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[PaintTinJr]

I'm not sure why accessing the "slower" 6GB over its 3 x 64 bit channels (assuming it's 64-bit channels like RDNA1) would disable the remaining two 64-bit channels.

MS said that access to the 6GB normal memory was at 336GB/s, not that accessing that 6GB of memory reduce entire system bandwidth to 336GB/s.

Now it might be that depending on what data the GPU was waiting for, and how it was striped across the memory channels, that the CPU, IO etc could effectively block or slow accesses that also used the remaining channels on the remaining 128-bits of the bus .... but that's very different from saying that a CPU access inherently blocks access to memory channels it's not using.

There's a whole lot of imagining worst case scenarios for the XSX memory setup!

Digital Foundry said it in an article or a video for definite, but I have a sneaky feeling the article or video has been revised as I can't find it going back through. They definitely said that accessing any part of the 6GB with the GPU dropped the bandwidth to 336GB/s, and any access from the CPU to the 10GB/s dropped the bandwidth to 336GB/s, also.

It is possible that they were mistaken to say that, but it feels far more like them trying to avoid the narrative that people who understand bus contention can illustrate that it is more likely a loss than a win on the memory front– DF themselves use the word 'compromise' when describing the asymmetric memory model, because they know it was done for either GDDR6 availability/GDDR6 chip-speed/size costs, and stability issues when pushing to 3.8GHz and 12TF.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Thats right, accessing the slower access portion is that, and on a shared common bus nothing else is happening, there are no 2 busses or individual straws. And when the system is accessing the slower access RAM, its precious time wasted.

Maybe MS will increase the RAM amount and way it is connected up before release, who knows ? Maybe they will keep all CPU and GPU and sound and everything running in the 10 GB if they can and do some clever jiggery pokery...who knows.

Maybe most games wont need more than 10 gb....

It's a lot more complex than that. The bus is split up into channels - at least 5 on XSX, at least 4 on PS5 - and they can all service different requests simultaneously.

The whole point is that one channel can be servicing a request for one part of the system (e.g. CPU) and and other channel can be servicing a request for another (e.g. GPU).

MS didn't say that accessing the slower area of memory shut down all access to the faster area. That wouldn't actually make sense.

 

[megreotsugua]

Guys, stop harrassing Odium. I'm all for giving them a good ribbing, but the time for that has passed. Let's not turn into Xbox era discord and lead harassment campaigns against individuals just because they got a lousy number wrong. It's not like anyone else including lord github got it right anyway. Clearly this thing was in flux.

Odium, just an fyi, posting riddles after how you guys jerked us around for months is a bad idea. The wounds are still fresh.

Somebody got it right though but no one paid him attention. He said real world performance will be almost identical between them anyway. Basically what the dice dev and crytek dev are saying.

Hi! Long time lurker here. I decided to register just to guess the TF of PS5. Playstation has been my main console ever since the first one and I'm going to buy PS5 at launch along with a brand new 4k tv.
Ok, here's my thoughts. I think the PS5 will be around 10-10,5 TF. This goes against the insiders here but it's my guess anyway. I think xbox will have the TF-advantage. Real world performance will be almost identical between them anyway.
That's my guess, maybe we will get answers tomorrow? I'm hyped and I think it will be a great gen!

 

[Rolling_Start]

Digital Foundry said it in an article or a video for definite, but I have a sneaky feeling the article or video has been revised as I can't find it going back through. They definitely said that accessing any part of the 6GB with the GPU dropped the bandwidth to 336GB/s, and any access from the CPU to the 10GB/s dropped the bandwidth to 336GB/s, also.

It is possible that they were mistaken to say that, but it feels far more like them trying to avoid the narrative that people who understand bus contention can illustrate that it is more likely a loss than a win on the memory front– DF themselves use the word 'compromise' when describing the asymmetric memory model, because they know it was done for either GDDR6 availability/GDDR6 chip-speed/size costs, and stability issues when pushing to 3.8GHz and 12TF.

Accessing the slower 6GB with the GPU can only be done at 336 GB/s, but that doesn't mean the GPU can't still access the remaining chips across the remaining portion of the bus. That would depending on what other accesses you had going on.

