SonGoku
Member
Here's the video but dont waste your time
I meant i prefer to read article analysis (or forum posts) rather than watch a video
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- Status
I meant i prefer to read article analysis (or forum posts) rather than watch a video
farmerboy
Member
Exactly this. I think we're reaching diminishing returns with output res, I prefer super detailed textures myself.
The devs are all fapping over the PS5 tech for a reason, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.
".. the ability to load in the highest resolution version of any asset just in front of you and drop it immediately as you turn around means that every tree can have 3d bark and moss and ants marching on it just when needed, without blowing up the budget. It's going to be great."
Who said that?
SonGoku
Member
existensmaximum
Member
Former technical art director at Naughty Dog.
Neo_game
Member
30million Xbox will be a failure for them. I think X was the same, it had great specs but I guess only hardcore upgraded their base console. Out of say 50million. I think X would have barely sold 15 out of it. IMO S version should not exist. We need a console generation where games are made for a specific system.
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ethomaz
Banned
Gran Turismo Sport will beneficies a lot with that.
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megreotsugua
Banned
gamepass effect
Audiophile
Member
Running at max clocks does not mean it's drawing maximum power. Utilization is being conflated with clock frequency; they are not the same thing.
Think...
PS5:
Constant Power: Max Clockspeed = Common Workload
Constant Power: Reduced Clockspeed = Complex Workload
XSX:
Reduced Power: Constant Clockspeed = Common Workload
Increased Power: Constant Clockspeed = Complex Workload
Now let's say you spend >90% of your time on the Common Workload, which box is making more efficient use of its total computational capability?
As console design convention dictates, MS' solution is over-engineered for the rarer Complex Workload but they could in theory increase the clocks for their Common Workload because there will be a surplus of power available in that state. They're literally leaving power (performance) on the table for the Common Workload.
Sony's solution is using all of the power (performance) available to them in both states. In addition, smartshift can be used to mitigate pullbacks further.
The XSX is a box that will spend most of its time punching a little bit below its weight.
The PS5 is a box that will spend most of its time punching a little bit above its weight.
Think...
PS5:
Constant Power: Max Clockspeed = Common Workload
Constant Power: Reduced Clockspeed = Complex Workload
XSX:
Reduced Power: Constant Clockspeed = Common Workload
Increased Power: Constant Clockspeed = Complex Workload
Now let's say you spend >90% of your time on the Common Workload, which box is making more efficient use of its total computational capability?
As console design convention dictates, MS' solution is over-engineered for the rarer Complex Workload but they could in theory increase the clocks for their Common Workload because there will be a surplus of power available in that state. They're literally leaving power (performance) on the table for the Common Workload.
Sony's solution is using all of the power (performance) available to them in both states. In addition, smartshift can be used to mitigate pullbacks further.
The XSX is a box that will spend most of its time punching a little bit below its weight.
The PS5 is a box that will spend most of its time punching a little bit above its weight.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Thyve said this about every single Console. At one point journalist were saying console gaming in its entirety was dead as well and here we are.
Gamernyc78
Banned
I've said this since the beginning and made a post earlier saying "gamepass effect". The little sales thy were making in software thy cannabalized with gamepass and planned on reducing individual game budgets bcus games would be on gamepass. Now you'll get a fleet of AA type budgeted games.
No thnx I like my AAA blockbusters with the occasional golden indie or AA game tht pops up tht turns out dope.
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Barakov
Member
What the.....I can see some studios they acquired doing that approach but there are others that should be aiming for that AAA(Outside of 343,Turn 10/Playground and the Coalition) high production value. This is why Xbox falters so far behind Sony 1st party stuff. The people in charge just aren't willing to spend the money, the manpower and the time to reach the next level.
ZywyPL
Banned
To be fair, if that's really the case, this sounds even more that Sony has messed up rather than a well-thought engineering... Because how hard can it be? You just put a heatsing/heatpipe/vapor chamber on top ot the chip, put a lot of fins, and supply enough airflow with appropriately sized fan and vents, that's how it's done on PC since forever, that's how X1X and XBX work as well, and not only that, but they are whisper quiet as well. Cooling silicon chips is not a rocket science, at its core it's basically just a piece of metal and air moving through it, that's all. So yeah, we will see how Sony's efforts turn out to perform, like I said, if this rumor turns out to be indeed true (and the console looks so fugly because of that and they are scared to show it), there's no excuse for the console not running dead silent 24/7 at even the hardest possible workloads.
SSfox
Member
I think this apply for all but not initiative. I'd be surprise they hired all those guys to not push things above a AA game.
But yeah seems like more quantity and less quality to fill that gamepass.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Even in Mark Cerny's PS5 tec talk he even said basically the PS4 is loud as fuck and the PS5 is going to be quieter than the PS4 but that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Xbox said something along the lines of the XSX will be a quiet machine which i'm quite confident it will be.
