That's what I'm saying, before April we should have the reveal, but it'll just be the console and maybe a game or two. You won't be hearing the specs till later in the year.
- Status
That's what I'm saying, before April we should have the reveal, but it'll just be the console and maybe a game or two. You won't be hearing the specs till later in the year.
joe_zazen
Member
.
there are a couple of recievers with earc that arent 2.1, and a couple of others you can upgrade to 2.1 with a firmware upddate. But personally, if it doesnt say "2.1" on the box, i am not spending the money.
2.1 has a bunch of cool stuff, but VRR is the must have feature that I want all my purchases from here on out to support. Whatever console has VRR, or has the best implementation of, will be the winner in my eyes. And if neither console has VRR games, then I guess I'll have to do the PC thing, which is a last resort.
You are right...
there are a couple of recievers with earc that arent 2.1, and a couple of others you can upgrade to 2.1 with a firmware upddate. But personally, if it doesnt say "2.1" on the box, i am not spending the money.
2.1 has a bunch of cool stuff, but VRR is the must have feature that I want all my purchases from here on out to support. Whatever console has VRR, or has the best implementation of, will be the winner in my eyes. And if neither console has VRR games, then I guess I'll have to do the PC thing, which is a last resort.
DrDamn
Member
I was sorting through some old games last weekend. All my remaining PS3 titles went to charity but I kept hold of Demon's Souls - HK version, happy memories, and Motorstorm - just in case, though by rights we deserve a trilogy remaster!
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
I think he's regretting making a bet on Feb.
ANIMAL1975
Member
Because it's a devkit?
Yes, shouldn't it be a custom chip? Or they were testing BC for PS5 with Navi10 chips (the AMD chip for consumer market graphic cards)? If they were, then the tests are very old (pre-custom chip), or very generic and a similar chip was sufficient,... or it's another rookie intern typo mistake, like the project arden on Oberon BC1
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
WRT emulation, I see ps1 and PS2 being out the gate easy. Stick a disk in and it's yours, however the scope of advanced features won't be something small. So I expect you to be able to stick a disk in and play those games but have very basic improvements, if any. Sort of how the Vita does with PSOne games. As for digital, it will be hit or miss like PSN is now, where shit loads of games are missing due to license issues and the like. There's no technical reason you can't just uk the resolution, but the trouble the lm with older games like these, a LOT breaks. It was ok for Xbox, for the most part, but these are very low quality and dont realy work too well at a higher resolution. No idea, possible.
PS4 is obviously will all work, and will work to at least a pro standard. I can't see anything more here, again. But they will be at Pro level.
PS3... this is a harder area to guess. If I had to say what I thought, at this stage, I feel they will handle this like MS did their Xbox support. That mean they will evaluate on a per game basis, and maybe allow advanced features such as increased resolution. But PS3 is the bastard child of the emulation scene and it's not as cut and paste as we would like.
Just my thoughts
PS4 is obviously will all work, and will work to at least a pro standard. I can't see anything more here, again. But they will be at Pro level.
PS3... this is a harder area to guess. If I had to say what I thought, at this stage, I feel they will handle this like MS did their Xbox support. That mean they will evaluate on a per game basis, and maybe allow advanced features such as increased resolution. But PS3 is the bastard child of the emulation scene and it's not as cut and paste as we would like.
Just my thoughts
mitchman
Gold Member
Yes, my Sony receiver got a firmware upgrade to support eARC so I run my consoles into my LG OLED B9 and the sound to the receiver that way, meaning I don't need to buy a HDMI 2.1 receiver as the TV supports it.
Kusarigama
Member
As a PlayStation fanboy (yes, i consider myself a fanboy but i do not like hating on Xbox), I like that Mystic Ryan's channel is PlayStation focused but he doesn't spew hate towards Nintendo or Microsoft or PC. He is gamer first and foremost.
PaintTinJr
Member
I'd speculate that we are now at a point where game sales of high profile sequels, ones that rely on story continuity are struggling to gain new audiences at the same rate as before - because the earlier games aren't on current console platforms and so gamers have no convenient way to start at episode one without a good internet connection to use PS Now.
If Sony added the ability to automatically modernize the presentation of old 3D games with RT, this would be a big reason to add PS3(PS2 and PS1) BC. As the feature would help transition people to buying the latest game in a series. My example is that I've never played the Witcher 3 because I had never played 1 & 2.
I suspect all those first party games Sony has funded on past consoles - and now the studios are gone - could make them enough money as digital downloads to justify such a feature. It might also revive a few old game IP's or give them a second chance to be a hit, while also giving big publishers a free pay day. Metal Gear Solid PS1 using RT would probably be a decent system seller for PS5.
