Bo_Hazem
Banned
We will crash and burn in 4k glory at the speed of light
Better die happy than die waiting endlessly to be happy, if you know what I mean.
- Status
Better die happy than die waiting endlessly to be happy, if you know what I mean.
TheAssist
Member
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Keep it simple for me I'm a layman and I presume you don't see it as a silly question like the other poster who comes across clued up.
When did I say that TF is more important than efficiency? If I have always defended efficiency above theoretical power (the numbers used in packaging). Are you talking about me or are you talking about what others have interpreted (good or bad) about my contributions? Because, as far as I know, I have never claimed that PS5 was going to have 13.8TF (neither GCN nor RDNA nor RDNA2). In any case perhaps you mean the 13.8TF that I have always mentioned as a clear joke that I had with some users. Maybe you didn't read those messages. It's possible. With so many messages it is difficult to keep track of these things and be left alone with what the masses interpret. It is much easier to accuse in a short message without first analyzing the original information or even asking me privately to know if you were shitting it or not. But I am sure your intentions were not bad. I forgive you.
Likewise, let us take advantage of the moment to break down the general theme and put each one in her place (so that each one feels alluded to in what she sees fit).
Let's see, the only thing I have stated about PS5 is that it was not 9.2TF. That was over 10TF. And that at one point in time it was more efficient based on the initial DevKits (which over time has been changing to one side and the other to the point that to this day I continue to defend that the final version of PS5 will continue to be more efficient). What does that mean? Well, with less you get more. And that's it.
I have also said good things about XSX (but those are easily forgotten from what I see).
What's wrong with assuming that one product is more revolutionary than another? It's reality. Why not admit it? What do they pay you?
And what is even worse, is that I am not supposed to talk about TFs in a thread called "Speculation / Analysis / Leaks" where all the time TFs are being talked about and little else. Well, no. There is much more, and that is what I have been trying to tell you since I arrived. That you stop the nonsense of the TFs. Everybody.
Another thing is that you like to talk about theoretical equivalences. Where certainly, if you want to talk about theoretical equivalences then ...
9.2 RDNA2 = 11.5 RDNA = 13.8 GCN
10.3 RDNA2 = 12.9 RDNA = 15.5 GCN
(In 3 months they will come saying that I have said that PS5 has + 15TF)
13.8 was a joke (which I said on different occasions, including the first time where I already said it was an EXAMPLE) based on the happy 9.2 that some loved so much. Since you will not expect me to skip the NDA, and less in a public forum.
And yes, for me it is legal to talk about GCN values when all the time you are trying to compare them with PC GPUs and trying to catalog them among the 20xx range. Well, if you want to make numerical equivalences, those exposed would be correct.
What you don't quite understand, and that you have been told a thousand times, is that you CANNOT COMPARE PEARS WITH APPLES. Not seriously. You have every right to do it, but it only serves to pass the time. You cannot compare PCs with Consoles. Never. Unless you do it for fun. Or to try to get an idea of something, but never to affirm anything serious. On PCs and consoles it does not work the same way. They are not exploited in the same way. They are not designed in the same way. They are not personalized in the same way. And they cannot be compared. If you want to do it, you are within your rights, but it is a waste of time.
Now let's go to reality, because talking about theoretical power is fine, but it is pure fantasy everywhere. And what Sony was looking for with PS5 was to make that fantasy come true. That dream". And it has succeeded, it has approached practically perfect efficiency points. Because, excuse me for saying, but did you really believe that the games took advantage of the full potential of your graphics cards? Obviously not, never. Surely it is a reality that some will not be able to bear when the time comes (seen what is seen). But let's be serious. I don't buy a product because of the number it says on the box. I buy a product because of how the games work on it. If you are one of the first, then you are deceived in life. And you know what? That maybe better like this, because that way you will be happier.
But the reality is that this is the theoretical reality. You may like it or not. But it is reality. And I tell you and all developers who touch the system tell you. PS5 is a revolution. And that revolution will have tangible results. Regardless of the TFs.
I will emphasize it for clarity. Saying that something is wonderful does not mean that the other is shit. Siemplente are different. But PS5 is different from everything seen so far and represents a change at all levels.
And forgive me for repeating it but apparently it seems necessary. I have said on countless occasions that theoretical power is NOT important / relevant, what matters is practical efficiency.
I repeat this because it seems that those conversations have been overlooked.
