Shmunter
Member
Finished this dark and moody game on PS4 PRO. Can't say differences are obvious in this video apart from the seemingly locked 60fps. But it is just a port.
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Finished this dark and moody game on PS4 PRO. Can't say differences are obvious in this video apart from the seemingly locked 60fps. But it is just a port.
Radical_3d
Member
The marketing team in Sony are spending the lockdown high. There is no other explanation for this to be the first ever frame rendered in a PS5 to be shown in public.
Tetragrammaton_Knight
perm reply ban warning for FUD in nextGen
Compared trailer footage to original game and changes are quite significant, but I wouldn't call it a next-gen. The problem is that original game had pretty average graphics for current gen, it was well done from design standpoint and conveyed the atmosphere well, but it had nothing on top AAA level games.
This System Redux could have very well been a current-gen game if they had more resources to optimize.
ethomaz
Banned
Somebody said Xbox uses bigger and faster NAND modules because it needs more NAND to reach 1TB compared with 825GB fo PS5.
PS5 NAND modules are small and slower... it reaches high speeds due 12 lanes.
PS5 uses 12 x 512Gb modules.
MS is probably using 8 x 1Tb modules or 4 x 2Tb modules (this last option is not available for mass production yet I believe the first one is right).
6 modules doesn't match 1TB btw.
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Rusco Da Vino
Member
First of all, it is false that it is the first footage of the PS5.
Second, it looks like much better than the last thing we have seen for the XSX
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DrKeo
Member
If XSX uses 8x1Tb modules, it means PS5 is faster per channel even before we take into account it having 12 channels.
Metroiddarks
Member
First of all, it false it is the first footage of the PS5.
Second, it looks like much better the last thing we have seen for the XSX
Also please don't judge the graphics of the new gen for a game of an indie or little studio for two reasons:
-Is incredible expensive and laborious to make a game with high end graphics
-An small indie or not known in the industry at least will not have access so early to a dev kit for any console (XSX and PS5)
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BluRayHiDef
Banned
Do you think that the PS5's SSD will produce a lot of heat due to its high data transfer rate? Also, are SSDs typically able to maintain their maximum speed for long hours?
SportsFan581
Member
Would be a massive oversight if they overlooked something like that. I'm sure they have SSD cooling handled. Will be interesting to see how they handle cooling the expansion bay.
DrKeo
Member
I don't know. SSDs need a good heat sink in order to not throttle, MS's solution was to go with a slower transfer rate so their SSD is pretty slow for a PCIe 4.0 NVMe but it's steady. Because we don't know how Sony's cooling solution looks like and Cerny didn't talk about it, even though it's a very common problem with SSDs, we can't really tell if it throttles or not.
The most suspicious thing is the external SSD tray. If Sony is allowing an external NVMe to be installed and Cerny implied that it can't have a big heat sink or a fan, I wonder what kind of SSD they will certify that can go there and not throttle at all. In my book it's still up in the air, we will just have to wait and see.
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Rusco Da Vino
Member
-Ask the indie developer where is the video he promised to do (3 weeks ago) about the PS5 bottleneck.
Still waiting.
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3liteDragon
Member
What do you guys think?
44alltheway
Member
Microsoft as a company has always had a lot more money than Sony. Why haven't they used it yet to take most of the market share from Sony?
Metroiddarks
Member
Yeah I am agree with you in that remember (that guy has a problem).-Ask the indie developer where is the video he promised to do (3 weeks ago) about the PS5 bottleneck.
Still waiting
But I was talking about in general.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
What if...the PlayStation 5 has a water-cooling solution?
BluRayHiDef
Banned
So, with a good heat sink, an SSD can operate for hours at its top speed? What effect does this have on its longevity?
3liteDragon
Member
This was my thought too, all this "Oh Microsoft has a lot more money" talk didn't work for them in 2013 either, it's the games that do the talking for the entire generation.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Shmunter
Member
Nothing wrong with his thinking
AGRacing
Member
I wonder if this is a Sony "extreme arrogance console cycle" or they have the greatest launch lineup of all time ready to go. I know I'll eventually own a PS5.... but if the Xbox Series X did launch cheaper I can't see why I wouldn't buy it first and perhaps run with it solo for a substantially long time. A MIND BLOWING Horizon sequel at launch might change my mind.... and I'm talking photorealistic levels of mind blowing ...
And , as always, full backward compatibility with all previous PlayStations. That one would be the equivalent of at least taking me to dinner before walking me down the alley.
