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Sinthor
Gold Member
You talking about "lead platform" type of talk? It's pretty obvious that PS5 will probably be the 'lead platform' of choice for multi-platform developers. Tools seem to be better, at least at this point, and the system overall seems easier to get a handle on. I agree, that could cause flame wars galore at this point. Frankly I'm surprised we haven't heard all that before now. Guess it's just another thing delayed by Covid-19.
Supose ps5 is faster than anticipated and all your rival do is brag about how much more powerfull it is.
There`s no point in entering dick measuring arguments before launch. You can cause a much greater impact with the surprise factor when both consoles launch.
Sony`s secrecy makes sense at this point, no matter if the ps5 is very weak or underrated.
B_Boss
Member
Rea
Member
Definitely ps5 and it make sense, even Richard and John at DF praising ps5, it won't be a good generation for xbox fans So soon. Toxic ps fanboys will flame wars even more.
saintjules
Member
Are PS5 Accessories gonna get in the hands of Customers before the preview/reviews happen? My extra Controller comes next Friday.
saintjules
Member
Lethal01
Member
So you're saying it's a joycon?
carloseduardocd
Member
Final Fantasy 16 in 2021 and only in PS5.
www.gamesradar.com
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales leads Official PlayStation Magazine's guide to PS5's launch lineup - out now
Official PlayStation Magazine issue 181 counts down to PS5 with a focus on every launch game you need to play
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
not really next-gen but it's interesting how this kinda stuff is advancing.
Lunatic_Gamer
Member
kyliethicc
Member
Can't believe Peter Jackson is selling Hobbiton to Microsoft
travisktl
Member
Just a heads up for people! I went by GameStop today to see if maybe they had some Dualsense out early like Walmart. They didn't, but the guy there did say that people who have preordered any PS5 accessories will be able to come pick them up on October 30th. That's not just the dualsense, but every accessory. My roommate preordered an extra dualsense and I ordered the Pulse 3D headphones, so I'm stoked to be able to try those out next week (minus the main features of both of course haha)!
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WhispersintheWind
Member
That's 4K with Ray Tracing Clusterfuck!
WhispersintheWind
Member
Not only Sony having debug kits out earlier and better dev kit api in devs hand longer. But a lil know secret GDK api dev kit for Xbox Series S/X also didn't have full use of Velocity Architecture until June/July updates to the API. The compression software wasn't running or working properly from what I have been told. Then Xbox Series S/X debug consoles wasn't getting to devs hands as fast as PS5 debug consoles where. Xbox's GDK was way behind.
Plus Covid didn't help anybody.
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Empire Strikes Back
Member
That's nice, maybe it's the date for previews too?
Saberus
Member
Creating a new persona, will be back Soony as IronMan II....
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kyliethicc
Member
Yeah I ordered the Pulse headset from Sony and its shipping on the 30th I think. Cool thats its coming early. I think its to help the delivery companies move the other stuff before the actual consoles ship, so they don't have everything trying to ship worldwide on the same day.
saintjules
Member
Guess I'll get go get my charging station lol. The gamestop I went to told me they weren't taking pre-orders on the headphones when I was there. Guess that would have changed by now.
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existensmaximum
Member
One of the biggest problems is the Move controllers. They're not very precise or reliable. In some games they work fine, but in too many of them, they're so-so.
Edit: Also, then not having an analogue stick is very limiting.
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schaft0620
Member
Ive been covering PSVR for a long time now, my guess is Spring 2022 or not at all.
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Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Whoa. Um, Holy Shit !
I fucking love this country and this coming from a South African living in New Zealand. It's just so fucking beautiful here.
Going on holiday in 2 weeks to the South Island. Can't wait.
This is what I'm thinking as well
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Lunatic_Gamer
Member
Goodbye, PS4? | PlayStation Girl
Sponsored by Xvideos.
Sponsored by Xvideos.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Gamers don't say anything about the ads: "Yup, we knew it. All of us at 2K knew gamers would love tv ads just like the real thing. It's all about satisfying what gamers want, and all of us at 2K are looking for you sports fans"
Gamers get pissy at forced ads: "Hmmmm, we swear we didn't mean it. Something must have went wrong with the game code when we pressed it to discs"
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onesvenus
Member
If what's being said about having the XSX in dev hands later than the PS5 and the tooling being finishes later is true, why shouldn't this be a good generation for Xbox fans?
