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[SlimySnake]

WRONG! (with respect )

Asset streaming in modern games is very important.

Take one example, like the Frostbite Engine use in Battlefront II. The engine is largely designed around streaming in assets as you move throughout the world.

Many game engines this generation are designed around streaming in assets, and more so as time goes on. For one, it helps hide loading times after the initial load, and allows the streaming in of objects and their textual assets as you move through the world.

This generation, most assets used in games were considered to be at the "medium" preset on PC. Part of the reason for that, was lack of GPU power, but a major part of that, was streaming speed, but more so, amount of memory.

The PS5 architecture is designed in such a way that the amount of memory is less critical, because assets can be streamed in "on the fly".

The GPU power is at the 2080 level, so with streaming, and this level of GPU power, games should be at a level of "Ultra" or higher.

Yes higher!

Why, because the streaming bandwidth is at a much higher level than most PCs. The bandwidth from the SSD to memory on the PS5 is at a fixed constant, and in the PC world, game developers have to take into account low bandwidth streaming sources also, which may very well hamper the amount of assets they want to stream in.

theoretically sure. trust me i was singing the same tune before the reveal. but i dont see this in action and sony doesnt seem to be advertising it either. i mean how do you know that the assets shown in the ps5 trailers were of higher quality than they wouldve been without the ssd? sony is advertising minor things like haptic feedback and adaptive triggers, and yet fails to mention the one thing that will make their console more attractive?

lets see what MS does next month. and then we can compare asset quality. right now, we dont have even sony advertising this and are sticking to loading only.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Kerlurk]

i mean how do you know that the assets shown in the ps5 trailers were of higher quality than they wouldve been without the ssd?

That's a good question, and we will have to wait, but I think the Unreal demo showed it, and that Tim Sweeney mentioned that it was an important factor, even embarrassing Linus Sebastian of Linus Tech Tips over the issue.

lets see what MS does next month. and then we can compare asset quality. right now, we dont have even sony advertising this and are sticking to loading only.

Mark Cerny talked about it.

I was not denying the X1S capabilities in this regard.

It maybe less of a bandwidth difference (which is around double, but not a magnitude difference), but abstraction software layers issue, that may show a difference, but I'm not sure. Digital foundry to the rescue?

I admire what MS has created in the X1S, and like the PS5, is in a stronger place than PC's in this regard (asset streaming).

 

[jose4gg]

I'm still worried about memory, but... at least this is better than what it was reported before...

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Why can't I help think Tom went fishing here with this article for more info about the CPU and got a bite?

I'm still worried about memory, but... at least this is better than what it was reported before...

This almost certainly indicates 10GB total RAM. I would go further and say it would be the same 14Gbps too so ~280GB/s bandwidth.

 

[sircaw]

I absolutely hate the vast majority of Xbox marketing. I will not hear a bad word against their GamePass Twitter account though. It's genius.

Yer that's good, i like that one.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm still worried about memory, but... at least this is better than what it was reported before...

i think the ram might hold back the xsx more than the gpu. you gotta hope that MS ran some tests and know what they are doing but seeing as how they arent making next gen games, how can they really not what the memory footprint for a next gen game would be in 2 years, let alone 3-5 years down the line?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

If Series S is cheap enough and ends up dominating Series X in sales it will make for an interesting situation in the Xbox landscape.
What Microsoft needs is more market share first and foremost. It doesn't matter if they do that by having "the most powerful console" or something really cheap and accessible. A game sold for Series S makes them as much money as a game sold for Series X.
If Series S massively outsells Series X then I wonder if it could become the lead Xbox platform for development, with Series X getting anything from resolution and frame-rate bumps, to more in-depth upgrades as we saw with XOX and PS4 Pro.
That could be why so many of these Series X Optimised interviews keep trying to drive home resolution and frame-rate above all else. It really is an interesting strategy.

It will all depend on the price. Cheap shifts units.

 

[geordiemp]

It made no sense to downclock the CPU for sure

 

[Vae_Victis]

For them to be selling PS5 at loss would mean they would have to sell it below 450 dollars. Which sounds great if you ask me. 399 for bluray version and 349 for driveless version sounds perfect but even 449/399 would sound great. But I am expecting 499/399 or 499/449.

