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[Dibils2k]

Stop that nonsense.
Go read some books. By the time you grow up. Maybe you will be clever.

and you keep valuing your self-worth based on what corporations do

 

[zaitsu]

If casuals didn't care about 4k, then they don't care about 1080p, 900p, 720p, whatever. If X1 will go as low as $99, then they will stay where they are if they already have one, and new budget customers will grab the $99 dollar machine instead of the $249 one. Remember, same games.

Marketing will have one hell of a job on 'the hot new thing' to make people forget about price and that they all run the same games.

if X1 will be 99USD guess what kids gonna find under the christmas tree to play Halo .

 

[GRIEVEZ]

Woot?

Dont have a favorable opinion of them when discussing consoles. So im not expecting much on this one tbh...

Wtf.. Doesnt Xbox have the marketing rights for Elden Ring??? That cant be right... can it?

Unrelated: cant quote anyone specific right now. But I have a hunch Lockheart will be Xbox's ""saving grace"". Could be wrong, but its just a hunch.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

if X1 will be 99USD guess what kids gonna find under the christmas tree to play Halo .

Second hand Android phone to play via xCloud?

 

[DrDamn]

Unrelated: cant quote anyone specific right now. But I have a hunch Lockheart will be Xbox's ""saving grace"". Could be wrong, but its just a hunch.

I think you could be right, but what are the implications if it is? What if it is a *lot* more popular than XSX? Do they still try to compete at the top end of the console space or do they look more towards the budget/middle space in conjunction with GamePass?

 

[Wraith Phantom]

Why would you think that?
And Then why would you type it on purpose? Xbox is only supporting current gen for the next yr+

Xcloud is upgrading it's server to SXS blades in about 6 months. Quite literally everyone will benefit from an SSD this gen. Even casuals via streaming

You can believe in the streaming thing if you want. But when there are storms & shitty internet connections I wouldn't bank on it. Xbox are making games for Xbox & PC. That is their sales pitch & targets. Can you confirm that every gaming PC user has an SSD?? If not then everyone will not benefit from SSD. When the PC space has different mixes of hardware. We know that devs target lowest denominator. I don't see Phil statements saying SSD built games are compulsory. With him knowing a lot of his target market will still use HDD. I dont see him excluding them for lower sales. It can take anywhere from 2-10 years of SSd to be standard in PC space. It is what it is brah.

 

[Neo Blaster]

if X1 will be 99USD guess what kids gonna find under the christmas tree to play Halo .

I can see this happening:

Soccer mom goes to a store to buy a console to little Johnny:

SM: 'Please, I want an Xbox'.

Salesman: 'Yes, madam, we have these three models, Xbox One S, Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X'.

SM: 'I'm so confused, what's the difference?'.

Salesman: 'One will run games better than the other'.

SM: 'Ok, besides that, which one has more games?'.

Salesman: 'Oh, they all have the same games'.

SM: 'Hmm, ok, then just give me the cheaper one'.

 

[GRIEVEZ]

I think you could be right, but what are the implications if it is? What if it is a *lot* more popular than XSX? Do they still try to compete at the top end of the console space or do they look more towards the budget/middle space in conjunction with GamePass?

Price and uncertain economic turmoil.

I think they'll stop making "high end" Sku's and focus on streaming boxes. Its inline with gamepass/xcloud strategy. I could be wrong, but its a "hunch".

Edit: Also they outright said Sony isnt their competitor. Google and Amazon are.

I just see this generation for Xbox as a crossover generation to streaming/services tbh. Its not that bad of a hedge.

 

[zaitsu]

Serious performance woes on my high-end rig. My best testing PC sports an i7-8700K CPU (overclocked to 4.8GHz), an Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti GPU Founder's Edition (overclocked using EVGA X1 software), 32GB DDR4-3000 RAM, and an NVME solid-state hard drive. This rig has a lot of headroom to spare in order to get most 3D games to hit a mostly steady 60fps refresh at resolutions nearing 4K (2160p).

Indeed, the pre-release build of HZD hits 60fps on my best machine... but this requires a considerable downgrade to somewhere around 60 percent of 4K, which can be toggled in an in-game menu.

via https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...pc-not-the-optimized-port-we-were-hoping-for/

3 years more, 1000$ GPU and still not achiving PCMR 4K 60FPS... I feel sorry for those number guys out there [*]

 

[Felessan]

That Sony engineer that said the PS5 didn't have ML.

Doesn't have a specific tailored hardware to optimize execution of AI/ML most probably.
Every GPU that has compute functionality has ML, by the nature of code behind (it favors SIMD very much). One of the first things CUDA was applied to back in 2007 was AI/ML.

