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[geordiemp]

Well, to be fair there's a whole lot of things we don't know. But we do know how smartshift works and the analogy of the mountain bike is not really the best one. The interval of this the frequency "shifts" isn't in any way comparable to thermal throttling (like classic boost clocks deal with). It means within the time it takes to render 1 or 2 frames, the power shifts between the cpu and gpu (if needed) and then back to the previous state. Meaning the heavier workload takes priority. So the clock speeds are actually more stable than the theoretical speeds in current gpu architecture (due to thermals).

Let me try a bike analogy for the PS5 too, it would be like you're trying to climb a hill and instead of applying equal pressure on both legs, you shift your weight left and right, depending on which leg is doing the downward movement.

As for the XSX, the previous analogy with the car going 120MPH was pretty good, won't even touch it

Actually AMD smartshift is 2ms, so its very rapid. We dont know what Ps5 does yet for smart shift and teh GPU downclock on edge case / virus type code generating heat.

I would expect its also many times a frame. Waiting for sensor to detect heat at one location on an area of a die is allot slower than deterministically knowing what causes heat before work load is processed.

 

[Dolomite]

Not to be a debbie downer, but dirt 5 looks like ass

Dirt Rally fan here

I feel that I mean it's no Forza horizon or GT, but we're talking 120 frames 4k with RT not polygon counts.

 

[Vae_Victis]

I don't want to sound like a Microsoft or Xbox hater because I really am not one, but the more time passes the more they talk fancy names and show fancy presentation without actually saying or clarifying much.


We already had a console teardown, and yet a lot of aspects past the general specifications are not clear at all and they never bothered to clarify later on (a lot of stuff relative to the SSD and the actual I/O structure was kept quite vague compared to the PS5 talk, even though that's a pretty major point of the new systems).

There was a full gameplay event, where the only "gameplay" anybody saw were a couple of seconds here and there as part of scripted trailers, and not a single game shown was even actually running on an Xbox (as they thankfully disclaimed, this time around).

Now with this video (and the accompanying blog post) I don't even really know what they were trying to say other than the absolute obvious or the absolutely pointless. All I can gather is that "Optimized for Series X" means that the game is an actual XSX release, not just an XB1 game running in backwards compatibility mode (well you don't fucking say), and that "select games" will run at 4K and "up to 120 fps" (again, this is so vague they are basically saying nothing; can you be bothered to name ONE game that you KNOW will run at 60, let alone one at 120?).

EDIT: I rembered and checked that on a different occasion the developers of Dirt 5 said the game will run at 120 fps on XSX. Why Microsoft doesn't parade this a lot more remains a mystery to me.


I don't doubt that the XSX will be a good piece of hardware, because the components inside it are objectively good, but I'm starting to wonder if something behind the curtains is moving slower than anticipated (like issues with devkits optimization/performance), and they are putting forward as much filler as possible for months on end with little to no substance behind.

I really hope for Microsoft's sake that they are just playing a weird waiting game and come July they will actually show something tangible running on this machine, because if a Halo video plays and I read "Game footage shown is running on equivalent hardware as it is expected to perform on Xbox Series X", then I'll feel justified anticipating issues at launch.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Certainly not a standard, but a damn impressive target. Dirt 5 has already achieved this on the series x with RT at 4k. Dirt Dev said he literally asked his co-workers to come in and check out his monitor because he was in disbelief at the performance they got before optimization. It's lame to see people downplaying this like it isn't impressive or won't be happen very often

No it hasn't. You are mixing things up.

4K RT was separate of the 120FPS mode, they weren't one and the same.

 

[Tqaulity]

What's interesting is the clear divergence in philosophies between Microsoft and Sony in terms of what "next gen" really means. Microsoft is clear about their strategy to essentially bill Xbox Series X as a "high end PC for the living room". They are content with just adding more horsepower to continue to improve on the acceleration of current games. Sony meanwhile is attempting to fundamentally change the paradigm of how games are made today (and for the past 25 years or so). In doing so, they are sacrificing some of the immediate mindshare since their box does not scale quite as high in conventional terms and the fruits of their labor won't really be evident for another few years at least.

This is evident in the messaging from both companies. It's clear as day when you listen to their executives or read their official channels.

