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[ethomaz]

If VRS is there in hardware it would be utterly bizarre if it's not allowed. There's potentially double digit (%) performance gains to be made.

It is impossible to not be allowed.

You have 2 options use direct call to the GPU driver (is what we call code to metal) or use an API.

In the first case you just need the GPU and the driver.
For the second option Sony needs to implement VRS in their PS5's API.

 

[semicool]

Fake news... DF confirmed that early port of Gears 5 is performing near RTX 2080 level... not there yet.

They posted this on xbox.com, official site.


To close out the segment on the power of Xbox Series X, The Coalition's Technical Director, Mike Rayner, came up to show us how his team is planning to optimize Gears 5 for Xbox Series X. The team showcased a technical demo of Gears 5, powered by Unreal Engine, for Xbox Series X using the full PC Ultra Spec settings, which included higher resolution textures and higher resolution volumetric fog, as well as a 50% higher particle count than the PC Ultra Specs allowed. They also showed off the opening cutscene, which now runs at 60 FPS in 4K (it was 30 FPS on Xbox One X), meaning the transition from real-time cutscenes to gameplay is incredibly smooth.

There were also some noticeable improvements in a few other areas as well. Load times were extremely fast, and the team was able to turn on some features that, while previously implemented, had to be turned off for the Xbox One X version. This included contact shadows (providing extra depth to objects) and self-shadow lighting on plants and grass, making every scene feel more realistic. Rayner also shared that the game is already running over 100 FPS and that the team is investigating implementing 120 FPS gameplay for multiplayer modes, giving players an experience never before seen on consoles. Most impressive of all? The fact that the team was able to get all of this up and running in a matter of weeks.

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

 

[ethomaz]

Has this been discussed?
So basically, the 12tf number is nothing but mere marketing nonsense from Microsoft?

There is some rumors saying MS is using a dedicated audio chip... if that is the case then it didn't use GPU power.

But if it is the standard 3D Audio from AMD then it is uses the CUs to process it so you take GPU power.

 

[SportsFan581]

THEAP99 , you can process 3d sound without ever touching a GPU, PCs do it all the time. MS hasn't detailed their audio configuration completely, but there is more than one way to skin the cat as they say.

 

[megreotsugua]

In order to properly use an expansion solution, the game would have to require that expansion. This has happened in the past (typically with ram expansion), no expansion, no game.

Oh ok. That would be a hard sell though. But I get your point now.

I doubt we'll reach a stage in this generation where developers can't make 2.4GB/s work. Good chance the average PC still has less in 7yrs. Look at how long 500MB/s SSDs have been on the market and they still haven't supplanted spinners yet.

You can blame least common denominator for that.

Asset streaming WILL SHOW ADVANTAGE if it's taken advantage of. That's what I get from the devs' statements hyped about it.

Of course devs can make 2.4gb/s work if that's the common denominator. They can even work for 20gb/s (PS4 spider-man). But we're talking about the advantage.

The point is that they are stuck to that (even the 1st part devs), unless, like you said, they sell you an expansion that is mandatory to play the game.

 

[ethomaz]

They posted this on xbox.com


To close out the segment on the power of Xbox Series X, The Coalition's Technical Director, Mike Rayner, came up to show us how his team is planning to optimize Gears 5 for Xbox Series X. The team showcased a technical demo of Gears 5, powered by Unreal Engine, for Xbox Series X using the full PC Ultra Spec settings, which included higher resolution textures and higher resolution volumetric fog, as well as a 50% higher particle count than the PC Ultra Specs allowed. They also showed off the opening cutscene, which now runs at 60 FPS in 4K (it was 30 FPS on Xbox One X), meaning the transition from real-time cutscenes to gameplay is incredibly smooth.

There were also some noticeable improvements in a few other areas as well. Load times were extremely fast, and the team was able to turn on some features that, while previously implemented, had to be turned off for the Xbox One X version. This included contact shadows (providing extra depth to objects) and self-shadow lighting on plants and grass, making every scene feel more realistic. Rayner also shared that the game is already running over 100 FPS and that the team is investigating implementing 120 FPS gameplay for multiplayer modes, giving players an experience never before seen on consoles. Most impressive of all? The fact that the team was able to get all of this up and running in a matter of weeks.

