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[SlimySnake]

I see Sleepdoctor has taken over Donbesca's role as our resident LOL giver sociopath.

We have lost another one to console wars. Take care of your mental health people. And use your words.

As Phil Spencer once said, "The Pen is Mightier than a LOL". It's why he penned fancy terms like Velocity Architecture, Smart Delivery, Super Sampler Feedback and DirectML... features that are already on the PS5.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

And this is what MS said about ML. It's basically a software layer in Directx similar to their SFS system given a cool name to make it seem like something only XSX can do when you can literally do this with current gen GPUs. they are using shader cores in the RDNA 2.0 to power machine learning.




Oh look at that standard shader cores. Who woulda thunk it. Oh and rapid packed math. You know what console had that? PS4 Pro. PS4 pro had Machine learning confirmed!

I am getting so sick of this obfuscation coming from the MS PR team. They are giving everything a fancy name, and sending their fanboys into a frenzy. Then those fanboys start digging and harassing PS5 engineers on twitters (not you Gavin) and we end up in this situation where Sony fans freak out because we are like wtf how can MS have ML and sony cant? Turns out no one fucking has ML hardware like tensor cores.

this is all so fucking stupid.

Thanks for clarifying that! it doesn't surprise me all this confusion was because of another catchy name feature.

And Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart fast transitions loaded entire sections much more detailed than Astrobot's within 2 seconds, so either that wasn't a loading screen or the game was running on Geoff's PS4 just to demonstrate the DualSense controller.

The funny thing is the game literally said "Geoff's Demo" in it. But yeah, I guess we won't know if this was running on a devkit, a PC, through streaming or maybe on a PS4.

 

[Alex Scott]

"Its based on RDNA 2, but it has more features, and it seems to me, one less"

That's interesting. One less being VRS? More features tying in with Red Gaming Tech saying that as well.

Anyway, really looking forward to MS on the 23rd, another step in finding out what these consoles are really about.

Also looking forward to it.I wish it was a little later though.

 

[Alex Scott]

whats the source of this? it seems the multiplayer.it article is basing this off of some private tweets. will need access to those tweets. how reliable is multiplayer.it?

Some of his other PM that were also leaked online. I guess.

 

[reksveks]

So this confirms two things. One it is not pure RDNA 2.0 and two, it might have rdna 3.0 features like Red Gaming tech said.

I really dont know if thats good news for either side. Xbox fans will rejoice because it might not be fill rdna 2.0, but sony fans will be happy about extra features.

I think we really need to wait a few more days to see what's going on. If MS comes out with more games looking like hellblade 2 with actual gameplay then maybe you can start worrying, and xbox fans can start to celebrate. But then again, the PS5 games that were shown were native 4k 30 fps with ray tracing. they can easily go down to 1440p or 4kcb and start producing games that look far better and on par with hellblade 2.

What I am trying to say is that all this back and forth is really for naught.

then you got remember that both companies might be targeting different frame rates from their first party, comparing single frames of graphics is useful to a set of users but not an objective measurement of hardware. I would argue that if anyone wanted to make a pointless comparison between the consoles, the best software to look at would be 3rd party multi platform games.

 

[reksveks]

I see Sleepdoctor has taken over Donbesca's role as our resident LOL giver sociopath.

We have lost another one to console wars. Take care of your mental health people. And use your words.

As Phil Spencer once said, "The Pen is Mightier than a LOL". It's why he penned fancy terms like Velocity Architecture, Smart Delivery, Super Sampler Feedback and DirectML... features that are already on the PS5.

I think you might be underplaying directml, I assume the sdr to hdr conversion is being done locally via directml and Microsoft claim with no cost to performance. I would like Sony to clarify what API they have built out for ML unless vulkan/OpenGL has one already that we can assume that they are using. Whether upscaling via directml is going to be any good, no one knows yet, we have only seen one image of it.

 

[TBiddy]

Gavin Stevens is not a honest person. He has clear biases. Both AMD and Sony has clearly stated that PS5 is based on RDNA 2.,but he for some reason he doesn't want to believe them and went out of his way to post a PM message from a tired person who was up all night and misspoke.
That liar won't post this on his twitter though.