Microsoft (check out question @ 1:53 in the following video). 3 tops pillars that separates Xbox Series X:

1. Higher Visual Fidelity (I.e. 4K resolution)
2. Faster Framerates (i.e 60-120 fps games)
3. Veolcity Architecture (faster loading and more responsive games)

Sony (Example Jim Ryan Interview) 3 top pillars that separate PS5:

1. Ultra Fast SSD
2. New levels of Immersion via Dual Sense Controller
3. 3D Audio Tech

Whenever you hear developers or Sony executives talk about key features of the PS5, they rarely highlight the CPU/GPU advantages. You rarely hear 4K, 60fps, etc from Sony (the PS5 Reveal Event did not mention or highlight 4K once!). I don't think that's because their wont' be 4K games or that the CPU and GPU benefits aren't there. Rather, Sony (and their developers) recognize that those changes aren't the most meaningful for next gen. Partly because the difference is harder to perceive at this point due to diminishing returns and all that. But also because it's the "same ole same ole". Every generation CPUs and GPUs get faster and games look better. So, what's really new? We saw how stagnant the PS4/XB1 generation was (result: hundreds of remasters of old games) with no real innovative tech to push the medium forward. But sure, PS4 game still looked better and ran faster than PS3 games.

Meanwhile, Microsoft is consistently throwing resolution and frame rates down our throats (as they have been since the Xbox One X). Just go back and read nearly every interview for an Xbox Series X developer (Dirt 5, Scorn, Ascent, Medium etc) and when they are asked what does the Xbox Series bring to the table that is different or unique, they almost always says something about pushing 4K/60 (or beyond) and maybe a bit about shorter loading times). That's it! I've heard nothing from a developer about how Series X allows them to approach any aspect of game development in a fundamentally different way to push new types of experiences than what we've seen before.

Microsoft is clearly targeting the enthusiast PC gaming audience with Series X and that's fine for them. There are many that will love that and appreciate them for it. However, the average person walking into a Walmart to purchase a new game does not really care about 4K/60fps (or even really understand what that means). Developers love the freedom and flexibility PS5 is bringing to the table and end users will only care about the quality of games and what the end result looks like on screen.

I say that to say Microsoft is focusing on the same thing they've always focused on since the OG Xbox (i.e. power and specs) and it has proven to not be a winning strategy. PS2 is the highest selling console and it was the "weakest" of it's generation. PS1 dominated it's generation and was also weaker than Saturn and N64 in terms of specs. I was just hoping that Microsoft would have learned that lesson and tried a different approach for this generation. But ultimately, it's the games that will do the talking so we'll see come July

 

[Dargor]

Hopefully Sony won't go no brain full retard mode and censure this game on PS4/PS5 like they did with DMC5

I know they fixed their mistake about DMC5, but y'know...

That will only happen with smaller studios, bigger studios that have weight to throw around will get a pass.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Starting to feel like this "Halo Comeback" based off of youtube views is AstroTurfed. We witnessed 2 years of almost daily Xbox comeback puff pieces and now conveniently "Halos going to come back bigger and better" takes are being thrown around. Ill wait and see.

I think Microsoft giving 343i five full years of development time and the rumored 500 million for budget is a valid reason to be optimistic about Halo Infinite.

 

[Nikana]

Somebody will the turn the DualSense into a sex toy with Dreams.

What do you mean somebody...it's me.

 

[Brudda26]

I think Microsoft giving 343i five full years of development time and the rumored 500 million for budget is a valid reason to be optimistic about Halo Infinite.

There is also the stories about it being absolute development hell and multiple other studios have had to jump in and help

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What's interesting is the clear divergence in philosophies between Microsoft and Sony in terms of what "next gen" really means. Microsoft is clear about their strategy to essentially bill Xbox Series X as a "high end PC for the living room". They are content with just adding more horsepower to continue to improve on the acceleration of current games. Sony meanwhile is attempting to fundamentally change the paradigm of how games are made today (and for the past 25 years or so). In doing so, they are sacrificing some of the immediate mindshare since their box does not scale quite as high in conventional terms and the fruits of their labor won't really be evident for another few years at least.

This is evident in the messaging from both companies. It's clear as day when you listen to their executives or read their official channels.