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

Nice but it didn't support your RTX 2080TI level.
The opposite that is the same story shared by DF.

It runs at 100fps in an unknown config.
Think a bit about it you run on Xbox SX at 4K @ 60fps you are not reaching 100fps with the same 4K and better features unless you drop the resolution.

 

[semicool]

Nice but it didn't support your RTX 2080TI level.
The opposite that is the same story shared by DF.

Yeah according to this article it's greater performance with greater graphical effects in a 2 week period....."unoptimized".

I don't see Phil telling them to take this info off their official site.

 

[Apollo Helios]

It is a DX12 feature but not exclusive.
For example nVidia Turing VRS can be used with DX11, DX12, Vulkan and OpenGL.

VRWorks - Variable Rate Shading (VRS)

developer.nvidia.com

To explain better you need to understand that these are hardware features... so nVidia and AMD GPU need to support VRS at hardware level.

Today only nVidia's Turing and AMD's RDNA2 supports VRS at hardware level.

To use VRS in these hardware you need to code to metal or use an API... that is when MS enters with DirectX... MS support VRS in DX11 and DX12.
Others APIs can support VRS too like it is already supported by Vulkan and OpenGL.

PS5's GPU is RDNA2 so it support VRS at hardware level... devs can code to metal to use it or wait Sony implement the feature in their API.

Ok so PS5 most likely will use it.

Has this been discussed?
So basically, the 12tf number is nothing but mere marketing nonsense from Microsoft?

This makes no sense since AFAIK sound is processed at the CPU and not GPU. It needs hw like a CPU and the Tempest 3D is just like that. In the last gen consoles it ate up a portion of measly Jaguar cores, so even a dedicated hw offloads computation, it will be from CPU and not GPU for both next gen consoles. This one is false and it is propagating senselessly and needs to stop.

 

[-kb-]

It is impossible to not be allowed.

You have 2 options use direct call to the GPU driver (is what we call code to metal) or use an API.

In the first case you just need the GPU and the driver.
For the second option Sony needs to implement VRS in their PS5's API.

And it would be very odd for a console API not to implement one of features on its GPU that can help greatly with perf

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

And this why I think these devs are coming out trying to defend PS5, they are protecting their interests.

Dont worry, man, you are here to tell us the truth.

Keep going!

 

[kyliethicc]

That is not what the guy quoted is saying... that is why I'm questioning him.
For what I understood you can't go over the soft cap.

Oh sorry. Yeah I don't think it can go over 2.23. They capped it.

 

[Reindeer]

They certainly didn't do that during PS4 PRO and XBOX ONE X.

4k vs a little below 4k doesn't matter. Resolution didn't matter in the pro and one x.

Devs are speaking about the SSD being downplayed by many. And I think it's incumbent upon them to prove to us that the naysayers are wrong.

Show us your games. Talk is cheap. (Maybe there's a right timing for that, I don't know.)

Completely different things, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X came out one year apart from each other. I wouldn't be surprised if there were articles back then with devs praising PS4 Pro though. PS4 was also dominating to such a great extent that there was no reason to damage control anything. Devs will always protect their main cash cow, it's common sense. Games generally sell better on PlayStation so it's not surprising to see all this. Also, most of the comments were made by pro Sony devs.

 

[kyliethicc]

Quote "We believe" .,.ie..hopefully, maybe, no one knows for certain, we'll see. A belief of a possibility. Though it's not even a promise but a hope.

Yeah and Xbox just said the same thing. They hope. They assume. No guarantee.

 

[megreotsugua]

Completely different things, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X came out one year apart from each other. I wouldn't be surprised if there were articles back then with devs praising PS4 Pro. PS4 was also dominating to such a great extent that there was no reason to damage control anything. Devs will always protect their main cash cow, it's common sense. Games generally sell better on PlayStation so it's not surprising to see all this. Also, most of the comments were made by pro Sony devs.

Sure. I don't think for most people 4k vs a little below 4k matter either. I guess we'll see when the machine start selling.