Games from the past focused better on local multiplayer(IMHO) in a time before the online mode development ate all the local multiplayer development budget. I suspect that is the real reason that the size of the gaming market receded from the PS2/Wii generation – nothing sells a console to friends better than fun had with a bit of hands-on local multiplayer. Reviving that gaming scene with older games - automatically getting RT - would benefit everyone: gamers, developers, publishers and platform holders. Playing games like the original Bomberman Kart or Monkeyball Deluxe in 4-player split-screen on a big TV, with wireless pads, predictable frame-rates and less aliasing would make all the difference (IMHO). The replacement of rasterization with RT would also remove the high variance frame-rate drops because the workload of RT is far less unpredictable, so in theory the emulation should produce better playability than the game played on original hardware.
pawel86ck
Banned
We already know how retail XSX will look like, and Phil Spencer has also talked about performance saying it's 2x xbox x and over 8x xbox one. Only 12TF can explain both comparisons, therefore it's obvious he was talking about FLOPS metric and keep in mind big SoC also suggest something around 12TF. When it comes to XSX 12TF is a given at this point.
When it comes to PS5 we dont know specific details, but we know SDD will be fast based on spiderman comparison, and that's it. TFLOPS is still a big unknown and it can be between 8-13TF.
I dont know why sony is so shy in regards to PS5 power, but maybe their console is weaker than expected. There were 12-13TF leaks but most of them also talked about PS5 reveal early this month.... so they were probably fake anyway.
Phil Spencer has said he think XSX will lead again in performance. With his knowledge he must know already how fast PS5 is. Many people here expect PS5 to match or surpass XSX performance but evidence suggest me it's not the case. XSX will aim at enthusiasts, while PS5 will aim at casuals.
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PaintTinJr
Member
How would VRR work with something like the DSP of say the Sony X1 Extreme or Ultimate chip ? I would love to have £15k or £80k
to buy the Sony ZG9 . Presummably VRR works best on PC monitors because they do very little to improve the picture above their base panel specs - which isn't really needed on sub 40" screens - but does suggest there is theoretically a contradiction for image purists choosing PC, if their choice of technology actually displaying the GPU image is vastly inferior to the best of TVs DSP -even in game mode.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I'm reading a lot of people saying Sony is shy, scared, etc. People are taking silence and using it as a blank to insert whatever they want. Silence is not any of those things. They are running a business project with a launch schedule. They have a project and deployment plan. We know none of the plan details. We have to see how it all plays out.
At some point they will talk specs, even if not at first. If the leave the TFLOPS out, they do. As some have pointed out, most console consumers don't even know about that kind of thing.
At some point they will talk specs, even if not at first. If the leave the TFLOPS out, they do. As some have pointed out, most console consumers don't even know about that kind of thing.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I believe it was posted in here before that Microsoft called the original Xbox One the most powerful console in the world.
Kusarigama
Member
Pretty much. Sony does its things at its own pace. When Xbox revealed drm for used games and people were asking Sony to clear its stance, they didn't do it right away. They took their time and then showed at E3. Same with cross-play, took it's time and then did it. Again same with PSN ID change. And now after Xbox showed its retail console design at TGA, Sony showed only the logo at CES, which in no way was in response to Xbox.
tl;dr Sony does its own things at its own pace.
pawel86ck
Banned
You think history will repeat itself, but at this point it should be obvious MS is not making the same mistakes, and Sony also acts differently.
Many people here expect PS5 will be not only faster but cheaper than XSX. Some people even still believe HBM stories and consider dual GPUs... and all of that for 400$, because of course Sony can take 600$ loss per console just to build a monster
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Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Personally I blame MS' last minute changes last time. Sony is like "you are NOT fixing things and increasing clocks this time!"
Neo Blaster
Member
But..but...Jim showed a logo!!!!!
Gediminas
Banned
sounds about right all about m$. quantity instead of quality. all what they showed from first party was just fillers for gamepass.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You think MS is infallible and that's hilarious. They've made many mistakes over the years and they will make them again.You think history will repeat itself, but at this point it should be obvious MS is not making the same mistakes, and Sony also acts differently.
Many people here expect PS5 will be not only faster but cheaper than XSX. Some people even still believe HBM stories and consider dual GPUs... and all of that for 400$, because of course Sony can take 600$ loss per console just to build a monster
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Oh, m$? Wow, we are doing that again? What about Pony? Xbot? What other 12 year old boy things?
you never answered my question either. But quite clearly looking at the post you just made, I can see which side of the fence you sit, so I'm grateful you didn't.
pawel86ck
Banned
I doubt it. MS has already changed their strategy with Xbox X, and all informations in regards to XSX also suggest MS wants to lead in performance once again.