Microsoft (check out question @ 1:53 in the following video). 3 tops pillars that separates Xbox Series X:

1. Higher Visual Fidelity (I.e. 4K resolution)
2. Faster Framerates (i.e 60-120 fps games)
3. Veolcity Architecture (faster loading and more responsive games)

Sony (Example Jim Ryan Interview) 3 top pillars that separate PS5:

1. Ultra Fast SSD
2. New levels of Immersion via Dual Sense Controller
3. 3D Audio Tech

Whenever you hear developers or Sony executives talk about key features of the PS5, they rarely highlight the CPU/GPU advantages. You rarely hear 4K, 60fps, etc from Sony (the PS5 Reveal Event did not mention or highlight 4K once!). I don't think that's because their wont' be 4K games or that the CPU and GPU benefits aren't there. Rather, Sony (and their developers) recognize that those changes aren't the most meaningful for next gen. Partly because the difference is harder to perceive at this point due to diminishing returns and all that. But also because it's the "same ole same ole". Every generation CPUs and GPUs get faster and games look better. So, what's really new? We saw how stagnant the PS4/XB1 generation was (result: hundreds of remasters of old games) with no real innovative tech to push the medium forward. But sure, PS4 game still looked better and ran faster than PS3 games.

Meanwhile, Microsoft is consistently throwing resolution and frame rates down our throats (as they have been since the Xbox One X). Just go back and read nearly every interview for an Xbox Series X developer (Dirt 5, Scorn, Ascent, Medium etc) and when they are asked what does the Xbox Series bring to the table that is different or unique, they almost always says something about pushing 4K/60 (or beyond) and maybe a bit about shorter loading times). That's it! I've heard nothing from a developer about how Series X allows them to approach any aspect of game development in a fundamentally different way to push new types of experiences than what we've seen before.

Microsoft is clearly targeting the enthusiast PC gaming audience with Series X and that's fine for them. There are many that will love that and appreciate them for it. However, the average person walking into a Walmart to purchase a new game does not really care about 4K/60fps (or even really understand what that means). Developers love the freedom and flexibility PS5 is bringing to the table and end users will only care about the quality of games and what the end result looks like on screen.

I say that to say Microsoft is focusing on the same thing they've always focused on since the OG Xbox (i.e. power and specs) and it has proven to not be a winning strategy. PS2 is the highest selling console and it was the "weakest" of it's generation. PS1 dominated it's generation and was also weaker than Saturn and N64 in terms of specs. I was just hoping that Microsoft would have learned that lesson and tried a different approach for this generation. But ultimately, it's the games that will do the talking so we'll see come July

You think Microsoft is targeting the enthusiast PC gamer market with Series X?

Why would an enthusiast PC gamer buy a Series X when they invest so heavily into their PC rig?

PC+PS5 or Switch makes sense.
PC+Series X doesn't.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There is also the stories about it being absolute development hell and multiple other studios have had to jump in and help

True, but we've also heard rumors that MS is very confident in Halo And it'll be showcased center stage at the July event.

Rumors are rumors. Facts are facts.

 

[TBiddy]

I think it's already established you know nothing about the numbers you are regurgitating... you confirmed as much yourself.

Perhaps you'd care to show how you calculate your 20% lol ... or perhaps you prefer not to embarrass yourself (again).

10 + 20% is 12.

Keep up the personal insults by the way.

 

[roops67]

This isn't really it at all. The PS5 GPU will only ever hit 10.3 TFlops max. The XSX will only ever hit 12.1 TFlops max.

The distinction on the PS5 side comes in with variable clocks for more complex code. It's more like gears on a bike where you spend most of your time in one gear for flat surfaces (2.25 Ghz) but when you start going uphill (complex code) that requires more power, you change to a lower gear (2.1 Ghz, 2.0 Ghz, etc.) to keep your legs from burning out.

XSX runs all code at the same speed, and they've landed on 1.825 Ghz as the safest, constant speed.

Was trying to keep my explanation simple. Well you got the variable frequency explanation sorta covered, thanks

That Steve Zissou as your avatar pic?

 

[iamvin22]

I might be completely wrong but I'm not expecting much from 343i, they don't have a great track record. Also according to Schreier and Matt from era the development of the game has been rough, we'll see.

Same here. 343i, just can't do it. Halo 5 was terrible especially the ending.

Back on track. I am interested in what everyone thinks about goreteks 3D stacking for PS5 cliam?

 

[sircaw]

I don't want to sound like a Microsoft or Xbox hater because I really am not one, but the more time passes the more they talk fancy names and show fancy presentation without actually saying or clarifying much.


We already had a console teardown, and yet a lot of aspects past the general specifications are not clear at all and they never bothered to clarify later on (a lot of stuff relative to the SSD and the actual I/O structure was kept quite vague compared to the PS5 talk, even though that's a pretty major point of the new systems).