I have faith in Sony's World Wide Studios though. They will show why Cerny opted for that 9gb/s throughput that can reach up to 22gb/s.

3rd party games though, just faster loading times.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC

Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Xbox Series X will have its own dedicated audio chip, which will improve the quality of sound in next-gen games, first-party engineers have told VGC.

Hardware accelerated audio looks set to be a hallmark feature of next-gen consoles, freeing up resource for previously constrained sound engineers and also enabling a number of significant features such as audio ray tracing.

Xbox studio Ninja Theory's audio team told VGC they were 'extremely excited' to finally have hardware power dedicated to their discipline.

Series X's dedicated audio chip will mean they no longer have to sacrifice sound in order to facilitate other parts of their projects, they said.

 

[Shmunter]

Has everybody seen the BC update on the PS blog.

So Cerny was talking about boosted clocks working with those 100 titles. If there's no problem it is boosted, if there is then they will do adjustments.

About time

 

[saintjules]

Ah yeah. The freaking fake people for fuck's sake what the hell.

wtf i didn't notice, knew there was something of with that dude never moving but was too focused on cerny to give it much thought

I have a theory on what that was lol. Originally I said they were cardboards, but then retracted my comment. It seems in the beginning they had People move slightly around. The guy on the far left was moving the most. Then later on, they were completely stiff, especially the guy who appears in the back row in the center left.

Maybe they recorded them and then did still shots so they didn't have to remain in the room. It must be some video trick? Overlaying a scene over Mark's. idk, I was just really curious on their delivery for this presentation.

 

[Reindeer]

.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I have a theory on what that was lol. Originally I said they were cardboards, but then retracted my comment. It seems in the beginning they had People move slightly around. The guy on the far left was moving the most. Then later on, they were completely stiff, especially the guy who appears in the back row in the center left.

Maybe they recorded them and then did still shots so they didn't have to remain in the room. It must be some video trick? Overlaying a scene over Mark's. idk, I was just really curious on their delivery for this.

LOL.

I had the video on beside me on another laptop as I was on my work laptop. I keep glancing back and forth trying to do double duty. Those 4-5 pitch black shadows seemed stiff right off the bat.

Then in one of these threads someone said they might be fakes. I immediately went back to watch and even though they seemed like statues, they did move. As you said the guy on the left half off the screen moved the most (his arm). The rest barely moved, but seemed alive.

I didn't go back to re-watch the rest as the video seemed to cut away at his PPT and him only. So I don't know how much more shadow figures were on screen later on.

So you guys are thinking they faked the silhouettes later?

That would be fucking hilarious if true. Even Sony plants can't take listening to him for an hour.

 

[Reindeer]

Sure. I don't think for most people 4k vs a little below 4k matter either. I guess we'll see when the machine start selling.

I have faith in Sony's World Wide Studios though. They will show why Cerny opted for that 9gb/s throughput that can reach up to 22gb/s.

3rd party games though, just faster loading times.

First party games from Sony should be banging even without that SSD. How you getting to 22GBs though?

 

[-kb-]

First party games from Sony should be banging even without that SSD. How you getting to 22GBs though?

Its peak output of the decompression ASIC.

 

[Reindeer]

Its peak output of the decompression ASIC.

And this is based on factual data or just wild assumptions?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm sure some of them are, but there's usually agenda with these type of things. Some of these devs sounded really defensive which was extremely strange to see.

Well, they're probably "defensive" merely because they witness forums running wild with misinformed takes regarding how "weak" PS5 is, which is the furthest thing from the truth.

You cannot judge a console on one metric alone, let alone a metric with such a minor difference (16%). It's the closest generation we've ever had in history, yet some are making a mountain out of a molehill over one metric while totally disregarding/shrugging off the biggest difference we have (220%).

You have to understand that the biggest thing developers struggled with this gen are streaming/memory management. To have that completely eliminated opens up so many gameplay/design opportunities that it should not be surprising it's the most significant feature to talk about, and consequently the biggest difference between these two boxes.

 

[FranXico]

So you guys are thinking they faked the silhouettes later?

That would be fucking hilarious.

How is the cheap "audience" effect they used in the video relevant to the discussion? The whole editing looked amateur quality. So what?