 

[GRIEVEZ]

Serious performance woes on my high-end rig. My best testing PC sports an i7-8700K CPU (overclocked to 4.8GHz), an Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti GPU Founder's Edition (overclocked using EVGA X1 software), 32GB DDR4-3000 RAM, and an NVME solid-state hard drive. This rig has a lot of headroom to spare in order to get most 3D games to hit a mostly steady 60fps refresh at resolutions nearing 4K (2160p).

Indeed, the pre-release build of HZD hits 60fps on my best machine... but this requires a considerable downgrade to somewhere around 60 percent of 4K, which can be toggled in an in-game menu.

via https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...pc-not-the-optimized-port-we-were-hoping-for/

3 years more, 1000$ GPU and still not achiving PCMR 4K 60FPS... I feel sorry for those number guys out there [*]

Wasnt there supposed to be a performance day1 patch?

Edit: But yeah, if anything. This makes the PS4 console appear very capable, if a 2080TI doesnt hit 4K60... and a 7 year old console can hit 4K30 :X

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

Hawkeye is free too... Spiderman would have been the same, with or without exclusivity

I'm not sure about that, the interview given by the Crystal Dynamics' guy seems to point that this is related to ownership of rights and some agreement between Sony and Marvel.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I'm not sure about that, the interview given by the Crystal Dynamics' guy seems to point that this is related to ownership of rights and some agreement between Sony and Marvel.

CD put it in pretty clear terms that Sony has Spiderman game rights.

 

[T-Cake]

Has Microsoft said anything about streaming non-game pass games that you might own via xCloud? I'm sure that must be their ultimate aim like Stadia does. If I could play games like Splinter Cell, Dragon Age II, Red Dead Redemption via xCloud then that totally eliminates the need for Xbox hardware for my needs.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Has Microsoft said anything about streaming non-game pass games that you might own via xCloud? I'm sure that must be their ultimate aim like Stadia does. If I could play games like Splinter Cell, Dragon Age II, Red Dead Redemption via xCloud then that totally eliminates the need for Xbox hardware for my needs.

I believe there might be a licensing problem there. There was with Geforce Now.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

Serious performance woes on my high-end rig. My best testing PC sports an i7-8700K CPU (overclocked to 4.8GHz), an Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti GPU Founder's Edition (overclocked using EVGA X1 software), 32GB DDR4-3000 RAM, and an NVME solid-state hard drive. This rig has a lot of headroom to spare in order to get most 3D games to hit a mostly steady 60fps refresh at resolutions nearing 4K (2160p).

Indeed, the pre-release build of HZD hits 60fps on my best machine... but this requires a considerable downgrade to somewhere around 60 percent of 4K, which can be toggled in an in-game menu.

via https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...pc-not-the-optimized-port-we-were-hoping-for/

3 years more, 1000$ GPU and still not achiving PCMR 4K 60FPS... I feel sorry for those number guys out there [*]

Sorry for them. F them. Cant be Master Race when your begging for games.And jump on old gen games like a crackhead on gear. These PC begging race. Really believe in numbers.These guys are suppose to be tech savy. But don't believe in Optimisation, They literally think games just magically get better on their machines. Like its drag & drop & viola.

Lets laugh at these guys. They have been getting finessed by Jenson & co. They have been trying to justify their £1000+ spends for years. Lets sit back & laugh.

Has Microsoft said anything about streaming non-game pass games that you might own via xCloud? I'm sure that must be their ultimate aim like Stadia does. If I could play games like Splinter Cell, Dragon Age II, Red Dead Redemption via xCloud then that totally eliminates the need for Xbox hardware for my needs.

I'm sure I read/listened to its whatever you have in your library.

 

[FunkMiller]

Wasnt there supposed to be a performance day1 patch?

Edit: But yeah, if anything. This makes the PS4 console appear very capable, if a 2080TI doesnt hit 4K60... and a 7 year old console can hit 4K30 :X

The PS4 is such a well designed piece of kit. Very much hoping Cerny's carried the same kind of design philosophies over to Ps5 (with better cooling).

 

[zaitsu]

The PS4 is such a well designed piece of kit. Very much hoping Cerny's carried the same kind of design philosophies over to Ps5 (with better cooling).

I think PS4 needed to be low budget console after PS3 launch fiasco. With PS5 i think Sony gave Cerny much more space.

 

[LED Guy?]

Oh man I have been playing a lot of TLOU 2 and I just can't believe how they got this game running on PS4 like that (I have a PS4 Pro by the way), but the amounts of details and just how the animations work together are just top-tier, it's unbelievable!