They will be selling at a loss because you have to considers the costs of transportation, tariffs, taxes and retail share on top of building cost. The fact a PS5 can leave the factory in China after Sony spent ~ $450 doesn't mean there are no additional costs before it actually gets to your home.

We're reaching PSP marketing territory here, people.

 

[Lordani66]

They will be selling at a loss because you have to considers the costs of transportation, tariffs, taxes and retail share on top of building cost. The fact a PS5 can leave the factory in China after Sony spent ~ $450 doesn't mean there are no additional costs before it actually gets to your home.




We're reaching PSP marketing territory here, people.

Hmmm makes sense. Ps4 cost was 380 and they sold it for 399 so with ps5 being 450 in cost we should expect 499 final price or if sony is generous 449-479

 

[Gamerguy84]

P

If Series S is cheap enough and ends up dominating Series X in sales it will make for an interesting situation in the Xbox landscape.
What Microsoft needs is more market share first and foremost. It doesn't matter if they do that by having "the most powerful console" or something really cheap and accessible. A game sold for Series S makes them as much money as a game sold for Series X.
If Series S massively outsells Series X then I wonder if it could become the lead Xbox platform for development, with Series X getting anything from resolution and frame-rate bumps, to more in-depth upgrades as we saw with XOX and PS4 Pro.
That could be why so many of these Series X Optimised interviews keep trying to drive home resolution and frame-rate above all else. It really is an interesting strategy.

It will all depend on the price. Cheap shifts units.

This is the same Ive been thinking. I called this console their trojan horse a while back and I believe that. Its the most cost effective way into peoples homes and gains msrketshare.

And depending on how sales are going I can see Sony dropping price as needed on the DE version as they can be more flexible with that since they stand to profit more in the long run.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

 

[DrDamn]

i think the ram might hold back the xsx more than the gpu. you gotta hope that MS ran some tests and know what they are doing but seeing as how they arent making next gen games, how can they really not what the memory footprint for a next gen game would be in 2 years, let alone 3-5 years down the line?

I can see this working for downscaling from XSX ok. They will have been able to work all that out. What I don't yet understand it's how backward compatibility will work on the XSS. It doesn't have enough memory for X1X compatibility, so will it just do X1 vanilla? Or can it do something very clever?

 

[Tqaulity]

Bore! This is what I've been saying. Every interview or talking point for Xbox Series X is about 4K/60fps. Same old games, just higher resolution and higher framerates. Come on! I mean I'm not saying that those things won't enhance the experience but there has got to be more to next gen than just higher res and faster framerates right?! We've been doing that for decades....CPU and GPUs always get faster. What's new there?

This is the time to talk up your box and hype people on how your new device will change the world. Get people excited about new experiences. Yet, every interview from Xbox team members and third party alike, it's the same ole talk.

Is that really it for Series X? Is that all "next gen" has to offer on Xbox? Higher resolution, reduced latency, faster framerates and load times on the same games we've been playing for more than a decade now?

The other thing to point here is again I'm not saying 4K/60+ aren't nice things to have. But you have to admit it's somewhat ironic that right before launching your "next gen" system the only thing you could point to that will further the gaming experience are things that enthusiasts have been enjoying for years now! Either on their high end PC or "enhanced" consoles including the one where you initially threw "true 4K' down our throats 3 years ago! In other words. 4K/60 is not a "new" thing at all even for console gamers.

So your best selling point for your next gen 2020 console is the give us more of what you promised 3 years ago in your current gen conolse? Pardon me if I'm not jumping with excitement at that prospect.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

Sony has already taken all digital sales away from retailers but they have always been able to sell Physical copies .

The PS5 DE is BIG and will take up alot of retail space , do you think that the retailers will still carry the DE knowing that they can not sell any games with it ? Will they make enough to justify the floor space it will take up ?

 

[FeiRR]

Nothing new really. It was explained by Mark Cerny in his presentation. Balancing for the power draw is more precise and responsive so much better than responding to thermals.

