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[xacto]

I don't doubt Lockart will be less expensive to manufacture. I only take issue with the idea of XSX subsidizing lockart
A system that sells a fraction of the other can't possibly subsidize it. It has to be the other way around

Indeed so. But people throwing around prices, and BOM's and hardware components are the ones who are really into this thing, while the average mom and dad on the street will have no idea why this less expensive console isn't the best for their kids at home, right? I mean, look at the price!

Because let's be honest, a grown up who is in the control of their own finances and who wants the best of this console generation, will most likely buy the more powerful console; but little Timmy back home will probably have a pretty hard time, trying to convince his parents to buy him a newer console which, come on... will do pretty much the same thing as the old one. Which probably still works just fine, and it's already in Microsoft's ecosystem. So... can you explain that to your parents, Timmy?

I have no idea how Microsoft will market this console, and I am also not sure how many units they hope to move, but it will be interesting.

 

[ZywyPL]

PS5 has more than 16GB.
They have 'a large pool' of SRAM stored in the I/O unit.

On a side note - if Cerny's graph is anything to go with, the I/O complex is twice as big as CPU and GPU combined, yet some believe it will be 399$ just because it has just 36CU, just show how clueless some folks here are (yet are the ones who who take most part in the discussions).

And this is risky as well. Not including a drive in a version of your console usually ends up in being bullied by the retailers, which it threatens.

That's actually the smartest move with Lockhart - people would jump on in due to low price, but then would have no other choice but to buy everything through XBL stor - no second hand market, no physical copies, no stores, nothing in-between, just pure profit for MS.

 

[Corndog]

Seems like they were pretty wrong about the PS5. Plus they got the SSD speed wrong for the X. It's why I have some doubts over that leak.

Thanks for the clarification.

You can't get that much right by guessing.

 

[Brudda26]

You can't get that much right by guessing.

Throw enough shit at the wall and some of it is bound to stick

 

[Deleted member 775630]

if ms wants Lockhart to replace x1x then it needs to be at least 25%. Rdna is 25% more powerful per flop than polaris gcn which gets us to 5 tflops. You will need another 20% to get to 6 tflops so it can run x1x games at the same settings.

It's 25% from GCN => RDNA1, and 50% from RDNA1 => RDNA2 (source)?
So it's 4 => 5 => 7.5

 

[3liteDragon]

Alright I'm fucking done, some asshole decided to upload footage from the game (TLOU2) and leaked the deaths, multiplayer stuff and it's ending as well. And I accidentally just saw a screenshot of one of the most brutal deaths in a game which I REALLY wish I didn't see, the PR for this game has been absolutely terrible. I'm expecting an imminent announcement from Sony this week or next week regarding a release date for this game, and I'm hoping to god they just do an early digital fucking release already. Seriously, this has gotten way out of hand.

On the other hand, the graphics look INCREDIBLE, legit looks like an interactive movie.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Microsoft is doing it also not a big deal. AMD probably had a hardware customization for BC that Microsoft and Sony tuned to their needs.

Both methods are still very different. Microsoft took all their software BC work and tweaks for Xbox One and that was used for Xbox One X and pretty much built it all right into Xbox Series X's hardware, making it no longer a software solution. And this time around older xbox One games will benefit from the full CPU and GPU power of Xbox Series X. Xbox One X used 50 percent of its overall GPU power for backwards compatibility.

So on Xbox Series X 100% of games will work and they will run better. On the PS5 side of things that isn't a guarantee for 100% of their titles because Microsoft's form of BC and Sony's are different from the start. They may both be in hardware now, but they're still very much no the same. Even Mark Cerny suggested there would be challenges due to especially the PS5's boost. And for some talking about the mystery of what Sony did for BC, Cerny said it. They spent transistors on incorporating the logic from the hardware in the PS4 and the PS4 Pro, the parts that would be missing from PS5 with its new architecture, into the PS5, and this is how they achieve hardware BC.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's 25% from GCN => RDNA1, and 50% from RDNA1 => RDNA2 (source)?
So it's 4 => 5 => 7.5

We don't know the ipc gains rdna 2 will bring. that's what we are discussing here..

The 50% is the perf per watt figure which is different from ipc instructions/performance per clock.