There was a full gameplay event, where the only "gameplay" anybody saw were a couple of seconds here and there as part of scripted trailers, and not a single game shown was even actually running on an Xbox (as they thankfully disclaimed, this time around).

Now with this video (and the accompanying blog post) I don't even really know what they were trying to say other than the absolute obvious or the absolutely pointless. All I can gather is that "Optimized for Series X" means that the game is an actual XSX release, not just an XB1 game running in backwards compatibility mode (well you don't fucking say), and that "select games" will run at 4K and "up to 120 fps" (again, this is so vague they are basically saying nothing; can you be bothered to name ONE game that you KNOW will run at 60, let alone one at 120?).

EDIT: I rembered and checked that on a different occasion the developers of Dirt 5 said the game will run at 120 fps on XSX. Why Microsoft doesn't parade this a lot more remains a mystery to me.


I don't doubt that the XSX will be a good piece of hardware, because the components inside it are objectively good, but I'm starting to wonder if something behind the curtains is moving slower than anticipated (like issues with devkits optimization/performance), and they are putting forward as much filler as possible for months on end with little to no substance behind.

I really hope for Microsoft's sake that they are just playing a weird waiting game and come July they will actually show something tangible running on this machine, because if a Halo video plays and I read "Game footage shown is running on equivalent software as it is expected to perform on Xbox Series X", then I'll feel justified anticipating issues at launch.

I got bitched at the other day for telling Microsoft to basically fuck off, cos i am sick of tired of them with all their Buzz and hype words.

Alot of Microsoft fans are having a hard time understanding that people are just sick and tired of waiting,

I am looking forward to their showing, there are lots of people that are to. I just find it insulting that your not allowed to vent or level any sort of criticism at their strategy or format.

Your just a hater and ruining everyone else's fun if you do.

I have never seen people so engrossed in defending multi billion companies that in essence that will say and do anything to make you buy there product.

IF you have shares in the company fair enough but to defend them like their family. Seriously wtf.

This goes for all companies, deliver the goods or get out so someone else can do it.

 

[Mr Moose]

10 + 20% is 12.

Keep up the personal insults by the way.

10.28 (peak) + 17.7% (12.1).

 

[TBiddy]

10.28 (peak) + 17.7% (12.1).

Fair enough - it's more precise.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Lame seeing MS marketing team trying to dupe people into believing 120 FPS will be some sort of optimized for XSX standard.

They literally have a game that is optimized for XSX to run at 120fps... It won't be the only one

 

[sircaw]

They literally have a game that is optimized for XSX to run at 120fps... It won't be the only one

Do you think that video can be seen as misleading ?>

 

[Mr Moose]

Fair enough - it's more precise.

I think I did it wrong, I think it's 10.28 + 18.17% (12.14). I think this one is closer to being correct? lol. (3328 x 2 x 1.825)

 

[Gediminas]

closest to being correct is 12,15 goes to 10,28 which is 15,4%. so xbox is more powerful then PS5 by 15,4%.

 

[Physiognomonics]

What's interesting is the clear divergence in philosophies between Microsoft and Sony in terms of what "next gen" really means. Microsoft is clear about their strategy to essentially bill Xbox Series X as a "high end PC for the living room". They are content with just adding more horsepower to continue to improve on the acceleration of current games. Sony meanwhile is attempting to fundamentally change the paradigm of how games are made today (and for the past 25 years or so). In doing so, they are sacrificing some of the immediate mindshare since their box does not scale quite as high in conventional terms and the fruits of their labor won't really be evident for another few years at least.

This is evident in the messaging from both companies. It's clear as day when you listen to their executives or read their official channels.

Microsoft (check out question @ 1:53 in the following video). 3 tops pillars that separates Xbox Series X:

1. Higher Visual Fidelity (I.e. 4K resolution)
2. Faster Framerates (i.e 60-120 fps games)
3. Veolcity Architecture (faster loading and more responsive games)

Sony (Example Jim Ryan Interview) 3 top pillars that separate PS5:

1. Ultra Fast SSD
2. New levels of Immersion via Dual Sense Controller
3. 3D Audio Tech

Whenever you hear developers or Sony executives talk about key features of the PS5, they rarely highlight the CPU/GPU advantages. You rarely hear 4K, 60fps, etc from Sony (the PS5 Reveal Event did not mention or highlight 4K once!). I don't think that's because their wont' be 4K games or that the CPU and GPU benefits aren't there. Rather, Sony (and their developers) recognize that those changes aren't the most meaningful for next gen. Partly because the difference is harder to perceive at this point due to diminishing returns and all that. But also because it's the "same ole same ole". Every generation CPUs and GPUs get faster and games look better. So, what's really new? We saw how stagnant the PS4/XB1 generation was (result: hundreds of remasters of old games) with no real innovative tech to push the medium forward. But sure, PS4 game still looked better and ran faster than PS3 games.