 

[Clandsiota]

so, exactly the same game, same NPC count etc. Just Lower res.
Basically 1080p and low budget? Go with XSS. 4K tv? Go with XSX

 

[FeiRR]

Sony has already taken all digital sales away from retailers but they have always been able to sell Physical copies .

The PS5 DE is BIG and will take up alot of retail space , do you think that the retailers will still carry the DE knowing that they can not sell any games with it ? Will they make enough to justify the floor space it will take up ?

Do they still sell TVs, fridges and cookers that have no attach rate at all?

 

[Clandsiota]

If Series S is cheap enough and ends up dominating Series X in sales it will make for an interesting situation in the Xbox landscape.
What Microsoft needs is more market share first and foremost. It doesn't matter if they do that by having "the most powerful console" or something really cheap and accessible. A game sold for Series S makes them as much money as a game sold for Series X.
If Series S massively outsells Series X then I wonder if it could become the lead Xbox platform for development, with Series X getting anything from resolution and frame-rate bumps, to more in-depth upgrades as we saw with XOX and PS4 Pro.
That could be why so many of these Series X Optimised interviews keep trying to drive home resolution and frame-rate above all else. It really is an interesting strategy.

It will all depend on the price. Cheap shifts units.

By this logic the switch will be the lead platform.

 

[scie]

I don't think so. If you sign a contract and don't pay, they'll execute the debt, it's not risky for them.

What I meant, the proposed model may be something new for the US market, I don't know how loans work there. Here I can go to a shop and take any electronic equipment and pay in installments. I can choose for how long, if I want any upfront payment or not, the choices are wide. Interest rates are also much lower than your average CC rate or sometimes are 0% (which of course isn't really true but the cost is hidden inside the price and if you pay cash, you get nothing). This is exactly how I'm going to pay for my PS5 without any problem or big hit on my budget.
[...]

And often 0% interest is not the best deal. You can see offers like this: hardware 2000€, if you buy in cash: But often you'll get a discount of like 150€, 0% interest rate when you pay with monthly for 12 month. This is basically a negativ interest rate!

Also buying keys on cdkeys, g2a, etc is why cheaper than buyinfg them from Microsoft or Sony. And for Windows 10 and Office you have to buy oem keys. You can get Windows 10 Pro for around 20€ which at least is totally legal in my country.

 

[FeiRR]

Also buying keys on cdkeys, g2a, etc is why cheaper than buyinfg them from Microsoft or Sony. And for Windows 10 and Office you have to buy oem keys. You can get Windows 10 Pro for around 20€ which at least is totally legal in my country.

Of course it is not. Enjoy an account ban if that key you bought cheap is cancelled because of a chargeback from a stolen CC.

 

[scie]

Of course it is not. Enjoy an account ban if that key you bought cheap is cancelled because of a chargeback from a stolen CC.

On G2A I am with you. CDkeys no problems for years and regarding Windows 10 and Office OEM Keys, It is legal in Germany. In 2000 our federal court of justice ruled that the purchase and distribution and use of oem and dsp software is completly legal without associated hardware. Az I ZR 244/97: https://dejure.org/dienste/vernetzu...BGH&Datum=06.07.2000&Aktenzeichen=I ZR 244/97

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Of course it is not. Enjoy an account ban if that key you bought cheap is cancelled because of a chargeback from a stolen CC.

That's why it's important to go for resellers with 1000's of sales and 99 to 100% positive reviews . Buying games like this for ages and never had a single bad experience. There's a way to do it right and legit

 

[FeiRR]

That's why it's important to go for resellers with 1000's of sales and 99 to 100% positive reviews . Buying games like this for ages and never had a single bad experience. There's a way to do it right and legit

You mean console games or PC games?

 

[scie]

You mean console games or PC games?

For me I can say both. I buy the for years on key sellers. Not a single problem yet.

Edit: but I also buy in official stores like steam, ms store or sony store. It just depends where I can get the software cheapest.