On the other hand sony wants to transition its PS4 customers to PS5 as fast as possible. To me it suggest cheaper (400$) and weaker (8-9TF) product compared to XSX (500-600$ 12TF).
joe_zazen
Member
tldr: media molecule not long for this world; sony game template isincreasingly true; psvr2 wont happen.
a few thoughts on MM:
An easy game creation game is a great idea for a product. But Dreams has three flaws. First, creating with just a controller is a terrible idea. It is as dumb as having PSVR controllers with no analog sticks. And as with PSVR, the control scheme will be its achilles heel. Second, having it on PSN means sony becomes responsible for the content, which means a lot of the cool stuff will be deleted. Finally, Sony is cheap as fuck. MM has 50 staff, including support..so probably only 30 actual developers at most. This is why the game has taken for ever and will never be feature complete, things like psvr support and allowing creation on PC.
I still bought it because I like games that aren't all about killing and critic baiting stories. But I fully expect it to go the way of project Spark.
MM, Sony, and Nintendo type games:
I really wish Sony valued gameplay first games with broad family appeal enough to have a 'Nintendo' division.
They have a few properties like Ratchet, Sly, and the glorious Astrobot; but not enough to cultivate an audience for that style of game. So when they do release a Nintendo game, very few PS owners even look at it. And Nintendo zealots, many of whom work in games media, have an uncontrollable need to savage the product to product their first love.
But yeah, I mean ps all stars (smash-like game) had this line up:
As far as broad appeal, family friendly IP goes...woof.
Sony Strategy and MM Place in It:
Sony's strategy with PlayStation over the last generation has been to relentlessly focus on most profitable areas to the detriment of variety and experimentation. . Or as Sony PR put it when they closed Manchester "focus on operational effectiveness and efficiency"—which in non-jargon means making the most profitable types of games with the least investment possible.
Molecule is from another time when Sony put money into more experimental things because they saw game diversity as important. 2020 Sony would never buy a Media Molecule studio to make console games. Today, sony investment goes to exploitative mobile properties like Fate/Order (highest grossing mobile game of 2019 believe it or not)—they bought AniPlex in order to have access to IPs for that purpose. And they heavily invest in big selling AAA 3rd person action adventure games with large story components.
PSVR has been a bright spot in the drive towards AAA arpg cinematic story game homogenisation. But the closing of Manchester tells me Sony is done. PSVR2, as with a Vita2, requires too investment for too little return. This is just a guess based on my own psvr experience, which involved shit non-analog stick move controllers ruining games and unhooking it and putting it in a corner. Also based on the fact Sony has to compete with the massive investment Facebook is pouring into VR, 500 millions USD into game development alone. If Sony cant compete with tiny Nintendo in handheld, yeah Facebook backed VR....
anyway, if you made it this far cheers.
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Lone Wolf
Member
I'll get shit for this but I actually like Dealer Gaming and most of the people on his channel. More fanboyish but he has Xbox employees on his channel regularly. His live streams are entertaining to me.
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Gediminas
Banned
i have no time to waste on delusional people. have a nice day.
bitbydeath
Member
I don't think anyone's expecting a $400 console given everything that's already been announced.
Oh wait, you were talking about yourself...
joe_zazen
Member
tbf, smaller budget AA studios have more freedom and can produce more interesting content because they don't need to sell huge numbers. And we have yet to see what effect gamepass will have on internal studios. Could be bad (microtransaction + only gaas games), or could be great (lots of genre variety and experimental games). We'll see.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Still no reply to what I asked earlier when you trolled after an indepth post and no reply to you using m$ like a child.
I think it's quite clear which colour you bleed when cut, to be fair. I only want to entertain people who are impartial and want to discuss the pros and cons of each machine, not blind fanboys.
Welcome to the block list. Enjoy your stay.
Kusarigama
Member
They have MM, SIE Japan Studios, Santa Monica Studios(they provide support to smaller teams to realize their games), PixelOpus and also PStldr: media molecule not long for this world; sony game template isincreasingly true; psvr2 wont happen.
a few thoughts on MM:
An easy game creation game is a great idea for a product. But Dreams has three flaws. First, creating with just a controller is a terrible idea. It is as dumb as having PSVR controllers with no analog sticks. And as with PSVR, the control scheme will be its achilles heel. Second, having it on PSN means sony becomes responsible for the content, which means a lot of the cool stuff will be deleted. Finally, Sony is cheap as fuck. MM has 50 staff, including support..so probably only 30 actual developers at most. This is why the game has taken for ever and will never be feature complete, things like psvr support and allowing creation on PC.