The article also only talks about CPU, IO, audio access being at 336 GB/s. They can only ever access any part of memory at that speed (even the GPU optimal memory). It's probably something to do with the way none GPU access to memory is controlled or arbitrated or the internal bus it's on.

But it was never said that the CPU, IO, audio accessing the "faster" 560 GB/s range of memory limited the GPU to those speeds. It wouldn't. The memory channels and the memory speeds don't change.

 

[Rolling_Start]

The only thing I would add is that is that GPU is locked off from accessing the 6Gb/336Gbs pool and can ONLY see the 10Gb pool.

As far as I can see, the GPU can access the whole range, so you'd be fine to, say, texture out of the slower 3.5 GB if, incredibly, the rest of your game code, audio, IO, and whatever working pool for decompressing ( P psorcerer idea, I can't take credit!) didn't use it all up.

 

[megreotsugua]

This is not us "Sony fanboys" it's actual developers.

Why is it that when this dev spoke about the parity between two consoles, nobody paid attention.

But when a Crytek developer spoke about the same, everyone jumped on board.

Time and time again, developers are basically saying the same thing.

Cerny was a genius to be able to make PS5 so efficient to perform in equal terms to a 12TF machine.

 

[mitchman]

I don't think there is a clear analog to this technology except the AMD SSG technology. This isn't a simple virtual swap file. The SSD implementation bypasses the normal "asking the CPU to fetch game data over the PCIE bus the dump into VRAM" process by storing files for entire projects locally on the GPU itself. Those files remain resident until cleared by the application or user, and only need to be migrated to the that bespoke GPU connected partition of the SSD once.

Memory mapped files is not "virtual swap file" and never has been in any OS in the past, it should be clear enough by the name.

The GPU can now communicate directly with this local storage (that portion of the SSD has its own channels directly to the GPU no PCIE access necessary) when its own VRAM capacity has been exceeded or is tapped for other implementations. The GPU will be able to dump or pull geometry, textures, shaders, and other models into the SSD rather than limited VRAM, and the CPU can also work on that data simultaneously.

I'm not aware of another implementation of NAND direct to GPU with 100Gb of instant access. other than the Radeon Pro SSG implementation. If you can provide a similar outline I would be glad to read up on it.

A memory mapped file appear for the application as regular memory, but the OS will map it into a virtual memory space and any access to this memory will go on disk to get the data. Yes, this has been around for decades. GPU and CPU now using unified memory just means the GPU can access this memory mapped file as if it was a CPU. There is nothing new and revolutionary here, unless you're not an experienced developer that is.
I recommend reading up on memory mapped files.

Edit: I realize I might come off as arrogant in this port. Sorry, that is not my intention. This is just areas I've been working with for 30 years now as a developer on a console (wii, middleware for Nintendo) and browsers.

 

[geordiemp]

It's a lot more complex than that. The bus is split up into channels - at least 5 on XSX, at least 4 on PS5 - and they can all service different requests simultaneously.

The whole point is that one channel can be servicing a request for one part of the system (e.g. CPU) and and other channel can be servicing a request for another (e.g. GPU).

MS didn't say that accessing the slower area of memory shut down all access to the faster area. That wouldn't actually make sense.

If it was like you speak, then XSX would be no quicker than PS5, as each 2GB RAM is 14 gbps, and both would be 448 for the GPU access.

Reemember the RAM is the same speed in both consoles, only reason XSX is faster for 10 GB is the wider bus..

The only way XSX is quicker and 560 is when you use all the bus for the GPU, so you need all the memory bus for GPU to be quick..and when CPU is accessing the slower access RAM GPU cannot have all of the bus..

You cant have it all, you cannot have the same RAM chips on both consoles and XSX magically gets to 560 without being wider....

 

[Gediminas]

Why is it that when this dev spoke about the parity between two consoles, nobody paid attention.

But when a Crytek developer spoke about the same, everyone jumped on board.

Time and time again, developers are basically saying the same thing.