 

[-kb-]

And this is based on factual data or just wild assumptions?

Its based on the peak output from the decompression ASIC which doesn't seem that unrealistic its only 4:1 compression, which wont be happening with everything but is likely to be hit in certain cases.

 

[megreotsugua]

First party games from Sony should be banging even without that SSD. How you getting to 22GBs though?

Sure. Insomiac made an incredibly looking game with 20mb/s of streaming assets.

Now, imagine spider-man 2 with 9gb/s of insane details and resolution smacking at your face at every turn.

22gb/s is provided by Cerny in his presentation. He said that I/O throughput can reach that number provided that the data is well-compressed.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Sure. Insomiac made an incredibly looking game with 20mb/s of streaming assets.

Now, imagine spider-man 2 with 9gb/s of insane details and resolution smacking at your face at every turn.

22gb/s is provided by Cerny in his presentation. He said that I/O throughput can reach that number provided that the data is well-compressed.

Correct. 22gb/s using Kraken compression.

Source/Exact moment:

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Did Mark Cerny REVEAL the SHAPE of the PlayStation 5 Console AND BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY in the most SUBTLE way possible? (Visual Proof ITT!!!)

This is NOT a troll thread. When I saw this slide during the morning GDC presentation, I was a bit intrigued by this slide for two things: The Shape of that object resembles ALOT like a traditional console, especially the PlayStation 3 Slim....speaking of which...... The fact that the slide...

www.neogaf.com

 

[ethomaz]

First party games from Sony should be banging even without that SSD. How you getting to 22GBs though?

Using Kraken compression the SSD transfer can reach max of 22GB/s.

 

[Reindeer]

The Series X is outperforming a 2080 ti with an unoptimized port of Gears 5. DF was very conservative in saying it was performing similar to an RTX 2080

This is not correct.. DF said they saw Gears 5 benchmarked on both PC and Series X and it was running on par with 2080, not 2080 Super or 2080TI. Granted this was unoptimised code and not built to take advantage of Series X features, but to claim it's outperforming 2080TI is false

 

[ethomaz]

And this is based on factual data or just wild assumptions?

I think you need to watch Cerny presentation.
Because all of that was explained by him.

 

[Reindeer]

Well, they're probably "defensive" merely because they witness forums running wild with misinformed takes regarding how "weak" PS5 is, which is the furthest thing from the truth.

You cannot judge a console on one metric alone, let alone a metric with such a minor difference (16%). It's the closest generation we've ever had in history, yet some are making a mountain out of a molehill over one metric while totally disregarding/shrugging off the biggest difference we have (220%).

You have to understand that the biggest thing developers struggled with this gen are streaming/memory management. To have that completely eliminated opens up so many gameplay/design opportunities that it should not be surprising it's the most significant feature to talk about, and consequently the biggest difference between these two boxes.

Sorry, don't buy it. I saw enough with these fake specs not to trust these devs and take what they say at face value. I remember few months back you had Gearbox devs trying to downplay Series X because they have a console exclusive releasing on PS5. SMH.

 

[semicool]

This is not correct.. DF said they saw Gears 5 benchmarked on both PC and Series X and it was running on par with 2080, not 2080 Super or 2080TI. Granted this was unoptimised code and not built to take advantage of Series X features, but to claim it's outperforming 2080TI is false

Wrong please read: from the official Xbox site, Xbox.com, true not from DF but a report posted on Xbox.com. There is much that the 100fps with graphical enhancements in a 2 week unoptimized port that can be inferred. Also aiming for 120fps in multiplayer.

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

reiner specifically said tflops and colin said significantly more powerful. why would anyone say significantly more powerful knwoing there is a 2 tflops gap? klee also said he had access to final specs and many times specified he was talking about flops. to me, stuff just doesnt add up here.

also, i wouldnt take cerny's word for the high clocks. he also didnt confirm vrs which is going to give a big boost to performance in xbox series x games.

lastly, those extra 16 cus only take up 35-40mm2 die space. thats roughly 10-15% of the overall die. i think they downgraded the ram because they are trying to save money and want to hit the $399 price spot. ssd is smaller than 1tb too so they are saving some money there as well.

the entire console feels like a hastily hacked together mess to me. they are cheapening out on literally every single piece of tech. worse cpu, worse gpu, worse ram, and even 20% less ssd space.

