PS2. It used the PS1 apu as an I/O controller in PS2 mode, and as the main CPU in PS1 mode.
 
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o'dium said:
The PS3 essentially had a ps2 inside it, for it's initial run. But even then, you had to have a disk. That gets around the licence issue because even if a game is pulled, you still own a physical copy. Both ps2 and ps1 games ran native, because they were running on a PS2.

To do that now would require emulation, which means every game would
need its own wrapper to work. This would mean a different sort of licence due to code modification. The PS2 was a bitch to emulate, and the PS3, well, we know how hard that is as well.

I mean a lot of these licences are now abandoned, and hands have changed multiple times. It would be an utter nightmare to not only seek out each of these licences and get them legally but also create a wrapper for every game so that you could ensure a proper play experience.
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As long as you dont need to reissue a release, there would be no licencing issues. A wrapper is just code that encapsulates the legacy code (old game) so it's able to run on different hardware than intended. (man-in-the-middle)
You don't necessarily need to recompile the legacy code.
 
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raysoft76 said:
As long as you dont need to reissue a release, there would be no licencing issues. A wrapper is just code that encapsulates the legacy code (old game) so it's able to run on different hardware than intended. (man-in-the-middle)
You don't necessarily need to recompile the legacy code.
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its not as simple as that in all cases, legally anyway, as you are still releasing a game outside of original vision.

More importantly however is that each game would still require a wrapper to just "work", and holy hell, there are a LOT of ps1/ps2 games to do that with.
 
o'dium said:
More importantly however is that each game would still require a wrapper to just "work", and holy hell, there are a LOT of ps1/ps2 games to do that with.
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Nope.

Emulate the system job done.

There's neigh on perfect pax emulation, PS2 is pretty good and PS3 has made good strides and this is from hobbiests trying to reverse engineer the consoles. Give them all the technically documents and progress would be a lot quicker.
 
I'm not sure if you understand the precision needed for "perfect" emulation, and "good enough/pretty good" won't cut it.

We are Living in a time where entire sites have devoted weeks of their time to slating Xbox one 360 emulation that ran at a single fps less. Come on 🤪
 
o'dium said:
The PS3 essentially had a ps2 inside it, for it's initial run. But even then, you had to have a disk. That gets around the licence issue because even if a game is pulled, you still own a physical copy. Both ps2 and ps1 games ran native, because they were running on a PS2.

To do that now would require emulation, which means every game would
need its own wrapper to work. This would mean a different sort of licence due to code modification. The PS2 was a bitch to emulate, and the PS3, well, we know how hard that is as well.

I mean a lot of these licences are now abandoned, and hands have changed multiple times. It would be an utter nightmare to not only seek out each of these licences and get them legally but also create a wrapper for every game so that you could ensure a proper play experience.
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Interesting, so the already announced PS4 BC doesn't need to worry about that because it's still recent?
 
bitbydeath said:
Be sure to snort some salt for this one

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This would be glorious for both gamers and Sony. Playing my pal us jap PSX and PS2 disc games on the same PS5 feels like a dream (but we really need enhanced framerate as a default option plus better loading times). Get ready for Ridge Racerssss and Tekken 3 remakes if this happens. Cerny really IS a smart guy, i can see this becoming real.
Something Nintendo should have done with the Switch and needs to be there for its sequel.
 
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So as we near the end of the month we will see if we get any invites

Tommy fisher said around the same date as meeting in 2013 (feb 20)
Klee said towards the end of feb ( which means from feb 16 to 29).

The reckoning day is close haha and with each passing day we lose more hope 😔😜

we have 4 to 10days before we can rule out feb reveal I feel
 
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I recon if Sony release the PS5 with 3 months PSNOW which is now like Xbox Game Pass and includes a massive library of PS1/2/3 games it'll be a great deal.

The risk is of it having the shenmue effect, where people will buy it because of the older games and they wont age well. This is regardless of any enhancements.
 
Clintizzle said:
I recon if Sony release the PS5 with 3 months PSNOW which is now like Xbox Game Pass and includes a massive library of PS1/2/3 games it'll be a great deal.

The risk is of it having the shenmue effect, where people will buy it because of the older games and they wont age well. This is regardless of any enhancements.
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i'm expecting them to bundle psnow to be honest, i actually checked it out last night and it's not too bad. would be good if all games on there could be downloaded to console instead of streaming though.
 