 

[Corndog]

Could be im 50/50 on it being a place holder or fake
Point is github isn't proof of Sony ramping up the clocks to the sky as a reactionary measure to MS to be "more competitive"

and architecture

GitHub isn't proof but it is evidence. I don't think it is conclusive without additional evidence. If someone revealed the devkit speeds for that time period and they match then I think I would lean toward the current speed as being reactionary.

 

[Kusarigama]

Both methods are still very different. Microsoft took all their software BC work and tweaks for Xbox One and that was used for Xbox One X and pretty much built it all right into Xbox Series X's hardware, making it no longer a software solution. And this time around older xbox One games will benefit from the full CPU and GPU power of Xbox Series X. Xbox One X used 50 percent of its overall GPU power for backwards compatibility.

So on Xbox Series X 100% of games will work and they will run better. On the PS5 side of things that isn't a guarantee for 100% of their titles because Microsoft's form of BC and Sony's are different from the start. They may both be in hardware now, but they're still very much no the same. Even Mark Cerny suggested there would be challenges due to especially the PS5's boost. And for some talking about the mystery of what Sony did for BC, Cerny said it. They spent transistors on incorporating the logic from the hardware in the PS4 and the PS4 Pro, the parts that would be missing from PS5 with its new architecture, into the PS5, and this is how they achieve hardware BC.

MS isn't saying all games will work but you are. You know more than MS about XSX?

 

[Corndog]

On a side note - if Cerny's graph is anything to go with, the I/O complex is twice as big as CPU and GPU combined, yet some believe it will be 399$ just because it has just 36CU, just show how clueless some folks here are (yet are the ones who who take most part in the discussions).




That's actually the smartest move with Lockhart - people would jump on in due to low price, but then would have no other choice but to buy everything through XBL stor - no second hand market, no physical copies, no stores, nothing in-between, just pure profit for MS.

The extra ram for io is just that. It isn't system ram. I believe it is a cache to improve data flow. Just like all hard drives have.

 

[HarryKS]

Both methods are still very different. Microsoft took all their software BC work and tweaks for Xbox One and that was used for Xbox One X and pretty much built it all right into Xbox Series X's hardware, making it no longer a software solution. And this time around older xbox One games will benefit from the full CPU and GPU power of Xbox Series X. Xbox One X used 50 percent of its overall GPU power for backwards compatibility.

So on Xbox Series X 100% of games will work and they will run better. On the PS5 side of things that isn't a guarantee for 100% of their titles because Microsoft's form of BC and Sony's are different from the start. They may both be in hardware now, but they're still very much no the same. Even Mark Cerny suggested there would be challenges due to especially the PS5's boost. And for some talking about the mystery of what Sony did for BC, Cerny said it. They spent transistors on incorporating the logic from the hardware in the PS4 and the PS4 Pro, the parts that would be missing from PS5 with its new architecture, into the PS5, and this is how they achieve hardware BC.

Incorrect on almost if not every count about BC.

 

[Corndog]

Throw enough shit at the wall and some of it is bound to stick

Really? Ok you try it. Tell me what speed the cpu is in my computer and the core count. I will give you 1 guess.

 

[geordiemp]

We don't know the ipc gains rdna 2 will bring. that's what we are discussing here..

The 50% is the perf per watt figure which is different from ipc instructions/performance per clock.

It is quite clear that AMD only listed Perf / watt, there maybe IPC and efficiency gaines over GCN but AMD did not list any. They said perf / watt improved by 25 % over RDNA1.

So If we take the AMD information at face value, then if we assume RDNA 1 starts to give less actual performance when above 1.8 Ghz, then for RDNA 2 that would be 1.8 x 1.25 = 2.25 GHz.

If you watch Cerny presentation he says something around they had to limit GPU to 2.23 Ghz as there was a limit on speed of logic on performance.

So all we can read into that is above 2.25 Ghz or so RDNA2 clocks can be higher but performance stalls / lows or stops being a benefit.

It also suggests AMD must of done something with logic and speed improvement over RDNA1 (as I doubt Cerny would just clock it higher to combat Timdog, good engineers are not that stupid).

 

[mitchman]

I am not stating any facts in my post, I am asking a question. I want to hear what experts like you think. How does it work? How hardware with one instruction set is going to execute a different instruction set? I find it mysterious and quite fascinating.

The shader language and instructions are largely the same, and keeping support for the GCN subset for backwards compatible purposes it's not rocket science. Were you referring to something else? CPU instructions are certainly also present in Zen 2.