Meanwhile, Microsoft is consistently throwing resolution and frame rates down our throats (as they have been since the Xbox One X). Just go back and read nearly every interview for an Xbox Series X developer (Dirt 5, Scorn, Ascent, Medium etc) and when they are asked what does the Xbox Series bring to the table that is different or unique, they almost always says something about pushing 4K/60 (or beyond) and maybe a bit about shorter loading times). That's it! I've heard nothing from a developer about how Series X allows them to approach any aspect of game development in a fundamentally different way to push new types of experiences than what we've seen before.

Microsoft is clearly targeting the enthusiast PC gaming audience with Series X and that's fine for them. There are many that will love that and appreciate them for it. However, the average person walking into a Walmart to purchase a new game does not really care about 4K/60fps (or even really understand what that means). Developers love the freedom and flexibility PS5 is bringing to the table and end users will only care about the quality of games and what the end result looks like on screen.

I say that to say Microsoft is focusing on the same thing they've always focused on since the OG Xbox (i.e. power and specs) and it has proven to not be a winning strategy. PS2 is the highest selling console and it was the "weakest" of it's generation. PS1 dominated it's generation and was also weaker than Saturn and N64 in terms of specs. I was just hoping that Microsoft would have learned that lesson and tried a different approach for this generation. But ultimately, it's the games that will do the talking so we'll see come July

Microsoft sure talk a lot, like:

- 120 fps
- instant loadings
- Ray tracing
- 8K printed on their APU.

Their PR is great, plenty of promises. But what did they actually show so far ?

- Their most impressive game was an in-engine cutscene running at 24fps (not even real-time).
- SSD loading demo: 11 seconds to load a XB1 game
- Minecraft (Switch geometry, static world) + RT running on XSX... at 1080p 30fps.

 

[gamechanger87]

I got bitched at the other day for telling Microsoft to basically fuck off, cos i am sick of tired of them with all their Buzz and hype words.

Alot of Microsoft fans are having a hard time understanding that people are just sick and tired of waiting,

I am looking forward to their showing, there are lots of people that are to. I just find it insulting that your not allowed to vent or level any sort of criticism at their strategy or format.

Your just a hater and ruining everyone else's fun if you do.

I have never seen people so engrossed in defending multi billion companies that in essence that will say and do anything to make you buy there product.

IF you have shares in the company fair enough but to defend them like their family. Seriously wtf.

This goes for all companies, deliver the goods or get out so someone else can do it.

MS has kept people waiting?

They did a teardown and let people see the console in person and put it together. MS is planning on doing a deep dive at HotChips like they always have.

We just saw the PS5 outside and still don't have any clue what the inside looks like.

They overhyped the last presentation which was always 3rd party and have been planning on a July first party showdown.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Do you think that video can be seen as misleading ?>

It's marketing? Do you think "Gillette the best a man can get" is misleading?

 

[sircaw]

It's marketing? Do you think "Gillette the best a man can get" is misleading?

I am not asking about Gillette, please don't try and deflect. i am asking you do you think Microsoft's video was misleading?

Its a simple yes or no.

 

[Mr Moose]

closest to being correct is 12,15 goes to 10,28 which is 15,4%. so xbox is more powerful then PS5 by 15,4%.

Isn't it PS5 ~15% less powerful, Series X ~18% more powerful? (Based on TF and whichever we use as a base).
I hate maths, I am going to go get drunk :<

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Was trying to keep my explanation simple. Well you got the variable frequency explanation sorta covered, thanks

That Steve Zissou as your avatar pic?

The one and only! This gif sums up how I feel most conversations go in this thread (Including me sometimes):

I need to apologize because I actually misread the context of your posts. I was specifically talking about the variable frequency that is shockingly still misunderstood. After re-reading your analogy it's closer than I first thought, but this post from Insane Metal sums it up nicely:

It is easy. It is useless to have 12 boxes if they do not fit through the door all together.

You have 12 boxes to fill. So you can't pass all the boxes at once. You must decide which boxes will pass and which will not. That is handled by a coordinator. And the coordinator tells the delivery man which boxes to take.