There's really no reason to doubt what Cerny is saying. The clocks are mostly what you can expect for most games, and adjust slightly depending on the situation. It's not going to dramatically reduce the baseline TF like some are believing (hoping). It's only a few % difference in frequency.

I suspect VRS is baked into RDNA2 just like RT. No reason to believe it isn't there.

How do you know those extra 16 CUs only take up 10-15% of the die? That's probably nowhere near close to accurate. The CUs are one of the biggest parts of the chip. A nearly 50% increase in CUs is going to be much larger increase than 10% of the die.

I don't think RAM was downgraded. They just opted for one big pool of it, and thanks to the superior SSD it doesn't need to be as fast. They may even offload the OS partially to the SSD, meaning that Sony has a LOT more RAM to deal with.

The console seems like something put together with a genius that is laser focused on removing developer barriers in an efficient, cheap package for the masses. The CPU is what...6% less? GPU 16%? Slightly less SSD space when what's there is over 2x the competition? These aren't even worth discussing, imho. Worst case it's basically 2160p while PS5 rendering it at ~1978p.

A 40% difference is where the conversation starts for even caring, which is what we saw this past gen. And even then, it really was not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[megreotsugua]

Correct, 22gb/s using Kraken compresion.

I was saying yesterday that eventhough my dream of ReRAM, that 25gb/s, didn't happen, I feel compensated by the SSD Cerny put in there. 22gb/s is not bad.

 

[Reindeer]

Wrong please read: from the official Xbox site, Xbox.com, true not from DF but a report posted on Xbox.com

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

That article states Gears 5 was running at 100FPS, it doesn't mention at what resolution or settings. DF saw actual benchmark at 4K Ultra. You got that info all wrong.

 

[semicool]

That article states Gears 5 was running at 100FPS, it doesn't mention at what resolution or settings. DF saw actual benchmark at 4K Ultra. You got that info all wrong.

Okay I see we differ in our reading context. I'm feeling pretty positive/confident in my understanding. Would you like to bet $100 dollars that, Gears 5 on the XSX will objectively outperform a 2080ti on the PC as currently benchmarked assuming parity in graphical settings as a baseline? The judge can be a Neogaf moderator such as EvilLore or Mod of War to determine the winner? We will be able to read I'm sure a report on this by December this year. What say you?

 

[SlimySnake]

There's really no reason to doubt what Cerny is saying. The clocks are mostly what you can expect for most games, and adjust slightly depending on the situation. It's not going to dramatically reduce the baseline TF like some are believing (hoping). It's only a few % difference in frequency.

I suspect VRS is baked into RDNA2 just like RT. No reason to believe it isn't there.

How do you know those extra 16 CUs only take up 10-15% of the die? That's probably nowhere near close to accurate. The CUs are one of the biggest parts of the chip. A nearly 50% increase in CUs is going to be much larger increase than 10% of the die.

I don't think RAM was downgraded. They just opted for one big pool of it, and thanks to the superior SSD it doesn't need to be as fast. They may even offload the OS partially to the SSD, meaning that Sony has a LOT more RAM to deal with.

The console seems like something put together with a genius that is laser focused on removing developer barriers in an efficient, cheap package for the masses. The CPU is what...6% less? GPU 16%? Slightly less SSD space when what's there is over 2x the competition? These aren't even worth discussing, imho. Worst case it's basically 2160p while PS5 rendering it at ~1978p.

A 40% difference is where the conversation starts for even caring, which is what we saw this past gen. And even then, it really was not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

cus dont take that much space. ps4 cus only took up 88mm2 in a 212mm2 gpu. we know the navi 10 cu size, its only 5mm2 per dual cu. its really not that much.

2.23 ghz is basically somewhere around 250w on its own on 5700. i get that they are on rdna 2.0 and likely on a smaller node, but its pretty much impossible. im gonna have to see this thing in action because i dont believe it.