It should be only a matter of time before devs get experienced with both the SDK and the console, shouldn't it?
ethomaz
Banned
The fact they will only fix in NBA 2K22 tells they want the ads like they are.
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Of course. We already know PS5 has the better launch lineup, but what will happen when Xbox gets caught up? The narrative and perception can change quickly.
Elog
Member
As Mark Cerny state - If it ends up in PC parts 'at the same time' as the console releases it means our collaboration has worked well.
My belief is that the stacked chip is intrinsically linked with infinity cache and hence why Sony has not been in a position to talk about it. See Videocardz AMD leak from after I wrote my post today: "We will talk more about performance and special cache built into the Big Navi later (we are still collecting information)." That would also explain the - at the surface - small memory bus in Big Navi. If you can have a huge L2 cache you do not need the same peak memory bandwidth. Having shared cache off-die also allows you to increase L0 cache per CU without blowing your main die's size. So many advantages.
Speculation...but this is what I expect and also the reason why Sony has not been able to talk about it.
MastaKiiLA
Member
I read that as future updates, not 2k22. If they're not going to fix it until the next game, then 2k21 might be a hard pass for me. Unlike PC versions, you can't hack these bits out of the console game.
Elog
Member
It is very unfortunate that MS has gone though the SDK woes they seemingly have. However, if infinity cache means off-die cache and PS5 has it, I would put the rumoured performance differences more firmly at hardware cache differences than the timing of well-functioning SDKs. Cache matters a lot
Snowdonhoffen
Member
It depends, Xbox Game Studios needs to prove themselves. Yes, they have State of Decay, they have Forza, they have Halo in the works but other games like Fable, Hellblade and whatever The Initiave is working on are the projects everybody will be keeping an eye on. The ones that can end the "Xbox has no games" narrative. Bacause let's be honest, they have a lot of games but the issue is none of those games cause the same impact as Nintendo or Sony games do.
LiquidRex
Member
The only time I've been happy to see ads in a game, are when they're those hilarious piss take spoof adverts in GTA.
MastaKiiLA
Member
GI got a good get with the MM coverage. The game looks phenomenal. Check 15:15 in the video (gif posted by
Rolla
in another thread):
The city really looks alive. The number of pedestrians occupying the sidewalks is impressive. A decent number of cars too. The reflections are quite impressive IMO. You can see that the pedestrians are reflected in the shop windows, as he swings past. The lighting is also great, as Miles flies in and out of building shadows, with self-shadowing from his limbs. I'm not seeing any pop-in. I see pedestrians filling the sidewalks at least 5 blocks into the distance. Mind you, these are street blocks, and not avenue blocks, but scale-wise, it's still excellent. For all I know, the draw distance on pedestrians might be further than that. It's not easy looping the video on my TV's YT player, at 1/4 speed. I can only jump in 10s increments.
If this is launch Insomniac, I look forward to what mid-to-late gen ND and GG have up their sleeves. That's no knock on Insomniac, as they are a terrific workforce. They produce polished games at PS launches, and are no slouches in the graphics department. I just rate ND and GG a tad bit higher as far as making my eyes widen. However, I don't think any team could be relied on to produce 2 graphical and technical showpieces in the launch window, the way Insomniac has. MM and R&C not only look amazing, but they're both great showcases for the PS5 SSD. MM showing off the more traditional use of that speed, by being able to stream in assets to provide a lush cityscape.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Xbox has smart delivery, to make sure you don't download the 4K assets, so games are smaller on the Xbox Series S.
Kusarigama
Member
Does anyone else find it odd that the PS5 console doesn't have an actual "PS5" logo engraved on the console?
DrDamn
Member
You'd expect the XSX to catch up (overtake?) as the Dev environment does. So I wouldn't expect this to last a generation. Regardless of any performance comparisons the XSX has a much better games slate than last time coming eventually too.
Agree, but the implication here is not about the advantage in a better launch line up, it's about the power advantage in the third party titles at launch. Though I expect that will even out or switch as the dev environment for XSX improves.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
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AeneaGames
Member
You may want to watch the video I linked in this post. It's very informative.
I doubt (for a number of reasons, most of which you can hear in this video from timestamp to ~3 minutes before it ends) SIE has gone through the trouble of developing a PS3 emulator. However, I do suspect some of PS5's R&D went into developing a new CELL variant to embed within the custom SSD controller as a means to also provide hardware-based compatibility with PS3.