Mrs. XSX wants to make the move as soon as possible, but it turns out that only 8 boxes can fit on the door at a time. The coordinator is fast, and also uses a box compressor so that 10 boxes can go through instead of 8, but there are several drawbacks. The compressor can only compress the red boxes, and the coordinator also has to coordinate many other things, street traffic, people passing through the door, the space in the room where the boxes are stored, the noise of neighbors who distract the delivery man, search and select what the boxes are filled with, etc. Also, the delivery man is not so fast and is very distracted filling and transporting boxes. So it passes the 10 boxes (not 12) at a certain speed "1x". The lady demands that the boxes arrive, but they do not arrive as quickly as the lady would like, since although she has many boxes, the system is not capable of managing all of them properly.

On the other hand we have Mrs. PS5. You only have 10 boxes to fill. But its door is twice as big, enough for all its boxes to enter at once and there is room for people to also enter and exit through the door. Furthermore, the coordinator has the ability to automatically discard unnecessary boxes, so he doesn't waste time checking boxes that are not going to be used. In addition, anyone in the environment can do the job of the coordinator or the delivery man (even at the same time). The compressor is not that new, but it can compress all boxes, whether they are red or blue. All. And the delivery man is more than twice as fast and manages to pass the boxes at the speed of "2.5x" in the worst case, and "5x" on many occasions. In addition, if someone is left free or without work, they can help to distribute boxes with the delivery man or coordinate work with the coordinator. All this makes this removal company the most efficient ever seen and that the number of boxes available is irrelevant. For that moving system, 12 boxes are not needed, with 10 you can do the same job (and more or better in some cases). Having more boxes would only make the price of the move more expensive without needing any of it.

Of course, having more boxes available always helps to advertise yourself as a top removal company compared to the competition, even if your removal company is normal and ordinary. But it is only that, a smokescreen.

That does not mean that XSX is bad, far from it, it is an extraordinary machine. But PS5 has an efficiency NEVER seen before.

It is true that on PC there are more powerful cards or more powerful systems, but you know that these cards are never used properly, they draw raw power, but they are never used. It is the scourge of PC, an ecosystem that is too varied and unusable. In addition to exorbitant prices.

And I've always been a PCLover, but things as they are, what I've seen on PS5 I only remember something similar when 3DFX and its Glide came out. Its astonishing speed leaves you speechless.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I think Microsoft giving 343i five full years of development time and the rumored 500 million for budget is a valid reason to be optimistic about Halo Infinite.

I think two changes in creative direction and rumours of rough development are valid reasons otherwise.

 

[Gudji]

Isn't it PS5 ~15% less powerful, Series X ~18% more powerful? (Based on TF and whichever we use as a base).
I hate maths, I am going to go get drunk :<

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Neo Blaster]

True, but we've also heard rumors that MS is very confident in Halo And it'll be showcased center stage at the July event.

Rumors are rumors. Facts are facts.

They HAVE to show confidence, it's their flagship by the way.

 

[SSfox]

closest to being correct is 12,15 goes to 10,28 which is 15,4%. so xbox is more powerful then PS5 by 15,4%.

Don't forget PS5 clocks are faster.

& Honestly between 15% of GPU power, compare to a high quality audio and more than twice faster SSD, i would take the last option without any hesitation, at all.

+ The exclusive games from WWS that are just the icing in the cake.

 

[Tqaulity]

You think Microsoft is targeting the enthusiast PC gamer market with Series X?

Why would an enthusiast PC gamer buy a Series X when they invest so heavily into their PC rig?

PC+PS5 or Switch makes sense.
PC+Series X doesn't.

They absolutely are targeting the high end PC enthusiast with the Series X. They have said so as well but it's pretty evident. For one, which segment of the audience really truly cares about 4K/60/120? It's the PC enthusiastic that will spend thousands on a rig to play the latest games at 4K/60+fps. You've never heard a dedicated console gamer (i.e. someone who has never played played a game on a "high end" PC) complain about how they need 120fps for next gen . Or how games are "lacking" if they are not 120, 144, or higher hz. Or how 1440p or 1800p is not enough . Seriously, nobody outside the PC enthusiast crowd talks like that.

Second, let's not forget that Microsoft is building the "Xbox Series" as a new open platform that will cover the entire market. Series X is their high end and the Lockhart will be their casual product. There will be others as well but by product placement and by design the Series X is intended for the most discerning gamer who wants top performance in their games.