Cerny was a genius to be able to make PS5 so efficient to perform in equal terms to a 12TF machine.

lets see if that efficient comes with the price. because if PS5 cost the same, what is bloody point?

i personally think, that Sony would cost the same as xbox. i don't see them going cheaper just for customers sake. for me personally, all of their management of PS4 and PS5 of the last year or two screams the as PS3 days are back, out of touch, arrogant and ignorant, til of course they drop down on their faces.

 

[kensama]

Why is it that when this dev spoke about the parity between two consoles, nobody paid attention.

But when a Crytek developer spoke about the same, everyone jumped on board.

Time and time again, developers are basically saying the same thing.

Cerny was a genius to be able to make PS5 so efficient to perform in equal terms to a 12TF machine.

Because insane Xbox fanboy want to try to FUD that PS5 will be a complete failure due to this gen.
Yes that stupid.
But they don't accept that MS is the only one responsible for their failure with the Xbox One

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

lets see if that efficient comes with the price. because if PS5 cost the same, what is bloody point?

i personally think, that Sony would cost the same as xbox. i don't see them going cheaper just for customers sake. for me personally, all of their management of PS4 and PS5 of the last year or two screams the as PS3 days are back, out of touch, arrogant and ignorant, til of course they drop down on their faces.

Interesting. I haven't seen any of that, care to point out where and how Sony acted arrogant and ignorant latly?

 

[geordiemp]

i personally think, that Sony would cost the same as xbox. i don't see them going cheaper just for customers sake. for me personally, all of their management of PS4 and PS5 of the last year or two screams the as PS3 days are back, out of touch, arrogant and ignorant, til of course they drop down on their faces.

Go tell em warrior



That gIF makes me laugh so much

 

[megreotsugua]

i personally think, that Sony would cost the same as xbox. i don't see them going cheaper just for customers sake. for me personally, all of their management of PS4 and PS5 of the last year or two screams the as PS3 days are back, out of touch, arrogant and ignorant, til of course they drop down on their faces.

I also think they will come at the same price although PS5 has likely a lower BOM. I also think that PS5 will not be a tower design. I also think that PS5 has no loading times while XSeX is 6 seconds at best.

I think the last year or two scream they are preparing for the PS5 while they continue to provide us with AAA games. If not for the corona virus, Sony said they will do small local events where the players could perhaps try the games for themselves. That controller and 3D audio must be hard to convey in youtube videos.

 

[DaMonsta]

For the CPU (timestamped):



For the GPU AGAIN (timestamped):



They mentioned it SEVERAL times like Richard said during their visit to Microsoft HQ, this was posted two days before "The Road to PS5" event was live-streamed on Wednesday, March 18th. Meaning, Microsoft knew beforehand that Sony were going with boost clocks and they wanted to make sure that they let everyone know that their clocks are always LOCKED at the exact same frequency at all times.

Another popular tech YouTuber, Austin Evans also visited Microsoft HQ and posted a video that very same day covering all of the Series X's specs (timestamped).



He also mentions that the CPU runs at "sustained" clock speeds, and he EVEN goes on to say "and that's not some kind of BOOST speed or anything, it can run at 3.8 GHz SUSTAINED, pretty much forever." It's almost as if he was told to say that rather than him choosing to mention it out of nowhere for whatever reason like people don't know that or something.

When he's talking about the GPU's specs (timestamped):



Even on the graphic, it's mentioned that the GPU clock is "sustained" as in like the clock speed is locked and will always remain the same.

Again, none of that is Microsoft themselves advertising the clocks as "fixed" if you check any official Microsoft spec sheets or information it just lists the clock speeds because that's the norm. Variable clocks like the ones in the PS5 are not.

Microsoft can't make the content creators say anything.

Boost clocks were a thing before PS5 was announced. Some people even speculated that the 12TF was achieved through some type of boost.

Nobody was preemptively trying to shade PS5. That's ridiculous, lol

 

[geordiemp]

Again, none of that is Microsoft themselves advertising the clocks as "fixed" if you check any official Microsoft spec sheets or information it just lists the clock speeds because that's the norm. Variable clocks like the ones in the PS5 and Switch and Apple and PCs and Laptops with variations ............

Fixed that for you.

 

[DaMonsta]

Fixed that for you.

No, the one in PS5 is specifically different from those.