And to remind you that I do not come here to defend anything. I am not a shareholder in any company, and if it were not for the confinement you would still see me less around here. Which perhaps is what many want. So you would not have to assimilate the possible realities that I have come to put on the table. The data is what it is, the XSX GPU is more powerful in theoretical numbers, the results will be something else. Sometimes they will be better and sometimes they will be the same or worse. But I guess it's not what you want to read. And if some people do not like reality or are unable to accept it (which seems perfect to me) let everyone live in their reality. But if you are one of those I have nothing more to talk about because we would all be wasting our time, and I don't want you to waste your time reading directly to me (or indirectly through the interpretations of others). I prefer that you go to do other more interesting things such as perhaps accepting that what they sometimes sell you is not always relevant. NOT ALWAYS. ("not always" means sometimes yes and sometimes no). Or, for example, see the launch of SpaceX in 6 minutes. (https://www.spacex.com/launches/)
And by the way, I'm not the one obsessed with TFs. You always assume that only more TFs can impress you. Well, no. What is impressive about PS5 is not the TFs but many other things. And when I put that gif, what stunned me wasn't exactly the TFs. We developers are not impressed by TFs or GHZs. Logically against more better, but it does not have the relevance that you think. It shouldn't be a measuring stick.
I hope that what I have written has been of some use to you. At least I hope it serves to keep you distracted for the next few hours while I'm going to watch the launch of SpaceX if they don't cancel it again.
In any case do not suffer the others to which I have not yet responded. I will, you are not going to get rid, but I will when I have time. Later tomorrow or when you can.
Especially the response toBogroll .
Cheers
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This I disagree 100% with. Imagine this level of hype with a proper E3 event to drive it to SpaceX levels!!!!
BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
When did I say that TF is more important than efficiency? If I have always defended efficiency above theoretical power (the numbers used in packaging). Are you talking about me or are you talking about what others have interpreted (good or bad) about my contributions? Because, as far as I know, I have never claimed that PS5 was going to have 13.8TF (neither GCN nor RDNA nor RDNA2). In any case perhaps you mean the 13.8TF that I have always mentioned as a clear joke that I had with some users. Maybe you didn't read those messages. It's possible. With so many messages it is difficult to keep track of these things and be left alone with what the masses interpret. It is much easier to accuse in a short message without first analyzing the original information or even asking me privately to know if you were shitting it or not. But I am sure your intentions were not bad. I forgive you.
Likewise, let us take advantage of the moment to break down the general theme and put each one in her place (so that each one feels alluded to in what she sees fit).
Let's see, the only thing I have stated about PS5 is that it was not 9.2TF. That was over 10TF. And that at one point in time it was more efficient based on the initial DevKits (which over time has been changing to one side and the other to the point that to this day I continue to defend that the final version of PS5 will continue to be more efficient). What does that mean? Well, with less you get more. And that's it.
I have also said good things about XSX (but those are easily forgotten from what I see).
What's wrong with assuming that one product is more revolutionary than another? It's reality. Why not admit it? What do they pay you?
And what is even worse, is that I am not supposed to talk about TFs in a thread called "Speculation / Analysis / Leaks" where all the time TFs are being talked about and little else. Well, no. There is much more, and that is what I have been trying to tell you since I arrived. That you stop the nonsense of the TFs. Everybody.
Another thing is that you like to talk about theoretical equivalences. Where certainly, if you want to talk about theoretical equivalences then ...
9.2 RDNA2 = 11.5 RDNA = 13.8 GCN
10.3 RDNA2 = 12.9 RDNA = 15.5 GCN
(In 3 months they will come saying that I have said that PS5 has + 15TF)
13.8 was a joke (which I said on different occasions, including the first time where I already said it was an EXAMPLE) based on the happy 9.2 that some loved so much. Since you will not expect me to skip the NDA, and less in a public forum.
And yes, for me it is legal to talk about GCN values when all the time you are trying to compare them with PC GPUs and trying to catalog them among the 20xx range. Well, if you want to make numerical equivalences, those exposed would be correct.
What you don't quite understand, and that you have been told a thousand times, is that you CANNOT COMPARE PEARS WITH APPLES. Not seriously. You have every right to do it, but it only serves to pass the time. You cannot compare PCs with Consoles. Never. Unless you do it for fun. Or to try to get an idea of something, but never to affirm anything serious. On PCs and consoles it does not work the same way. They are not exploited in the same way. They are not designed in the same way. They are not personalized in the same way. And they cannot be compared. If you want to do it, you are within your rights, but it is a waste of time.
Now let's go to reality, because talking about theoretical power is fine, but it is pure fantasy everywhere. And what Sony was looking for with PS5 was to make that fantasy come true. That dream". And it has succeeded, it has approached practically perfect efficiency points. Because, excuse me for saying, but did you really believe that the games took advantage of the full potential of your graphics cards? Obviously not, never. Surely it is a reality that some will not be able to bear when the time comes (seen what is seen). But let's be serious. I don't buy a product because of the number it says on the box. I buy a product because of how the games work on it. If you are one of the first, then you are deceived in life. And you know what? That maybe better like this, because that way you will be happier.