Clintizzle said:
The risk is of it having the shenmue effect, where people will buy it because of the older games and they wont age well. This is regardless of any enhancements.
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It really depends on the games. Ridge Racer Revolution looks better than the 1st in my opinion and the later ones on PSX, that still look good. Tekken 3, Motor Toon GP, Jumping Flash and 2d games looks really good. Shure Tomb Raider on PSX look bad, just like a lot of 3d aventure titles running at 15/20 fps.
 
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Insider A: PS5 not 9.2TF
Insider B: PS5 12.xx TF
Insider C: PS5 12.xx TF
Verified Insider D: Xbox Series X powerful than PS5 in TeraFlop count

Rinse repeat, that's how this thread is going isn't it? Or am I missing something?
 
Clintizzle said:
The risk is of it having the shenmue effect, where people will buy it because of the older games and they wont age well. This is regardless of any enhancements.
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Shenmue aged like fine wine. There is not a single game like it to this day, and it remains unsurpassed in some of it's features 18 years later.
(inb4 clueless Yakuza comparisons)
 
Prash said:
Insider A: PS5 not 9.2TF
Insider B: PS5 12.xx TF
Insider C: PS5 12.xx TF
Verified Insider D: Xbox Series X powerful than PS5 in TeraFlop count

Rinse repeat, that's how this thread is going isn't it? Or am I missing something?
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You forgot the part where A accuses B of being a fanboy for their console and the inevitable simian style shit flinging and posturing that occurs with that, but otherwise, nailed it
 
o'dium said:
its not as simple as that in all cases, legally anyway, as you are still releasing a game outside of original vision.

More importantly however is that each game would still require a wrapper to just "work", and holy hell, there are a LOT of ps1/ps2 games to do that with.
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If you are talking about doing all sorts of enhancements (updated textures, enhanced sound, better effects etc.), then yes. That's not what I'm talking about tho'. You could do emulation baked into PS5's OS and support downloadable wrappers for those games that would need them. You could also support some filtering/effects without touching the legacy code too, but not on the same level as i.e. MS' bc.
As long as the games used PS' own api libs, the emulation would be even more trivial. The more specialized wrappers would be needed on titles that didn't use Sonys code, but went straight for the metal. (usually only used on critical parts of the games engine and not everywhere in the game)
This way you could put in an original PS2 disc and play it on PS5 without bothering about licencing/rights.
PS1 games would be the simplest of the bunch, since all games could be done in one universal emulator, wouldn't even require any specific wrappers.
 
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o'dium said:
I'm not sure if you understand the precision needed for "perfect" emulation, and "good enough/pretty good" won't cut it.

We are Living in a time where entire sites have devoted weeks of their time to slating Xbox one 360 emulation that ran at a single fps less. Come on 🤪
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Here we go again with the ms do this so it's the only way lol.

Maybe that's because it's only titles that have been supposedly fixed.

I'm sure people could just stick any disk in they liked and it just worked there would be more leeway given.

Add to this ps5 will be more than powerful enough to emulate all previous PlayStation's with realtive ease.
 
o'dium said:
Well the issue comes from looking at what that actually entails. Any time you're working with code modification you're in a sticky place.

PS1requires all games to have at least some sort of modification but could be used without any adjustments at all.

PS2 is a different story, as every game will need a separate wrapper that will slow the game to work at all with the new language. Every game would need its own unique wrapper, which is not only a LOT of work, but also presents an issue on licence.

PS3 is as above, only much more work.

PS4 would likely require much less work, however you still would run into some sort of licence issue, but this is a none issue as PS4 games were all released digital, and near enough all of them have w valid licence still.

So, even if you allow players to just stick their disk in, you would still need to have a manually checked and better wrapper just to get the game working, and that's a lot of work coupled with potential legal issues.

Look at Xbox, and look at what they did with Bc. "To this day," they have done the best job on it all. But their BC releases were very sparse, and sometimes not what you expected, plus they never allowed you to just stick the disk in and play any game.

If you're hoping for some mass emulator that "just works" then, well... I don't know what to say. It would be the dream, but it's just that, a dream.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I imagined they'd just create emulators for the consoles like the ones we have on PCs with perfect compatibility and just leave us use any disc we like. But from explanation it seems it isn't that simple.

Couldn't they just do what they did with PS3's PS1 emulation for example? I think it played any PS1 disc right?

Edit: nevermind. I saw your response to bitbydeath.
 