 

[Delpij]

Lockhart is a blessing in disguise. I'm expecting nearly all games to have a 60 fps performance mode thanks to it.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

You mean console games or PC games?

PC ofc, I meant through G2A to be clear

 

[Neo Blaster]

The other thing to point here is again I'm not saying 4K/60+ aren't nice things to have. But you have to admit it's somewhat ironic that right before launching your "next gen" system the only thing you could point to that will further the gaming experience are things that enthusiasts have been enjoying for years now! Either on their high end PC or "enhanced" consoles including the one where you initially threw "true 4K' down our throats 3 years ago! In other words. 4K/60 is not a "new" thing at all even for console gamers.

So your best selling point for your next gen 2020 console is the give us more of what you promised 3 years ago in your current gen conolse? Pardon me if I'm not jumping with excitement at that prospect.

But wait, this time they're promising the true 'true 4k'!!!

 

[Neo Blaster]

Sony has already taken all digital sales away from retailers but they have always been able to sell Physical copies .

The PS5 DE is BIG and will take up alot of retail space , do you think that the retailers will still carry the DE knowing that they can not sell any games with it ? Will they make enough to justify the floor space it will take up ?

It depends on how much they make selling PS Store credit gift cards. Besides, there's still the regular version using discs. Gamepass does much more harm to retailers with their 'day and date' releases.

 

[Corndog]

When asking "which one gets downclocked" it seems to be asked as if the same fundamental issue of where you spend your heat/power budget doesn't also apply to fixed clocks on a shared APU when running some nonsensical code loop that is designed to do nothing but run the chip hard and in a way they're not designed to do.

This paragraph seems to conflict with what developers told digital foundry.

Time stamp 4:30

 

[Brudda26]

This paragraph seems to conflict with what developers told digital foundry.

Time stamp 4:30

You conveniently leave out the part where it's due to cross generation games being built on the current gen jagaur cores so there is more CPU power than needed. They are making sure the GPU has enough power needed and using the not needed power from the CPU. Games built on the jagaur core will require far less CPU power to hit 60fps on next gen etc why run a CPU at max when it's not needed. It only uses the power it needs for job at hand. A job on the CPU may require less power than its max so that unneeded power can then be feed to the GPU if its needed there. Different jobs even at the same clock speeds can require more power than other jobs. Games built on jagaur will require far less power for jobs than what the ZEN2 cores can provide. So that excess power can feed to the GPU to feed more power intensive jobs.

This is being done by the fixed profiles the devs are using on the devkits. The retail PS5 via smart shift will do this on the fly providing a more optimised system.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[bitbydeath]

Paging Nikana not a good sign for you. Will make that avatar for you soon.

 

[Corndog]

You conveniently leave out the part where it's due to cross generation games being built on the current gen jagaur cores so there is more CPU power than needed. They are making sure the GPU has enough power needed and using the not needed power from the CPU. Games built on the jagaur core will require far less CPU power to hit 60fps on next gen etc why run a CPU at max when it's not needed. It only uses the power it needs for job at hand. A job on the CPU may require less power than its max so that unneeded power can then be feed to the GPU if its needed there. Different jobs even at the same clock speeds can require more power than other jobs. Games built on jagaur will require far less power for jobs than what the ZEN2 cores can provide. So that excess power can feed to the GPU to feed more power intensive jobs.

This is being done by the fixed profiles the devs are using on the devkits. The retail PS5 via smart shift will do this on the fly providing a more optimised system.

You may want to read some of my earlier responses where I say the exact same thing.

Edit: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next...-analysis-leaks-thread.1480978/post-258965829

 

[Nikana]

Paging Nikana not a good sign for you. Will make that avatar for you soon.

Thats a good sign for me... Not you.

 

[bitbydeath]

Thats a good sign for me... Not you.

No it isn't, you bet on the exact spec being right and now he's already backtracking on what was there before.

 

[Corndog]

Late July.

 

[Nikana]

No it isn't, you bet on the exact spec being right and now he's already backtracking on what was there before.

Then should be an easy bet for you.

Lockhart is is indeed real and has 10GB of RAM

Vs

Rumor not true.