And , as always, full backward compatibility with all previous PlayStations. That one would be the equivalent of at least taking me to dinner before walking me down the alley.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Selling the console at $499 or $549.99 wouldn't be an act of arrogance but of financial security. According to the report, Sony has to sell the console in this price range in order to either break even or make a profit; they don't want to sell at a loss as they did with the PS3. They were able to sell the PS4 at a profitable price from its launch date and naturally want to do so with the PS5. They are not a charity; they are a business.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
There's actually quite a bit that is wrong. Microsoft has never positioned their consoles to take incredibly massive losses. The cost of these consoles at the end of the day have the same constraints. Just because MS is worth over a trillion and Sony is less than a tenth of that, doesn't mean MS has more of an ability to swing for the fence and lose billions on the project. Sony actually has done that in the past, because Playstation represents far more to their bottom line than Xbox does to Microsoft.
These companies still have to answer to shareholders. I suspect that Microsoft's pricing depends entirely on whether or not Lockhart exists. If Lockhart releases, then I expect that one to take a loss to reach a mainstream price. In this scenario, the XSX will need to hedge against that loss by being sold at a profit.
In the end it's a balancing act and if Microsoft is extremely aggressive on pricing there's no way Sony doesn't match. And if Microsoft is extremely aggressive on supply, then Sony will also increase supply (though, let's take into account that Sony has a smaller APU and will be able to build more PS5s as a result). I don't really take Bloomberg's article at 100% face value. It seems more like normal shareholder worries about the looming recession impacting demand than anything else.
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Metroiddarks
Member
This guy really needs Xbox sells more. If I remember 7 years ago he said the 720 looks exactly as 1080p or not ? because the difference between
xbox one and ps4 was big.
Also since when a company is immune to a pandemic ?
And also the position in sales still favorable to Sony not Xbox, so is no like Sony need to promise to sell a quantity unrealistic to have a good price in
other side is Microsoft which needs to promise that just even reach quantity of parts like Sony.
The people who think MIcrosoft will lost money in almost each aspect of their console have a problem, they probably lose money in:
-In the console
-Financing studios which its games will be first day in a cheap service
-In the Gamepass, because is hard to believe is so cheap, even cheaper than netflix when the requirement in servers are a lot more
-Making some of the biggest events compare to the others 2 console makers and you still in last place
-Helping companies like CDProject for marketing even all us know the main economic beneficiaries will be Steam and Sony just look the numbers of TW3
The companies like MIcrosoft doesn't work in the way many people think using the 100% of all its money for an small sector, each section of the company has a budget and
you cannot just ask for more each time if you don't return something more valuable.
Is probably Phil promise to board of directors and CEO X quantity of money in a Y period of time, so if they don't accomplish that well you remember Nokia... I don't
think they reach those extremes but its budget will pay the consequences.
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LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
This would be utterly foolish for MS to do unless they have some killer exclusives that wont be getting a Windows release.
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ethomaz
Banned
Wut?
I think you missing something here the 5.5GB/s is not the speed of the channels but the speed between the SSD and the I/O controller.
The rumors says that MS SSD is using faster NAND than needed between SSD and I/O controller (2.4GB/s).
Said that MS SSD can have 4 or 8 lanes but the number of modules is mostly like 8 x 1Tb.
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Shmunter
Member
Fair enough
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Sony hasn't announced any games in ages, so it's likely that they have a huge lineup coming up for PS5 to hit the ground running
numerous studios are due for releases in the first 1-2 years (GG, Insomniac, bluepoint, SSM)
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Well, Marvel's Spider-Man was released nineteen months ago (September 2018). So, perhaps Insomniac will have completed development of most of the game's sequel by the PS5's launch and could possibly release it by Spring of 2021. Hence, they should surely have some gameplay footage ready by the time that Sony decides to unveil the PlayStation 5 and demonstrate it running games. That would blow the socks off anything that Microsoft has done and can do in regard to the XSX's marketing.
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James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Insomniac is a huge studio with two teams. Expect a Ratchet game early on, and a new Spiderman in Fall 2021 or Spring/Summer/Fall 2022.
These studios have all had over two years (or close to two years) to work on a new project. That's a lot of time.
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Metroiddarks
Member
Yes I am agree also its new game will be a great way to see how much the ridiculous fast SSD can affect a game, so works as tech demo and a console seller.
ArcaneNLSC
Member
First of all, it false it is the first footage of the PS5.
