Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Apollo Helios said:
Apart from Matt's comment from Twitter, that what GE is much more broader and powerful than just having VRS, it is somewhat a mystery to anybody at this point. I mean in the presentation, prim shaders were only just a small portion of the brain that is supposed to be representing Geometry Engine. And even that prim shaders part are making a big difference this time around (like they were supposed to in the past but didn't bc it was not easy to implement and depended on the game devs -> they were either lazy or optimizing elsewhere for bigger gains than making an effort in prim shaders).

This time around prim shaders are culling the blocked portions of the objects or objects outside of screen space at the very beginning of rendering without game developer interaction or coding specifically for it. -> That makes the world of difference.

And what I found is that it is the basis of Mesh Shading in DX12, but GE doesn't stop there and invents on top of it. Sony First started (GNM and GNMX) giving whole objects numbers and then partial objects getting tagged by the same number in a sequence for rendering purposes, then it became the basis of Mesh Shading in DX 12.

These changes are definitely dev fueled and let me get you on a journey through dev memory lane -> Do anyone here remember Mantle API? How it was hyped and why? Then it died and Vulkan born. Well I can say that even then I was following these. Devs mostly wanted low level access to hardware, they wanted how instructions worked exposing their workings in the hardware so that they can code and optimize better, since they could on a Sony console. X360 and XBOne are basically DirectX shells so they are just closed system (as in no component will change so that the game code can be optimized well) but not low level access console systems. PS3 Cell, but most precisely SPUs were so amazing for the devs that they could actually slack on harder to do coding and with its brute power it would manage, and when you code for it in low access then you could make magic. Now PS4 didn't have Cell's SPUs but it had large number of ACEs (8 of them vs 2 for PCs and Xbox) that could help them make CUs work in parallel so much better that GPU CUs could be utilized more in parallel (not close to 100% utilization of SPUs ever, maybe half at most). That HW secret sauce was coming from the collective minds at Sony headed by Cerny. You didn't have to utilize ACEs (or maybe utilize some and not all) but when you do work them all we get TLOU 2 and GoT at the end of generation.




Cort at the time was part of Sony ICE team, look at his Twitter 'about me' portion and you will see a direct correlation between his ICE input
https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,156605/and what I am pointing at, also he then became one of the guys architecting Vulkan next.


Playstation 4 Vs Xbox One GPU | Understanding the Differences – RedGamingTech

www.redgamingtech.com www.redgamingtech.com

[and btw as a side, isn't this our own yewles1 yewles1 ;)


Now imagine that they have not only Geometry Engine on their GPU, but have also brought back some of the Cell SPU magic in the form of Tempest inside the same GPU. Well you don't have to imagine more, it is in the PS5 already :messenger_grinning_smiling: the arrow has been LOOSEd in the air, the target doesn't know it has been hit just yet :messenger_winking:

One of the tidbits I could find was how foveated rendering was within Sony's R&D with their patents and some literal implementation on the PSVR. Now there is research for foveated VRS too from Sony (I think someone here mentioned this recently too) and I don't think that is just for PSVR 2. Sony is great in giving options to devs, and devs is an umbrella term encompassing from lazy ones to incompetent ones and then to master ones. When devs put those special hw to good use you get good games. This was true for PS4 and it will be true for PS5, but what is more, Cerny also made sure to put some pieces of hw in there that is making the jobs of devs easier without them knowing or handling it, the correct working version of prim shaders is just one of them. Let me just say positional audio on the PSVR was really easy to develop into the games and how Uncharted 4, Uncharted LL, HZD, Days Gone, RDR2 (and some other games I missed too) and lately TLOU 2 and GoT had it and quality wise it was at least on par with Atmos for Headphones (which somehow everyone missed this detail). This is non customized CUs helping in audio only possible with the parallelization help of ACEs, now PS5 will feature customized CU just for audio, but the work on it has started much earlier with PS4 and VR. You see Cerny master plan is not just for a single console, it is for the entire ecosystem feeding tech into each other to the next iteration.

Another Sony giving options to devs who would use, is custom CheckerBoard rendering HW present only in PS4 Pros. HZD uses it and looks amazing in terms of sharpness and resolution. For example, Spider Man didn't even use that HW (became a more basic solution at that point) or even any CheckerBoarding at all, but used a technique called Temporal Injection (that specific application is patented to Insomniac and I believe one of the reasons of Sony acquisition). Temporal Injection also became the get go solution for doubling the frame rates of ambitious PSVR games later on.


blog.playstation.com

Insomniac Interview: The Tech Behind Marvel’s Spider-Man

Learn how @InsomniacGames taps into the power of PS4 and PS4 Pro to create a massive world that looks Amazing. #SpiderManPS4
blog.playstation.com blog.playstation.com

Now it doesn't take a genius to guess that natural next step for PS5 is to implement a customized HW that does said Temporal Injection in the alpha blending or post processing stage of the graphics pipeline at the GPU, that is if you choose to incorporate that, again most likely it will be an option.