 

[ethomaz]

Okay I see we differ in our reading context. I'm feeling pretty positive in mine. Would you like to bet $100 dollars that, Gears 5 on the XSX will objectively outperform a 2080ti on the PC as currently benchmarked assuming parity in graphical settings as a baseline? The judge can be a Neogaf moderator such as EvilLore or Mod of War to determine the winner? We will be able to read I'm sure a report on this by December this year. What say you?

There is no reading context just fake news lol

 

[semicool]

There is no reading context just fake news lol

I offer the same $100 bet to you then. Will you take it?

Quote: "Okay I see we differ in our reading context. I'm feeling pretty positive in mine. Would you like to bet $100 dollars that, Gears 5 on the XSX will objectively outperform a 2080ti on the PC as currently benchmarked assuming parity in graphical settings as a baseline? The judge can be a Neogaf moderator such as EvilLore or Mod of War to determine the winner? We will be able to read I'm sure a report on this by December this year. What say you?"

 

[ethomaz]

I offer the same $100 bet to you then. Will you take it?

Nope because it will pretty hard to you pay me.
And by fake news I'm saying Xbox fans created that "news" because MS never said Gears 5 is running on Xbox better than RTX 2080TI lol

 

[Reindeer]

Okay I see we differ in our reading context. I'm feeling pretty positive in mine. Would you like to bet $100 dollars that, Gears 5 on the XSX will objectively outperform a 2080ti on the PC as currently benchmarked assuming parity in graphical setting as a baseline? The judge can be a Neogaf moderator such as EvilLore or Mod of War to determine the winner? We will be able to read I'm sure a report on this by December this year. What say you?

How do we differ in our reding context? Nowhere in that article it says it was running at 100FPS at 4K Ultra. That game wasn't even running on the same level as 2080 Super at 4K Ultra and you claiming it can comfortably beat 2080TI . Now I do think that maybe with optimisation Series X can run on par with 2080 Super, but 2080TI is a pipe dream as that GPU has way more shaders and much higher bandwidth.

 

[semicool]

Nope because it will pretty hard to you pay me.

Sounds like a complete copout. I'll even deposit to money to the mods tomorrow to send out later. Will you take it, the bet, then?

 

[semicool]

Sounds like a complete copout. I'll even deposit to money to the mods tomorrow to send out later. Will you take it, the bet, then?

I'll add I'd expect you to do the same if you take the bet.

 

[ethomaz]

Sounds like a complete copout. I'll even deposit to money to the mods tomorrow to send out later. Will you take it, the bet, then?

Deposit to where lol
I don't have international bank account.

Why some do that to themselves

 

[semicool]

Deposit to where lol
I don't have international bank account.

I'm sure they have Venmo. Venmo is a free app on your smartphone if you don't already have it. Will you take the bet then?

 

[Kusarigama]

Ok fine. The PS2 smoothed textures of PS1 games. That doesn't change the fact of how things are today. Sony is only now starting to do with MS already started with the Xbox One. At this point Sony is a full generation behind on BC, simply because they basically ditched it rather than trying to improve on it.

Sony did not ditch BC. PS4 has a PSP, PS2 and PS1 emulator. Even PS3, has after removal of the cpu and gpu of PS2 does have emulator for PS1, PS2 and PSP(which play a overwhelming majority of their games). If you jailbreak PS3 & PS4 you can use them. Sony's plan took a back seat for sure but they never stopped working on BC, evidence is quite clear with all the patents pertaining to backwards compatibility that have surfaced in the past.

I do agree that with MS blowing horns and putting BC front and center of its strategy certainly does not go with out appreciation.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm sure they have Venmo. Venmo is a free app on your smartphone if you don't already have it. Will you take the bet then?

Venmo?

I had a PayPal account but it is blocked because I couldn't give them US address proof even when I just used to buy PSN cards lol

There are $50 dollar there I will never see again.

 

[semicool]

Venmo?

I had a PayPal account but it is blocked because I could give them US address proof lol

Venmo - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's a free app on iPhone and Android....I assume you have one of those types for your smartphone?

 

[ethomaz]

Venmo - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's a free app on iPhone and Android....I assume you have one of those types for your smartphone?

I'm not even sure what are you trying to archive here.