1 month.

The bet was Lockhart being real and has 10 GB of RAM vs the rumor of Lockhart not being real.

 

[bitbydeath]

The bet was Lockhart being real and has 10 GB of RAM vs the rumor of Lockhart not being real.

'Rumour not true.'
Obviously that includes specs as that was our whole argument. C'mon don't try back out now.

 

[Nikana]

'Rumour not true.'
Obviously that includes specs as that was our whole argument. C'mon don't try back out now.

Oh FFS. You were adamant Lockhart isnt real. Do I need to find those quotes too?

Don't try to move the goal posts because you made a boneheaded bet after the fact

 

[T-Cake]

Late July.

Bum. July is going to really drag, I can feel it. Mind you there is Ubisoft's event on the 12th which should have some Valhalla gameplay amongst other things.

 

[bitbydeath]

Oh FFS. You were adamant Lockhart isnt real. Do I need to find those quotes too?

Don't try to move the goal posts because you made a boneheaded bet after the fact

The whole thing began at RAM (different specs) you know this. You agreed if the rumour was wrong then you lose. I just pointed out that rumour may be wrong.

Stop trying to spin this and stick to what you agreed.

 

[Nikana]

The whole thing began at RAM (different specs) you know this. You agreed if the rumour was wrong then you lose. I just pointed out that rumour may be wrong.

Stop trying to spin this and stick to what you agreed.

Right so Lockhart is real (which you doubtt). And it has 10gb of ram.(which you said it's 7.5)

That's the bet. It's right there.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

By this logic the switch will be the lead platform.

Switch isn't an Xbox platform. I specified lead Xbox, not of all extant platforms.

For PlayStation, the original PS4 is still the lead platform for development. Pro gets graphical embellishments at best with more resourced studios, and often nothing at all with smaller ones.

 

[bitbydeath]

Right so Lockhart is real (which you doubtt). And it has 10gb of ram.(which you said it's 7.5)

That's the bet. It's right there.

The bet and by your own admission was that the rumour had to be correct.

If these differences are true then the rumour is no longer correct.

 

[Metroiddarks]

I was out just to avoid TLoU 2 spoilers and was worth it, in the technical aspect that game is superb.

That remind how the people thinks that delta between both XS doesn't matter because is 1080p vs 4k but the thing is ... you actually believe that
all the games in consoles will be 4k I mean come on , in the moment you see games running to 1800p in XSX because they prioritize other things what do you
think will be the resolution in the base console.

So the devs will have two options maintain the 1800p in XSX and have a blurry game in XSS or reduce the quality in XSX so the base console so the XSX reach a resolution
close to 1080p. And also any dev team is affected when you introduce more close platforms especially when one of them is medium range even now, just imagine in 4 years.

In case you think but the reconstructions techniques, yes those are good but even DLSS have problems with artifacts and also that tendency to show details in blurry parts is not
necessary good as you use that blur in way to focus the attention of your player in some parts.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

This paragraph seems to conflict with what developers told digital foundry.

Time stamp 4:30

Keep listening and it seems to be explained why. If you have something that is barely using the CPU at all (engine designed around Jaguar) then if there's a manual profile on the developer kit that allows you to manually allocate power ratios then they could just keep it pegged in favour of the GPU.
And this is second hand information relayed by the same Leadbetter that couldn't quite wrap his head around what Cerny was saying about how the system works in the Eurogamer interview he conducted.
And you don't "choose to downclock" but have the variable frequency system choose to do so on the component you specify if it needs to due to what is being run, which again is unlikely with low CPU utilisation.

Once again, Watts consumed/heat generated is based on frequency AND the instructions being run. Not just the frequency. A CPU or GPU can idle at a high clock all day without consuming many Watts/generating much heat.

 

[Nikana]

The bet and by your own admission was that the rumour had to be correct.

If these differences are true then the rumour is no longer correct.

The bet is right there, this is OT. If you want to discuss it further it's best to do it in a PM or in meta.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Watch Timdog and Blue Nugroho retweet this in the worst interpretation known to man.