 

[Rolling_Start]

If it was like you speak, then XSX would be no quicker than PS5, as each 2GB RAM is 14 gbps, and both would be 446 for the GPU access.

So in this example where the XSX CPU is tying up one of the memory channels, and leaving less bandwidth for the GPU ... are you assuming that the the PS5 CPU doesn't need to access memory, and it doesn't take bandwidth that the GPU could otherwise use?

On both systems the CPU is going to take away from the GPU. It's a shared bus.

The only way XSX is quicker and 560 is when you use all the bus for the GPU.

Or if, potentially, accesses allow you to use 4 of the channels for the GPU and 1 channel for the CPU.

Or 2 for the GPU and 3 for the CPU. Or whatever combination gets you to 5.

Memory accesses is split into channels so you can serve multiple requests, whenever possible, and leave less of your potential bandwidth unused.

You cant have it all, you cannot have the same RAM chips on both consoles and XSX magically gets to 560 only using a similar 256 bus width....

It's not magic. It's five 64-bit channels across a 320-bit bus as opposed to four across 256.

 

[Fake]

Guys, stop harrassing Odium. I'm all for giving them a good ribbing, but the time for that has passed. Let's not turn into Xbox era discord and lead harassment campaigns against individuals just because they got a lousy number wrong. It's not like anyone else including lord github got it right anyway. Clearly this thing was in flux.

Odium, just an fyi, posting riddles after how you guys jerked us around for months is a bad idea. The wounds are still fresh.

I don't have any problem with insiders, even when their information got wrong.
I have a particular problem with Odium BECAUSE after every supost insider get wrong including him, he post we 'should put a bell of shame in everyone who got his prevision wrong'.
I never found so much hypocrisy in on person like this one. 'I wrong my bet, but I want everyone who get wrong be bully'. WTF dude?
His Odium in particular needs teraphy. Asking for others insiders to get bully is hypocrisy in galaxy levels.

I'll repeat again in case is not clear: He ask for harrassing other insiders who get their info wrong. I find this unacceptble.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Accessing the slower 6GB with the GPU can only be done at 336 GB/s, but that doesn't mean the GPU can't still access the remaining chips across the remaining portion of the bus. That would depending on what other accesses you had going on.

The article also only talks about CPU, IO, audio access being at 336 GB/s. They can only ever access any part of memory at that speed (even the GPU optimal memory). It's probably something to do with the way none GPU access to memory is controlled or arbitrated or the internal bus it's on.

But it was never said that the CPU, IO, audio accessing the "faster" 560 GB/s range of memory limited the GPU to those speeds. It wouldn't. The memory channels and the memory speeds don't change.

You could be correct, but surely if that were the case they would have officially had DF clear up the confusion to control the message as a definite win, no?

My guess is that they messed up and pulled the trigger on 20GB unified 560GB/s for both CPU and GPU access. Then they found signal integrity issues in late testing when pushing for 12TF, and were forced to chose slower GPU clock with 20GB or asymmetric ram or noisy console - for heat reasons to maintain integrity. The asymmetric ram solution they've chose AFAIK is that in any one data clock they can access the 6GB of the memory at 336GB/s from GPU or CPU, but not both sharing on a single data clock. And CPU can access the 10GB at 336GB/s exclusively, or the GPU can access it at 560GB/s exclusively, in a single data clock.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Again, none of that is Microsoft themselves advertising the clocks as "fixed" if you check any official Microsoft spec sheets or information it just lists the clock speeds because that's the norm. Variable clocks like the ones in the PS5 are not.

Microsoft can't make the content creators say anything.

Boost clocks were a thing before PS5 was announced. Some people even speculated that the 12TF was achieved through some type of boost.

Nobody was preemptively trying to shade PS5. That's ridiculous, lol

Dark1X does emphasize 'stable clocks' in the DF Redmond XsX reveal very early in the video. Obviously the reveal is tightly scripted by Xbox, so it was implied these were Xbox words.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I don't have any problem with insiders, even when their information got wrong.
I have a particular problem with Odium BECAUSE after every supost insider get wrong including him, he post we 'should put a bell of shame in everyone who got his prevision wrong'.
I never found so much hypocrisy in on person like this one. 'I wrong my bet, but I want everyone who get wrong be bully'. WTF dude?
His Odium in particular needs teraphy. Asking for others insiders to get bully is hypocrisy in galaxy levels.