Cool story, new-account-totally-not-an-alt.

 

[Brudda26]

So there we have it, its RDNA2 with one less feature from AMD own RDMA2 roadmap but it has multiple other features not found in RDNA2.

 

[Redlight]

Gavin Stevens is not a honest person. He has clear biases. Both AMD and Sony has clearly stated that PS5 is based on RDNA 2.,but he for some reason he doesn't want to believe them and went out of his way to post a PM message from a tired person who was up all night and misspoke.
That liar won't post this on his twitter though.

That' a disgraceful take. Gavin Stevens was sent a message from Leonardi that explicitly said that the PS5 was 'between RDNA 1 and 2'. He simply took it at face value. How is that a lie?

 

[lepermessiah]

Best to always get further clarification given the statements made by Cerny, etc. It's proper prudence. It's a unique feature set, mostly RDNA 2. That's it.

 

[Delpij]

Why are you still discussing about RDNA?

 

[FranXico]

Best to always get further clarification given the statements made by Cerny, etc. It's proper prudence. It's a unique feature set, mostly RDNA 2. That's it.

I don't care about facts. Only authority!

 

[FeiRR]

One thing I've got from all the ps5 stuff is Sony is doing as much as they can to take all unnecessary workloads away from the GPU and CPU etc and dedicating all of that to fixed function hardware so they can make much more effiecent use of the GPU and CPU. I dont think some people realise how big a deal this is.

Devs are fully aware of that and that's most important.

If you're confident, you show your guns. MS wouldn't be all guns blazing if they weren't confident in their product.

That's American way of thinking. Sony isn't an American company.

Also... "There is no need to try and belittle the others product if you are confident in what you have"

You might wanna tell that to Sony, buddy.

I've never seen any Sony official talking about XSX. I agree there's not much to talk about. Spencer and his pals babble about competition all the time, changing their message every few weeks.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but it appears the Leonardi guy clarified his statement.
from https://multiplayer.it/notizie/ps5-architettura-rdna2-via-mezzo-rdna1-2-conferma-ingegnere-sony.html

turns out the simplest explanation was the correct one, "RDNA 2" isnt a technical term, neither XsX or PS5 are "Pure" RDNA 2, and the term is used to tell people it's just the latest set of features they have at the moment. We can go home now

As I had written a few pages back, nothing new if you listened carefully to Cerny's presentation. The revelation was only in little minds of warriors who can't comprehend things above their mental capacity.

Well that clears things up. I guess the only thing that still needs more info is: if the PS5's GPU has no ML built in but has been alluded to support it before, what's Sony doing to achieve that? Any ideas?

You can have a separate ML chip. Many phone manufacturers went this way. I don't think ML features have to be embedded in APU because they're not bandwidth heavy. Having a separate chip also makes upgrades easier. ML is an incredibly dynamic technology with bright future.

 

[XO_o]

 

[Panajev2001a]

Devs are fully aware of that and that's most important.


That's American way of thinking. Sony isn't an American company.


I've never seen any Sony official talking about XSX. I agree there's not much to talk about. Spencer and his pals babble about competition all the time, changing their message every few weeks.


As I had written a few pages back, nothing new if you listened carefully to Cerny's presentation. The revelation was only in little minds of warriors who can't comprehend things above their mental capacity.


You can have a separate ML chip. Many phone manufacturers went this way. I don't think ML features have to be embedded in APU because they're not bandwidth heavy. Having a separate chip also makes upgrades easier. ML is an incredibly dynamic technology with bright future.

thanks for the post and the quotes!


Interesting revised statement too though. So to believe it has no ML (well, that is an over simplification... it has no INT8/INT4 support at higher rate) that is in RDNA2 upcoming family of GPU's, you need to accept that it has some features beyond that too.

Also, that most of the other features people worry about like VRS and mesh shaders are fine ( thicc_girls_are_teh_best I would think this is sensible to argue, but then the guy was hounded before and is trying to correct the aim after being hounded for quotes again).

 

[TBiddy]

A guy using the term "xbots" in his tweets is a totally reliable source.