Edit i hope i'm wrong with the PS5 as there should be no excuse now.
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THEAP99
Banned
Hi I don't know where else to ask this so I'll ask here. Recently someone told me that despite the ps3 f*ck up, it still outsold the 360 each year the two were on the market. Is this true? If so, can I get some sources on it? Thanks! I'd be very surprised if that was true considering how money they lose compared to Xbox that gen.
THEAP99
Banned
As soon I as read that months ago I knew something was up. I honestly don't like this subscription focus at all and won't invest in an Xbox again if this is the focus. Not for me.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
To be honest, I hate xbox, but it's pretty obvious how cleaner and sharper X1X there. Resolution is a big part of graphics as well.
Metroiddarks
Member
This is good and bad, Nintendo works in a similar way few AAA but with much more AA games the problem with is the scope for some users the games
could be disappointed. They will still need at least one AAA game per year with a couple of AA I know is not much but is the minimum.
So that AAA will games like halo,gears,forza, hellblade, also from Initiatie studio which is working in AAA.
But I don't see it bad in general I am actually more worried about how Xbox studios will threat a bad game in sales and critic which will happen soon or later, my fear is they go to extremes:
1.-Close the studio reducing the options in the future
2.-Ignore the problem and start to have some generic/bad titles which devalue the brand
Imtjnotu
Member
@
Google man.
TBiddy
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Exactly this. I think we're reaching diminishing returns with output res, I prefer super detailed textures myself.
The devs are all fapping over the PS5 tech for a reason, and I can't wait to see what they do with it.
".. the ability to load in the highest resolution version of any asset just in front of you and drop it immediately as you turn around means that every tree can have 3d bark and moss and ants marching on it just when needed, without blowing up the budget. It's going to be great."
I would love it if PS5 is "stackable", as they did here for their 8K@120fps HDR, Ray traced Gran Turismo here:
That would be much easier without the need of making a PS5 Pro. Imagine what a beast it'll be!
FranXico
Member
As a developer, that would actually be good. Scope scales with team. Contrast with Sony who expect 50 people teams to make large open world AAA games.
As soon I as read that months ago I knew something was up. I honestly don't like this subscription focus at all and won't invest in an Xbox again if this is the focus. Not for me.
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Metroiddarks
Member
Question for you guys what kind of modifications or extra hardware do you think PS5 will have to
play VR in a better way ?
In my opinion the VR was one of the reasons for what Sony add a SSD so fast compare than others in the market.
play VR in a better way ?
In my opinion the VR was one of the reasons for what Sony add a SSD so fast compare than others in the market.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Lunatic_Gamer
Member
Sony estimates that there will be no impact on Game & Network Services segment for the current fiscal year.
www.sony.net
Statement Regarding the Impact of the Spread of the Novel Coronavirus
Sony extends its condolences to the families of those who have passed away as a result of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) (
FeiRR
Banned
After playing most of MS's offer on Game Pass, I'm not surprised at all. 9 out of 10 of those games were just a waste of time. The only thing I enjoyed entirely was Ori but it's not an AAA game. Microsoft's offer is for people who don't have high expectations, kind of Netflix of games. They're going to have a powerful, expensive console with a plethora of games like that new Ninja Theory title I even forgot the name because it took me longer to download than check and delete. And I have quite fast Internet.
Bleeding Edge, that's the name of this crap.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
And people wonder why I want them as a company to go to oblivion, they're a curse to gaming
Imagine they've had the upper hand. No respectful company would've accepted its games to be sold for pennies day one.
SgtCaffran
Member
That's funny because Sony has recently been rumored to promote the PS5 to devs as "Netflix for games". However, the Sony comparison probably leans on ultrafast (aka non-existent) loading and straight to the action.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
As expected, people think a generic company like Microsoft would have the passion, love, time, budget to its games like Sony does. Wishful thinking. Now they're twisting words in that thread as if he knows shit and they know better than him, or let's say they're closer to saying that he's lying. No wonder it's been designed as a bin.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Netflix makes some great movies and series. Now we understand:
Phil Spencer says Amazon and Google are Xbox's real competition
But will still fall short of Series X performance. At least Sony maximizes their platform better yes. For 399 it's a hell of a machine .
FeiRR
Banned
But hey, Spencer is such a passionate gamer! Yeah, he might be but he doesn't make the decisions, his supervisors say dance and he has to dance, this is how a corporation works. If you've been using Microsoft products for 30 years and you know they are everything but quality and innovation, why would you fall for it? Because a few teenagers on Internet say you are a fanboy?
SgtCaffran
Member
From what I heard and what I think myself based on the information we have... they're going to play 3rd party games almost identically. I really feel nobody will be able to spot which is which in a blind test.