I did what? I said what?

Erm...?

I haven't said anything of the sort, ever?

What are you even on about? I asked for other insiders to be bullied...? Having spoken to several of them before AND after, I would love to know what the hell you are talking about?

Please, enlighten me?

This has actually annoyed me a bit because I have never once said anything of the sort calling to arms and asking people to bully others. I would be frog marched off here quicker than anything.

So I'm waiting for you to clarify your bullshit, thank you.

Edit: it's now been 20 minutes, and you have failed to reply to my question, but have instead added an edit to your own post that I requested other people harass other insiders. So... show me the receipts?

 

[Fake]

Microsoft will show today once again info about seX. Lets see if they make things clear.

 

[Shmunter]

Microsoft will show today once again info about seX. Lets see if they make things clear.

Is it a tech dive? What are the odds of them clearing up the ram configuration?

 

[lepermessiah]

I'll end up with every system, but I think I've built a rig the likes of which would make Cerny juicy.

 

[DaMonsta]

Dark1X does emphasize 'stable clocks' in the DF Redmond XsX reveal very early in the video. Obviously the reveal is tightly scripted by Xbox, so it was implied these were Xbox words.

Microsoft had their reveal on their own website. No official information stresses that point.

In their talk with DF they told them the clocks were fixed. In DF video they decided to make it a point to say the clocks were fixed.

Microsoft does not dictate what DF says in their videos. If the clocks being "fixed" was a major marketing point for Microsoft they would be shouting it any and everywhere.

 

[CJY]

I'll just put this here:

Controversy
A Federal Trade Commission investigation uncovered an undisclosed paid endorsement deal between Microsoft Studios and Machinima Inc. Microsoft Studios paid for fake organic reviews, and bound Machinima Inc. to "not portray [Microsoft], the Xbox One, or the Launch Titles in a negative manner". Ryse: Son of Rome was specifically listed in the FTC document as being one of the titles to receive fake reviews, and price quotes for these reviews range between $15,000 and $30,000.[61]

MS have been proven to be a bunch of liars, cheaters and scammers, they are masters of it dating all the way back to early 90s, and have a long history of manipulating the press.

Neither DF nor Austin Evans explicitly stated they didn't get paid for their videos. Neither stated that all the views were their own. Neither stated that their videos weren't reviewed before being posted. It can only be assumed that all the information presented was communicated to them directly from Microsoft.

They were right there in Redmond, spouting off about sustained clocks and fixed clocks before the The Road to PS5.

I don't care what anyone else says... if it stinks like shit, and it looks like shit, it's probably shit.

EDIT: Please note I'm not trying to throw DF or Austin Evans under the bus, they are entitled to do whatever they want, but for anybody to not be able to see that they acted as official mouthpieces for MS on the 16th of March, 2020... well, that is just thick as shit.

 

[FranXico]

Cerny was a genius to be able to make PS5 so efficient to perform in equal terms to a 12TF machine.

It won't be exactly on equal terms, but for most people it will be close enough.

 

[saintjules]

Why is it that when this dev spoke about the parity between two consoles, nobody paid attention.

But when a Crytek developer spoke about the same, everyone jumped on board.

I think it's because with Crytek, that information was posted on media outlets and caused to get attention versus capturing something from a forum post. Maybe? I could be wrong on that though.

 

[Mod of War]

You do have your work cut out.

Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Thank you.

 

[Fake]

Is it a tech dive? What are the odds of them clearing up the ram configuration?

Is a tech dive I guess. Dunno if they will talk about ram config, but finger cross about they talk everythink.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Is a tech dive I guess. Dunno if they will talk about ram config, but finger cross about they talk everythink.

Still waiting for you to clarify where I've suggested other users harass other insiders, or done so myself. You seem to have time to post, but not answer this.

I'm all for a bit of ribbing for being wrong, but you just essentially called me a bully and somebody who wanted to incite some sort of mass forum brawl.

I won't make any other posts about it as clearly you have nothing to back this statement up, and I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Shmunter]

It won't be exactly on equal terms, but for most people it will be close enough.