I still bought it because I like games that aren't all about killing and critic baiting stories. But I fully expect it to go the way of project Spark.
MM, Sony, and Nintendo type games:
I really wish Sony valued gameplay first games with broad family appeal enough to have a 'Nintendo' division.
They have a few properties like Ratchet, Sly, and the glorious Astrobot; but not enough to cultivate an audience for that style of game. So when they do release a Nintendo game, very few PS owners even look at it. And Nintendo zealots, many of whom work in games media, have an uncontrollable need to savage the product to product their first love.
But yeah, I mean ps all stars (smash-like game) had this line up:
As far as broad appeal, family friendly IP goes...woof.
Sony Strategy and MM Place in It:
Sony's strategy with PlayStation over the last generation has been to relentlessly focus on most profitable areas to the detriment of variety and experimentation. . Or as Sony PR put it when they closed Manchester "focus on operational effectiveness and efficiency"—which in non-jargon means making the most profitable types of games with the least investment possible.
Molecule is from another time when Sony put money into more experimental things because they saw game diversity as important. 2020 Sony would never buy a Media Molecule studio to make console games. Today, sony investment goes to exploitative mobile properties like Fate/Order (highest grossing mobile game of 2019 believe it or not)—they bought AniPlex in order to have access to IPs for that purpose. And they heavily invest in big selling AAA 3rd person action adventure games with large story components.
PSVR has been a bright spot in the drive towards AAA arpg cinematic story game homogenisation. But the closing of Manchester tells me Sony is done. PSVR2, as with a Vita2, requires too investment for too little return. This is just a guess based on my own psvr experience, which involved shit non-analog stick move controllers ruining games and unhooking it and putting it in a corner. Also based on the fact Sony has to compete with the massive investment Facebook is pouring into VR, 500 millions USD into game development alone. If Sony cant compete with tiny Nintendo in handheld, yeah Facebook backed VR....
anyway, if you made it this far cheers.
indies for the more experimental kind of games. PlayStation isn't just about the AAA blockbusters, they do consider smaller projects.
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Gediminas
Banned
can you answer a question? how many games Manchester Studio released? did they got back any investment from them?tldr: media molecule not long for this world; sony game template isincreasingly true; psvr2 wont happen.
a few thoughts on MM:
An easy game creation game is a great idea for a product. But Dreams has three flaws. First, creating with just a controller is a terrible idea. It is as dumb as having PSVR controllers with no analog sticks. And as with PSVR, the control scheme will be its achilles heel. Second, having it on PSN means sony becomes responsible for the content, which means a lot of the cool stuff will be deleted. Finally, Sony is cheap as fuck. MM has 50 staff, including support..so probably only 30 actual developers at most. This is why the game has taken for ever and will never be feature complete, things like psvr support and allowing creation on PC.
I still bought it because I like games that aren't all about killing and critic baiting stories. But I fully expect it to go the way of project Spark.
MM, Sony, and Nintendo type games:
I really wish Sony valued gameplay first games with broad family appeal enough to have a 'Nintendo' division.
They have a few properties like Ratchet, Sly, and the glorious Astrobot; but not enough to cultivate an audience for that style of game. So when they do release a Nintendo game, very few PS owners even look at it. And Nintendo zealots, many of whom work in games media, have an uncontrollable need to savage the product to product their first love.
But yeah, I mean ps all stars (smash-like game) had this line up:
As far as broad appeal, family friendly IP goes...woof.
Sony Strategy and MM Place in It:
Sony's strategy with PlayStation over the last generation has been to relentlessly focus on most profitable areas to the detriment of variety and experimentation. . Or as Sony PR put it when they closed Manchester "focus on operational effectiveness and efficiency"—which in non-jargon means making the most profitable types of games with the least investment possible.
Molecule is from another time when Sony put money into more experimental things because they saw game diversity as important. 2020 Sony would never buy a Media Molecule studio to make console games. Today, sony investment goes to exploitative mobile properties like Fate/Order (highest grossing mobile game of 2019 believe it or not)—they bought AniPlex in order to have access to IPs for that purpose. And they heavily invest in big selling AAA 3rd person action adventure games with large story components.