I just hope Microsoft can AT LEAST have stuff that rival TLOU 2 or RDR 2 or any Sony exclusives for that matter on their 12 TFLOPS beast! Halo Infinite looks like a joke in comparison, sadly.

 

[Dodkrake]

S

Is baked in good or bad?

ounds like a good thing. Baked in would mean Hardware.

 

[HawarMiran]

Oh man I have been playing a lot of TLOU 2 and I just can't believe how they got this game running on PS4 like that (I have a PS4 Pro by the way), but the amounts of details and just how the animations work together are just top-tier, it's unbelievable!

I just hope Microsoft can AT LEAST have stuff that rival TLOU 2 or RDR 2 or any Sony exclusives for that matter on their 12 TFLOPS beast! Halo Infinite looks like a joke in comparison, sadly.

The game is goddamn sexy. I just wish they would already give us some extra stuff for it.... Wtf is so hard about a horde mode?

 

[Shmunter]

Oh man I have been playing a lot of TLOU 2 and I just can't believe how they got this game running on PS4 like that (I have a PS4 Pro by the way), but the amounts of details and just how the animations work together are just top-tier, it's unbelievable!

I just hope Microsoft can AT LEAST have stuff that rival TLOU 2 or RDR 2 or any Sony exclusives for that matter on their 12 TFLOPS beast! Halo Infinite looks like a joke in comparison, sadly.

Agreed, often it's like real-time cgi playing it. Remarkable

 

[Angel of BOOM!]

TLOU2 is a staggering achievement even without considering the hardware it's running on.

 

[Neo Blaster]

That'd be better. Still undercut Sonys price by removing the controller + blu-ray without needing to sabotage their own product specs.

Still thinking a controller-less SKU is the worst idea ever, you're basically selling a product that doesn't work per se.

 

[FunkMiller]

Still thinking a controller-less SKU is the worst idea ever, you're basically selling a product that doesn't work per se.

If they were to actually put that out, they'd basically be stating that they have no interest in anyone other than existing Xbox owners. This is not a good way to run a profitable business.

 

[zaitsu]

Still thinking a controller-less SKU is the worst idea ever, you're basically selling a product that doesn't work per se.

I'm thinking about all that times when I bought something thinking that batteries would be in set. Without controller it's even worse. One Christmas i get from my father PSP without any game. 2 months later I saved for one game xD

 

[DrDamn]

Price and uncertain economic turmoil.

I think they'll stop making "high end" Sku's and focus on streaming boxes. Its inline with gamepass/xcloud strategy. I could be wrong, but its a "hunch".

Agreed, but I think it does need to take off somewhat. A high end SKU was need now to keep the market share it has. Moving forward it will depend on how big a part of their market it represents. I still think they are well placed to carve out a good slice of the action this generation, with a decent strategy that allows for options of approach and adapting to the market.

Edit: Also they outright said Sony isnt their competitor. Google and Amazon are.

I think there was more than a little bit of smoke and mirrors here. For now Sony are their biggest competitor. Where they want to be, maybe not so much. As I said they have options - cloud is part of the strategy but it's not fully dependent on it like Google. Be interesting to see what and when Amazon do something. How much they learn from Google's missteps.

I just see this generation for Xbox as a crossover generation to streaming/services tbh. Its not that bad of a hedge.

Agree. I can see where they want to be, and they have some good foundations in place to get there. Long way to go though.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Even if this was all true, MS wouldn't necessarily need to leave the hardware market if sales were flat. As long as you aren't losing a ton of money on each hardware revision, keeping the console around as an option for those that want it isn't that big of a stretch. Even the R&D costs would be covered by the streaming service (you've got to have a target platform of some kind for devs to optimize against). Assuming, of course, that gaming as a whole remains profitable for MS.

I think it's great that the paths of Sony and MS appear to have diverged (at least from the outside). That's a lot more interesting than everyone doing the same thing.

The way I see it, Xbox today is a 'Gamepass delivery system'. So far the only devices available are their consoles and PC, not enough to get the amount of subscribers they need by what we've seen for the last 3 years, but that's what they have for the moment. I don't see them leaving the hardware market until Gamepass can spread successfully to a plethora of devices just like Netflix did.

 

[yewles1]

Yes but not, maybe I don't explain as I want.

I say is between 2070 and 2070 super because that is the same DF say time ago (not because I don't like in general what Alex do means I don't think they have real connections)
I also think is more than that but I cannot guess without have any evidence.

I tried to make opinions not based in extrapolate things because is too easy to get wrong and was pointing a scenario where PS5 basically doesn't have any special thing,
then use that as argument because when your are in debate one the best ways to denying another person's argument is using a scenario where things go wrong and still
showing that even in that scenario the other person's is wrong.