Geez all these useless TF discussion when the basic truth is PS5 has more potential as a sum of its parts. I concede it may not be exploited all that often and many cross platform games may have an advantage on XsX, albeit significantly smaller than current gen platform differences. But what the PS5 can do, nothing else can touch it - on paper at least.

Why people just can't agree on the obvious is fascinating in itself. But then again I also enjoy politics and see even bigger leaps of logic quite often.

 

[lepermessiah]

But you see we can't be nuanced about this and grant advantages for both consoles, nah, that's asking too much now, plus Cerny hasn't built a rig like mine.

 

[DaMonsta]

Geez all these useless TF discussion when the basic truth is PS5 has more potential as a sum of its parts. I concede it may not be exploited all that often and many cross platform games may have an advantage on XsX, albeit significantly smaller than current gen platform differences. But what the PS5 can do, nothing else can touch it - on paper at least.

Why people just can't agree on the obvious is fascinating in itself. But then again I also enjoy politics and see even bigger leaps of logic quite often.

Because it's not "obvious"

For all of PS5s "advantages" we have to think in the abstract or imagine things we don't know exist yet.

We have countless examples of cards losing efficiency the higher the clock, but with PS5 we are supposed to believe the low CU count, and super high clock somehow increases efficiency and removes bottlenecks.

We see how boost clocks work in every other piece of hardware, but with PS5 we have to believe it works differently and the "boost" isn't really a "boost" but a sustainable number except for if the game gets too intensive, then it will automatically throttle, but devs can optimize specifically for power to control the throttling to their advantage.

SSDs have been in use forever, and we can see their benefits. But since PS5s is the fastest we are supposed to believe "PS5 can do things nothing else can touch" but we have no idea what those things are, or why a slower SSD could not do those things.

None of this is "obvious" or simple.

PS5 could be magical hardware that defies everything we thought we knew about gaming hardware, but Sony is gonna have to prove that. You can't expect people to believe it just cause they said it

 

[SonGoku]

So the answer is: yes it will lower the GPU bandwidth, and no probably not as badly as in the naive case.
And bonus: memory usage.
From our bandwidth numbers we can assume for the last (realistic) case: 9GB of 10GB pool used in 1 second, <1GB of the 6GB pool used in the same 1 second. So yes other 2.5GB available will be best used for SSD decompression it seems.

Thanks for the explanation even though i only got 30% of it
Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this

Spoiler

You need to have address space symmetry in order have interleaving of the RAM, i.e. you need to have all your chips presenting the same "capacity" of memory in order for it to work. Looking at the diagram above, you can see the SX's configuration, the first 1 GB of each RAM chip is interleaved across the entire 320-bit memory interface, giving rise to 10 GB operating with a bandwidth of 560 GB/s but what about the other 6 GB of RAM?

Those two banks of three chips either side of the processor house 2 GB per chip. How does that extra 1 GB get accessed? It can't be accessed at the same time as the first 1 GB because the memory interface is saturated. What happens, instead, is that the memory controller must instead "switch" to the interleaved addressable space covered by those 6x 1 GB portions. This means that, for the 6 GB "slower" memory (in reality, it's not slower but less wide) the memory interface must address that on a separate clock cycle if it wants to be accessed at the full width of the available bus.

The fallout of this can be quite complicated depending on how Microsoft have worked out their memory bus architecture. It could be a complete "switch" whereby on one clock cycle the memory interface uses the interleaved 10 GB portion and on the following clock cycle it accesses the 6 GB portion. This implementation would have the effect of averaging the effective bandwidth for all the memory. If you average this access, you get 280 for the 10 GB portion and 168 GB/s for the 6 GB portion for a given time frame but individual cycles would be counted at their full bandwidth.

However, there is another scenario with memory being assigned to each portion based on availability. In this configuration, the memory bandwidth (and access) is dependent on how much RAM is in use. Below 10 GB, the RAM will always operate at 560 GB/s. Above 10 GB utilisation, the memory interface must start switching or splitting the access to the memory portions. I don't know if it's technically possible to actually access two different interleaved portions of memory simultaneously by using the two 16-bit channels of the GDDR6 chip but if it were (and the standard appears to allow for it), you'd end up with 392/168 GB/s memory bandwidth.