 

[pasterpl]

Third Person PD...

please no

 

[Captain Hero]

You know I have a feeling that MS will put a price number we wouldn't guess and it will be much lower than PS5 price ..

Maybe a $90 deference

 

[jackets with pockets]

Not sure what Dictator is going on about, but next-gen will undoubtedly alleviate most of the problems he talks about.

Alexander Battaglia knows a lot about game technology (graphics technology in particular) but, to my knowledge, is not nor has been a game developer.

I enjoy his Digital Foundry videos a lot but he is not some oracle that deserves blind trust.

 

[Nickolaidas]

You know I have a feeling that MS will put a price number we wouldn't guess and it will be much lower than PS5 price ..

Maybe a $90 deference

They can charge it a dollar for all I care. If I had to choose between one ecosystem, I would pick Sony's in a heartbeat, unless they seriously fuck up their gaming library, which I personally doubt.

But yeah, other people *will* see it as an incentive to prefer it over the PS5.

 

[pasterpl]

Xbox video: We just can't stop gazing at this jaw-dropping new Xbox console

Say hello to Xbox Project Oris in this stunning new video

www.t3.com

 

[geordiemp]

You know I have a feeling that MS will put a price number we wouldn't guess and it will be much lower than PS5 price ..

Maybe a $90 deference

XSX will cost more than Ps5 for sure, RDNA2 is more expensive silicon and we have no prices for it yet, all market analysis are doing is using old die prices or guessing. I bet the 50 % per watt is not an extra dollar or 2 !

So BOM estimates are guestimates. and depending on RDNA2 prices that will tell us the differential COST between Lockart to Ps5 to XSX.

All that is special about Ps5 SSD is the 12 lanes, it uses bog standard cheap SSD memory so much of a muchness differences.

Selling prices its up to Sony and MS, they can each eat what they like, and even final selling price does not matter as each of them can decide to include a free game or 2 to make up any difference anyway if needed.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Incorrect on almost if not every count about BC.

The Series X's BC and PS5's are not the same, full stop. You trying to imply they are is laughable at best, same goes for the other guy.

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …

www.eurogamer.net

Wrong on every point? Sounds like you need to read more.

beyond that, the Xbox back-compat team have been hard at work since drawing the line under their Xbox 360 and X-enhanced program a while back. It likely comes as no surprise to discover that Series X can technically run the entire Xbox One catalogue, but this time it's done with no emulation layer - it's baked in at the hardware level. Games also benefit from the full CPU and GPU clocks of Series X (Xbox One X effectively delivered 50 per cent of its overall graphics power for back-compat), meaning that the more lacklustre of those performance modes added to many Xbox One X games should hopefully lock to a silky smooth 60fps.

So I'm wrong on EVERY point? If you're going to driveby troll do it a little better than that.

Also, to the other post trying to make it appear as if Sony and Microsoft's BC situation will be the same when Xbox is guaranteeing thousands of titles, and I can bet that every game currently backwards compatible on xbox one will, even if not right away, definitely work on Xbox Series X. On the PS5 side of things they first talked about the top 100, and then they basically walked it back somewhat to say that they actually meant more than that. The BC situation on the PS5 is a whole lot more up in the air in terms of total and complete game compatibility than is the case for Xbox Series X, and anyone with an honest bone in their body knows this.

 

[Shmunter]

Alright I'm fucking done, some asshole decided to upload footage from the game (TLOU2) and leaked the deaths, multiplayer stuff and it's ending as well. And I accidentally just saw a screenshot of one of the most brutal deaths in a game which I REALLY wish I didn't see, the PR for this game has been absolutely terrible. I'm expecting an imminent announcement from Sony this week or next week regarding a release date for this game, and I'm hoping to god they just do an early digital fucking release already. Seriously, this has gotten way out of hand.

On the other hand, the graphics look INCREDIBLE, legit looks like an interactive movie.

Multiplayer? It was to launch without I recall?

 

[John254]

MS isn't saying all games will work but you are. You know more than MS about XSX?

Well. Nobody expect Kinect games to have backwards compatibility. So the can't say all games because that will spell trouble because of "false marketing"

 

[FranXico]

Well. Nobody expect Kinect games to have backwards compatibility. So the can't say all games because that will spell trouble because of "false marketing"

Misleading marketing only is an issue when Sony does it. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[Shmunter]

XSX will cost more than Ps5 for sure, RDNA2 is more expensive silicon and we have no prices for it yet, all market analysis are doing is using old die prices or guessing. I bet the 50 % per watt is not an extra dollar or 2 !