 

[reksveks]

The only thing I would add is that based off current numbers bcpack is supposedly more efficient and 2) this is also good news for xsx (in one way) as oodle is also going to be supported on xsx so you will get that compression on xsx and pc as well. (Bad news if you can't get 3rd party devs to support bcpack)

 

[Panajev2001a]

A guy using the term "xbots" in his tweets is a totally reliable source.

Does not matter the guy's attitude or not. He pulled the numbers and math from the blogpost of one of the RAD Game Tools engineers behind Oodle Texture.

I would say that Oodle Texture is likely factored in the 8-9 GB/s equivalent bandwidth though (I could be wrong though, that could be just Kraken on its own) IMHO, but not BC7Prep which has some shader cost to decode the texture at runtime, but has even better compression ratio.

 

[Brudda26]

A guy using the term "xbots" in his tweets is a totally reliable source.

Everything that guy said is legitimate information that came out a few weeks back by radgametools and its developers.

 

[reksveks]

Does not matter the guy's attitude or not. He pulled the numbers and math from the blogpost of one of the RAD Game Tools engineers behind Oodle Texture.

I would say that Oodle Texture is likely factored in the 8-9 GB/s equivalent bandwidth though (I could be wrong though, that could be just Kraken on its own) IMHO, but not BC7Prep which has some shader cost to decode the texture at runtime, but has even better compression ratio.

I think it was included as well but we will find out in time.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The only thing I would add is that based off current numbers bcpack is supposedly more efficient and 2) this is also good news for xsx (in one way) as oodle is also going to be supported on xsx so you will get that compression on xsx and pc as well. (Bad news if you can't get 3rd party devs to support bcpack)

BCPack is about the same as BC7Prep + Kraken is it not? Anyways, I wonder if BCPack stacks on top of Oodle Texture pre-processing or if that would need to take the zlib encoder/decoder path?

I think you would see huh BCPack adoption unless it were to have a high runtime cost.

 

[Brudda26]

The only thing I would add is that based off current numbers bcpack is supposedly more efficient and 2) this is also good news for xsx (in one way) as oodle is also going to be supported on xsx so you will get that compression on xsx and pc as well. (Bad news if you can't get 3rd party devs to support bcpack)

Whilst yes it can use oodle it's a option and not in addition. Oodle and BCpack essentially do the same thing. So it will be Zlib + BCpack or Zlib + oodle.

 

[Brudda26]

I think it was included as well but we will find out in time.

One of the developers of oodle texture somewhat said that numbers sony gave out was without oodle.

 

[TBiddy]

Everything that guy said is legitimate information that came out a few weeks back by radgametools and its developers.

99% sure the compression is included in the published figures. Why wouldn't it be?

 

[Dolomite]

I mean, it's also using features that will be in RDNA3 so does that push it back into RDNA 2?
RDNA 2.2?
RDNA2 Rev 3?

RDNA 365/2 dayZ

Sure. Knock yourself out

 

[FranXico]

Gavin Stevens is not a honest person. He has clear biases. Both AMD and Sony has clearly stated that PS5 is based on RDNA 2.,but he for some reason he doesn't want to believe them and went out of his way to post a PM message from a tired person who was up all night and misspoke.
That liar won't post this on his twitter though.

Yes, he has biases, like everybody else in this thread. Just leave him alone.

He got innacurate information, just like many so-called insiders often do, just let it go. That has been clarified, so that's enough.

Don't you think he has enough to deal with over that, nevermind the threats and harrassment he got from mentally ill fanatics?

The 1.5 speculation can be put to rest, so let's just move on.

 

[FranXico]

99% sure the compression is included in the published figures. Why wouldn't it be?

Official figures up until now were based on generic Kraken compression only. Kraken combined with Oodle is new.

 

[TBiddy]

Official figures up until now were based on generic Kraken compression only. Kraken combined with Oodle is new.

Source?

 

[reksveks]

I can't remember the exact details from when I was looking into it but

Oodle Texture RDO Examples

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.

www.radgametools.com

Based off that, I think that oodle + kraken was between 25-50% compression and then based off Microsoft employees tweets they said 50-75% (right?) including lossless compression.

happy to be corrected though.