PSVR has been a bright spot in the drive towards AAA arpg cinematic story game homogenisation. But the closing of Manchester tells me Sony is done. PSVR2, as with a Vita2, requires too investment for too little return. This is just a guess based on my own psvr experience, which involved shit non-analog stick move controllers ruining games and unhooking it and putting it in a corner. Also based on the fact Sony has to compete with the massive investment Facebook is pouring into VR, 500 millions USD into game development alone. If Sony cant compete with tiny Nintendo in handheld, yeah Facebook backed VR....
anyway, if you made it this far cheers.
sounds that one thing is cheap - your talk.
Gediminas
Banned
what a loss, delusional man don't talk with me again. what a loss.
joe_zazen
Member
they had 13 devs and had to provide support to other studios. it reminds me on the talk about Evolution being incompetent when their funding was equally miserly. Sony wouldn't even let them have an open beta. Evo had 60 including support, compare that to turn ten's 110.
yeah, 13 devs didnt put out a AAA VR game, quelle suprise.
Gediminas
Banned
officially they helped just with one game. no released games under their name. if they were so special and had their worth, no one would close them down. some people just forget that PS is in profitable business not charity. you have to have worth to be supported. yet, can you provide any info about those devs and where they went? maybe they are still working for PS just in other studios. the same with evolution developers?
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TherapistGaymer
Banned
Ah hell here we all go again.
13 devs didn't even put out a crappy small VR game while Rollercoaster Tycoon, Stardew Valley and Minecraft were made by 1 person.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
I've given him ample chance to explain his trolling, but he continues to post silly baits and fanboy drivel, offering nothing to the discussion other than more trolling and stupidity.
He's on the block list, and has been reported. Nothing more to be said, let's continue the actual discussion.
He's on the block list, and has been reported. Nothing more to be said, let's continue the actual discussion.
sonomamashine
Member
ThisYou think history will repeat itself, but at this point it should be obvious MS is not making the same mistakes, and Sony also acts differently.
Many people here expect PS5 will be not only faster but cheaper than XSX. Some people even still believe HBM stories and consider dual GPUs... and all of that for 400$, because of course Sony can take 600$ loss per console just to build a monster
Thats what it comes to, if Sony want to target 399$ price tag then its a 9Tf console, 449$ (10.4Tf) and so and so.
There is no loss, Sony & Ms are not in the charity business like some delusional people think.
BattleScar
Member
They can only offer funds so far as they see return. They're not in the business of pumping money into projects that yield no monetary return. This is a business after all.
Nintendo can exploit their powerhouse franchises because even with modest investment and even effort, every game they make sees huge return on investment (see: Pokémon games).
Neo Blaster
Member
You don't need to go cheap to make your current install base migrate, you can do that by allowing them to bring their games/history to PS5 with native BC. That, and with PS5 exclusives. What is the incentive to migrate for SX if you can play everything in the same console they have today or even without it in the cloud?
pawel86ck
Banned
Your argument is very good, so I guess people can still dream about monster PS5 (HBM, 14TF dual GPU), because everything is still possible
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Mendou
Banned
It looks like an upscaled PS4 game. If this and Godfall are the games that are advertised with the PS5, then I'm worried. Look at Hellblade 2 and Project: MARA from the Xbox Series X and compare that to the PS5 games revealed:
joe_zazen
Member
i agree. Just Irritates when pull lazy incompetent dev card in order to defend giant amoral corporation owned by billionaires, funds, and bankers when they fire a bunch of people. Sony doesn't want a dedicated vr studio because they want more profit by making more 3rd person action story stuff or multiplayer shooter then say that.
I mean that is exactly what sony pr said to gamebiz.
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Neofire
Member
I agree wholeheartedly with this point, there is little point in getting the SX in retrospect. The same argument people use on to why to get the SX over the ps5 forget about exclusive games which the SX(starting out), won't have and even then you Wil be able to get them on the pc.
Now if Sony starts releasing everything on the ps5 they will be in the same boat.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
All are 3rd party so far. We need to see 1st party. Checked again and it will go to Xbox as well.
splattered
Member
If it decently increases performance and offers any sort of visual enhancements for my current library I'd happily upgrade to XsX and be happy for a year of cross gen games before we REALLY start seeing next gen games surface.
Game is also on Xbox One and Xbox series X.
I think they're putting out an actual game trailer on the 13th (tomorrow)?
You always have to go cheap. Look what happened to Sony with the PS3. They had 160 million PS2 owners and droped to 85 million PS3 owners. This gen Microsoft was more expensive and droped from 85 to 45. Why someone should buy a Xbox? Because many people prefer consoles over Pcs and the Game Pass is really customer friendy with outstanding price-performance which is very important since many gamers are young and don't have 60 bucks for every game.
Mendou
Banned
Thanks for the clarification.
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- Status