But the reality is that this is the theoretical reality. You may like it or not. But it is reality. And I tell you and all developers who touch the system tell you. PS5 is a revolution. And that revolution will have tangible results. Regardless of the TFs.
I will emphasize it for clarity. Saying that something is wonderful does not mean that the other is shit. Siemplente are different. But PS5 is different from everything seen so far and represents a change at all levels.
And forgive me for repeating it but apparently it seems necessary. I have said on countless occasions that theoretical power is NOT important / relevant, what matters is practical efficiency.
I repeat this because it seems that those conversations have been overlooked.
And to remind you that I do not come here to defend anything. I am not a shareholder in any company, and if it were not for the confinement you would still see me less around here. Which perhaps is what many want. So you would not have to assimilate the possible realities that I have come to put on the table. The data is what it is, the XSX GPU is more powerful in theoretical numbers, the results will be something else. Sometimes they will be better and sometimes they will be the same or worse. But I guess it's not what you want to read. And if some people do not like reality or are unable to accept it (which seems perfect to me) let everyone live in their reality. But if you are one of those I have nothing more to talk about because we would all be wasting our time, and I don't want you to waste your time reading directly to me (or indirectly through the interpretations of others). I prefer that you go to do other more interesting things such as perhaps accepting that what they sometimes sell you is not always relevant. NOT ALWAYS. ("not always" means sometimes yes and sometimes no). Or, for example, see the launch of SpaceX in 6 minutes. (https://www.spacex.com/launches/)
And by the way, I'm not the one obsessed with TFs. You always assume that only more TFs can impress you. Well, no. What is impressive about PS5 is not the TFs but many other things. And when I put that gif, what stunned me wasn't exactly the TFs. We developers are not impressed by TFs or GHZs. Logically against more better, but it does not have the relevance that you think. It shouldn't be a measuring stick.
I hope that what I have written has been of some use to you. At least I hope it serves to keep you distracted for the next few hours while I'm going to watch the launch of SpaceX if they don't cancel it again.
In any case do not suffer the others to which I have not yet responded. I will, you are not going to get rid, but I will when I have time. Later tomorrow or when you can.
Especially the response to
Cheers
Flawless launch by Falcon, now it's up to Dragon!
Opinion from those in the industry is always appreciated, even if it clashes with what some people want to hear. Please don't focus on the forum politicians and manipulators, and realise that there are many more people only reading that appreciate your thoughts, and the thoughts of others in the industry.
For many this is a zero-sum game. If one is good the other must be shit. That's the only way the can see things. Any opinion given is seen through this bizarre filter. Any praise for one is implicitly translated in their brain as an insult to the other. It's all political. It's like talking about a belief system or something.
Please keep all the quiet readers and reasonable people in mind when putting the effort you do into translating your posts here. Don't think you're only talking to those that sometimes act like their entire identity and persona is tied to how people perceive a toy.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Nah those E3 Shows and so on had so many cringe moments.
I really don't like watching them. (Both MS and Sony also other too )
Note: God of War reveal was an Epic moment though
Last edited:
B_Boss
Member
BGs
lol:
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
That's some quick skills, holy hell lol However, computer STILL SAYS NO.
travisktl
Member
I just skimmed through their twitter page, and it looks like everything has the "GT" watermark.
Nickolaidas
Banned
Heisenberg, I don't want you to tell me yes or no, I want you to give me an x out of 10. I give you ten games, and you'll give me a number out of ten to show me how many of those ten games (you think) Sony are going to show on the 4th.
Castlevania
Resident Evil
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy
God of War
Spider-Man
Horizon
The Last of Us
Silent Hill
Project Awakening
Last edited:
Apollo Helios
Member
Guys UI is generally worked on up until those consoles are ready to roll and get packaged on the assembly line, that is how much it works on tight schedule. THEN there is a fake leak talking about UI lol nope not possible it is not finalized at all. Only UI and software designers and people checking up on the iterations know about UI at this point and it will be the last thing to be demoed if at all. Plus if it is revealed early it can be copied.
The hardware->box on the other hand can be produced in a mock up, a 1:1 replica of the box that will be the consumer product but ofc non-functional. So they can demo/reveal that earlier on, and I think it can be part of next week's stream, and if not that most definitely one after that. But again forget about seeing UI at this point, it would have need the consoles to be in the production on the assembly lines to be in that readiness phase and we are not at that point.