 

[FeiRR]

thanks for the post and the quotes!


Interesting revised statement too though. So to believe it has no ML (well, that is an over simplification... it has no INT8/INT4 support at higher rate) that is in RDNA2 upcoming family of GPU's, you need to accept that it has some features beyond that too.

Also, that most of the other features people worry about like VRS and mesh shaders are fine ( thicc_girls_are_teh_best I would think this is sensible to argue, but then the guy was hounded before and is trying to correct the aim after being hounded for quotes again).

I asked an AMD programmer a few months back about PS5 APU features. He couldn't give me answers as to what features it has but he confirmed Cerny's words that it's heavily customised and might extend beyond RDNA2. I wrote about it in this thread, too. I'm going to see the guy in person this weekend so I'll try to probe if he knows something about ML. Of course if he can tell me anything and if I can pass the message without breaking his NDA. I wouldn't pass on private knowledge which could endanger someone's wellbeing.

 

[FranXico]

Source?

Oodle Texture Compression

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.

www.radgametools.com

 

[Bill O'Rights]

Folks, here's the deal - the majority of the reports are from this thread and we're not getting caught in the middle. You are adults, work this out between yourselves and stop crying when someone says something you don't like about your console. The options are reply ban about 25 people from the thread in which there will no doubt be tears and claims of innocence as per usual, or lock the thread and contemplate what purpose it serves now.


So, the thread will be locked for a day while you mull this over. When it open, those reply bans will start getting issued if anyone wants to carry on the 'warring'. The chances are you know if you're risking a reply ban or not. This is meant to be a speculation and analysis thread, and in fact all it is, is an insult and argument thread. Also, let this be clear, moving these arguments and squabbles into other threads will earn you the standard console warrior ban as seen on the ban pages.


Re-opened - take note of above please

 

[sircaw]

Thank you, tank you

 

[YoodlePro]

Omg, there's so much tension now! I don't know where to put first step!

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

2 more days until Xbox showcase

 

[ZywyPL]

Thank you, tank you

I would be careful with the words when replying to a mod ;p

 

[mili2110]

Who would switch to XSX from PS4 if its the same price as PS5 (with disk drive), free multiplayer (no gold required) and a nice more diverse 1st party line-up? I would be very tempted if I didnt already have a nice gaming PC.

 

[Imtjnotu]

WE BACK BOYS

 

[YoodlePro]

Who would switch to XSX from PS4 if its the same price as PS5 (with disk drive), free multiplayer (no gold required) and a nice more diverse 1st party line-up? I would be very tempted if I didnt already have a nice gaming PC.

Personally it would be borderline impossible, I've never enjoyed the asymmetric layout of the sticks and would have to stick with symmetric. And worst case scenarios, I will play the games on PC with the DualSense hooked up as a controller. Best of both worlds?

 

[sircaw]

Folks, here's the deal - the majority of the reports are from this thread and we're not getting caught in the middle. You are adults, work this out between yourselves and stop crying when someone says something you don't like about your console. The options are reply ban about 25 people from the thread in which there will no doubt be tears and claims of innocence as per usual, or lock the thread and contemplate what purpose it serves now.


So, the thread will be locked for a day while you mull this over. When it open, those reply bans will start getting issued if anyone wants to carry on the 'warring'. The chances are you know if you're risking a reply ban or not. This is meant to be a speculation and analysis thread, and in fact all it is, is an insult and argument thread. Also, let this be clear, moving these arguments and squabbles into other threads will earn you the standard console warrior ban as seen on the ban pages.


Re-opened - take note of above please

Right, since this thread was shut down i think its time to set some ground rules with the mod team.

The moderation on the particular form has been diabolical, Shambolic at the best of times.

Shutting down this particular thread is not on.

I understand that the mod team all are Switch owners and seeing all this discussion of xbox fans and sony fans rejoicing at the future prospects of 4k and 60 fps is annoying to you, i understand your frustration when you read all the positive talk of next gen consoles, while you sit there gaming at 540 and 20 fps, but you will not break our collected voices.