In terms of your question as to why would a PC gamer buy a Series X when they have a high end PC rig, I actually completely agree with you. I've been saying that ever since Microsoft announced that all first party titles will come to PC and Xbox simultaneously back in 2016. To me, PC+PS5 or Switch would be the best coverage for what you want to play. That said, people are still buying Xbox One S and One X. Many PC enthusiast are also just tech enthusiasts and want to get the latest and greatest tech for other areas of their home. And also, many still prefer gaming in their living room and on a dedicated console. That's what Microsoft is betting on, but I still believe that the size of that audience is smaller than the Xbox audience was at the launch of the X360 for example.

 

[Gudji]

I think Microsoft giving 343i five full years of development time and the rumored 500 million for budget is a valid reason to be optimistic about Halo Infinite.

The 500 million rumor was debunked a while ago AFAIK. But let's imagine for a second that it's real... how exactly would they recoup that investment done on a single game, made by a developer that doesn't have a great track record and without guarantees of success? Seems too risky to me and believe me, they do evaluate the risk of every single project.

Like Shawn Layden said a couple of days ago, most big budget games cost around 100-150 Million to make, 500 is just out of the realm of possibility but who knows maybe I'm wrong.
The most expensive game to date AFAIK is Star Wars The Old Republic (The MMORPG) and it cost EA around 200 Million. After many years it ended up being sucessful but they had to to sweat for it!

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

How Realistic Is the No Loading Screen Benchmark For PS5 and Xbox Series X? We Asked the Devs

"We expect there will be big steps towards shorter loading sequences and also smarter, less intrusive ways to hide the actual loading sequences," says Viacheslav Kobylinskyi, Lead Programmer at Frogwares.

Lukasz Hacura, Anshar's CEO, is happy to discuss the perspective on next-gen SSDs that working on System Redux has given him.

"As for the loading times, they are now significantly reduced to the point where most players shouldn't notice any," says Szymon Erdmanski, Producer for Bloober on System Redux. "We're still optimizing the game so I'm not ready to say there will be no noticeable loadings at all, but this is where we are headed."

How Realistic Is the No Loading Screen Benchmark For PS5 and Xbox Series X? We Asked the Devs

One of the big promises of the upcoming generation of consoles is the end of loading times. It could be a huge moment; one that brings generations of distrac...

www.usgamer.net

 

[Neo Blaster]

The 500 million rumor was debunked a while ago AFAIK. But let's imagine for a second that it's real... how exactly would they recoup that investment done on a single game, made by a developer that doesn't have a great track record and without guarantees of success? Seems too risky to me and believe me, they do evaluate the risk of every single project.

Like Shawn Layden said a couple of days ago, most big budget games cost around 100-150 Million to make, 500 is just out of the realm of possibility but who knows maybe I'm wrong.
The most expensive game to date AFAIK is Star Wars The Old Republic (The MMORPG) and it cost EA around 200 Million. After many years it ended up being sucessful but they had to to sweat for it!

Let's not forget it will be day and date on Gamepass, so it's even worse.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Having confidence Halo Infinite will be amazing is a recipe for disappointing yourself.

Much prefer in general to keep my expectations in check for ANY game, let alone a game from a dev like 343i who can't release a remaster of a 10 year old game on PC without things like.. the audio not really working.

I'll be thrilled if Halo Infinite is awesome but I'm not gonna go in expecting it.

 

[zaitsu]

Having confidence Halo Infinite will be amazing is a recipe for disappointing yourself.

Much prefer in general to keep my expectations in check for ANY game, let alone a game from a dev like 343i who can't release a remaster of a 10 year old game on PC without things like.. the audio not really working.

I'll be thrilled if Halo Infinite is awesome but I'm not gonna go in expecting it.

Ive never understood halo phenomen. Maybe because u was never in to multiplayer FPS.

 

[Gudji]

Ive never understood halo phenomen. Maybe because u was never in to multiplayer FPS.

It's because it was one of the first FPS to feel great to play on consoles. The whole package was good overall: it was sci-fi, it had a mysterious story, it looked great graphically, it played well and it had multiplayer, the latter being one of the biggest reasons for it's success. Also later on with Halo 2 bungie also helped MS develop Xbox Live on the Xbox 360, and that pushed online gaming on consoles to a whole new level.

But yeah I get why you don't understand it, I bought an xbox one back in 2015 just to play halo and gears and I was kinda disappointed with those games. They're good, just not mindblowing... maybe If I had played it back then I would love it has well.