If Microsoft were able to simultaneously access and decouple individual chips from the interleaved portions of memory through their memory controller then you could theoretically push the access to an asymmetric balance, being able to switch between a pure 560 GB/s for 10 GB RAM and a mixed 224 GB/s from 4 GB of that same portion and the full 336 GB/s of the 6 GB portion (also pictured above). This seems unlikely to my understanding of how things work and undesirable from a technical standpoint in terms of game memory access and also architecture design.

Spoiler

MS said that access to the 6GB normal memory was at 336GB/s, not that accessing that 6GB of memory reduce entire system bandwidth to 336GB/s.

The contention I mentioned has to do with access between pools it can't be simultaneous. Im rather curious how it all works and seen a few comments on ree from technical inclined members which is why i brought it up. Anyways you can check above the relevant bits which go in more detail about it. P psorcerer conclusion is similar to lady gaias

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

I won't make any other posts about it as clearly you have nothing to back this statement up, and I don't want to derail the thread.

Can you back this statement up? Or is it the same fake shit you have been spreading here in this thread?

 

[geordiemp]

So in this example where the XSX CPU is tying up one of the memory channels, and leaving less bandwidth for the GPU ... are you assuming that the the PS5 CPU doesn't need to access memory, and it doesn't take bandwidth that the GPU could otherwise use?

On both systems the CPU is going to take away from the GPU. It's a shared bus.

Yup....bandwidth reduces for both systems, the difference is that Ps5 will access its CPU and sound and other non GPU data at the same 448 speed, and hence it takes up less time away from the GPU needs.

Lady Gaia explains it nicely, assumes typical CPU bandwidth requirement of 48 GBs and in constant use in the slower access RAM, as thats the way code runs, CPU runs code, GPU displays what its told..

Funnily enough, taking the CPU access out, it leaves 39 GBs GPU access per TF for both......strange that......I am sure MS and SONY know what they are doing, and that is not a coincidence. But it could also be a leveller for both systems on big asset games....

Both are equally bandwidth limited and RAM limited IMO. Maybe one of them will slash out and upgrade as a last minute move, Sony with 16 gbps or MS with more RAM. to feed the wider bus properly...

Both Sony and MS have chosen compromises based on RAM costs. Both are not ideal.

Hence why I tyhink the RDNA2 silicon is more expensive than everyone thinks, as both have made big compromises on costs...and we are not seeing $ 399 ...

 

[FranXico]

Can you back this statement up? Or is it the same fake shit you have been spreading here in this thread?

What the hell is that? Trolling publicly on Twitter?

 

[Shmunter]

Because it's not "obvious"

For all of PS5s "advantages" we have to think in the abstract or imagine things we don't know exist yet.

We have countless examples of cards losing efficiency the higher the clock, but with PS5 we are supposed to believe the low CU count, and super high clock somehow increases efficiency and removes bottlenecks.

We see how boost clocks work in every other piece of hardware, but with PS5 we have to believe it works differently and the "boost" isn't really a "boost" but a sustainable number except for if the game gets too intensive, then it will automatically throttle, but devs can optimize specifically for power to control the throttling to their advantage.

SSDs have been in use forever, and we can see their benefits. But since PS5s is the fastest we are supposed to believe "PS5 can do things nothing else can touch" but we have no idea what those things are, or why a slower SSD could not do those things.

None of this is "obvious" or simple.

PS5 could be magical hardware that defies everything we thought we knew about gaming hardware, but Sony is gonna have to prove that. You can't expect people to believe it just cause they said it

It's obvious to me. And I don't give a flying f about boost, or Cu counts, or voltages, it's all just noise. In practice these differences will be non-noteworthy under any reasonable person test.

I'm talking about feeding ram being the real game changer, at unprecedented speeds. Data is the lifeblood of the virtual worlds we see in front of us, and this is where genuine geek excitement is to be had.

Some have the clarity of vision to see it for what it is, others will need to wait for practical examples. Truth is, it's a fairly simple concept.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Can you back this statement up? Or is it the same fake shit you have been spreading here in this thread?