Second, it looks like much better the last thing we have seen for the XSX
AGRacing
Member
Yeah if they existed in a vacuum you'd be right.... but they exist in a competitive market co-occupied by fricken' Microsoft. I don't know if you've noticed but they seem a bit more ready for action this time vs the launch of the Xbox One. All of these decisions need to be made with competition in mind or you'll fall flat on your face just like they did in 2013. I'd love the head of Sony proclaiming they are "not a charity" when Microsoft sells a faster machine for the same or less money. I'm not contributing to a charity either. My money will go to who offers me more for it. Sony better show up.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
My problem with series X, is they seem to have said that all games will be coming to pc for the first 2 years. This year you can likely buy a rtx 3070 with 2080ti like performance for under 500$. If they had exclusives it'd be one thing, but without them...
icy121
Member
On the surface - you can tell he has a dog in the race. When IGN conducted this poll - you could tell by his facial expression that he was bothered by the result.
When the DualSense got announced he posted something on Twitter and quickly deleted it - does anyone happen to know what he said?
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ethomaz
Banned
Fanboy gone be fanboy.
IGN was better balanced until the PS Fanboy left now it just Xbox fanboy making sad faces every time he see a PS5 related news being hyped to heavens.
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Delusional.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
Agree. It is a fanboy.
But think that this guy is exposing himself a lot with that wild speculation on twitter.
It is hard to imagine why an IGN journalist would burn his credibility like that without legit info (via Phil Spencer).
There is something fishy here.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Because MS cared jack crap about the Xbox division prior, particularly with OG Xbox and especially with XBO.
They managed to put more weight with their money behind the division in the 360 era and that worked out well for them. Thankfully seems like they care about the division again with XSX, so they aught to avoid the idiotic problems the XBO did this gen.
Okay so what are you trying to say here? If the NAND modules aren't providing 5.5 GB/s in parallel, then the 5.5 GB/s figure would be the controller's max throughput. The interconnect between the controller and SSD would be 3x PCIe 4.0 lanes, for 6 GB/s (not accounting for overhead, which is very minuscule thanks to 128B/130B encoding)
If that's the case this is why I said a while ago that being given bandwidth figures would've been preferable. We know the PS5's flash memory controller has 12 channels. However, we also know the PS5 can support an expansion NVMe drive in the expansion port, simultaneously (not as a replacement for internal). However, I doubt it can run both internal and expansion drives at 5.5 GB/s, so is the channel set-up split as 6 channels to the internal and 6 to the expansion, or is there a mux/demux setup to alternate between the two drives for access?
If you're saying the PS5's NAND per module is slower than XSX's, and XSX is using eight modules, then do you think XSX's 2.4 GB/s speed is the actual speed or the speed & bandwidth figure? Because the controller itself is either spec'd to 4.8 GB/s or they have two controllers (the 2nd for the expansion card), or they have some mux/demux setup for the internal and external though in their case that doesn't sound to be the setup. If you think the 2.4 GB/s is just referring to the speed, then the bandwidth per NAND module on XSX would be lower than the 600 MB/s needed to fulfill 2.4 GB/s being the speed and bandwidth figure. It'd also mean that whatever you think the XSX's NAND modules are at speed-wise, already puts PS5's NAND modules lower than that.
And, that still also has to account for if the 12-channel setup in PS5 is for one drive or two drives, getting split half between them. Which also affects the bandwidth of the NAND, whether if the speed also accounts for the bandwidth or if the two are different figures. Is the 2.4 GB/s spec for XSX's drive the interconnect speed? Because that would need 2x PCIe 4.0 lanes, but that gives up 1.6 GB/s of speed which is massive and would be an unusual design oversight.
See, this is why it's actually too early to state anything definitive with the SSDs yet. You just opened a can of worms (or to say, intrigued me to open a can of worms) by speculating PS5's SSD's NAND is slower, and XSX is using 8 modules. Which to be fair is your own speculation, but it also raises a ton of questions that can't actually be answered at this time, too. IMO.
You are looking at, maybe 5% of all PC gamers who are going to be able to afford those cards, and I'm being generous with that figure. The number of PC gamers rocking god-tier rigs is insanely small. AMD and Nvidia don't make their cards for just PC gamers, either, so that is important to keep in mind when wondering why they iterate on the cards so often.
I took Booty's comment as being effective from Fall/Winter 2019 (the comment itself was made at E3 2019) to Fall/Winter 2021. Or, XSX's first year. Which is actually very typical in terms of cross-gen support going by even the current generation, that includes quite a lot of 3rd parties.
Exclusives don't necessarily mean much if they aren't good. It took PS4 until Bloodborne to really find footing with its exclusives, and I'd say Uncharted 4 kicked things into high gear. When you look back, PS4 didn't have any genuinely good exclusives in 2013, had one good exclusive (Infamous 2nd Son) in 2014, one great exclusive (Bloodborn) in 2015 (and at least one stinking in Order 1886), one great exclusive (Uncharted 4) in 2016, and THEN came the epoch of consistent great exclusives in 2017 and 2018, drying up again in 2019 (with the flawed Days Gone), and looking to top out in 2020 with two big ones (Tsushima and TLOU2).