So BOM estimates are guestimates. and depending on RDNA2 prices that will tell us the differential COST between Lockart to Ps5 to XSX.

All that is special about Ps5 SSD is the 12 lanes, it uses bog standard cheap SSD memory so much of a muchness differences.

Selling prices its up to Sony and MS, they can each eat what they like, and even final selling price does not matter as each of them can decide to include a free game or 2 to make up any difference anyway if needed.

Perhaps. But Sony may be trying for a more premium piece of electronic and it all adds up.

There are talks of a premium cooling solution, a small quiet console can't be cheap compared to the slab of tree trunk that is XsX. A controller with new tech vs a rebadged xb one controller. Extra silicone for tempest and geometry engine adding to it also.

PS5 may retail at XsX price, but I do wonder if it's a more expensive piece of kit to produce.

 

[John254]

Misleading marketing only is an issue when Sony does it. Didn't you get the memo?

I expect full backwards compatibility with XOne games except Kinect games and backwards compatibility with all X360/Xbox games that are currently backwards compatible with Xbox One. For me it is "all games" because nobody cares about Kinect anymore, but I understand they can't say it because legal reasons...

 

[FranXico]

I expect full backwards compatibility with XOne games except Kinect games and backwards compatibility with all X360/Xbox games that are currently backwards compatible with Xbox One. For me it is "all games" because nobody cares about Kinect anymore, but I understand they can't say it because legal reasons...

The quoted tweet says they can't guarantee that without testing. The vast majority of games will work, but there is always a risk that a few might not. That's just how BC works.

 

[3liteDragon]

Multiplayer? It was to launch without I recall?

Yea, multiplayer's gonna be it's own thing which will be released a bit after the game comes out. But this guy leaked gameplay from multiplayer as well.

 

[John254]

The quoted tweet says they can't gurantee that without testing. The vast majority of games will work, but there is always a risk that a few might not. That's just how BC works.

I'm talking about what i'm expecting. Of course everything needs to be tested out, but if they have already "thousands" of games confirmed, more will come. I mean - consoles are coming out in October/November so they have enough time to test everything out.

 

[geordiemp]

Perhaps. But Sony may be trying for a more premium piece of electronic and it all adds up.

There are talks of a premium cooling solution, a small quiet console can't be cheap compared to the slab of tree trunk that is XsX. A controller with new tech vs a rebadged xb one controller. Extra silicone for tempest and geometry engine adding to it also.

PS5 may retail at XsX price, but I do wonder if it's a more expensive piece of kit to produce.

Regarding the cooling solution which Cerny called impressive, it is only impressive if its performance vs cost is good, otherwise its just an expensive cooling solution. I think that patent will come in to play somehow or something novel.

The IO and audio silicon will be minor differential, remember XSX also has IO silicon and audio.

Also one must seperate one off engineering cost vs BOM costs, yes the new controller will have a high engineering cost one off, per item I doubt its significant in BOM. Depends how Sony and MS amortize the R&D costs in general for the whole projects over 100 million units.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Regarding the cooling solution which Cerny called impressive, it is only impressive if its performance vs cost is good, otherwise its just an expensive cooling solution. I think that patent will come in to play somehow or something novel.

The IO and audio silicon will be minor differential, remember XSX also has IO silicon and audio.

Also one must seperate one off engineering cost vs BOM costs, yes the new controller will have a high engineering cost one off, per item I doubt its significant in BOM. Depends how Sony and MS amortize the R&D costs in general for the whole projects over 100 million units.

How is twice as fast minor lmao?

Also "it is only impressive if its performance vs cost is good" is quite a take my boy.

 

[Deeper Underground]

I find it interesting that everyone is assuming that the PS5 is going to be super expensive when Cerny state's several times throughout Road to PS5 that Sony was being price conscious of the system. If you are stating something like that several times, that means you realize that price is a big deal. Sony isn't dumb. They know that $399 was a boon for them during the PS4 launch and already saw what kind of havoc $499 and $599 can cause. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot and try to jack up the price?