So you're trawling my Twitter for posts that have no bearing on the quote on Gaf you posted, for... what reason?

I don't even understand the point of your post? My twitter feed has nothing to do with anything other than whatever I deem it to. It was in reply to a bunch of other posts spewing SSD saviour rubbish.

You really are reaching here. What does that twitter post have to do with the accusation that I've been asking people on Gaf to harass and bully insiders here?

 

[CJY]

Can you back this statement up? Or is it the same fake shit you have been spreading here in this thread?

lmfao #corvid19. I'm guessing this bloke is British, Irish background possibly. Village idiot.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

What the hell is that? Trolling publicly on Twitter?

I have no idea, man. But here is the original source:

 

[Gavin Stevens]

lmfao #corvid19. I'm guessing this bloke is British, Irish background possibly. Village idiot.

It's the trending hashtag for a pandemic and worked for the bit. What did you want me to use? Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiids?

Nice totally off topic insult by the way that has no bearing on the subject.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I have no idea, man. But here is the original source:

You're taking my twitter feed very personally.

Please, continue searching and detailing the thread. In amongst the several hundred tweets aimed at my governments shitty handing of things, theres all sorts.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

So you're trawling my Twitter for posts that have no bearing on the quote on Gaf you posted, for... what reason?

I don't even understand the point of your post? My twitter feed has nothing to do with anything other than whatever I deem it to. It was in reply to a bunch of other posts spewing SSD saviour rubbish.

You really are reaching here. What does that twitter post have to do with the accusation that I've been asking people on Gaf to harass and bully insiders here?

You are asking to another user if he can back his statements. I am asking you if you can back yours? Easy to understand.

 

[Imtjnotu]

T

Yup....bandwidth reduces for both systems, the difference is that Ps5 will access its CPU and sound and other non GPU data at the same 448 speed, and hence it takes up less time away from the GPU needs.

Lady Gaia explains it nicely, assumes typical CPU bandwidth requirement of 48 GBs and in constant use in the slower access RAM, as thats the way code runs, CPU runs code, GPU displays what its told..

Funnily enough, taking the CPU access out, it leaves 39 GBs GPU access per TF for both......strange that......I am sure MS and SONY know what they are doing, and that is not a coincidence. But it could also be a leveller for both systems on big asset games....

Both are equally bandwidth limited and RAM limited IMO. Maybe one of them will slash out and upgrade as a last minute move, Sony with 16 gbps or MS with more RAM. to feed the wider bus properly...

Both Sony and MS have chosen compromises based on RAM costs. Both are not ideal.

Here are some jn here saying they both can do it at the same time for the full 560....ehich ms said isn't a possibility. But who knows

 

[CJY]

It's the trending hashtag for a pandemic and worked for the bit. What did you want me to use? Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiids?

Nice totally off topic insult by the way that has no bearing on the subject.

what kind of stupid tag is #corvid19? I thought the virus was called covid-19? Only British people would accidentally throw in an "r" there. Calling you British isn't the insult btw. It's that you're an idiot.

Don't mind me too much anyway, I've disliked your posts and your views for a long time. Couldn't resist getting a dig in.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I have no idea, man. But here is the original source:

Strange times where indie devs are taking stances on console war...

 

[Gavin Stevens]

You are asking to another user if he can back his statements. I am asking you if you can back your? Easy of understand.

Back my statement about the ps5 curing cancer...? A joke...?

Over somebody else who has publicly said I've gone about asking other users to openly insult and target other insiders?

You know the two and not even remotely the same right...?

what kind of stupid tag is #corvid19? I thought the virus was called covid-19? Only British people would accidentally throw in an "r" there. Calling you British isn't the insult btw. It's that you're an idiot.

Don't mind me too much anyway, I've disliked your posts and your views for a long time. Couldn't resist getting a dig in.

Not going to lie mate, I never even fucking saw it was the wrong hashtag that's how little it bothered me.

Somebody PM me when he answers my question about where I've asked others to bully insiders. For now, I'm backing away from you toxic stalker types and letting you get on with it

 

[Neo Blaster]

Is it a tech dive? What are the odds of them clearing up the ram configuration?

It's destined for gamers, so expect a lot of PR stuff.