The hardware->box on the other hand can be produced in a mock up, a 1:1 replica of the box that will be the consumer product but ofc non-functional. So they can demo/reveal that earlier on, and I think it can be part of next week's stream, and if not that most definitely one after that. But again forget about seeing UI at this point, it would have need the consoles to be in the production on the assembly lines to be in that readiness phase and we are not at that point.
geordiemp
Member
Normally I would agree with you, but there was talk about Sony showing a Netflix type menu screen so maybe OS is further ahead as its a feature. We will see.
ZeroFool
Member
Great now I can't unsee that!One eye porn coming right up.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Actually this has put a much bigger spotlight on PS5, as it doesn't have to "share the stage". It's not so good for the other guy who really wants the stage to be shared.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Sadly I have only heard of 3 of those being mentioned as he thought would be at this one or the next one in Aug.
kuncol02
Banned
If they planed to show UI on upcoming event, then they need at least some mock of final version and now they definitely finished at least designing it.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
It was supposed to be a reply to the guy that replied to you. For what it's worth, the entire argument is over simplified. The limiting factor in a system with sufficient cooling is power-draw. A well overclocked modern GPU on sufficient cooling will hit the limits of what it can do when it maxes out power-draw. Further cooling won't help if its hitting maximum power-draw. The maximum is baked into the hardware/firmware itself.
Power-draw is (basically) linked to how much work (calculation) the GPU is doing at any clock speed. That's why even a fixed frequency chip can be barely above room temperature at idle, and overheat to the point of thermally throttling back when running a burn-test or stressful benchmark.
Fixed clocks does not mean no overheating at any load. It doesn't mean a fixed amount of calculation either. It doesn't mean it could flip every single transistor every single cycle (to reach the theoretical maximum TF) without overheating, either. Something purposely designed to completely saturate an XSX GPU would cause it overheat and crash. Just as it would on any other console released to date. The fan and cooling is spec'd for gaming, not benchmarking.
Because of this, and because games just don't fully occupy all CUs and all times per engine tick, Microsoft will have done what Sony did last generation and spec enough margin so that for what they estimate to be a heavy gaming work load, and the upper end of what they expect the ambient temperature to be, it won't overheat and crash.
PS5 targets fixed power draw so that the heat generated and needing to be dissipated isn't estimated but known. Power draw is calculation/work done. In order to maximise efficiency they keep the actual amount of work done as high as the cooling system can manage while varying clock speed to keep it there. The amount of actual work being done doesn't vary, even if the maximum theoretical figure does.
Fixed clocks doesn't mean fixed peak performance. Performance is based on watts consumed. Fixed watts does mean fixed peak performance as far as raw number crunching is concerned.
Neither XSX nor PS5 will have performance that varies based on temperature. PS5's variable clocks doesn't mean variable amounts of useful work being done.
Variable clocks on PC and mobile does mean variable useful work being done, because they thermally throttle, but that couldn't work on a system that needs to allow developers to heavily optimise down to the metal with something deterministic and known.
Trying to keep your number crunchers at maximum TDP is the opposite of a compromise, and is exactly what you want to get the best real world performance, regardless of how that changes some theoretical number that gets spat out of a formula that measures something that not even burn-tests ever really hit.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I mean I am will to be tucked away in Kate Beckingsales cleavage if we need the room.
I would do that for you guys needing room.
SaucyJack
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Xbox being pro consumer is a joke, they've just abandoned this gen, even multiplats like this famous anime game is available on PS4/PC (Steam)/Switch but not Xbox!
PS4 already has more than 4000+. It's been 7 years, the start of the gen was already sporting a weak CPU and a slow 5400rpm HDD, we need to move on! Downloading a game from the web is faster than transferring your games into external HDD! HDD's should be left behind, like 1080p tv's/moniors.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
MasterCornholio
Member
Last edited:
GRIEVEZ
Member
I'm personally not worried at all. This is bolstered by Sony's messaging. They wouldn't announce "moving to next gen" - if they didn't have a strong lineup.
Specially during times like these... I believe they are smarter than that
This so much... I dont remember BC from NES > SNES > N64 > GC
(I didnt own those last two - in that example). I also don't sell any of my consoles...
Yes, as the context is games made for current gen systems (OG ps4 and Xb1) wont hold back the next gen consoles and can be scaled in some way seems to be some narrative. Its still a guesstimate and was made for effect in trying to get posters to see the chasm.
Maybe I should of said current vs next gen consoles, but its easier to make the narrative of collective current gen as Jaguar based as its not console specfic.