You will not keep us apart, you will not break us.
Remember its you, who chose to be a member of team furry not us!

No more of your console Waring bullshit. You have been warned.

Signed Xbox and Sony fans, The real consoles.

Ps Pikachu fucking sucks.

Pss My self and sleep doctor are running a discord group, only triggered people allowed in.

Have a nice day everyone.
Fish rule.

 

[DrDamn]

Who would switch to XSX from PS4 if its the same price as PS5 (with disk drive), free multiplayer (no gold required) and a nice more diverse 1st party line-up? I would be very tempted if I didnt already have a nice gaming PC.

I'm going for both. Sony have held me for the whole of the current generation, MS lost me mid gen but I came back late last year.

Price of the box itself never really matters so much. Played out over the 6 or so years you have it for it's not so big a consideration. Services as a whole and games are more of a consideration. That's where MS have made big strides the last couple of years and I'm looking forward to that continuing on Thursday. I don't see it as one or the other though. If a console has interesting and fun games on it and it offers something different to other options, I'll buy it.

 

[NewChoppa]

We're back!

The temp lock was kinda a good thing. I was like 30 pages behind discovering revelation after revelation lmao

 

[Nikana]

Right, since this thread was shut down i think its time to set some ground rules with the mod team.

The moderation on the particular form has been diabolical, Shambolic at the best of times.

Shutting down this particular thread is not on.

I understand that the mod team all are Switch owners and seeing all this discussion of xbox fans and sony fans rejoicing at the future prospects of 4k and 60 fps is annoying to you, i understand your frustration when you read all the positive talk of next gen consoles, while you sit there gaming at 540 and 20 fps, but you will not break our collected voices.

You will not keep us apart, you will not break us.
Remember its you, who chose to be a member of team furry not us!

No more of your console Waring bullshit. You have been warned.

Signed Xbox and Sony fans, The real consoles.

Ps Pikachu fucking sucks.

Pss My self and sleep doctor are running a discord group, only triggered people allowed in.

Have a nice day everyone.
Fish rule.

Paper Mario > Ghosts of Tsushima

 

[sonomamashine]

Right, since this thread was shut down i think its time to set some ground rules with the mod team.

The moderation on the particular form has been diabolical, Shambolic at the best of times.

Shutting down this particular thread is not on.

I understand that the mod team all are Switch owners and seeing all this discussion of xbox fans and sony fans rejoicing at the future prospects of 4k and 60 fps is annoying to you, i understand your frustration when you read all the positive talk of next gen consoles, while you sit there gaming at 540 and 20 fps, but you will not break our collected voices.

You will not keep us apart, you will not break us.
Remember its you, who chose to be a member of team furry not us!

No more of your console Waring bullshit. You have been warned.

Sign Xbox and Sony fans, The real consoles.

Ps Pikachu fucking sucks.

I highlited TLDR version in blue on his quote :
seeing this discussion is annoying, Remember its you, No more of your console Waring bullshit. You have been warned. Pikachu

Shutting the thread was a breeze of air.
Anyway let's not derail it, get this thread back on track.

 

[sircaw]

Paper Mario > Ghosts of Tsushima

don't you dare.

 

[SportsFan581]

Pss My self and sleep doctor are running a discord group, only triggered people allowed in.

Just triggered? Mental and triggered okay? What's the deats?

 

[Finem Orientis]

 

[Nickolaidas]

Who would switch to XSX from PS4 if its the same price as PS5 (with disk drive), free multiplayer (no gold required) and a nice more diverse 1st party line-up? I would be very tempted if I didnt already have a nice gaming PC.

The only way for me to switch (though I will probably own both), is to have all my favourite IPs become XSX exclusives. Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat, D&D, Horizon, Elder Scrolls, Dragonball, Spider-Man, Doom, and a couple more. If those become extinct from Sony, it's quite likely for me to abandon the system.

 

[sircaw]

Just triggered? Mental and triggered okay? What's the deats?

Out of most of the xbox fans i actually think, you and i could find common ground on a lot of things.

ITS a START

 

[Finem Orientis]