And yes I'm only counting 1st-party exclusives, but the point stands, the PS4 had mostly okay years and a couple relative dud years for 1st-party exclusives. The big years came starting 4 years after the system came out. So the idea they had fire 1st-party exclusives right out of the gate, is false.
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ethomaz
Banned
I have no ideia what are you trying to say to be fair.
It is pretty simple there is an article with a report saying new Xbox uses NAND modules bigger and faster than PS5's NAND modules... the article says the specs of these NAND modules are better than the actual 2.4GB/s between SSD and I/O controller.
The key point is that Sony choose 12 lanes to reach the sped they want using slower and smaller NAND modules (12 x 512Gb).
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Radical_3d
Member
First of all, it is false that it is the first footage of the PS5.
Second, it looks like much better than the last thing we have seen for the XSX
Why is it false?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
12 512 GB modules give 768 GB, not 825 GB tho. And again, 12 modules would be 458.3 MB/s each, if speed and bandwidth are the same figure.
Or maybe I should say, from the sounds of it, each channel is 458.3 MB/s, since they are set in parallel. But from what you are saying, each NAND module is slower than that. For example let's say they are 384 MB/s, or 4.6 GB/s across all 12 in parallel. The channels are going to be limited by the NAND module speed, they can't draw data faster than the module itself is configured at silicon level to provide.
If that is the case (and 384 MB/s is a fairer case; the modules could be slower since even 384 MB/s modules are a tad pricey), then the 5.5 GB/s speed spec doesn't actually mean that much. It'd reflect the channel speed in parallel, but the modules aren't providing enough bandwidth to match that rate, and it would make more sense to go by the module rate in parallel.
And if the idea is the XSX's NAND is faster but they are going with less, then the NAND bandwidth in parallel there would actually be quite faster than what the channels can support, by several hundred megabytes, either suggesting they scaled back on the controller or channels, or they are considering changing/upgrading the controller. Or, it's a potentially questionable oversight.
Or if the XSX's NAND is ridiculously overspeced for what the controller can handle, then if the article you reference holds true, PS5's NAND is much slower than expected, and is going to deliver much less than 5.5 GB/s in parallel in practice because, again, the channels can't draw more than what the chips can provide per access/second, from what I'm to understand. But that doesn't sound to be the case from what Cerny said in his presentation.
sircaw
Banned
The reason they are showing this now is that Sony have so many great next gen titles packed into the ps5 reveal that they don't have any space for it.
That's an explanation.
Peace xx
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I think he's pointing out to now having the proper backing of the CEO and CFO which they might not have had in 2013.
Neo_game
Member
I think both console are going to be same price. 400$ is a wishful thinking for either of them. There is no way Nadella is going to take billion $ loss but undercutting PS5 price. Even if someone is hardcore fan it is not logical thing to do. Moreover if they are going to release another cheaper console ? It makes no sense to under PS5. If they really want to win I think they have to make the best games. Their games have fallen back this gen expect the Horizon series.
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Rusco Da Vino
Member
Because the first footage of PS5 is not what you have posted, Observer System Redux, but this one:
And if you want to look deeper into the topic, this one:
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hardseppo
Member
First PS5 footage was Godfall. Released at Game Awards 2019.
Cobenzl
Member
I reckon they're being quiet on PS5 until Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 are out, in order to maximise PS4 sales for both.
Radical_3d
Member
This reads like fanfic. You can't make a Apple-sized launch if not even Apple can't escape the consequences of the Coronavirus. Even if you do, because the situation is better by summer, all Sony has to do is revamp the units produced from one month to another.
What I find more realistic is the XSX being cheaper. PS5 is only cheaper in the SOC, but their cooling solution must be better since they are aiming for more GHz and their storage is custom and more expensive. I think those two factors combined could surpass the cost of a bigger SoC.
The dev said it was running on an old PC build.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They have similar backing and similar lack of bottomless credit line from them for R&D. Else you would have seen more RAM, all RAM at the same faster speed, more expensive cooling and the highest CPU clocks without having to turn SMT off, etc...
In the interview he did with Phil, he acted like a forum fanboy and constantly tried to get Phil to talk smack as if he were in an Xbox power king meme thread and embarrassed himself, Phil just would not step down to his level and I respect Phil much more after that exchange.
Ryan has zero unbiased "journalistic" credentials.
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