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Could be XSX-related; every time I look at that reveal video I count 3 memory ICs on two adjacent sides, so assuming equality that would be 12 modules. 12 2GB modules? 24GB.
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It was 1GB and 2GB chips, but didn't see the whole thing - I'll let DF say it better than me :

However, drawing upon a 4K feed we captured direct at the Microsoft conference, two of the G6 modules come into focus enough for us to catch their precise part numbers, ending in 325BC-HC14 and 325BM-HC14. The 'HC-14' confirms 14gbps speed, but the two part numbers suggest a mixture of both 1GB and 2GB memory modules. Whether this is just Microsoft seeking to throw off people like me looking for clues on the make-up of the system remains to be seen, but this is certainly a strange set-up. Who knows, maybe we're looking at two 128-bit buses addressing 8GB and 4GB respectively? A straight 256-bit memory bus would deliver 448GB/s of bandwidth and if there is a 384-bit bus out of shot there, we'd be looking at a mammoth 672GB/s instead.
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Clintizzle said:
I recon if Sony release the PS5 with 3 months PSNOW which is now like Xbox Game Pass and includes a massive library of PS1/2/3 games it'll be a great deal.

The risk is of it having the shenmue effect, where people will buy it because of the older games and they wont age well. This is regardless of any enhancements.
Click to expand...

PSNow is a marketing issue not a content one. Streaming is scaring people away.
 
8TF consumer, 9.2TF dev kits PS5
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Could explain the obvious extra effort cooling on the dev kits, and also hand waive away the concerns about 2GHz being way too high [and hot] for a consumer unit..

But I never believe reddit leaks, only 4chan ones. It's a rule. Never lets me down.
 
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xool said:
Could explain the obvious extra effort cooling on the dev kits, and also hand waive away the concerns about 2GHz being way too high for a consumer unit..

But I never believe reddit leaks, only 4chan ones. It's a rule. Never lets me down.
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The shape of the PS5 devkits should tell you all you need to know. It's not a 8 or 9 TF machine, you guys are in for a surprise.
 
Gudji said:
The shape of the PS5 devkits should tell you all you need to know. It's not a 8 or 9 TF machine, you guys are in for a surprise.
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Makes sense.

Need to see the consumer box now. Tower or fat briefcase form factor? or something else??
 
o'dium said:
The PS3 essentially had a ps2 inside it, for it's initial run. But even then, you had to have a disk. That gets around the licence issue because even if a game is pulled, you still own a physical copy. Both ps2 and ps1 games ran native, because they were running on a PS2.

To do that now would require emulation, which means every game would
need its own wrapper to work. This would mean a different sort of licence due to code modification. The PS2 was a bitch to emulate, and the PS3, well, we know how hard that is as well.

I mean a lot of these licences are now abandoned, and hands have changed multiple times. It would be an utter nightmare to not only seek out each of these licences and get them legally but also create a wrapper for every game so that you could ensure a proper play experience.
Click to expand...

But the 2nd revision of the PS3 emulated the PS2 Cpu. So the PS2 was modified. Even if it wasnt I'm sure a developer/publisher *could* challenge that the licence was for a standard PS2 not one in another compliance.

In my eyes its similar to when Apple let end users rip cds via iTunes. If the company is big enough and the area grey enough few are going to issue a law suit that decade old games now run on new hardware.

The only legal issue I'd have thought is a new contract would have to be negotiated for a PSN retro release. But the big win for gamers is that old games already sold would work. I've certainly bought a few games recently for a few pounds just in case of this eventuality.

Running old games at higher res would be a dream come true. PS2 games benefit HUGELY from this. A high resolution is natural AA in my eyes. Just running a ps2 emulator on PC shows what kind of benefit these games could have from a simple res bump.

I don't think it's going to be a legal issue ultimately when it comes to running old games. More cost and estimated demand.

Amongst hardcore gamers it would be a MASSIVE ace in the hole for Sony. Especially in these early stages when it's the enthusiast gamer that is all important.
 
xool said:
Makes sense.

Need to see the consumer box now. Tower or fat briefcase form factor? or something else??
Click to expand...

I don't see sony doing a tower type box, so I'm going with "briefcase form factor". Something a little bit larger in height but still something you can put below your TV.

Ofc they could also have a really good cooling solution but I'm not betting on that one. It will have a vapor chamber at best and that's about it.
 
xool said:
Could explain the obvious extra effort cooling on the dev kits, and also hand waive away the concerns about 2GHz being way too high [and hot] for a consumer unit..

But I never believe reddit leaks, only 4chan ones. It's a rule. Never lets me down.
Click to expand...
Its shit rumor spread by blue is pink or violet fanboy who is worse then misterx so I wouldnt believe that. Whatever PS currently has in dev kits will be what you will find in retail box (SOC wise).
 
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