Regarding your points:

1)We suppose RDNA 2 will have an improvement in IPC but how nobody really knows how much, the optimizations will occurs yes will do but again you need to extrapolate
things to say a quantity about how much will improve, guess as base for an argument is fail in the fallacy of ad ignorantiam, yes I agree with you but I cannot use as fallacy
my argument.

2) There is not a point to throwing numbers especially as you say in console where exists low level optimizations and in a early phase of dev is just pointless.

3)Agree but I don't have real proves the same thing until AMD doesn't reveal more info of RDNA 2 I just cannot.

4)You basically repeat this point

5)I want the jump in IPC of RDNA 2 be big because:

a)Nvidia needs competition

b) I love the console hardware.

But AMD usually tends to oversell expectatives then come back with something not so good, so let's wait and see.

6) 10% is not be conservative and again you are guessing a lot

7) You cannot say a number of possible in an argument where you talk about a possible bottleneck, is just too complex to reduce it in that way, you should has
access to a dev kit and break your NDA to say a number

8) Even when I think PS5 is more capable in the real world than a 2070 super that doesn't mean I will say a comparable GPU which I think is equiparble based in
huge amount extrapolations, I am not moore's law is dead.

And yes you throw many specific numbers to get to the point where a PS5 is a 2080 super. I can agree the real performance of PS5 is closer to a 2080 to a 2070
but I don't want to make mental gymnastics to end saying a fallacy, so basically I agree with you my 2070 is too conservative but I prefer say that than do the same
as you.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Though not an official confirmation, BGs hinted at an IPC increase WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back almost 1000 pages.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

If they were to actually put that out, they'd basically be stating that they have no interest in anyone other than existing Xbox owners. This is not a good way to run a profitable business.

Not true on profit part. Works for Nintendo & they flourish. Xbox never worked it out.If they marketed to their core. They would do better imo. But they opted for console war marketing. And its cause them more harm than good.

Ask yourself why does Nintendo not get wrecked by PS?? They stay the fuck out of PS way and do their own thing.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Yeah I want fierce competition too. Its healthy for us gamers if companies are on their toes. But its not like the competition isnt there because of change in focus for MS. They are still competing for money from gamers' pockets.

If MS GaaS model is successful, Sony will follow that model. Us hardcore gamers may not like that but if the market trends that way, companies will chase it.







Well, we have to first know what GaaS really means. From Wiki article (Link):



If we go by this definition, AAA games and GaaS model can overlap. Single Player can be GaaS as well. By this definition, Halo Infinite is GaaS. MP is F2P and SP is fractured story. They will keep adding onto Halo Infinite for a decade. The name of the game is not going away for long time. Grounded is not finished, and it remains to be seen whether by launch they will only have one section of the map available to play. Then, they keep unlocking other sections of the map in the years to come; or if its finished game by launch.

I can't speak for other games because we haven't properly seen them yet. Flight Sim is a classical Triple-A game thats complete from launch(guessing here, hoping there is no re-occurring revenue model).

Again, GamePass is GaaS. Now, the problem with hardcore gamers accepting GaaS seems to be everywhere. Speaking for myself, the whole fractured experience that GaaS brings is offputting. I want finished games Day 1. I dont want to keep coming back to the same art style and play years down the line. Still playing Halo Infinite in 2030 ? Thats not appealing to me.

What I fear is games coming for Gamepass Day 1 will aim for the budget Gamepass allows. So, Gamepass may look lucrative in the short-term, but long term the games will morph into Gamepass' budget - which will be mostly shovelware except for some diamonds. Like we see in Netflix.

Looks like the three companies are finally coming to a situation where each do their own thing:

Nintendo: handheld portability and family games

Sony: big AAA experiences to play in front of a TV

MS: platform agnosticism and games as a service.

And when they do their own thing, they don't compete with each other. I'm a Sony fan, but I've got a Switch to my kid and play on it on the go sometimes. And I must say if Xcloud performance is satisfactory, I can see myself signing Gamepass sometimes when there's a game that interests me.

 

[Redlight]

Looks like the three companies are finally coming to a situation where each do their own thing:

Nintendo: handheld portability and family games

Sony: big AAA experiences to play in front of a TV

MS: platform agnosticism and games as a service.

And when they do their own thing, they don't compete with each other. I'm a Sony fan, but I've got a Switch to my kid and play on it on the go sometimes. And I must say if Xcloud performance is satisfactory, I can see myself signing Gamepass sometimes when there's a game that interests me.