 

[splattered]

Crazy all the damage controlling and complaining we're already seeing before the MS July event drops... trying to pick apart any little thing about xbox that you can before their big game reveal event.

Just chill and look forward to the playstation 5 people... the PS5 and XsX are both going to be awesome machines.

In the grand scheme of things DO NOT expect either to revolutionize the way games are made or experienced. We have seen generation after generation of promises and gimmicks that end up fizzling out or just falling flat.

The most we can hope for is higher fidelity, faster frame rates, and faster loading. Both boxes will deliver that.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

How are you betting on one game to save your show. From a studio & game thats below gold standard of shooters/multiplayers.

There should be no capping for this game. All these apologist & damage controllers coming out WTF. When shit is Mediocre. Call that shit out when you see it.

 

[AllBizness]

I feel that I mean it's no Forza horizon or GT, but we're talking 120 frames 4k with RT not polygon counts.

No way that game is going to run 120fps in native 4k with RT on consoles.

 

[Dolomite]

No it hasn't. You are mixing things up.

4K RT was separate of the 120FPS mode, they weren't one and the same.

Source?
Nothing in this article or the video interviews I saw lead me to believe it's one of the other

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.x...10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/amp/

 

[Brudda26]

No way that game is going to run 120fps in native 4k with RT on consoles.

That's because it's not its 4k 60fps and a undetermined resolution at 120fps

 

[Brudda26]

Source?
Nothing in this article or the video interviews I saw lead me to believe it's one of the other

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.x...10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/amp/

There is 60fps and 120fps modes. The developers stated so themselves.

 

[jose4gg]

Source?
Nothing in this article or the video interviews I saw lead me to believe it's one of the other

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.x...10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/amp/

"For Dirt 5, the power of Series X means that the game looks incredible at 60fps – you've seen it, it looks fantastic – but we're also able to offer amazingly smooth, responsive gameplay at 120fps while still looking gorgeous."

This is why people in this conversation have been critical about MS dishonest messaging, you even sent the link but wasn't able to recognize by yourself that the game won't be 4K 120FPS....

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Source?
Nothing in this article or the video interviews I saw lead me to believe it's one of the other

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.x...10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/amp/

The article seems to suggest there is a 60 FPS mode and a 120 FPS mode.

It also reads as if the guy answering was given a list of marketing bullet points to mention about Xbox Series X in response to some pretty flat questions.

Also, using some effects that rely on ray-tracing hardware is not at all the same as a fully per-pixel ray-traced "path traced" game.

Neither XSX nor a 2080Ti could do that outside of basic Voxel games like Minecraft currently.
You pretty much can't do any culling with "full" ray-tracing.

 

[Games Dean]

Crazy all the damage controlling and complaining we're already seeing before the MS July event drops... trying to pick apart any little thing about xbox that you can before their big game reveal event.

Just chill and look forward to the playstation 5 people... the PS5 and XsX are both going to be awesome machines.

In the grand scheme of things DO NOT expect either to revolutionize the way games are made or experienced. We have seen generation after generation of promises and gimmicks that end up fizzling out or just falling flat.

The most we can hope for is higher fidelity, faster frame rates, and faster loading. Both boxes will deliver that.

See I was with you for the first half, but it's completely disenguous to suggest that SSDs becoming the norm won't be a paradigm shift for the industry. You lost me (and others) there. But carry on.

 

[splattered]

See I was with you for the first half, but it's completely disenguous to suggest that SSDs becoming the norm won't be a paradigm shift for the industry. You lost me (and others) there. But carry on.

The PC space will have to catch up to consoles SSD-wise so it will probably be a few years before we even see any sort of major paradigm shift there... faster loading at first. Eventually some first party games will start to show other benefits but come on, don't expect this sort of thing out of the gate.

 

[Mr Moose]

Source?
Nothing in this article or the video interviews I saw lead me to believe it's one of the other

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.x...10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/amp/

For Dirt 5, the power of Series X means that the game looks incredible at 60fps – you've seen it, it looks fantastic – but we're also able to offer amazingly smooth, responsive gameplay at 120fps while still looking gorgeous.

From the article.

 

[Games Dean]

The PC space will have to catch up to consoles SSD-wise so it will probably be a few years before we even see any sort of major paradigm shift there... faster loading at first. Eventually some first party games will start to show other benefits but come on, don't expect this sort of thing out of the gate.

But that's not what you said. You never said anything about "right out of the gate" in your original post. Of course it will take a few years to really become the norm but it will happen. And before the end of next gen too.