(note: there's precedent for such an approach, as Ken Kutaragi opted to repurpose PS1's CPU by turning it into an I/O processor for PS2's external/internal devices while preserving PS1 compatibility (entries [0046], [0049] of this patent touch on it and the translated blogposts of an engineer involved with that effort go into some specifics))...
In the original SSD patent, there's a section titled 'Patent Citations (4)'. This section cites four patents, one of which is US8504736B2 for a 'File input/output scheduler' (FIOS). Patent US20090300642A1 is a version of US8504736B2 with numbered entries. Here's a handful of entries taken from it:
[0044] Some embodiments of the present invention may take advantage of a Cell processor architecture or similar processor architecture. FIG. 2 illustrates an example of cell processor 200 configured to implement a FIOS according to an embodiment of the present invention.
[0045] An SPE 206 may store in its local store instructions 207 that implement portions of FIOS program 205.
[0047] By way of example, the FIOS program 101/205 may include a media stack to facilitate interfacing with hardware such as storage device 115...
[0096] By way of example, in the cell processor system 200, an I/O request may be serviced by an SPE 206 using a sequence of instructions of the following type:
[0101] The data requested by the SPE 206 may be sent to anyplace addressable by PPE 204.
PS3's file input/output scheduler (FIOS) library for optimized disc access ran on SPUs...
and it stands to reason that the same FIOS library can be modified to facilitate optimized SSD access per entry [0047] of the FIOS patent. Turning back to the original SSD patent for a moment, the inventor of the SSD is listed as Hideyuki Saito. Interestingly, Saito worked on the CELL project and was thanked by IBM (listed under '7. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS') for his contributions which involved verifying CELL's design and implementation for IBM's QS2x family of server blades...
Using an illustration of QS20 for reference...
I imagine if you were to take the Southbridge chip on the right (throw the one on the left away along with all of its associated devices) and substitute it for a flash controller, combine the two CELLs (the computational grunt of one might not be enough) into a single chip and give it a 7nm shrink (it would be classed as 'Multi-core' according to Kutaragi's CELL roadmap), cram the newly minted 7nm 'Multi-core' CELL inside the flash controller along with the PHY, combine the two pools of DRAM into one pool, include two more flash memory chips with the one shown (the standalone flash memory) and surround the flash controller with them, then you'd wind up with a CELL-based SSD controller with a similar layout to the custom SSD controller on PS5's motherboard...
If you were to also run another set of lanes from the CELL-based SSD controller to the GPU of the APU, then you might end up with something like this...
It may seem like wishful thinking, but it's completely within the realm of possibility as Kutaragi once believed that CELL would appear in a variety of electronic devices and individual components...
"Cell will evoke the appearance of graphics LSIs or southbridge chips, something almost like a PC, and that is the kind of business we want to start. For instance, I would like to think of even a TV receiver not as a display device, but as a potential computer. In short, Cell is what lies at the core as more and more devices are being computerized." -- Ken Kutaragi
In my opinion, a CELL-based SSD controller that provides hardware compatibility with PS3's CELL seems much more straight-forward and elegant than a compromised software emulation solution delivered in piece-meal fashion. I assume SIE thinks similarly given what its EVP of hardware engineering said in 2013 when asked about the possibility of PS3 emulation on PS4 prior to its launch...
"Backwards compatibility, particularly in Japan, is something that is strongly brought frequently, so we thought long and hard about this. Realistically, to support backwards compatibility with PS3, the CELL Broadband Engine would have needed to been part of the new console. Currently, it's not possible to simulate this via software. If CELL were the only requirement, that wouldn't have been much of an issue. We would also need to support the supporting hardware indefinitely. We can freely manufacture CELL if the decision is made that it is needed. However, that's not the case with supporting hardware. There are parts which will become difficult to obtain since 7 years is already considered to be long in the IT industry…" -- Masayasu Ito
With a hardware solution SIE wouldn't have to suffer the travails of trying to get PS3 games to run on a game-by-game basis, and every PS3 game on PS Now at the time of PS5's launch could be made available for rental or purchase from the service on day one.