On the other side, MS is not going to try and undercut Sony by too much, if at all with XSX. Such a move would screw them in trying to release Lockhart. What sense would it make for MS to price XSX at $399-449 and then price Lockhart at $299? Consumers are going to look at that and scratch their heads.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Alright I'm fucking done, some asshole decided to upload footage from the game (TLOU2) and leaked the deaths, multiplayer stuff and it's ending as well. And I accidentally just saw a screenshot of one of the most brutal deaths in a game which I REALLY wish I didn't see, the PR for this game has been absolutely terrible. I'm expecting an imminent announcement from Sony this week or next week regarding a release date for this game, and I'm hoping to god they just do an early digital fucking release already. Seriously, this has gotten way out of hand.

On the other hand, the graphics look INCREDIBLE, legit looks like an interactive movie.

They can't help that this virus popped up and screwed up everything, it was just bad timing. They were going to have the first public hands on event at a show that was cancelled because of the virus, they also can't send people out for private showings at different publications and they certainly can't bring a bunch of journalists in for a hands on event. This virus is so much bigger than gaming but Sony having what could have been it's biggest game ever scheduled to release during this mess was just awful luck.

 

[geordiemp]

How is twice as fast minor lmao?

Also "it is only impressive if its performance vs cost is good" is quite a take my boy.

Sony have 12 chips (not expensive chips) and reason it is fast is they used 12 lanes. If you mind thinks twice as fast must be twice the price, then I cant help you. It is not a hard concept to get your head around, bigger OPTIMUM bus using low cost chips is the advantage

LMAO - if you think thats funny I do not know why ?

Performance vs cost - do you have any understanding of design engineering ?

A solution is only impressive if it ticks the performance and cost boxes, otherwise its not. Both will use vapour chambers, lets see what is novel about Sonys one.

Also calling me a boy, you sound quite young, a bit like my son asking questions as he studies his A levels or whatever kids call them nowadays.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I find it interesting that everyone is assuming that the PS5 is going to be super expensive when Cerny state's several times throughout Road to PS5 that Sony was being price conscious of the system. If you are stating something like that several times, that means you realize that price is a big deal. Sony isn't dumb. They know that $399 was a boon for them during the PS4 launch and already saw what kind of havoc $499 and $599 can cause. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot and try to jack up the price?

On the other side, MS is not going to try and undercut Sony by too much, if at all with XSX. Such a move would screw them in trying to release Lockhart. What sense would it make for MS to price XSX at $399-449 and then price Lockhart at $299? Consumers are going to look at that and scratch their heads.

I don't get why so many people assume the PS5 will be cheaper than the XSX, they very well could be the same price. It's not like Sony went cheap they just put more money into different parts of the console than MS did. That SSD set up can't be cheap, the extra features added to the controller likely cost a pretty penny, the cooling system is probably not cheap and they are using the same amount of memory it's just slower. I don't see how it would be significantly cheaper overall.

 

[B_Boss]

The quoted tweet says they can't guarantee that without testing. The vast majority of games will work, but there is always a risk that a few might not. That's just how BC works.

Honestly MS' BC message doesn't sound much different from Sony's but perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Dictator.

Alex is a pixel counter who knows jack squat about game development. The detail isn't procedurally generated in real-time.

He can go back to Gears of War cosplay, having a ball in discord and saying "my PS4 is gathering dust" on de videos. Dude is jobber.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I don't care if the entire PS4/X-Box One X library isn't playable at day one, as long as they keep patching it and adding more games every week until it finally is.

 

[Radical_3d]

That's actually the smartest move with Lockhart - people would jump on in due to low price, but then would have no other choice but to buy everything through XBL stor - no second hand market, no physical copies, no stores, nothing in-between, just pure profit for MS.

PSP Go, anyone?

 

[Dodkrake]

I find it super interesting that people seem to think that both the PS5 and the XBSX will "not have some RDNA" features due to the chip being custom. This is moreso coming from the Xbox discord FUD, but at the same time it can be seen from PS5 fanboys as well.

My limited understanding, while reading posts from hardware engineers online, is that it's easier and cheaper to keep the features already present in the die and add upon them (as in custom features and / or RDNA3 tech, for example) than it is to remove said features. It would increase BOM and decrease yields.

Just my 2 cents, please feel free to correct me.

 

[John254]

PSP Go, anyone?

Didn't PSP Go came out in 2009, when Gamestop and other stores was in the height of their power?
I mean, it's 2020 and Gamestop will be bankrupt soon, and I don't think stores like Amazon etc. will have problem selling digital only console because they are also selling vouchers with digital codes.

 

[scie]

PSP Go, anyone?