With all of these custom HW in mind, I think PS5 die is going to be huge, in fact it can be as big as XSX. We will finally see in the teardown when that finally happens ffs.

Edit: the structure was forked so edited that
Click to expand...

That Avatar is 10 years old now, I aged badly...
 
I can see Spider-Man MM having an updated New York city for Miles story, we already know it's set on winter. However, I just can't see Insomniac remastering the same New York from the first game too. Unless it's really easy to upgrade from normal NY to winter NY. Insane.
 
kourooshkabir said:
:messenger_grinning_sweat::messenger_tears_of_joy:

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Man, that must be Ian Robshaw from Watch Dogs Legion dem. He only lived a short life in the game, may he rest in peace. :lollipop_crying:

zw48bmmuks331.png
 
zaitsu said:
GOT some has low res textures that hurts my eyes, but beside that Im overall impressed with artstyle. I think that TLOU2 and GOT if they get right treatment can overshadow anything that will came up this year.
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I will play it again on "Lethal" difficulty. Hard was decent, especially in duels, but wasn't hard enough.



New difficulty level: Lethal

  • – Enemy weapons are more deadly, but Jin's katana is also more deadly
  • – Enemies are more aggressive in combat
  • – Enemies detect you faster
  • – Tighter Parry and Dodge windows

Can't wait to play it again on PS5! Don't know, might play it again on PS4 anyway as there is nothing worthy to play.
 
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geordiemp said:
Hey guys, found this little snippet

The leaked MS documents that apparently mentioned the lockart, also meantioned performance issues with the dev kits due to the hardware decompression / SSD according to B3D mod.


xwOyrDj.png

www.theverge.com

Leaked Microsoft document hints at second next-gen Xbox

Microsoft has still not publicly acknowledged its Lockhart plans
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com

Something is not quite right when a few months before launch you still have to use a PC to show Xbox games
Click to expand...

Quite happy to see all that FUD backfiring.
 
Gamernyc78 said:
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Troubling signals here.

Remaster would indicate no enhancement for ps4 backwards compatibility.

So let's at least hope the PS4 version gets a PS5 patch matching the bundle. If not, this sets a horrible precedence and we're back to PS3 to PS4 style paid remasters. Hoping we're past this.

Ideally BC enhanced PS4 titles in meaningful ways. And for more impressive results, PS4 games can receive PS5 patches.
 
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Shmunter said:
Troubling signals here.

Remaster would indicate no enhancement for ps4 backwards compatibility.

So let's at least hope the PS4 version gets a PS5 patch matching the bundle. If not, this sets a horrible precedence.
Click to expand...

Thts the first thing tht came to my mind actually, let's see how it plays out, I'm curious.
 
Moridianae said:
I'd like to share something regarding the coming consoles.

My father never was into gaming, but he encouraged the hobby, as outside of practicing medicine his passion was music, which he loved dearly.

He loved gaming music, often taking my Final Fantasy soundtracks to listen to on his equipment. It was the only way he could appreciate the hobby, as the tech advanced quicker than he adapted to it(he was stupidly good at Tetris, though)

I was cleaning up in his music room not too long ago(think like a game room, but audio).

I found an old jar with a little money in it, buried amongst audio hookups, with a note scribbled that said "for my son's game system".

It was probably for something years upon years ago, that he had forgotten...who knows.

But it made me happy yet sad to see, with him gone. So many parents of my generation discouraged the hobby and some still do.

I'm glad he encouraged it and maybe it was a sign he's always around, depending on what you believe. I'll use it towards my PS5, hopefully, at the same location we went to get my PS2.
Click to expand...

I'm touched, brother. I really hope the best for you and all the ones you love, you had a great dad and he will always be proud of you indeed.♥
 
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Shmunter said:
Troubling signals here.

Remaster would indicate no enhancement for ps4 backwards compatibility.

So let's at least hope the PS4 version gets a PS5 patch matching the bundle. If not, this sets a horrible precedence and we're back to PS3 to PS4 style paid remasters. Hoping we're past this.