But that being said, yes the XsX will have the better raw (GPU) performance. I just wonder what will happen if the PS5 will be 50/100 $ cheaper and runs 3rd party games very much the same. Especially if you consider that the PS5 might have superior audio and haptic feedback for fps-gamers.
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DemonCleaner
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
No one knows, some say a stack of PS4 Pros connected together, or maybe early PS5 dev kits stacked, like what they've designed them already to do.
To make that possible, you need the power of at least 10 PS4 Pros, for PS5 probably a stack of 2-3 could do it.
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kyliethicc
Member
I don't think any Sony studio is under even 100 people, except maybe Media Molecule. (And PixelOpus, but they're not making AAA games.) Naughty Dog is like 300+, Santa Monica is like 200, Guerrilla is on its way to being like 400 people, Japan Studio is probably big. Idk about Polyphony. Sucker Punch seems big too etc.... Maybe Bend isn't huge but idk. Kojima Prods isnt Sony owned, and Kojima Prods employees may be smaller than it was at Konami, but hundreds worked on Death Stranding from lots of Sony divisions, lots of Guerrilla devs too. I don't think a 50 person team has made a Sony 1st party game since.... maybe DriveClub or the Order 1886? but I bet even Evolution Studios was over 50+.
FranXico
Member
San Diego is also fairly small, iirc? What they pulled off with Days Gone is impressive for a studio their size.
kyliethicc
Member
Well yeah you're right, Sony was telling devs (according to Jason Schreier) that they wanted to make turning on the PS5 and playing a game as quick and simple as turning on a phone or TV and watching Netflix. That's just the focus on speed, no loading etc. Microsoft wants Xbox to just start getting monthly revenue and user data from Game Pass and be a subscription service.
kyliethicc
Member
Bend did Days Gone. And yeah I don't think they're as big as some others, but still probably 100+. San Diego is rumored for have to expanded, they did move into a new bigger building. Some think they're making a new Uncharted game. The known San Diego team does the MLB game. I have no idea how many devs that team is.
FranXico
Member
My mistake, yes, I wanted to refer to Bend.
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FeiRR
Banned
Oh, I'm sure Digital Foundry will make a lot of videos about every frame dropping in PS5 multiplat games
This isn't anything new. Digital Polyphony has been experimenting with network rendering for years. Here's a video of GT running on 3 PS2s and another one of 5 PS3s. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything in English. I remember also ND did similar tests with networked PS4s and Uncharted.
The problem with this method is, consumer-grade network adapters are 1 gigabit speed max (about 125 MB/s). That's far too little for sending graphics data over network. The only way you can do it is distributing workload and using network to sync the output. Great for sims like GT and setups for shows, demo races, etc. but each console will always output only to it's dedicated screen. Would you like to have 3-5 TVs, consoles, copies of the game, cables, etc.?
If you look closely at the raytraced GT video, you'll see a black line in the top left corner of the screen. That's probably where one of the outputed "screens" (tiles) loses a bit of sync for a moment. And I assure you, putting all this together on one screen takes a lot of hardware, calibration, supporting equipment. It's never going to happen in consumer products.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Oh, I'm sure Digital Foundry will make a lot of videos about every frame dropping in PS5 multiplat games
This isn't anything new. Digital Polyphony has been experimenting with network rendering for years. Here's a video of GT running on 3 PS2s and another one of 5 PS3s. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything in English. I remember also ND did similar tests with networked PS4s and Uncharted.
The problem with this method is, consumer-grade network adapters are 1 gigabit speed max (about 125 MB/s). That's far too little for sending graphics data over network. The only way you can do it is distributing workload and using network to sync the output. Great for sims like GT and setups for shows, demo races, etc. but each console will always output only to it's dedicated screen. Would you like to have 3-5 TVs, consoles, copies of the game, cables, etc.?
Nah, would only stack 2 PS5 if I could. But amazing details, thanks!
FeiRR
Banned
Hellblade, State of Decay and Age of Empires are AAA games all of a sudden? Oh, I forgot some people on GAF claim Ori is AAA
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
So he knows better than Matt Booty? Let's check out what's his work there might be just a cleaner:
Hmmm? Maybe he was drunk, Xbox fans know better.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
It works for Nintendo as Switch is a portable device and hasn't got the specs to push graphics.
MS going for the same approach with '12 tflops' $500 machine is patently absurd if you ask me!
Deeper Underground
Member
So he knows better than Matt Booty? Let's check out what's his work there might be just a cleaner:
Hmmm? Maybe he was drunk, Xbox fans know better.
Apparently he's a hardcore Xbox insider with many inside sources so I don't doubt his info, but I wouldn't go to him for comparison between Xbox and PS5.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
But he's the Head of Xbox Studios?
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