Did you ever play destiny 1 when you go into an area and the same enemies spawn in the same places, moved same way and did the same stuff ?
I sort of depended on those spawn placements for efficient farming hahahaha.
But im sure we can agree, we'd all love better AI and more enemies on screen. We've basically had the same braindead enemies for well over a decade... Maybe we can use ML?
?You make a lot of assumptions... Specially since we dont have RDNA2 out yet... Do you honestly think, they just clocked it to 2.23Ghz hoping it wasnt unstable? Come on now
Apollo Helios
Member
OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
Edit: source website for your translation pleasure
www.hepsiburada.com
Edit: source website for your translation pleasure
Playstation 5 Fiyatı & Playstation 5 Özellikleri Hepsiburada'da!
Sony Playstation 5 özellikleri bu sayfada. Tıkla, Sony PS5 özellikleri, çıkış tarihi ve fiyatı gibi bilgileri keşfetmeye başla.
www.hepsiburada.com
Last edited:
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
Dont think so.
PS3 Backcompatible but not PS1?
Nah sounds fishy.
geordiemp
Member
OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
Do you want to Translate some of it please (interesting bits / new stuff). We cant google tranlate an image.
Last edited:
Delpij
Member
PS1 games have been emulated for a while, no?
Mr Moose
Gold Member
Why does it say DDR6?OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
I'm using the phone app to translate, need to find my phones tripod lol.
Last edited:
FranXico
Member
Broken link, can you PM me please?OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Thats what I don't understand.
Why wouldn't they say so if these game work?
Also I would like to know if you can use your old discs. I would doubt that.
I'm quite sure backcompatibility with old games on discs could prove some vulnerability to the console.
Easier to find a way to get into the system and hack/crack it.
I might be completly wrong though...
SSfox
Member
OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
Delpij
Member
Found the sauce for the PS2-4 BC at https://www.hepsiburada.com/staticpage/755668107574384
Looks legit, but hey.
Looks legit, but hey.
T-Cake
Member
That is a fantastic boot up sequence but Sony never put the "SONY" logo on the PS startup.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Always been GDDR6
PS5 review
The PS5 is a confident step into the next-generation of gaming, with Sony's evolutions across hardware, graphics, gameplay, and UI really paying off for PlayStation gamers.
Mr Moose
Gold Member
Yeah, that image says DDR6 RAM, it's missing the G.Always been GDDR6
PS5 review
The PS5 is a confident step into the next-generation of gaming, with Sony's evolutions across hardware, graphics, gameplay, and UI really paying off for PlayStation gamers.www.gamesradar.com
MasterCornholio
Member
OK got hold of a document apparently from one of the retailers in my country. It is in Turkish and looks similar to official documents for PS4 generation when it was going on pre-order. And it has all the correct specs and everything but also information on BC, it says PS2 and PS3 games are BC on PS5 and not just PS4 games. I will share that now, feel free to discuss if it is fake or if it could be real.
There's some mistakes there. Like when it states the GHZs for the GPU it says HGZ.
Last edited:
Apollo Helios
Member
Translate on the bit about BC
Subtitle: Unique design that merges old and new
Since Playstation 5 supports all the games of the previous generations, you can play them on your new console. In other words, all the games that are on Playstation 2, 3 and 4 can be played on Playstation 5. With this feature Sony who steals their users hearts (Turkish adage here and translated directly so..) helps enable gamers keep on playing their beloved franchises without any sacrifice.
Subtitle: Unique design that merges old and new
Since Playstation 5 supports all the games of the previous generations, you can play them on your new console. In other words, all the games that are on Playstation 2, 3 and 4 can be played on Playstation 5. With this feature Sony who steals their users hearts (Turkish adage here and translated directly so..) helps enable gamers keep on playing their beloved franchises without any sacrifice.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Last edited:
Oligarch097
Neo Member
PUSH THE GOD DAMN BUTTON MAN
Pretty sure Spider-Man 2 is in development and wasn't HZD 2 confirmed by devs? Not 100% sure about that. I think GT7 is very likely, they talked too much about next-gen to not announce that.
Last edited:
SportsFan581
Member
I don't see how the disks would make back compat dangerous, at least to the current ecosystem. Could someone find a way to play bootleg PS3/2/1 games, sure, but who really cares. It's not like there is a retail market for new disks on those.
Lack of PS1 support could actually be the result of not including a diode for CD playback in the BR drive (Xbone and PS4 already ditched these). I would love PS1 back compat though, what a shame for it not to make the cut if that is the case.
Exciting news! It would be amazing if MS and Sony both announced full backwards compatibility with all their previous consoles.
Last edited:
- Status