Ideally BC enhances PS4 titles in meaningful ways. And for more impressive results, PS4 games can receive PS5 patches.
Click to expand...
I don't think a remaster means no PS4 BC patch. But I also wouldn't expect much out of those patches; likely only changes to whatever settings an engine supports (maybe framerate unlocks, resolution bumps, etc.)
 
IntentionalPun said:
I don't think a remaster means no PS4 BC patch. But I also wouldn't expect much out of those patches; likely only changes to whatever settings an engine supports (maybe framerate unlocks, resolution bumps, etc.)
Click to expand...
As long as running a ps4 game on PS5 means we get a PS5 patch if there is a PS5 version, we're golden. If they want us to pay for a PS5 enhanced version, I'll be having colourful words on here.

Edit : also hiding a PS5 upgrade of a PS4 game behind some kind of Game Of the Year or Complete edition would also be cynical and transparent. If the work has been done to enhance a game, do the right thing and roll out the patch no different to a Pro patch.
 
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Our boy Colt made a video counting how much gameplay was shown in the past 2 Xbox showcases and in the PS5 event ("accidentally" leaving the GT7 demo out). The funny thing is, he won't even mention we haven't seen anything running on XSX at those events. Oh man, this is going to be the new narrative "Xbox has shown more gameplay"
 
Darklor01 said:
what does this mean for those of us who need a translator?
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Well basically RDO help to compress in a better way your data, this helps in basically two things:

-Increment the the quantity of data in your disk which make your games smaller or can has better assets in the same space
-Increment the compress bandwidth you have in the machine, we have to remember this limit also for the decompressor capability of each machine

I update the post I forgotten to add the compression ratio after RDO, sorry for that.

For example Imagine you have 100 MB of data without any compression, then you only apply the compression of Kraken as the PS5 will use, this reduce
the same amount of data to around 57.47 MB which is huge but if you use RDO before the compression you increment your ratio,so now instead to have
57.47 MB now you have 31.94 MB which is an incredible improvement.

I use the ratios using its first chunk of data with lambda of 40 which is far of be a lossless compression but could be use it
in some cases.
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
I will play it again on "Lethal" difficulty. Hard was decent, especially in duels, but wasn't hard enough.



New difficulty level: Lethal

  • – Enemy weapons are more deadly, but Jin's katana is also more deadly
  • – Enemies are more aggressive in combat
  • – Enemies detect you faster
  • – Tighter Parry and Dodge windows

Can't wait to play it again on PS5! Don't know, might play it again on PS4 anyway as there is nothing worthy to play.
Click to expand...


Just as I got to act 2 ,the update kicked in. Switched from hard to lethal. You get killed in 2 cuts. 2 arrows sometimes. I play with no charms so don't know if that changes. Ai constantly chase you and corner you. I haven't seen Ai wait around anymore outside the bow guys. Ai look to pin & circle you much more. Also the fighting is tighter much more smoother when blocking and parrying different AI. No more stance position whilst not facing AI bug. The Ronin have killed me a lot so lethal is working.

Taking my time with Ghost. Theres no good games after this. But very effective update.Lethal is solid.
 
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Wraith Phantom said:
Just as I got to act 2 ,the update kicked in. Switched from hard to lethal. You get killed in 2 cuts. 2 arrows sometimes. I play with no charms so don't know if that changes. Ai constantly chase you and corner you. I haven't seen Ai wait around anymore outside the bow guys. Ai look to pin & circle you much more. Also the fighting is tighter much more smoother when blocking and carrying different AI. No more stance position whilst not facing AI bug. The Ronin have killed me a lot so lethal is working.

Taking my time with Ghost. Theres no good games after this. But very effective update.
Click to expand...

If they announce new game plus, might jump back in. No game worth having this gen after that, Cyberpunk will be bought with PS5 for me and I'm really not having high expectations of it, so far it didn't "wow" me, which is good so I get surprised of how good it is when I play it, or don't get disappointed due to massive hype.
 
Sinthor said:
To be fair, I thought Halo looked fun and it even looks good in motion. I get that they are being limited by the legacy support as well, perhaps...although that wasn't supposed to be a thing. In any case, it's clear they have some work to do and things like having RT as a patch later...it all indicates they're having some issues. I'm sure it will be a fun game when it comes out and as others have pointed out...doing an open world 4k@60fps game is NOT easy.

Bottom line, I just can't buy Alex's "explanation" here of why people THINK it looks odd. Just...whatever.
Click to expand...

Man, if you enjoyed Fallout and Outer Worlds gameplay and graphics, then you are allowed to say that "looked good".
 
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