I presume owners of game discs would be able to play them, but only after being subjected to server authentication. The process would likely be locked behind a PS Now paywall (as you said), and possibly go something like:
- After the insertion of a game disc, PS5 requests a PS Now server to authenticate it
- Server authenticates disc and notifies the requesting PS5 of successful authentication
- PS5 unlocks internal hardware for PS3 backwards compatibility
- A choice is given to the user to play from disc (could be played so long as there's an online connection and the disc remains in the drive) or download and install (rent) a digital version (could be played offline, but would require weekly check-ins to validate the subscription) if it's available on the service.
I also presume PS3 games purchased from PS Now would be playable offline (no subscription required; might drive some owners of game discs to repurchase digital versions of them in order to avoid jumping through authentication/check-in hoops), and digital versions of PS3 games sitting on ageing PS3 consoles would be playable (no subscription required) after they've been transferred from PS3 to PS5.
If this turns out to be the case, then SIE will probably make money hand over fist off generations of legacy content in all its forms (physical/digital) whether gamers subscribe to PS Now or not.
- I don't believe emulation of PS3 on PS5 will be possible, but I do think SIE has looked to tackle backwards compatibility and high speed SSD access with a CELL-based SSD controller.
- SIE may plan to lock PS3 compatibility on PS5 behind PS Now. If so, those with PS3 game discs will have to subscribe to play them, those who purchase digital versions of PS3 games from PS Now won't have to subscribe to play them and those who transfer digital versions of PS3 games they already own to PS5 won't have to subscribe to play them.
- In this model, PS Now would be an extension of the PS Store for legacy content (pre-PS4 era), and SIE would likely get crazy paid off physical and digital versions of games spanning generations -- with or without a PS Now subscription.
Even if they added more hardware to help it's still gonna need to be emulated. The Tempest engine already behaves a lot like the SPU's as Cerny mentioned. Emulating the PowerPC parts isn't that hard. And no matter what method they choose not every game is going to work without checking.
Besides if they want to keep streaming them on PS Now they will one day have to find new ways of running the games on the servers as it's highly unlikely there are new ones being made..
So a pure software solution which can run on any device fast enough and/or an emulator using Tempest engine to help seems more likely to me.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Careers | Sucker Punch Productions
jobs.suckerpunch.com
Kusarigama
Member
I mean engraved on the console external shell, not on the main boardWell there's this, I dont know if it counts.
danielJackson
Banned
Well, in theory if console launch is flop and that leads into 1-2 years of struggling because of said time that they need to gain experience.
So, if this would lead into really bad sales of consoles, it could lead into less interest into system for devs, which leads into bad generation.
I'm not saying it does happen, just saying that shitty launch + shitty devkits/too late = doesnt help rise the odds to get good gen for gamers.
Then all the weirdness of "1st party games must work on xbox one for 2 years", "games must work on slow PC systems too", "lets do lower budget games for gamepass fillers" and so on, those dont help the gen to be good either.
Maybe it turns good. But we all saw how last 2-3 years of this gen went:
Ps4 got constant flow of great exclusives
Xbone got..? No support?
Shmunter
Member
First PSVR Bundle that comes with PS5 Adapter announced in Japan.
数量限定｢PS VR Variety Pack｣および｢PS VR "PS VR WORLDS" 特典封入版｣を10月29日より発売！
数量限定｢PlayStation®VR Variety Pack｣を10月29日(木)より発売！ PS VR、PS Camera、PS Move 2本、ソフト4本が同梱されたお得な商品です。｢PlayStation®VR […]blog.ja.playstation.com
How so, it's been reported adaptor in every ps5 box. Must cost a couple of cents at best.
onesvenus
Member
I'd say that has more to do with sales numbers between Xbox One and PS4 than any developer losing interest
Shio
Member
Neither does the PS4 Pro
Rea
Member
I didn't mean that x box won't be a good generation for fans because definitely will be great. Just that ps5 is way ahead of xbox, I was saying that the great time for xbox fans won't gonna come so soon, it need some times. Admit it, all xbox currently has, are glorified old gen games. True next gen for Xbox need a few years down the road. On the other hand, ps5 has pure next gen games like Demon souls, god fall, R&C, GT7, and so on. Coming right after launch. So, xbox fans have to bear with toxic PS fans's flame wars.
B_Boss
Member
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I mean engraved on the console external shell, not on the main board
I think they designed the thing in a way that you can just tell.
BGs
Industry Professional
Nice clouds.
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