I don´t know, but at my retail places you can find also digital codes for games. They are just small cards and on the inside is the game code. It is not an uncommen thing.

 

[ZywyPL]

PSP Go, anyone?

PSP GO was released in vastly different times, when digital distribution was just taking off, but now it's the majority of sales, nowadays almost everything is being bought digitally, especially the younger audience doesn't know any other alternative. It's like back in the day people used to wrote letters and now we send emails.

 

[Radical_3d]

PSP GO was released in vastly different times, when digital distribution was just taking off, but now it's the majority of sales, nowadays almost everything is being bought digitally, especially the younger audience doesn't know any other alternative. It's like back in the day people used to wrote letters and now we send emails.

I don´t know, but at my retail places you can find also digital codes for games. They are just small cards and on the inside is the game code. It is not an uncommen thing.

But, what console they recomend to the mothers and grandmas? The diskless Xbox One or any of the others?

Didn't PSP Go came out in 2009, when Gamestop and other stores was in the height of their power?
I mean, it's 2020 and Gamestop will be bankrupt soon, and I don't think stores like Amazon etc. will have problem selling digital only console because they are also selling vouchers with digital codes.

If all retailers but Amazon & co dissapear could be the moment for a diskless console. But that's a big if. Seven years ago this very forum was in flames against digital only.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I find it super interesting that people seem to think that both the PS5 and the XBSX will "not have some RDNA" features due to the chip being custom. This is moreso coming from the Xbox discord FUD, but at the same time it can be seen from PS5 fanboys as well.

My limited understanding, while reading posts from hardware engineers online, is that it's easier and cheaper to keep the features already present in the die and add upon them (as in custom features and / or RDNA3 tech, for example) than it is to remove said features. It would increase BOM and decrease yields.

Just my 2 cents, please feel free to correct me.

Aside from what is cheaper, custom just means custom. I believe that who thinks that can objectevely prove that "custom" means something precise it's simply playing with wishes. All these top-tier engineers and economics expert that can extrapolate technical specs and features from single words should present their CV to corporations, or to the circus.
Overall it's a very sterile discussion, custom means that is customized for the occasion, that's really it. How so, we will see.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

This is all the average user is going to see or care about for next gen ( If they are not already locked to a brand)

XSX- 12.1TF 1TB HD
PS5- 10.2TF 800MB HD

It will be marketed as a 20% advantage in speed and storage. (True or not).

I don't see Sony winning the marketing war unless they have something they have not showed us yet or the XSX is released at some crazy high price because of Lockhart.

PS5 will likely be $399 at most.

 

[Zoro7]

This is all the average user is going to see or care about for next gen ( If they are not already locked to a brand)

XSX- 12.1TF 1TB HD
PS5- 10.2TF 800MB HD

It will be marketed as a 20% advantage in speed and storage. (True or not).

I don't see Sony winning the marketing war unless they have something they have not showed us yet or the XSX is released at some crazy high price because of Lockhart.

PS5 will likely be $399 at most.

The average user has no idea what TF's are.....
The switch sales are a great indication. It's about games my friend and games only.

 

[scie]

But, what console they recomend to the mothers and grandmas? The diskless Xbox One or any of the others?

If all retailers but Amazon & co dissapear could be the moment for a diskless console. But that's a big if. Seven years ago this very forum was in flames against digital only.

I don´t know, but retail space for console games get smaller and smaller every year over the last 7 years and the only games left are pretty huge games like Fifa, COD or other huge budget titels. For smaller titels you have to order them even in stores, because they are not available or just a handfull of copies and therefore a lot of people just order them online or buy them digitaly

 

[Shmunter]

This is all the average user is going to see or care about for next gen ( If they are not already locked to a brand)

XSX- 12.1TF 1TB HD
PS5- 10.2TF 800MB HD

It will be marketed as a 20% advantage in speed and storage. (True or not).

I don't see Sony winning the marketing war unless they have something they have not showed us yet or the XSX is released at some crazy high price because of Lockhart.

PS5 will likely be $399 at most.

Storage size, yes. Agreed it's a factor.

TF however is not going to be a consideration to the average customer, they don't know what it is. Indeed PS5 being instant in everything vs some waiting on XsX will present PS5 as a faster console to the man on the street.

But the biggest hook as it always is, is the brand name and what it represents. If PS5 is $399, the gen would be over before it began with many being able to afford it immediately.