Exclusive games are relatively few, the vast bulk of AAA games are third-party. If Series X turns out to be the best place to play those games then it certainly won't cede the 'big AAA experiences to play in front of the TV' market.

 

[Mr Moose]

Second hand Android phone to play via xCloud?

Mobile gaming?

 

[Dibils2k]

Oh man I have been playing a lot of TLOU 2 and I just can't believe how they got this game running on PS4 like that (I have a PS4 Pro by the way), but the amounts of details and just how the animations work together are just top-tier, it's unbelievable!

I just hope Microsoft can AT LEAST have stuff that rival TLOU 2 or RDR 2 or any Sony exclusives for that matter on their 12 TFLOPS beast! Halo Infinite looks like a joke in comparison, sadly.

its because most shadows and light are baked

its sacrifice being man hours, but we know ND are willing to have their employees work 20 hour days to get it done

 

[AveragePhoenix]

Oh, this is open again. Great.

Already off to a great start, too.

 

[sircaw]

Oh, this is open again. Great.

Already off to a great start, too.

We know your feeling in regards to this thread, try not to ruin it for the others here thx

 

[AveragePhoenix]

We know your feeling in regards to this thread, try not to ruin it for the others here thx

Yeah, why would I? I'm just saying it's great that it's open again. It's not like it was closed for no reason either.

 

[sircaw]

Yeah, why would I? I'm just saying it's great that it's open again. It's not like it was closed for no reason either.

This. The Next Gen thread was a circus, I'm glad it got closed (albeit temporarily).

That was one of your quotes, so just saying.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Exclusive games are relatively few, the vast bulk of AAA games are third-party. If Series X turns out to be the best place to play those games then it certainly won't cede the 'big AAA experiences to play in front of the TV' market.

With a difference smaller than Pro/1X? Not happening, pal.

 

[AveragePhoenix]

This. The Next Gen thread was a circus, I'm glad it got closed (albeit temporarily).

That was one of your quotes, so just saying.

Yeah, I know what I said, buddy, I meant it too. Still, why would I come here and "ruin the fun" for all of you? For all intents and purposes, go on, have a blast.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Here we go! Sony State of Play on August 7th:

It's the same, in Japan it will be on August 7th.

 

[saintjules]

 

[Neo Blaster]

i seen so many youtube videos people crying about ds4 not working on ps5, i cant remember if this ever been thing in sony console history.

the outrage is fuckin sad.

It's all part of the inverted narrative MS have been doing, suddenly exclusives are bad, generations are bad, controllers with innovative functions are bad...

 

[LED Guy?]

its because most shadows and light are baked

its sacrifice being man hours, but we know ND are willing to have their employees work 20 hour days to get it done

Well, yeah and that's why Naughty Dog & Rockstar Games are considered top-tier.

 

[zaitsu]

It's all part of the inverted narrative MS have been doing, suddenly exclusives are bad, generations are bad, controllers with innovative functions are bad...

exactly xD MS shills are funny, maybe they dont want XSX at all. XOX is fine for another 3 years with those cross gens.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Wasnt there supposed to be a performance day1 patch?

Edit: But yeah, if anything. This makes the PS4 console appear very capable, if a 2080TI doesnt hit 4K60... and a 7 year old console can hit 4K30 :X

That sounds like the PS4 Pro, which launched in November of 2016, so like four years ago.

 

[Red_Driver85]

I don't know what to say. 13GB+7GB=20GB on ultra in the 1080p? GTX1070, which is many times more powerful than the PS4 GPU and does not pull 60 fps? OMG!

 

[SaucyJack]

Exclusive games are relatively few, the vast bulk of AAA games are third-party. If Series X turns out to be the best place to play those games then it certainly won't cede the 'big AAA experiences to play in front of the TV' market.

Depends on how you define "the best place to play" doesn't it? A handful of pixels and a couple of frames, or where your friends play?

Gonna say that the best place to play, for most people is going to come down to friends and quality of life features rather than tiny differences in performance on multi platform games that the vast majority are just not even going to be aware of.

 

[Md Ray]

I don't know what to say. 13GB+7GB=20GB on ultra in the 1080p? GTX1070, which is many times more powerful than the PS4 GPU and does not pull 60 fps? OMG!

Yeah, shoddy port job by Virtuos apparently.

 

[Neo Blaster]

but no i dont think you are grasping it... sony are paying to keep it away from others, not build it

if there is no deal, spiderman still comes to Avengers

so its nothing like the examples you gave.

they are not adding value to their customers...

Let's not pretend those timed exclusives added value to Xbox customers, if MS didn't pay for that they would come to Xbox anyway. There's no pro-consumer companies, there are just companies who wants your money.